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| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:30074 Activity:very high |
5/6 To whoever was suggesting the Branch Davidians were murdered in cold
blood without provocation, these are the names of the four ATF agents
killed when they tried to serve a search warrant:
Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Robert Williams, Steven Willis
\_ I'm one (the other?) guy who argued with ilyas. Call me "fascist".
Now, I've read some conspiracy theories out there purporting that
a) ATF agents opened fire first and b) the first 3 ATF deaths were
friendly fire, which forensics supposedly corroborates. Then c)
pissed off feds try to cover the thing up. I don't really know
the truth here. The official inquiries don't support that, and if
that was true then just what they were negotiating about during
the weeks-long siege. I don't believe the Davidians were meekly
unresisting. I do think it was a royal fuckup which wasn't
adequately resolved.
\_ why did the ATF call a local tv station to come on down
and film them busting the doors down at le compound? they
in the US after WTC I.
could have just called david koresh to come to the station
and turn himself in. instead someone unwisely turned
it all into a clusterfuck.
\_ Okay, quit it. You aren't Walter Cronkite. Give it a rest.
-williamc
\_ Bullshit, six Davidians also were killed in the initial
shootout. It has never been established that the Davidians
fired first, more likely the ATF. Koresh used to walk
around town by himself a few days a week and had gone
shooting with ATF agents in the past. It was
never proven any of their arms were illegal. And I
suppose you think Randy Weaver's wife and son also
had it coming?
Furthermore, this is the shit the intelligence agencies were
up to during the '90s, all the while Islamicists were festering
in the US after WTC I. -Mr. Bullshit
\_ 'more likely the ATF'? What are you talking about? Do you
really have a reasonably legitimate source showing that ATF
is composed of trigger-happy psychopaths, or is this just
juvenile anecdotal 'I Hate Mom and Da--err Cops!'? I find it
very, very unlikely that federal agents serving a warrant would
have just started randomly shooting people, "Hey! That guy is
ugly! <BLAM!> That dude is short! <BLAM-BLAM!>" Get fucking
serious. I find it much more realistic that they tried to serve
the warrant, were fired upon, and in turn fired back. People
do tend to die in shootouts -- it's a proven fact. Honest! If
you can provide even semi-credible sources to back your claims,
I'll gladly concede the point (and be very pissed off at the
gross incompetency that my tax dollars are paying for).
\_ What was the warrant for? Weren't they entrapped by the Feds
into buying an illegal shotgun or something stupid like that?
\_ Proof that the Feds are a bunch of trigger happy jack boot
thugs? Ruby Ridge. Concede anything?
\_ I'm not going to try to debate or defend the ATF raid, but
someone very smugly said NO federal agents were killed, the
Davidians never fired a shot, and challenged people to name the
agents killed if there were any. -dgies
\_ what is this davidian thing all about? it kind of reminds
me of what we are doing to falluja.
\_ And why the hell are you guys arguing about it NOW?! There's
a lot more heinous things going on in the world RIGHT NOW.
JESUS.
\_ You see, son, there's this thing called HISTORY. Some
people are interested in it because it can often provide
context to this other thing called the PRESENT. The two
are often very strongly related to each other. Use a
dictionary, you might find it elucidating.
\_ Yes, history is important. However, rehashing idiotic
message board arguments from ages ago is not illuminating
in any way. Absolutely nothing I've seen here wasn't
run into the ground by every wingnut on every side of
the issue 10 years ago, and it didn't help anything then
or provide context. Oh yeah, and as to your cute
little dictionary comment, obFuckYou.
\_ It educated some people at the time as to the evils
the Government can inflict upon the People. We
rehash it (this is the History Lesson part) in an
effort to educate those, apparently such as yourself,
that the Government still acts like that and it is
unacceptable. |
| 2004/5/7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30075 Activity:moderate |
5/6 I'm running an old openbsd 3.2 system. I see that 3.5 now uses
ELF instead of a.out and they say source upgrade is not an option and
binary is possible but "very difficult". I'm lazy but need to upgrade
for various reasons. I use openbsd because I love 'pf'. I hate the
linux firewall tools. I haven't tried the other bsd's in a long time.
This is a headless server system so I don't care at all about the GUIs,
hardware support, or other apps. It's a firewall, mail, apache, dns,
and ssh server. Before I bite the bullet and rebuild an openbsd 3.5
system (which I'm *very* familiar and comfortable with) is there any
reason to switch to any other *nix out there? What am I missing
sitting in my little isolated openbsd world? Thanks!
\_ FreeBSD has pf. join us!
\_ The pf port is pretty good, but it is missing newer features
like pfsync and carp.
\_ Which version of FreeBsd would you suggest? Does pf exist in the
4.x series? Should I wait for 5.3 or is 5.21 working ok enough
for a home server? Thanks again. --op
\_ 5.2.1 seems to be pretty stable. I'm running it on a
box at work that provides nfs, nis, smb, apache, mail
and ntp with pf acting as a host firewall.
\_ Not much, if all you are using the box for is a router then stick
with what you know.
\_ I'm in a similar position. I have a OpenBSD 3.3 box that acts
as a router/firewall. I'm planning to reinstall w/ OpenBSD 3.5
because it has lots of security updates (privilege sep. named,
OpenSSH 3.8.1, pro-police, &c.). |
| 2004/5/7 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:30076 Activity:nil |
5/6 Installed lynx with openssl and now I have the following msg:
"unable to get local issuer certificate"
What's going on? |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:30077 Activity:nil |
5/6 Cool, I got the censors to delete the stupid illegal immigrant thread! |
| 2004/5/7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:30078 Activity:kinda low |
5/7 croned motd: squishable? gray area esp. after the paolo incident
croned wall: squishable? like croned "obFirst", is that squishable? |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30079 Activity:insanely high |
5/6 Everyone should read the latest entry from Riverbend:
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com
\_ URL deleted due to advertising lameness.
\_ What advertising lameness?
\_ You need to tell people what this is about.
\_ Okay: Riverbend is a blog by an Iraqi woman living in
Baghdad. Her most recent entry talks about current Iraqi
reactions to the pictures from Abu Ghraib; as might be
expected, this reaction is not favorable to the Coalition.
It's an interesting read in that it shows an average
Iraqi's take on things, a perspective often lacking in
US media's portraits of the situation there.
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com -!op
\_ "I sometimes get emails asking me to propose solutions or make
suggestions. Fine. Today's lesson: don't rape, don't torture,
don't kill and get out while you can- while it still looks
like you have a choice... Chaos? Civil war? Bloodshed? We'll
take our chances- just take your Puppets, your tanks, your
smart weapons, your dumb politicians, your lies, your empty
promises, your rapists, your sadistic torturers and go. "
\_ w00t!
\_ Why do you hate America? Oh...
\_ w00t! (please don't censor my w00t! asshole!)
\_ finally got around to looking up what this means :P
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=w00t
\_ You may end up regretting statement Riverbend.
\_ Murphy's Law #302: Anyone who asks, "How can things possibly
get any worse?" should be beaten about the head and shoulders
with a stick.
\_ Why do you hate America??? Oh... (why does the AMC hate this?) |
| 2004/5/7 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:30080 Activity:high |
5/7 Intel to cancel their Tejas.
\_ hehe, bye-bye high-freq 90nm (for now), hello multicore!
They will get mileage from their Centrino -> desktop designs,
but you won't see those CPUs for two years I think.
\_ The synchronicity of this and the info from MS that the average
system in 2 years for Longhorn will have a dual-core is interesting,
to say the least.
\_ Sandals have been out of fashion for some time.
\_ Those are Tevas. |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30081 Activity:high |
5/7 HL2 WinHEC demo (crazy!):
link:tinyurl.com/25bm5 (ntlworld.com)
\_ That footage is pretty old |
| 2004/5/7 [Recreation/Media] UID:30082 Activity:very high |
5/7 How many sitcom last episodes have you seen? Have you liked any?
\_ MASH, although, really, MASH crosses over into other categories
oh no, a show reflecting real life, and not a tv show category
\_ It was really more of a drama with a lot of dark humor to take
the edge off.
\_ i miss reruns of Soap
\_ Growing Pains
\_ Married with Children
\_ what was the ending to this one, I can't remember...
\_ Kelly's wedding, which she broke off at the last minute. It
was pretty weak.
\_ Nikki Cox is hotter than Christina Applegate.
\_ Seinfeld - it's not TOO bad..
\_ Friends: was a good episode.
\_ but a worthy ending to 10 years?
\_ a worthy ending to 10 years of Friends would have been a
car bomb right outside that fucking cafe. -tom
\_ Yaaay!
\_ Futurama's last ep was decent.
\_ they cancelled Futurama? Will it be revived?
\_ Cheers |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30083 Activity:high |
5/7 Rumsfeld's testimony before Congress is on cspan radio right now:
http://www.cspan.org
free access in multiple formats
\_ The bell tolls for thee, Rummy.
\_ Not really. I assume you didn't listen to the testimony?
\_ You mean the testimony where he wouldn't answer ANY direct
questions?
\_ "Mr. Secretary, that's a very simple straightforward
question."
\_ If you've been following the news for the last two years,
do you really need to?
\_ Rumsfeld has served his purpose. He gave the military structure a
kick in the ass. He made the comfy n cozy paper pushers do their
fucking jobs for the first time. He killed some useless weapons
programs and promoted some better ones that weren't as "sexy" to
the pentagon types. He can do one last useful thing when he bites
the bullet for the prisoner abuse and fades into the sunset.
-R.B. Cheney |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30084 Activity:high |
5/6 867,000 new jobs created this year. Unemployment rate down to 5.6%
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040507/D82DQ2IG1.html
\_ 867k low-pay/service sector/temp jobs. Yawn. Besides, 2 months
of job growth does not make a trend. And the torture of Iraqi
prisoners will result in a universal wave of disgust that will
knock the Bushies out of office.
\_ hey, Dubya didn't promise "good" jobs
\_ Bush can still pull out of Iraq and win the election. I don't
think he will, though.
\_ What, you think all the jobs based on nothing from the .com era
will come back?
\_ Funny quote from the article: "More Americans are working today
than at any time in our nation's history." No shit Sherlock.
There are also more Americans today than at any time in our
nation's history.
\_ That's why they're good politicians. They say things that are
only misleading but not wrong.
\_ Of course critics have been saying that there are more people out
of work now than ever for quite a while. Soon, any economic
statistic will favor the present.
\_ You mean like "we currently have the highest trade deficit
ever"? The highest government deficit ever? The highest
oil prices ever? I would not call that favoring the present,
but I guess that is one way to look at it. |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30085 Activity:nil |
5/6 Long range missile downed in test by anti-missile laser:
http://tinyurl.com/ypq3m (news.myway.com) |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30086 Activity:nil 66%like:32218 |
5/7 This Poll will be deleted in:
\_ less than 2 hours
\_ more than 2 hours
\_ when ______________ gets to it. |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30087 Activity:high |
5/7 "I've said today that there are a lot more photographs and videos that
exist. If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to
make matters worse. That's just a fact. ... I mean I looked at them
last night and they're hard to believe." -Rummy
\_ okay, i don't know the context of this quote, but what is he
saying, "fire me now?" or "it's not my fault?"
\_ I listened to the whole testimony. I think what he's saying
is "I/we fucked up. This is really bad, and could get worse.
I'm sorry. There will probably be another series of massive
media bombshells over the next few months, so be prepared. "
\_ I think he's saying "I'll resign when I think I need to." |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30088 Activity:high 50%like:11896 |
5/7 McGriddles? Yay or nay?
\_ Bring back the McDLT!
\_ Big yay. Very big.
\_ Keep the hot side hot and the cool side cool!
\_ Where's the Ribwich?
\_ Look! I don't mind the taste!
\_ Uhmm, the animal they made that out of is extinct.
\_ the McRib? I love how those are formed to look like
they have the rib bone intact. wft is that all about? |
| 2004/5/7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:30089 Activity:moderate |
5/7 What's up with this?
PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND
63318 jenly 59 0 19648K 1192K RUN 625:30 67.53% 67.53% perl5.005
\_ What's with the anonymous question? -emarkp
\_ you too can run the ps command.
\_ make sure to use the -w flag
\_ www
\_ That has eaten up 11 hours of CPU time in the past 29 hours.
\_ got pics?
\_ looks like out of control spamassassin
\_ is it a girl or a guy? If a guy, he needs to be squished. If a
girl, I would like to touch her.
\_ "Jennifer Ly" sounds like a girl. |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30090 Activity:very high |
5/7 Don't tell me people's civil liberties are not being trampled on
in The War Against Terror:
http://www.koin.com/webnews/20042/20040507_mayfieldb.shtml
\_ I don't think anyone actually denys it. Republicans just don't
care. Actually, I think that's an understatement. Republicans
such as John Ashcroft simply don't believe in civil liberties,
and clearly demonstrate by their actions that the believe American
due process of law to be a mistake, not a virtue. These people
are every bit as much enemies of the United States and everything
it stands for as our foreign enemies. If things in this coutry
do not change direction, there *will* be civil war.
\_ I think I should mention that *some* Republicans do care about
civil liberties and dislike Ashcroft, but for whatever reason,
they're not that vocal about it. -motd liberal
\_ When I say we're heading towards civil war, it's not because of
specific actions by Republican leadership; it's because of
statements and actions by ordinary citizens who happen to be
republicans. Take a look at the motd. Listen to AM talk
radio for an hour. Maybe you didn't notice in 2001
when these people were calling for Arab Muslims to be rounded
up into concentration camps? This problem won't go away
by Bush getting defeated in this election. It will either
go away by a consistent, nation-wide cultural shift towards
more freedom-loving values, or, more likeley, by worsening
until it comes to war.
\_ Actually, a secession along county (rather than state)
lines, based on voting majority would work out nicely
(for me). -- ilyas
\_ what's wrong with state lines?
\_ Too much oppression of voting minorities that way.
-- ilyas
\_ There's a tradeoff. I think a little group of
counties like in the smaller states works
better. They can afford better quality gov't
and better share power over natural resources.
\_ Actually a break into two roughly equal sized
chunks will work ok, as long as they both
allow immigration, people will just move to the
'right' chunk after a while. Large chunks have
the advantage of not getting taken over by
Random_Power_001. -- ilyas
Random_Power_001. If the two chunks started off
on equal footing, it would be an interesting
social and political experiment. -- ilyas
\_ So you think they are going to break out their guns
if Bush loses in November?
\_ I had a dream last night that the Administration
postponed the election to "avoid sending the wrong
message to our enemies." The reaction was not pretty.
\_ I think he's saying that liberals are going to wake
up and start the war.
\_ I sure hope not. -motd liberal
\_ Given the economic numbers today, that seems unlikely.
\_ The bill of rights only protects the weak and the subversive
while govt regulations are stilfing us the real Americans.
When and if your prophecy comes true, is it hard to bet
which side will win? The peacniks in lotus pose or we who
will take any and every measure to defeat them? Hmm, it
would be fun when we round up liberal chicks as illegal
combatants for interrogation. -- neocon
\_ Maybe so, but you do realize there's a big difference
between traditional crime a terrorism, right? The laws
designed for traditional crime just don't hold for
terrorism. It's a different bag.
\_ "Republicans just don't care" is a huge overstatement. The view
is that they'll give up some liberties so planes aren't crashing
into buildings, nukes aren't going off, suicide bombers aren't
exploding. The idea is, "If the government is watching you, you
must be doing something bad already."
I'm not saying this is the correct view, but I believe this is
the view held by most Republicans.
\_ How is this any different than any other criminal federal grand jury
case?
\_ How long can the government hold a person in solitary without
charging him with a crime or allowing him access to a lawyer?
\_ in civilian courts, I believe 24 hours.
\_ In national security cases, as long as they please.
(Newsflash: This is not new with Bush.)
\_ Basically, if you are designated an enemy combatant,
or a material witness
\_ Give us an example from the last 30 years.
\_ Here is a whole raft of examples post 9/11
http://www.rcfp.org/secretjustice/terrorism/materialwitness.html
\_ I believe op mis-stated his question, and wanted
to know of examples between the Vietnam War and 9/11.
\_ Yes, exactly, thank you. -op
\_ here's one example:
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=2329
there are other examples. but no clue how
prevalent usage of the statute was in general.
\_ Oh, that doesn't count. Anti-abortion
activists don't have rights.
\_ The "material witness statute" was enacted in 1984. I
don't know how often it's been invoked pre-9/11.
\_ As usual posters on the MOTD have ZERO appreciation of history
during wartime (or anytime for that matter). Citizens today
enjoy far and away more civil liberties than any time in the
history of this country. Learn about some of the actions
taken by FDR, Wilson, and Lincoln to suppress dissent.
This story sounds very similar to the Intel employee
who was locked up for some time, all the while
into Afghanistan?
screaming bloody murder about innocence, and is now serving
a generous prison term.
\_ As I recall, he was convicted of providing aid to a terrorist
organization. He claims he gave money to an Islamic charity.
The gov't said that the charity gave money to Hamas. Did he
really intend to give money to Hamas? Or is he simply guilty of
not researching the charity's finances and being Arab?
\_ You recall incorrectly: -jrleek
http://csua.org/u/77w
\_ OK, my bad. There was *someone* sent up the river for
giving money to somebody who gave money to Hamas.
\_ He faces 10 years in prison for trying, and failing to get
into Afghanistan?
\_ That and material aid to the Taliban. Think about
it. He's a US citizen. Helping out the enemy in
time of war is treason. In the old days they just
would have shot him.
\_ Yeah, Wen Ho Lee served a generous prison term too.
\_ Shut up you Facsist Nazi Bad Man! NO FREE SPEECH FOR
FASCISTS!
\_ I'd be really interested in a book on what the crap
Mr. Hawash was thinking. What convinced him to leave a good
job, and 3 kids, to go and "die as a martyr?"
\_ Phony spirituality. "Making people do stupid things since
34AD". -- ilyas
\_ so what's your excuse?
\_ Just garden variety stupidity in my case. -- ilyas
P.S. Do I know you, Mr. Secret Admirer #5?
\_ 34AD? It goes back a whole heck of a lot farther that
that, anti-christian boy.
\_ Note, I said 34, not 33. -- ilyas
\_ Ah, good old Mike Hawash I thought that was dang funny.
\_ most of those actions were deplorable. Japanese internment,
hell the whole Civil War was an unethical disaster.
\_ The internment was not bad. That there property was
not returned afterwards was. Other ethnic groups
were also detained including Italians, Germans and
Mexicans.
\_ So you'd be fine with the government locking you up for
a few years in the name of security?
\_ Of course he wouldn't. But the only lock up those
"other" people, not REAL Americans.
\_ My point is given the saboteur rhetoric widespread
in Japanese newspapers at the time, the caches of
weapons that were found, and the context of the
times it seems entirely reasonable to evacuate
coastal regions of recently arrived Japanese (not US)
citizens and their children (and Germans, Italians
initially get lawyers until the copys figure out what's
and Mexicans).
The Federal government was much smaller so large
scale surveillance was not pluasible, a Japanese
invasion of the west coast was completely
possible, and sabotage in Europe by Axis agents had
done much damage.
They should have been given some payment based on
their detainment and their property returned.
\_ Funny, I thought we were discussing the legality of the
action, not the ethics. legal != ethical (and vice
versa)
\_ Turns out he was one of the lawyers defending Jeffrey Battle,
another of the Portland 7.
\_ If that's true it's a good example of why terrorist don't
initially get lawyers until the cops figure out what's
going on. Terrorists in jail can still communicate deadly
information. |
| 2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30091 Activity:nil |
5/7 Shocking news flash! Michael Moore is a self-promoting lying scumbag.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=518901
\_ self-promoting? sure. everyone in the industry is. lying? The
crux of his charge is that disney decided not to distribute his
film because of pressure from politicians. when he knew about it
doesn't change the validity of the charge. scumbag? i'll leave
that to people who know him. Keep in mind that he was already on
the cannes festival shortlist.
\_ i can handle one little white lie by mm versus
well just about 1000 other things going on right now.
\_ Non sequitur.
\_ If you read what Mickael Moore really said, that article does a very
good job at taking stuff out of context to make him sound a lot
worse that he really is. Shocking news flash! The Independent is
a totally partisan rag!
\_ You can't really fault a filmmaker for trying to create free
publicity. MM is indeed a lying scumbag, so much so that this is
\_ Yes I can.
like criticising the devil for smoking (though, i have to admit,
i still am a bit of a fan), but it is his affinity for dishonesty
*IN* his movies that is dispicable, not his self-promotion. -phuqm
\_ Of Satan or Michael Moore? -- ilyas
\_ shrug, what's wrong with having an agenda to make Disney look bad?
He didn't lie in this instance. He just held the news until he
could exploit it to maximum negative effect. Seems to me the
reporter is just swallowing the freeper spin hook, line, and sinker. |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30092 Activity:nil |
5/8 ROCK OUT WITH YOUR COCK OUT! (NSFW)
http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/a9/e5/cf_1_b.JPG |
| 2004/5/7 [Computer/Theory, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:30093 Activity:high |
5/7 How do I make ls sort files by size like -t for time? thx
\_ From man ls:
The following is how to do an ls listing sorted by size
(and shows why ls does not need a separate option for this):
ls -l | sort -n +4
\_ use Linux, it's -S
\_ I want to do this on soda!
\_ download gnu fileutils, compile, presto.
\- ls -ls | sort -n[r] --psb
\_ ls -ls | sort -n[r]
sort: No match.
\- dont actually type the [], you doofus --psb
\_ ls -l | sort +4 is more general.
\- it's more fragile. ls -s always makes the sort field
first. otherwise the field can depend on whether the
group owner is listed etc ... varies by ls flavor,
ls aliases etc --psb
\_ well, I meant since it depends on block size it
would fail by default for tiny files.
\- fair enough, but really arnet you just looking
for the biggest file 95% of the time. --psb
\_ Add a -n for good measure. Not all platforms will
detect an all numeric column, so "sort -n +4"
\_ ok, but he said "want to do this on soda!" :)
frankly though I think the man page is stupid and
it should be an ls option for convenience. they
have the other sorting functionality.
\_ They have sorting for time becuase sorting human
readable dates is difficult with other default
command line tools. Sorting file size is easy.
This is the UNIX way. many modular pieces you
can piece together to do what you want. Linux
makes you weak. --scotsman
\_ it's a bunch of extra characters to type for
a basic, common desire that could very easily
just be in ls where normal people expect. (hey,
why should sort have a field option anyway? you
can just manipulate lines using 'cut' etc. It's
the way real men do it.)
\_ don't be a doofus--it's not like FreeBSD
"ls" is "pure" (color "ls" doesn't make you
weak, but sorting on size does?) -tom
\_ I wasn't talking about purity. And I guess
it wasn't clear that I was being facetious.
But the point stands that to pull sort into
ls with yet another command line option
makes ls more tedious to remember how to use
and postpones the newer user's learning how
to use sort. And who uses color ls?
--scotsman
\_ how is it more tedious? If you don't
want to use -S, pipe it through sort
instead. -tom
\_ I guess I'm just sick of interviewing
IT drones who can't write a decent
command line.. --scotsman
\- how about adding a du flag that
just means du all the directories
under here but not the files.
how about another du flag that
is directories only in size
order. and another that sorts
based on number of files rather
than cumul size.. --psb
\_ Ah yes, I forgot; the only
"official" command-line options
are the ones that FreeBSD has
adopted. Therefore it's OK
to use "find -delete", but not
"ls -S" -tom
\- pure is BSD 4.3 --psb
\_ color ls is the best thing since linux!
just like color monitor is the best thing
since monochrome green terminals.
\_ Once you begin to appreciate color ls, you
will never go back, like a lot of things.
\- dired >> ls --psb
\_ using sort -n +5 gets rid of the color, oh fuck, fuck!!
\_ If you are using a terminal with black background, try
LSCOLORS=BxDxFxdxCxdxdxBxBxBxBx and do ls -G
\_ Cool, ls -lG / looks nice! |
| 2004/5/7 [Computer/SW/Virus] UID:30094 Activity:nil |
5/7 Have you installed both Norton and McAfee on the same system?
Which is better? |
| 2004/5/7 [Uncategorized] UID:30095 Activity:nil |
5/7 To colorize your ls output on soda, set the LSCOLORS env var, ie:
setenv LSCOLORS=BxDxFxdxCxdxdxBxBxBxBx
then set terminal to xterm-color/linux
finally alias ls 'ls -CFG' |
| 2004/5/7-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:30096 Activity:very high |
5/7 So Redhat has this enterprise line that costs big bux. Anyone seen
this: http://whiteboxlinux.org
Seems to have all advantages with no cost, except the vague uneasiness
of not being "real" red hat. Are real enterprises using clones?
\_ Linux is linux. The kernel is exactly the same. You are paying
for support for RHE, not the software.
\_ redhat has been backporting 2.6 features into their 2.4 kernel,
so 'the kernel is exactly the same' isn't always true
\_ In theory but some ISVs only certify their shit for RHEL.
If stuff is set up to work on their particular setup then you'd
want to use that instead of "Fedora" or something.
\_ Real enterprises don't use linux. Real enterprises are happy to
spend tremendous amounts of money so when something goes wrong the
guy who purchased the stuff doesn't get fired. Instead, they grab
the vendor by the balls and the vendor's staff works day and night
to resolve the problem. When the NYSE is run on the same linux I
can download or buy off the shelf from Compusa, lemme know. Some
places will use linux in non-critical locations and cluster the
shit out of it so several simultaneous failures doesn't cost
someone their career.
\_ A lot of banks in NY still use VAXes. Don't look to them.
They have more money than sense. They will still spend
millions to upgrade their IBM mainframes. Plenty of "real
enterprises" use Linux.
\_ The poster is defining "real enterprise" as "any enterprise
that doesn't use Linux".
\_ Nonsense. I describe it above and again below and ask
for some campany names as well. You're so cheeky but not
quite as clever as you'd like to believe.
\_ E*TRADE uses Linux on IBM hardware with an IBM
contract. My dad's company (large manufacturer of
car accessories) runs MVS on an emulator on a Linux
box and it (not surprisingly) was faster than the
old mainframe. IBM wanted $1 million for an upgrade
and this solution cost $100K and works great!
\_ Further research shows that Schwab also runs
Linux supported by IBM. I think IBM's support of
Linux is key.
\_ That isn't the same Linux I can buy at compusa.
Also, that IBM hardware and contract is the key
concept I've stated 3 times now: no one is going
to pick anything that will get them fired. With
IBM on the hook to fix anything and work 24x7 on
it, the purchasing manager's career is safe(r).
If you were at a real company and chose Linux but
didn't have a company like IBM behind you'd be
a) stupid, and b) looking for a new job while the
company c) put out a job req for someone who
understand that $1m or $100k is *nothing* when
your entire company is on the line.
\_ You make no sense. Since IBM supports
Linux it is okay? Either the OS is capable
or it is not. Is your issue one of
support? If so, sign a contract with IBM.
\_ IBM won't just "sign a contract". It has to
be *their* version of unix, their install,
their guys involved in the architecture and
design phase, etc. I'm just guessing here
but you're not working yet, huh?
\_ So, assuming you're the guy who claimed
"Real enterprises don't use linux,"
you've basically realized you've made
yourself look like an idiot, and are now
spouting ad hominem arguments in a weak
attempt to save face. Real enterprises
use linux. Sure, their particular
distribution has to be certified, and
running on certified hardware, so that
someone will be willing to provide a
support contract. This does not mean that
the linux they run is so much different
than the linux you can run.
\_ Here, let's use a real-life example to
illustrate the point. Ugly fat biker
dude offers to give you an enema. You
reject the offer. Hot chick in nurse
uniform offers to give you an an enema.
You jump at the offer. Same enema,
different person making the offer,
different reaction.
\_ This post wins the best motd analogy
in recent memory award.
-- motd enema analogy dude #1 fan
\_ You don't seem to understand what "Enterprise level" means.
Do you even know what a mainframe is? Do you have any idea
what a cluster of VAXen can do? Name the Fortune 500 company
that is using stock Linux in a mission critical role. No one
is stupid enough to put billions of dollars or lives on the
line by using Linux to save a few bucks.
\_ Well, I am not sure if google is fortune 500, but they are
using linux in a 'mission critical role'.
\_ There are two mentioned just above your post. Let me
guess, they're "not using it in a mission critical role."
\_ I replied above.
\_ What's frightening is that "real enterprises" use MS
Windows at the enterprise level. How does that factor
into your argument?
\_ Name that Fortune 100 company and we'll discuss it.
\_ how about MSFT
\_ *laugh* And we've seen the effect of _that_ on
their security, uptime, etc. That is why RE's
don't care if a project costs $100k or $1m when
their multi-$B company is on the line. Those
kinds of numbers are so trivially small they don't
matter. Stop thinking small potatos. |
| 5/17 |