11/2    This is pretty funny, hope it doesn't offend the HMC
        http://members.cox.net/impunity/endofworld.swf
        \_ HMC?
           \_ Humorless Motd Censor

11/2    There will henceforth be no mention of the Holy MOTD Censor.

11/2    From Eric S. Raymond's website:

        As an American and native English-speaker myself, I have previously
        been reluctant to suggest this, lest it be taken as a sort of cultural
        imperialism. But several native speakers of other languages have
        urged me to point out that English is the working language of the
        hacker culture and the Internet, and that you will need to know it to
        function in the hacker community.

        This is very true. Back around 1991 I learned that many hackers who
        have English as a second language use it in technical discussions even
        when they share a birth tongue; it was reported to me at the time that
        English has a richer technical vocabulary than any other language and
        is therefore simply a better tool for the job. For similar reasons,
        translations of technical books written in English are often
        unsatisfactory (when they get done at all).

        Linus Torvalds, a Finn, comments his code in English (it apparently
        never occurred to him to do otherwise). His fluency in English has
        been an important factor in his ability to recruit a worldwide
        community of developers for Linux. It's an example worth following.
        \_ Ok, I think most of us knew this but even if not, what's your
           point?  Was this supposed to be educational?  Upsetting?  Bait?
           I'm willing to play along, I just need to know my role.  Thanks.
           \_ I'm just sick of people posting to the motd in broken English,
              and then bitching when people call them on it.  See below.
              \_ you know, if you are critical of ALL grammatically incorrect
                 post on motd, I wouldn't bitch as much.  Yet, you, like good
                 number of others, selectively tolerate one form of
                 grammatic error, while critical and censoring another.
                 If you think my grammatic error is somewhat inferior than
                 those improper English posted by the native speaker or
                 European decent, then, please go fuck yourself.
                 \_ You know why it pisses me off?  I'll tell you.  It's
                    because I work with fuckers like you.  I've worked with
                    plenty of people who can come straight over from PRC
                    and speak and write clear, understandable, if slightly
                    stilted English and can always get their point accross.
                    Then there are people who no matter how long they're here,
                    their English is always not just bad, but actually a
                    danger to those around them.  When you're working
                    with things that can kill you, you don't want to wonder
                    wether the guy next to you is going to be able to
                    communicate in any useful way or not.  I have learned
                    by dealing with fucktards like you that the *reason* that
                    some poeple in engineering are like this is not that
                         \_ people (learn to spell you moron)
                            \_ Ooh, the previous poster writes a 290 word
                               diatribe, makes a typo in "people" once out of
                               four times, and you call him out on it.
                               Congratulations.  Oh, and it's "Learn to spell,
                               you moron."
                    they are from one country from another or that they are
                    dumb.  It is an arrogance that infects the culture of
                    engineering like a cancer.  That arrogance assumes that
                    if you are good at book learning you don't have to be
                    able to communicate.  These people are always second rate
                    engineers anyway, because their work is no good to anyone
                    if they can't communicate.  Every nation in the world
                    has jackasses like this, including of course, the US.  The
                    difference is that fuckers like this who are from other
                    countries are just easier to spot and pose a bigger physical
                    danger in an emergency.  And yes, I can speak Mandarin
                    better than your English, and no, I'm not Chinese.
                    You can cry "racism"! all you like here, but when you go
                    back to China and don't ever get promoted because of your
                    shitty communication skills, don't blame Cal.  At least
                    one of us tried to straighten your dumb ass out.
                        \_ I work with people from China, Russia, Korea, and
                           Vietnam all day - but the worst English writing
                           comes from the American-born-and-educated "native"
                           speakers in our group.
                           \_ Nope.  I work with people from China, Russia, and
                              Vietnam, and they can barely communicate.  It
                              drives me nuts.
                 \_ Dude... I am not the original poster, but I have this to
                    say.  Yours is the most borken English ever heard around
                    here.  Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia, you top them all.
                    You, sir, are the king of mean-spirited linguistic
                    mediocrity.
                 \_ The world isn't black and white.  There are degress.  Also,
                    this is a casual social hangout, not the classroom.  Thus,
                    common usage English is appropriate, whereas broken ESL
                    English is not.  Lah!
                    \_ Your use of "lah" is improper as per the Singlish
                       standard.  Please lah, try not to use "lah" if you
                       don't know how to use it.  It breaks my heart to see
                       a beautiful thing like "lah" improperly used.
                       \_ LAH! I've played online games for years with all the
                          .sg boys and I know the standard: LAH! can and should
                          be used at all times.  Any sentence that doesn't
                          contain at least 1 random usage of LAH! is
                          non-standard and subject to ridicule, LAH!
                          \_ All I can say is that you are wrong, and
                             your language learning fu is weak.  "Lah"
                             needs to have proper placement within a
                             sentence, and it doesn't work in all
                             sentences.

11/2    I want to share a story regards to shoulder-fire missile.  In the late
        1980s, I was talking to an immigrant from the mainland China.
        What make him an interesting figure is that he used to work in
        some rocket R&D/manufacturing facility in Gan-Su province.  I
        asked him rather China could make stuff as cool as shoulder-fire
        missile like Stinger. He told me, to my suprise, yes.  According
        to him, China got a good R&D boost when then the Socialist
        government of Afghanistan captured bunch American made
        Stinger missles from the Muslim extremist rebel (read: TALIBAN)
        which USA supported. It gave the mainland China half dozen of
        those shoulder-fired missiles. By reverse engineering it, China
        was able to make, though crude by comprison, a mock up that
        actually works.

        Isn't it kind of funny that both the regime which USA supported
        and the Stinger missile technology it leaks out as result, are
        coming back and haunt USA?
        \_ Why would that be funny?  You see, kid, there was this thingy a
           few years back called 'The Cold War' in which two superpowers of
           markedly different ideologies fought for global supremacy through
           a variety of means.  Control of obscure pieces of territory where
           cash flow and stragetic positioning of intercontinental nuclear
           weapons was the currency used in this 'Cold War'.  Sadly, since
           both of these Superpower thingies existed in the real world
           (rather than your ESL anti-US utopia), nasty immoral things often
           had to be done to keep the opposing ideological faction from
           gaining the upperhand.  This led to both of these regimes supporting
           nasty evil religious or just plain nasty and evil dictatorships and
           other things to keep the other in check.  That there 'Cold War'
           is now over, and sadly, these evil little regimes are still there.
           It is a phenomenon often referred to by educated people as 'the
           lesser of two evils'.  Keep this one factoid in mind: You're not
           nearly as clever, perceptive, or intelligent as you think you are.
        \_ Yea really funny you fucking traitorous piece of shit.   Go
           back your homeland if its so great.
        \_ technology is good for only 10 years, till which it'll be made
           obsolete by other technology or be stolen and used against the
           originator. It's happened to the Greeks, Egyptians, Chinese,
           US vs. Brits, etc. Nothing new here.
           \_ agree, then why we are so obsessed with 50 year old technology
              such as Nuclear bomb and chemical weapon?
              \_ Uhm, because they're weapons capable of inflicting casualties
                 in the 5-7 digit range relatively instantly?  Because their
                 manufacture is pretty sophisticated?  Maybe because the
                 materials are often difficult to obtain, create, or find?
                 Maybe because there are people out there that are willing to
                 inflict insane civilian casualties for completely ideological
                 reasons based strictly on hate?
              \_ Hey, nice bit of intenional intellectual dishonesty and
                 stupidity.  Is there a class where they teach that sort of
                 self induced blindness?
        \_ this is not the first time in history. The Ballista technology
           was taken away from the Roman army. The Greek fire was copied and
           used against the inventor's home. The American colony got
           the gunmaking technology from the Brits and won. The Japs got
           the plane technology from Boeing to make lots of Mitsubishi Zeros
           to attack Pearl harbor. The list goes on and on. I saw a documentary
           that says a new war technology is good for only 10 years, after
           which it'll be stolen or made obsolete.
           \_ agree, that is why I thought it's silly to invade Iraq,
              sanction North Korea over  poliferation of nuclear bomb and
              other WMD.
        \_ The Taliban came later, but whatever.  Anyway, as the above said,
           this is standard in warfare.  If you bring something to the
           battlefield, the enemy will eventually get their hands on one and
           reverse engineer it.  If you don't bring a new weapon to the battle
           then there was no point in making it, eh?  In addition to the above
           list, I'd like to add the bazooka which the WWII Germans eventually
           captured.  As the story goes, a few German generals got wiped out
           by back blast during a demonstration, but hey, it's just a story.
           \_ My point is not so much about proliferation of technology, as it
              is bound to happen.  I just thought that it's really silly to
              proliferate technologies over muslim fundamental extremist.
                                -- OP

11/2    I just saw Dances with the Wolves for the first time. It made me
        feel very unpatriotic as an American.
        \_ don't be.  Without ethnic cleansing, without White supremacist
           idealogy, there will be no America.  Many view that America today
           is a very different country than 40 years ago (which I personally
           disagree), what disturb me is that great majority of people think
           we were what we are todaycompletely  discredit our racist
           past.
           \_ could you repost this in English please?
              \_ Sounds like a White supremacist to me!
                 \_ I'm not sure what it sounds like but English isn't on
                    the list.  --!the above poster
        \_ End the occupation!  US OUT OF NORTH AMERICA!!!
        \_ Cool!  I love seeing people who suffer White Guilt wallow in their
           own self hatred.  I wasn't here at the time, nor were any of my
           ancestors.  They were getting killed in eastern Europe at the time.
           You going to cry about that?  I'm guessing your white bread
           ancestors were in the vicinity killing my ancestors at the time.
           How about some White Guilt for your crimes against other whites?
           Bah!  Why do I bother?  Just go kill yourself.
           \_ I don't know who is more of an idiot, the OP or you.
           \_ um, did you forget your Prozac today?

11/3    Iraq: Another Vietnam?
        http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB106782123961984600,00.html
        \_ Yes, everything is Vietnam.  I can't wait until the hippie/yuppie
           generation retires and we can put their drug induced buggaboos
           to rest.  Don't trust anyone over 30.
           \_ Gulf War I, I don't think anyone disagrees about that not
              being a Vietnam
              \_ Actually before the war, there was alot of Vietnam talk when
                 people weren't sure if the UN was going to occupy Iraq.
        \_ Groan. The Tet offensive misinterpreted again. It was a big
           victory for the US forces, but came on the heels of LBJ declaring
           the war nearly over and talking possible troop pullback. Instead,
           more troops were deployed and the US was stuck for another five
           years. Iraq is NOT Vietnam. Somalia is NOT Vietnam. Bosnia is NOT
           Vietnam. Grenada, Haiti, Panama ... NOT Vietnam. Damn Boomers.
           \_ yea, but it's looking like the type of urban warfare we have
              stated right from the start that we would try to avoid at all
              cost.
              \_ True, but the article refers to telling the "truth" about
                 Iraq and compares it to "Tet" as if to say "if only the
                 American public knew the TRUTH, we would have won Vietnam."
                 Correspondingly, if America knows the TRUTH about Iraq, we
                 would win. This at a time where the Administration is
                 refusing to release info on everything from energy policy to
                 threat memos concerning 9/11. TRUTH is so subjective.
                 \_ If Americans knew the truth about Iraq we wouldn't be
                    there.
                    \_ If Americans knew the truth, we would've done it right
                       in '91 instead of playing global politic.
                 \_ The TRUTH is out there.
                   \_ so's yermom
                      \_ IFILE!
                         \_ It does my taxes?
                            \_ IRS!
        \_ Where are they going to put the monument to all the dead American
           soldiers? Isn't The Mall getting kind of full???
           \_ Maybe they'll stick some Post-It notes with the names on them
              on the Vietnam Memorial.
           \_ Why should there be?  You do know that the KIAs from WWII don't
              have a monument of any sort, right?

11/3    I'd like to sound a call for more civility and restraint on the
        MOTD.  Over the years I've learned a lot both in technical and
        political matters from this forum.  But lately I find myself not
        wanting to read it anymore due to the overwhelming amount of
        anger and invective.  I understand that some of you may feel
        passionately about an issue, but you are far more likely to
        convince myself and others if you speak calmy and respectfully.
        Patronizing, derogatory, and angry posts may make you feel
        better by allowing you to vent your frustration, but all they
        really accomplish is to upset people and make the world just
        a little bit worse.  In conclusion, feel free to be controversial
        or humorous, or whatever, just tone down the hate.  Thank You.
        \_ I fuckin' love it!  'Can't we all just get along!' started a
           flamewar on MOTD!  Man, that rules!!  <tearfully> I love you guys!
           \_ OMG!  WTF!  LOL!
        \_ If you don't like it, then don't read it. Anyone who takes the
           MOTD as seriously as you do should be dragged out onto the street
           and shot. Anyway, don't you have more important things to do during
           your work day than to actually read the motd and take the shit
           on here seriously? Ever think about the fact that your pre-occupation
           with the MOTD signals that there is something wrong with your own
           state of internal affairs?
        \_ How to spot a liberal: (1) needless preoccupation with others'
           emotional states, (2) overly abstract (and incorrect) deliberations
           about the state of the world becoming better or worse through
           your actions, (3) obsession with 'hate', (4) need to lecture
           others.
           \_ Nice emotional logic there.  I'm REALLY glad you don't typify
              'The Right' or 'Conservatives'.  If 'The Right' spent as much
              time whining about the Other Team as you do, it'd be completely
              useless.
              \_ Emotional logic?  Wtf?  Those are empirical observations,
                 not logical statements.  Why do you care, btw, what typifies
                 'The Right'.
           \_ Sigh.  I'm not preoccupied with your emotional state.
              You can froth at the mouth all you like, but when you do it
              on the MOTD it puts a damper on my good mood.  Also, I
              apologize if it sounded like a lecture; I intended it as a
              request for civility.
              \_ Well, Mr. Civility, I guess I should find it in my heart to
                 froth at the mouth a little more civilly, while you continue
                 to use derogatory language.  I forgot one from the above list:
                 (5) hypocrite.  Wait, I am sorry.  Calling someone a hypocrite
                 is probably hateful and makes the world a little bit worse,
                 while comparing your opponent to a rabid dog is perfectly ok.
        \_ Go to Hell - Dean in 04
        \_ I agree however I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Berkeley
           is a hate filled campus.  Hate is an institutional trait taught in
           the classroom and on campus.  Students are surrounded by it and
           soak it up everyday.  Rational discourse is discouraged from the
           top down.  The motd exists in this hateful environment and reflects
           what has been going on on campus for decades.  The motd is not
           separate from it's hateful campus environment.
                         \_ http://angryflower.com/aposter3.jpg
                            \_ Bob was not nearly angry enough in that strip.
                               Must've been an imposter.
           \_ Mmmmm. I'd much rather be in a more repressive where everyone
              knows their place and wouldn't think twice about saying something
              derisive. Oh, feel the love!
           \_ Transfer to Santa Cruz, where no one is allowed to say anything
              mean to anyone else.
              \_ Bzzt: http://csua.org/u/4vh (Mercury News)
                 ``I don't think it's a town that respects conservative
                 views,'' Larson said. ``They tend to be shouted down. For a
                 town that claims to be very liberal and open-minded, it's
                 turned into something that's kind of mean. . . .

                 ``I get this from a lot of very conservative people. They
                 don't think downtown Santa Cruz is a place where they feel
                 welcome. They get hassled. They feel uncomfortable.''
                  \_ If they want true hassling they should try moving
                     to Iran.  The above must be the weakest most thin
                     skinned conservatives ever.  Keep up the good work!
                        \_ It's a sad state of affairs when we have to compare
                           ourselves to Iran. --Iranian expatriate
                           \_ I thought Iran is actually relatively better
                              off than, let say, Saudi Arabia and other
                              middle eastern nation.
                 \_ downtown is part of the UC? Reread what I said.
                    If you just want a place where everyone agrees with you
                    transfer to Oral Roberts or BYU.
                    \_ you miscontrue what I said.  i don't at all want a place
                       where everyone agrees with me.  but you can disagree
                       with others without spitting in their face, shouting
                       them down, or calling them race/sex/whatever-ist simply
                       for expressing a different point of view.  well, not in
                       Berkeley but that's the point.  it should be that way
                       at a higher place of learning but it isn't at berkeley.
                       there's very minimal intellectual dialog and a whole lot
                       of blind raging screaming ranting going on.
                       \_ Name one online unmoderated discussion forum that
                          has a higher signal to noise ratio.
                          \_ Depends on the day.  The difference here is that
                             anyone can delete anything.  Online no one can
                             delete anything.  Online you can filter for
                             yourself, but not for others.  Also, here you can
                             alter other's posts.  That sort of thing leads to
                             a sort of nastiness that can't exist online.  I
                             can't even imagine what would happen if it was
                             standard policy to alter or delete other people's
                             posts in the typical online forum.  I suppose it
                             would take about 2 seconds before someone wrote a
                             script to auto-delete everything.  That'd sure
                             fix it good.

11/3    Matlab Programming Contest starts tomorrow (tuesday)
        http://www.mathworks.com/contest
        \_ Tomorrow?!? You need to give us more notice for these things.

11/3    What codec should I use to decode .ogm on win32?  thx
        \_ http://www.google.com/search?q=ogm+file+extension

11/3    I'm getting a no space left on device error even though all
        my partitions have plenty of free space. Any ideas?
        \_ you might have a large unlinked file that's still open for writing.
           You can reboot to fix this or use lsof to find which process is
           using that file.
        \_ not sure what/how your OS reports it but you may want to check
           your inodes.
           \_ Solaris 9, my system hasn't been rebooted in 240 days. A Sun
                guy told me switch to directio, but I don't see how that has
                anything to do this with.
           \_ Solaris 9, my system rebooted last week. thanks.
                \_ Check the write permission on the devices.
                \_ sun support just isn't what it used to be... directio?
           You can reboot to fix this or use lsof to find which process is using
           that file.
                \_ Check the write permission on the devices.
                \_ Check inode count like the above person said.

11/3    Is there a site similar to http://parents.berkeley.edu for the south bay
        area?  I think the site is really useful, especially the medical
        professional recommendations and stories.  Thanks.
        \_ motd subtle-grammatical-error corrector
           \_ I don't think this can be considered a correction... the
              sentence was grammatically correct before: "I think the site
              really useful..."  This grammar bullshit is really getting
              out of hand.
              \_ if it were "I consider the site really useful", I'd agree.
                 \_ forgive, he's EFL.
                    \_ oh, definitely.  My point in correcting was
                       distinguishing between subtle points of dialect (which
                       I'm happy to ignore or clarify) and the kinds of verb
                        conjugation problems / plurality disagreement
                        that plague, apparently, only one unnamed Sodan.
        \_ Maybe check stanford's site / Craig's List for a start

11/2    Poll. I like the term:
        censor nazi:
        censorbot:
        motd custodian:
        ass:
        jwang: .
        A Real American Patriot: .

11/2    Fuck you censorbot.
        20 soldiers died today because of your hero's idiotic politics.
        \_ Criticism of Our Great Leader is not permitted.
           \_ and you think  you are doing your country a favor by censoring
              criticism on our leader?
              \_ Boy, are you dumb.

11/3    I thought aaron was the only grammar cop on the motd.  Are there
        more morons like him?  The loser below who claims to speak Mandarin
        sounds like aaron.
        \_ not me (and fuck you) --aaron
        \_ I don't correct grammar, but I appreciate those who do.
        \_ Our name is legion.
           \_ Get the frickin quote correct already.  This was posted
              2 weeks ago.  It's "My name is lesion."