Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:August:23 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:22216 Activity:high
8/22    Nowadays everyone tells me csh/tcsh sucks.  I started my
        undergraduate at Cal in 1990, and all of my first UNIX accounts
        defaulted to csh.  Given that csh wasn't the standard shell in UNIX
        and it looks like all the other more advanced shells (bash, ksh, ...)
        seem to have existed back then, why weren't new students set up to
        learn one of those shells right at the beginning?
        \_ *csh sucks for scripting, but for normal, daily, interactive
           use tcsh is probably more intuitive.  A well-config'ed bash
           environment is every bit as good as tcsh (perhaps better w/
           respect to using scripts) but takes a little more effort to
           \_ last i checked bash's completions weren't as buff as tcsh's..
              of course zsh is DA POWER SHELL
           \_ bash's prompt doesn't do colors/hiliting.
              \_ not a big deal
                 \_ all else being equal, it makes tcsh a better interactive
                    \_ All thing being equal, not being able to do the
                       equivalent of "command 2> errors " makes tcsh worse
                       interactive shell for me.
                       \_ what about >& in tcsh?
                       \_ in tcsh: (command > /dev/tty) >& errors
                          \_ yes, but that's a silly kludge.
                    \_ I just love how tcsh has different syntaxes for set and
                       setenv.  brilliant.
        \_ Because in 1990, csh could be found in nearly every form of *NIX
           that had existed for the last five years. Think LCD. What good
           is it to know tcsh when you're doing work on an SCO box at LBL?
           It's why you learn "vi" or "ed." Because sometimes you're on a
           POS without modern tools. Bearskins and stone knives, my friend.
2001/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22217 Activity:high
8/22    Proof that Bush smokes pot - the so-called "surplus" and his
        predicitions of a "quick rebound"
        \_ He's doing a great job. The $300 he gave me almost makes up
           for the money I lost in the stock market since he took over.
        \_ and he named some air force dood to head the military!
2001/8/23 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:22218 Activity:kinda low
8/22     How do you do multilevel command substitution? For example,
        echo `echo `echo `echo hello```
        But how do you escape the `?
        \_ In (t)csh, you can't; in most other shells, you can do it like this:
           echo $(echo $(echo $(echo hello)))
        \_ How about echo hello | xargs echo | xargs echo | xargs echo?
        \_ echo `echo \`echo \\\`echo hello\\\`\``
           \_ not in tcsh you don't.
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:22219 Activity:kinda low
8/22    Someone mentioned something about using scotch to get to CSUA via
        port 80. How do I get an account on scotch?
        \_ if you drink enough scotch, you won't care about this stuff.
        \_ ask for an office acct.  get your sid and come to 343.
        \_ scotch port 80 forwards to csua.
        \_ some nice person should post how to use the port
                forward on scotch, i can't remember right now
           \_ ssh -p 80. is that what you are asking?
              \_ though ssh is idiotic and doesn't include ports as part of
                 the host definition in the known_hosts file, so this will
                 tend to confuse it.  You're better off putting:
                 Host soda
                    Port 80
                 in your ~/.ssh/config file, and then just "ssh soda"
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:22220 Activity:nil
8/23    so why is that apple doing all the PowerPC evangelism?  Is it just
        because they are the only company using PowerPC for personal computers?
        shouldn't the company/ies that make the PowerPC be doing some of their
        own evangelism too?  Something to keep up with "Intel Inside"?
        \_ Apple is the only consumer PC companies with PowerPC computer.
           Definitely, they are up against the Pentium <insert number here>
           more than the embedded and workstation market.  You don't see
           IBM marketing as heavily in the RISC market because people
           who pay >$20k for a computer knows their stuff.  On the other
           hand, the new Nintendo Gamecube will have an IBM logo to
           advertise for IBM/PowerPC.  (Don't remember seeing a MIPS logo
           on the Playstation)
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/Networking] UID:22221 Activity:kinda low
8/23    What speed do you guys usually get on your PacBell DSL?  I just got
        it working yesterday and using the various speed test pages, I'm
        getting anywhere from 400-700K.  I've also heard that PacBell caps
        your speed even if you're close to the CO.  Is that true?  Anybody
        get 1 meg speeds?  Thanks.
        \_ I get about 1.2 Mb down and 128 Kb up with PacBell. --dim
        \_ Does PacBell use PPPoE?  Is there any signficant disadvantage to
           \_ Yes. Your IP address will change once in a while and that should
              kill all active TCP/IP sessions. PPPoE software sucks too.
              Either get DirecttvDSL or Sonic DSL. Same speed and price but
              you get a static IP.
              \_ will sonic or directtv be around?
                \_ don't know about sonic but the rumor is that directv is
                   one of the few nation-wide DSL companies that is large
                   enough to survive the DSL turmoil. DSL is just one
                   of many other servives they sell.
2001/8/23-24 [Reference/BayArea, Reference/Military] UID:22222 Activity:high
8/23    My brother with his friend are coming to town and he wants me to show
        him interesting places in Bay Area. What are the good places
        to take them to? I have no clue myself. I haven't come out of
        Berkeley in ages ..
        \_ Winchester Mystery House - 1 hour drive, but very worth it
           It's the goth-geek-freak-hipster-nerd guide to SF, worth a look
           for this sort of thing.
        \_ Golden Gate Park, Koit Tower, Lombard Avenue, Haight/Ashbury,
           Jack London Sq, Sony Metrion, ...
           \_ twin peaks, mount tam, stinson, sausalito.. the metreon is
              far from interesting..
        \_ drive to monterey
        \_ Boys Toys in North Beach.
        \_ What does your bro likes to do? I mean, you could start with
           'regulation-standard' touristy places such as Pier 39, Ghirardeli
           Square, Golden Gate Bridge, and the likes. If he wants something
           unique, drive down to Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk. Ditto on the
           Monterey, not to be missed. If he likes museums, plenty of that too,
           including the SF Exploratorium. Ask them for specifics. - jthoms
        \_ maybe you can show him the homeless on telegraph.
           \_ The homeless one Telegraph? You mean history majors, right?
           \_ Heck, you can see homeless anywhere. The ones on telegraph are
              just more in the way.
        \_ I've always liked going to Napa Valley.
              \_ I think this is part of Fort Baker in Marin.
              \_ I'm looking into it, but here's a URL that might be somewhat
                 useful.    -mice
        \_ Mitchell Bros.  in SF.
                 army lookout points.  These links point to the primary sites.
        \_ You can take him to the abandoned WWII-era army bases in Marin.
           They're open to the public.  History, hiking, beautiful
           California coastline, etc.  -mice
           \_ is there a formal name for this place?
              \_ Fort Barry, probably.   -mice
                 The whole area is stuffed with old gun emplacements and
                 army lookout points.  If you do end up going, remember to
                 bring warm clothes.
                  \_ Is there places to camp around there?
           \_ Also the USS Hornet or USS Jeremiah O'Brien
        \_ Take them to a club so they can pick up some nice women.
        \_ Show them both Telegraph and U. Ave at $tanfurd.  Then they can
           see that college cultures can be very different even for schools
           that are close to each other.  How old are they and where are
           they from anyway?
           \_ Telegraph avenue is good for being asked "spare change for pot"
              and smelling urine or feces that ocassionally graces the
              street, but not much else.
              \_ before you can accept Telegraph avenue, you must come to
                 grips with the telegraph avenue within yourself.
2001/8/23-24 [Recreation/Dating, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Aspolito] UID:22223 Activity:insanely high
8/23    What is a proper reaction when you bump into an ex-GF with whom you
        had a nasty breakup?  (Or ex-BF).  I pretended that I didn't see her
        and walked right on and did not look at her.  There are probably
        different reactions in different situations:
        a)  I was walking alone and she was with a guy
            \_ I'd look at who she was with but not at her
        b)  I was with a girl and she was alone
            \_ not surprising to see no replies in this section.
               \_ Ask for a threesome.
        c)  I was with a girl and she was with a guy
            \_ same as (a).
        \_ ATTENTION BDG!  What would you do if you bumped into your ex-wife
           on the street?  -bdg's #1 fan
        \_You should grab her breasts instead of shaking her hand.
           \_ Sorry, you're not in Japan.
        \_ Don't be pathetic.  Smile, wave, say hi, get over youself already.
           Sheesh.  Did you learn anything growing up?  -aspo
           \_ There is this old saying: 'Man, to thyself be true.'  It applies
              in this case.  Most people dislike their ex-girlfriends.  I will
              not smile, or wave, or say hi to someone I do not like.  This
              isn't being immature, it is being true to myself.  You, aspolito,
              are a conniving little shit.  You are not true to yourself.
              \_ It's not an old saying, it's your incredibly poor
                 misquotation of Shakespeare, Hamlet Act I, Scene 3,
                        This above all: to thine ownself be true,
                        And it must follow, as the night the day,
                        Thou canst not then be false to any man.
                       are people so afraid to show their true feelings?
                 And, frankly, you seriously missed the point.
           \_ you know he's right. unless you want to remain an immature
              sodan geek with no social skills forever.
              \_ well, if it was a "nasty breakup" why should you smile and
                 wave? that's just being unrealistic.
                 \_ No, that's being cordial. Do you wear your heart on
                    your sleeve for everything?
                    \_ there's a difference between wearing your heart on your
                       sleeve and outright being false. i wouldn't do anything
                       in particular but i sure wouldn't put on some fake act.
                       the whole assumption here was that we're not friends,
                       presumably anti-friends, for some reason. the way people
                       put on fake acts for each other is such bullshit. why
                       are people so afraid to show their true feelings? i have
                       second thoughts about people who act one way in front of
                       someone and then different behind their back. it's kind
                       of like lying, morally.
                       \_ so why don't you sign your name, coward?  -tom
                          \_ why are you so interested in my name, fag?
                             \_ Well it sure is easy to be "honest" and
                                call people names when you hide behind
                                anonymity.  -tom
                       \_ So you'd rather that everyone who dislikes you
                          assaults you when they see you?  I'd prefer the
                          alternative where they pretend that they don't
                          want to beat me up, even though you think that's
                          "lying, morally".
                          \_ Maybe that's because you're a cowardly little shit.
                             If they hate me then yeah I'd like to know, so I
                             know to watch out for them. Nails under my tires,
                             and all that.
                      \_ No, it's called being polite.
                      \_ it isn't about "lying, morally" you whiny little
                         shit.  It is about being a reasonable person and
                         not so self-absorbed you hold onto things forever.
                         You dated this person, you presumably at one point
                         cared about this person.  The least you can do is
                         say hi to them.  It isn't about being polite, it is
                         about having a little respect for people even when
                         you don't get along with them.
                         That being said if it was a really ugly breakup you
                         allowed a few months where you can sulk and be an
                         annoying little twit and do tihngs like ignore someone
                         although if you are a big enough man you wouldn't
                         have to.  -aspo
                         \_ oh and it is quite possible to smile, wave, and
                            say hi without actuing like you are buddy-buddy
           \_ Wow.  Aspo giving girlfriend advice.  What do you know about
              women, aspo?  Heck, what do you know about men?
              \_ more than most sodans.  -aspo
                 \_ Stop digging dude.
                  \_ what you want a resume of the people I've dated? -aspo
                     \_ Let me know when you get to China.
        \_ Ask for a quick fuck.
        \_ d) You were with a girl and your ex-GF was with a girl, and your
           ex-GF were trying to approach your girl why she had become a
        e)  I was with yermom and she was with yerdad
        \_ I agree with aspo. -ausman
           \_ Is aspo some religious figure like Paul?
              \_ Yes, Aspo is my Lord and Master.
                 \_ He is when his cock is in your ass.
        \_ I have read that in some cultures (e.g. Japanese culture), the
           more formal and polite the are, the more it indicates your
           dislike for a person (assuming you know them well enough to be
           less formal).  This isn't being false to yourself, but
           demonstrating your dislike in a way that doesn't make you look
           \_ those are fucked-up cultures. anyway, that's different than
              "smile, wave, say hi".
2001/8/23 [Transportation] UID:22224 Activity:nil
8/23    What's the best way to slash someone's tire?
        \_ Get a knife.  A really, really sharp knife.  Like razor sharp.
           Then swing the knife across your own throat.  This will make sure
           it's sharp.  Before you lose consciousness, slash the tire.
           \_ Actually, before you lose consciousness, wipe the blade off.
              A knife that sharp would be good for steak.
        \_ do you slash on the side or in between the tread and the side?
2001/8/23-24 [Uncategorized] UID:22225 Activity:nil
8/23    I think you should change the call from MOVE TO TEXAS to
2001/8/23-24 [Uncategorized] UID:22226 Activity:nil
        order your cubical decoration today!
2001/8/23-24 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:22227 Activity:high
8/23    as for the napa comment-winetasting in livermore >> winetasting in napa.
        Wineries there are free, they are not rude, they are not all just
        trying to cater to billionaire eurotrash.
        \_ It's not hard to find free wine (V. Settui comes to mind), and I've
           never encountered a rude person in all the wineries I've been to.
           - Baron Karl Geunter Goebbels III
        \_ Rude is charging $2 for a taste of your lowest grade vino.
        \_ concannon vineyards in livermore is free, and has pretty good syrah.
                        \_ shiraz?
        \_ It is very difficult to find vineyards who give free tastings
           nowadays. On a recent trip to Napa, I checked out over 5 vineyards
           who _used_ to give free tastings, and now they all charge. -nivra
        \_ I've been told that almost none of the wineries in Sonoma
            \_ That's correct.  -crebbs
           charge for tasting.  - mikeym
2001/8/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:22228 Activity:high
8/23    how many people find Mr. Chou's commercial reinforces racist Chinese
        stereotypes? "I no goot at the football, that why I become the best
        cook!" or "Fie dolla cheap foo!"
        \_ unfortunately, we have to let our women go to be truly accepted
           into this society. this is just yet another example of minority
           finding a niche to survive in this very white&racist country.
           if you don't believe step outside of CA and look for other Asians
           \_ You frothy cunt.
           \_ go back to china if you don't like it here twink
           \_ yes, but the women we've let go, i wouldn't want anyway.
              everyone knows the ugly ones get taken by cauasians. at least
              in my (large) company, it's that way.
              \_ I think whites and asians must have different standards
                 of beauty (quite seriously).
        \_ Martin Yan of "Yan Can Cook" fakes his accent.
           \_ Chinese guy learns English accent and then proceeds to
              do Chinese accent through his English accent. At least
              he made it big in show business.
           \_ I heard he had no accent when he went to school in UCD.
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:22229 Activity:high
8/23    What's the name of / where can I get the song that goes
        "downtown, thing's will be great when you're downtown"
        that airs on the Pacbell Park SF Giants commercials?
        \- are you talking about the often covered and often parodied
        petula clark song "downtown". btw, who does the "if i only had a
        brin" inthat recent VISA commercial? ok tnx. --psb
        \_ the one that airs is the original petuala clark song. name is
           \_ Partha, I haven't seen the commercial, but I believe there's
              a song by that name by MC 900 Ft. Jesus.  -John
        \_ the one that airs is the original petula clark song. name is
           correct: "Downtown."
        \_ "If I only had a brAin" is from the Wizard of Oz, but I'm guessing
           you knew that already. ok, tnx.
           \- yes i mean the *version* in the visa commercial. --psb
              \_ Who sings that rap/hiphop version of "Angel of the Morning"
                 \_ And where do they live?
                 \_ That's a fellow named Shaggy.
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:22230 Activity:high
8/23    INTC is going to SUCK. -anonymous coward
        \_ INTC being?
           \_ The stock symbol of Intel Corp.?
        \_ I dunno, 2 GHz @ ~$550 per processor in bulk sounds pretty non-suck
           to me.
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:22231 Activity:kinda low
8/23    My company is thinking of switching over from MS SourceSafe to
        cvs. Primary reason is price. Any good cvs introductory resources
        out there? Thanks in advance.
        \_ is a good place to start.
        \_ Lots of docs and stuff at
2001/8/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:22232 Activity:moderate
8/23    One of the byproducts of the Linux 2.5 Kernel Summit was the notion of an
        enhancement of the loadable kernel module interface to facilitate
        security-oriented kernel modules.  The purpose is to ease the tension
        between folks (such as Immunix and SELinux) who want to add substantial
        security capabilities to the kernel, and other folks who want to
        minimize kernel bloat & have no use for such security extensions.
        \_ well, folks "with no use for security extensions" probably ought
           to run cygwin xfree4 on win98 then.  See screenshot:
           <DEAD><DEAD> - notbrg.
                                                          \_ shouldn't that
                                                             be !brg ?
           \_ Why not just use exceed or xwin32? Seems a lot less of a hassle.
2021/06/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2001:August:23 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>