Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:March:16 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2004/3/16 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:12694 Activity:high
3/16    If you knew someone was a spammer (a stranger), would you
        want to beat the person up?
        \_ was it good spam or bad spam?
           \_ can any spam be good?
              \_ spam & eggs. yum.
        \_ I'd throw a can of SPAM through their window.
           \_ And waste a perfectly good can of spam?
              \_ there's an infinite supply. no worries.
        \_ Here is an interesting question to full time spammers (people who
           get paid writing and sending spam). WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING
           KNOWING THAT YOU'VE ANNOYED 99% OF THE PEOPLE?
           \_ I'm laughing on my way to the bank with the fortune I made from
              the other 1%.
              \_ I believe if just 1 in 100,000 respond, they profit. And there
                 is no shortage of people who will do anything for a bigger
                 penis.
              \_ Are you on the ROKSO list of known spammers?
            \_ Are there full time spammer on csua?  I remember at least one
               member had a list of all soda email addresses on his web page.
                \ REALLY?  I hope he was squished, right?
        \_ I would want to kill them. I believe in vigilante action against
           spammers.
2004/3/16 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:12695 Activity:high
3/16    I posted this last week, but it received no serious responses.
        Does anyone have any experience/advice with using air couriers
        for international travel? Is it a reliable thing to use? Thanks.
        \_ what do you mean by using "air couriers"?  back when I was
           at cal, several of my friends travel "courier" which means
           that they can't bring any check-in lugguage.  the space
           was sold to a courier service instead.  I believe my friends
           don't need to touch whatever luggage that is being
           couriered at all and are not responsible for what is being
           couriered.  The courier company already arranged things
           with the airline directly.  It was many years before 911,
           even though I don't see why 911 must impact this.
                \_ Yes, this is the service I was talking about. Did
                   they share any advice/thoughts on travelling like
                   that? -op
                   \_ they seem pretty satisfied, mainly with the
                      price.  Instead of around $900, they paid
                      like $500.
         \_ Here are your eyes.
2004/3/16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:12696 Activity:nil
3/16    In perl how do I make it so that it checks for variable undeclared
        because it's really annoy how it ignores errors like that. ok thx
        \_ #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
           use strict;
        \_ I prefer #!/usr/bin/env perl  and   $^W=1; (or $WARNING is clearer)
2004/3/16 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:12697 Activity:nil
3/16    How do I tell spamassassin that if it sees certain subject, To:
        field, or whatever, to increase the number of spam points?
        \_ Put it in your user_prefs. RTFM.
2004/3/16-17 [Consumer/Audio, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:12698 Activity:nil
3/16    Any recommendations on stereo installation places?
        I want to get a new stereo and a DVD player installed.
        \_ For your car?
           \_ for my asshole. -op
2004/3/16 [Reference/Tax] UID:12699 Activity:high
3/16    Bring back the car tax:
        http://csua.org/u/6g5
        \_ Great!  Ride Bike!  Use Linux!
        \_ No no no! We must lower all taxes to 0% and only then will we be
        able to spend infinite amounts of money on combatting terrorism!
           \_ It's too bad that you're trying so hard to destroy what could
              be a good discussion.  The tax rates, what gets taxed, and how
              the money is spent is a core issue that matters to everyone on
              a daily basis and you're pissing all over it like a baby.  Oh
              well, this topic is dead.  thanks.
              \_ Have you ever seen a political debate on the motd that didn't
                 degenerate into garbage?  I think he was just saving us all
                 some time.
                 \_ I have seen lots of good political debates on the motd.
                    Some of us are interested in that sort of thing, you know.
                    \_ Really?  Are you reading a different motd than me?
                       There may have been one or two but 99% of them
                       quickly degenerate into (or even start with) name
                       calling.
        \_ Why is this an issue?  The car tax was like that for most of the
           time.
2004/3/16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:12700 Activity:nil
3/16    Need a dos batch script to launch of a bunch of executables.
        How do I tell the executables to run in the background?
        \_ DOS doesn't support background processes.
           Maybe the "start" command is sufficient for your needs, though.
           \_ that's it exactly.  thanks.
        \_ You might want to see if "4dos" and "4cmd" still exist if you're
           doing more than trivial 'batch programming'.
2004/3/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12701 Activity:high
3/16    THE FRENCH WAR FOR OIL
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1098617/posts
        \_ Yay, an op-ed from the NY Post! By the way, why does freep get
           away with re-publishing thousands of articles on its own site?
           Isn't that copyright violation?
           \_ "Kenneth R. Timmerman is a senior writer for Insight magazine".
              BTW, you wouldn't know this but more New Yorkers read the Post
              than read the Times.  That probably doesn't matter to you since
              those are just the ugly masses of humanity.
              \_ quantity equals quality now huh? I see a lot of people reading
                 the front pages of Nat'l Enquirer and People in supermarkets.
        \_ Timmerman... That's a Jewish name, right?
           \_ I can feel the hate oozing from my monitor.  Do you attend
              KKK rallies too?  Beat up queers?  Attack blacks?
              \_ No, no... You've got it wrong.  Anti-semitism is PC
                 these days.
                 \_ Oh, sorry, my error.  I didn't realise it was "in" and
                    cool to hate Jews again.  I thought we were done with
                    that in the 40s.
                    \_ It is not. The Isrealis are just trying to convince
                       you that disagreeing with Isreal makes one anti-Semitic.
                       \_ No, the motd is covered with anti-Semitic hateful
                          statements that have nothing to do with Israel.  They
                          all come from people espousing leftist noise.  That
                          leads me to believe that the left hates Jews.
                          \_ How do you know where they come from? Maybe
                             they come from Right Wing Nazis.
        \_ Where are those WMD anyway? Could it be that both sides simply
           were fighting for self-interest? How dare those Frogs try and
           look out for themselves first! That is an American prerogative.
           \_ Everyone fights for self interest.  Why else fight?  And what
              is a 'prerogitate'?
              \_ I corrected it, but you changed it back. Boy, aren't
                 you clever.
                 \_ Shrug, whatever.  It was like that when I hit 'save'.
                    Use motdedit next time.
                    \_ I always use motdedit.
        \_ racist!
2004/3/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:12702 Activity:nil
3/16    "It--my view of--of the situation was that he--he had--we--we believe,
        the best intelligence that we had and other countries had and
        that--that we believed and we still do not know--we will know."
        -- Donald Rumsfeld 3/15/04
        \_ I like poking him in the ribs and listening to him squeal. Hey
           inflamed gallbaldder boy, squeal some more!! <poke> <poke>
                \_ You realize that was ashcroft?
        \_ there's that Princeton education talking...
        \_ Then again Saddam's 20,000 strong nuclear weapons program
           discovered after the first Gulf War was a big surprise to...
           Let's hear what Kerry had to say from the Congressional Record:
           "I will be voting to give the President of the United States
           the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm
           Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal
           of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and
           grave threat to our security."
           - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
          "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent
          with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary
          actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile
          strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
          the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons
          of mass destruction programs."
          - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin,
          Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
2004/3/16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12703 Activity:nil
3/16    Is there a program that will take a hostname -- or better yet, a list
        from stdin -- and return the ipaddress?  I want to write a script
        that will taken a human readable file using hostnames and generate
        a config file for some software by substituting ipaddresses.
        \_ tcsh% foreach i (`cat filename`)
                 host $i
                 end
           You can pipe the output of host through grep/sed/cut/awk/whatever
           --scotsman
           \_ I was familiar with host, and thank you for the suggestions,
              but as you see, host returns a bunch of other things too.
              I have used host for this purpose but I was wondering if there
              was a program that didnt have all the verbosity about MX info.
              \_ You are a very lazy person.
                 \_ Beyond lazy.  learn to use grep/awk/cut/splice, etc, and
                    you will be able to accomplish simple tasks like this
                    without bothering motd. --scotsman
              \_ RTFM!
                 \- Helo, host is ok, but I'd be interested in the
                    opposite of this program:
                    -rwxr-xr-x psb  Oct  8  1999 /csua/bin/ip2hostname (hf)
                    as well. a foreach loop in the shell is not a reasonable
                    way to process a 1000 of these ... and it would be nice
                    to have an inline filter like ip2hostname. Maybe I'll
                    write it "one of these days" but I am lazy too. It would
                    be great if there was something like this around. --psb
                    \- although since you cant quite neatly match hostnames,
                       the hostname2ip would be less powerful ... like only
                       match hosts at beg of line. maybe something can be
                       done with true FQDNs. --psb
                       \_ http://he.fi/slookup/README --scotsman
                    \_ a foreach loop in the shell is totally doable if you
                       know how to read in a line at a time from a file in a
                       shell.  your problem isn't your ignorance, that can be
                       cured with effort.  your problem is laziness.
2004/3/16-17 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12704 Activity:kinda low
3/16    Is anyone in the CSUA presently living in any of the North Side
        coops on Ridge or across the street from Soda?  If so, please email me.
        I need a current coop member with clue as a point of contact to
        facilitate bringing *massive* bandwidth to the coops. -dans
        \_ Where were you 10 years ago when *I* needed you?
           \_ Hobnobbing with the sexy technoelite.
              \_ Pretty much, yes.  That's why I'm in a position to do this
                 now. -dans
        \_ You really want to do business with people who dont pay their bills?
           \_ If it gets paid by the central office, there's no problem
              \_ Yes it is a problem.  Like I said, why do business with people
                 [Yes, yes, very clever of you to keep replacing neocons
                  with jews, very amusing, now fuck off.]
                   \_ this little side bit about jews & neocons is a motdedit
                      merge failure, right?
                 who don't pay their bills?
                 \_ CO pays the bills on time.  Don't confuse the USCA (very
                    lucrative/well funded organization that provides housing
                    to students at a reasonable cost) with the actual people
                    living in the coops.  You think the coops are really self
                    governed?
                    \_ I was there for several years, served on the board,
                       several committees, met with their lawyers, george
                       proper, and several other jack offs.  I know exactly
                       how the coops are governed.  Another concern is how
                       you'll bring wiring into the house without it being
                       stolen.  My house bought *1* cable tv connection and
                       *everyone* had cable in their room.  How do you think
                       that happened?  And yes my house paid the *1* bill on
                       time every month without mommy's help in CO.
                       \_ I don't think you're suggesting people would steal
                          CAT-5.  If you're suggesting co-opers would steal
                             \_ Then the co-ops can pay for every room.  Like
                                90% of everyone would use it anyway.
                    living in the coops.  You think the coops are really self
                    governed?
                          service, that seems pointless.  The co-op could just
                          pay UCB for access for the whole building and then
                          everyone could use it.
                          \_ Nah, they'd charge per room like everything else.
                 \_ I was saying the CO pays their bills, but the individual
                    houses might be run by fuck-ups.  So if the billing goes to
                    CO it will be paid on-time.  Their main finance person is
                    Margie Greene <mgreene@usca.org>  Talk to her and she'll
                    point you to other people who can make this happen.
2004/3/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:12705 Activity:nil
3/16    debian newbie question. so i compiled a new kernel (2.4.18,
        2.4.19, 2.6.0) but when i boot with it, the modules no longer
        work, if i link /lib/modules/.... to the correct kernel name,
        it complains that the modules are not compiled for 2.4.18-bf2.
        So what is the correct way to try a new kernel on linux for
        debian? thx.
        \_ In general, compiling source requires "make bzImage;make modules;
           make modules_install;make bzlilo(or whatever you do to let your
           boot loader load the kernel). make modules_install will install
           the modules ot /lib/modules.  The debian way is make_kpkg
           kernel_images to create the deb package and install using dpkg.
           \_ you mean make-kpkg clean; make-kpkg kernel_image;
              cd ..; dpkg -i <kernel_package>
              \_ exactly.  which boot manager are you using?
           \_ another newbie question, i ran make modules, all works. then
              I ran make modules_install, I got

find kernel -path '*/pcmcia/*' -name '*.o' | xargs -i -r ln -sf ../{} pcmcia
if [ -r System.map ]; then /sbin/depmod -ae -F System.map  2.4.19; fi
depmod: *** Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.4.19/kernel/drivers/net/wan/wanpipe.o
depmod:         register_wan_device_Rsmp_25269802
depmod:         lock_adapter_irq_Rsmp_7e6ae263
depmod:         wanrouter_encapsulate_Rsmp_a5336dd5
depmod:         unlock_adapter_irq_Rsmp_1e7b9a43
depmod:         unregister_wan_device_Rsmp_0ebe03d1
depmod:         wanrouter_type_trans_Rsmp_5cb5fb99
make: *** [_modinst_post] Error 1

             Is this something to be ignored or??

        \_ btw, you may want to use some newer kernels that don't have the
           variety of local exploits reported in recent weeks.
           \_ such as? what version do you recommend?
              \_ like, say, the latest? or at least get a version with the
                 backported patches.
                 \_ get the source for 2.4.25-1 if you want to use 2.4
                    \_ exchange known security holes for unknown bugs/holes.
                       \_ or exchange new unknown bugs/holes for old
                          unknown bugs/holes.
           \_ use the 2.4.18-1-foo debian kernel. (where foo is your
              processor) When linux kernel exploits are found, the debian
              security team back-ports the patches and release an updated
              2.4.18 kernel-image. This way you don't have to deal with any
              of the hassles involved with compiling a kernel. nor do you
              have to wait for testing/unstable to releases the next kernel
              version. and by using the same kernel version, you're not
              forced to upgrade libraries and api's required by the new
              kernel.
              \_ it's not really a big hassle, once you've learned how.
                 and debian's kernel is not going to be nearly as optimized
                 as one you build yourself. ergo, the whole point of wanting
                 to build your own kernel.
2004/3/16-17 [Recreation/Shopping] UID:12706 Activity:nil
3/16    what to do in Austin, Tx? going there in 2 weeks for a weekend.
        \_ Downtown is awesome, you can spend all your nights up and down
        Sixth Street where all the bars/night clubs are within walking
        distance of each other. Pete's Dualing Piano Bar is my personal fav.
        \_ yes, downtown is awsome...however if you want to see something
           awsome you can't see anywhere else, go see the bats.
        \_ I highly recommend the Hooters there.
        \_ If you're a bargain hunter and feel like killing off one day on
           shopping, consider going to San Marcos shopping center, right
           outside of Austin (I think it's either exit 200 or 100, whichever is
           closer to Austin on the road to San Antonio). Lots of factory outlet
           stores are there. They sell mostly clothing but there are many other
           types of goods available there too. Prices are low and the choice is
           good. Most of them close at 6pm.
           \_ My memory of this shopping center was that it was like every
              other factory outlet mall, except near Austin.  Was there
              anything special you remember about it?
2004/3/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12707 Activity:nil
3/16    It was all based on lies by a couple of people.
        Just like I told you a year ago.
        http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/8197462.htm
        \_ There's a guy sighted in this articles who's name is
           "Knight Ridder."  Is that a joke or what?
           \_ "Knight Ridder" is the company that owns a bunch of newspapers
               in the bay area. They are refering to the new agency. You're
               thinking of "Knight Rider"
        \_ What the... this article claims "No Iraqi Scud Missles have
           been found yet."  Hoookaay....
2004/3/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12708 Activity:nil
3/16    A tribute to Rachel Corrie.  God bless her soul.
        http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004796
        And a big 'fuck you' to who ever has been erasing this.  You hater!
        \_ Pot. Kettle. Black.
           \_ But the difference is, I'd take Jews over Palestinians any
              day.
              \_ I know you would because you are prejudiced SOB who
                 sees no value in Arab life. I would take a good person
                 of any religion or nationality. Too bad you are too
                 blinded by your hate to see that there is good and
                 bad on both sides.
                 \_ There is bad on both sides but I'd take a democracy that
                    provides full freedom to women over fascist dictatorship
                    that murders 'collaborators' on the stree in cold blood
                    with no trial and conducts mock elections when they bother
                    to pretend to have them, or sends their *children* out
                    on the street carrying *suicide bomb belts*!  I'll respect
                    Arab life when they start to respect Arab life.
                    \_ It's not a Democracy when almost half of those under
                       its rule have no vote. The Isrealis have killed
                       more Palestinian civilians than visa versa. Your
                       worldview is seriously twisted by the lies you
                       have been fed.
                       \_ there are more dead palestinians that israelis. you
                          seriously believe every palestinian death was an
                          innocent civilian?  no, the numbers all get lumped
                          into a "score board" with only 2 numbers.  It's a
                          democracy and it's the only one in the entire
                          middle east.  You have feelings for the palestinians?
                          Not even other Arabs give a shit about them.  Get
                          real.  They don't even care about their own children.
                          \_ There are at least four classes of citizen.
                             Only Jews have full rights:
                             http://csua.org/u/6gh
                             How do you call that a Democracy?
                 \_ Not so much.  It's just the Jews have, and continue to
                    make, a large number of contributions to the world at
                    large.  Not to meantion they haven't attempted large
                    scale genocide since about... oh... 5000BC.
                    \_ Your celebration of the death of a brave and
                       noble human being who selflessly tried to
                       save a few innocent's homes just shows how far
                       your hatred and depravity has lowered you to.
                       I honestly think you need psychological help.
                       \_ Did you even read the link?  She was trying to save
                          'homes' that were being used to move weapons into
                          the Gaza strip so the Palestinians could make more
                          bombs belts to strap on 12 year olds.  You honestly
                          need to learn to read before resorting to ad hominen.
                          \_ That is a lie. Your entire link is ad hominem.
                             She died trying to save the home of Dr. Samir
                             Nasrallah who has never been charged by the
                             IDF of any crime.
             http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/09/ma_497_01.html
             http://www.yesmagazine.org/26courage/halper.htm
                       \_ What's a lie?  That 12 year olds are carrying bomb
                          belts?  That weapons are flowing under tunnels from
                          the Sinai to Gaza?  Give it up.  I'm not even going
                          to waste the network bits to read the leftist trash
                          from links like mother jones.  You might as well be
                          posting from the democraticunderground site.
                          \_ The claim that Rachel Corrie was protecting
                             a tunnel is a lie. And you are a lying and
                             twisted fuck who seriously needs help.
                       \_ Hmmm.. Maybe you're right.  I was thinking that
                          supporting terrorists that kill civilians made
                          her enemy support personnel.  Maybe all she
                          really deserves is a Darwin award.
                          \_ Because all Palestinians are terrorist scum and
                             must be cleansed, right?
                \_ Ok, I admit it.  There's wrong on both sides.  But it's
                   going to continue until:
                   A) The Palestinians successfully kill all the Jews.
                   B) The Jews get tired of trying to put up with them and
                      finally kill all the Palestinians.
                   C) The Palestinians learn to police themselves and stop
                      encouraging their children to wear bomb belts.
                   THIS IS A WAR, and one side is totally fanatical about
                   killing the other, and will not settle for anything
                   less.  Civilians die in wars too, it's a sad truth.
                   I'm sorry I'm the one who has to break it to you.
                   \_ The Israelis are willing to have peace.  The other side
                      only wants pieces.  Has the PLO taken that bit out of
                      their charter that says their goal is to eliminate
                      Israel and kill all the Jews?
                      \_ They removed the part that called for the
                         destruction of Isreal years ago. They never
                         called the death of all Jews. That is more
                         of your propaganda.
                   \_ It's not a war, it's an military occupation that has
                      lasted 40 years. Israel builds settlements and so forth
                      regardless of terrorist activity.
                   \_ Because IT IS WAR, in your words, it is okay to
                      celebrate the death of a non-violent innocent?
        \_ Need I say, that this URL is pretty hateful?
2004/3/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12709 Activity:nil
3/16    "It--mah' view uh--uh de situashun wuz dat he--he had--we--we recon',
        de best intelligence dat we had and oda' countries had and
        dat--dat we recon'd and we still do not know--we gots'ta know."
        -- Donald Rumsfeld 3/15/04
        \_ I like poking him in the ribs and listening to him squeal. Hey
           inflamed gallbaldder boy, squeal some more!! <poke> <poke>
                \_ You realize that was ashcroft?
                   \_ No, he doesn't; he's an idiot.
        \_ there's that Princeton education talking...
        \_ Then again Saddam's 20,000 strong nuclear weapons program
           discovered after the first Gulf War was a big surprise to...
           Let's hear what Kerry had to say from the Congressional Record:
           "I will be voting to give the President of the United States
           the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm
           Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal
           of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and
           grave threat to our security."
           - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
                \_ Funny, Kerry seems to be the only one to believe that
                   there were WMDs.  Even Bush said (usually), only that
                   they were being "assembled", not that they were
                   stockpiled.
                \_ I don't really care what Kerry said. Maybe he's an idiot
                   and was duped. The point is that the intelligence data
                   did not match the adminstration's talk, and Rummy's
                   comical verbal dancing is the result. It is fact that
                   the administration suppressed contrary intelligence and
                   presented their agenda with certainty before the public,
                   and even invented ridiculous stuff like the niger thing.
                   \_ It is opinion that anything was suppressed.
          "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent
          with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary
          actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile
          strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
          the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons
          of mass destruction programs."
          - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin,
          Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
          \_ Hahahah 1998. How many chemical weapons have a shelf
             life of 5 years?
             \_ All of them.  Disprove it.  And until we went there we had no
                idea if *new* ones were being made or not.  Scott Ritter said
                the WMD programs were only 90-95% destroyed when they left in
                1998.  That means *not* 100% destroyed and thus still capable
                of making WMD.  Based on Scott Ritter's info alone we had
                reason enough to go in.
                \_ http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15854
                   Yawn. Another lie of yours exposed.
                   \_ alternet?  oh please.  I've seen Ritter say on live TV
                      before it was cool to say there was nothing there that
                      there was something there.  That was before he took $300k
                      in Saddam's blood money, btw.
                       \_There's no need to attack the source, this is the
                         exactly the same type of idiocy that _Time_ or any
                         other "reputable" news magazine would regurgitate.
                         \_ And the DIA and CIA.
                       \_ So you admit that you lied when you said that
                          all chemical agents have a shelf life of 5 years?
                          http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960705/73919_01.htm
        \_ You understand that the "uhms" and "ahs" and other pauses and gaps
           are normally cleaned up for *all* politicians and other government
           figures.  By putting them back in you're not making him look stupid
           to educated people who actually understand how the media works.  I'm
           sure this impresses your ignorant friends, though.  Watch CSPAN for
           a few minutes.
           \_ Okay, why don't you assemble it into something intelligent.
              He only stumbled that much because he had no response.
              \_ remove all uhms and ahs.  next!
                 \_ there are no uhms or ahs in the quote, retard.
2004/3/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12710 Activity:very high
3/16    This is a perfect example of what I was saying the other day about
        why I don't want my President to be tremendously popular in foreign
        nations.  This doesn't in any way endear me to Kerry or anyone else
        who gets this sort of high praise from foreigners.  Remember, everyone
        has puts their own interests first, yours second, if at all.
        http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2004/03/15&ID=Ar00104
        \_ shrug, Bush is a moron anyway.  Can't blame them for liking
           the less idiotic candidate.
           \_ Call me when Kerry has an opinion on something.
           \_ Kerry is nothing special.  He's done nothing of note in the
              Senate.  He's an elitist pig and his campaign was only able to
              just pull up even with Bush after 8 months of free Bush bashing
              during the (D)em primaries.  You think his ratings will
              suddenly improve now that Bush is fighting back?  You think
              to know him is to love him and his ratings will somehow go up
              as time goes on?  This election is a referendum on Bush.  He
              could be running against any loser/winner and it wouldn't
              matter.  Kerry's running mate won't matter.  Debates won't
              matter.  In November we'll all find out for real if voters want
              or do not want Bush and his policies.  The desires of foreign
              leaders, their people, the UN, and non-voters are unimportant.
              \_ And when the bill for Iraq pops up again, I'm sure those
                 foreigners will pop in a few hundred million to help cover
                 the tens of billion dollars the US is spending there. Who
                 cares what they think?
                 \_ A few hundred million is *nothing* compared to the 160
                    *billion* we'll have put into Iraq and Afghanistan by
                    this summer.  The price of their 'friendship' is too high.
                    Do the math.
                    \_ foreginers pretty much foot the bill for the entire
                       gulf war one.  this iraq war two is illegal and immoral.
                       US is a very bad friend in asking its allies to support
                       its illegal and immoral war.  it's right to refuse
                       instead of succumbing to us pressures and bribes.
        \_ Yes, because having the world despise Bush has helped the US so much.
           \_ If they loved him it wouldn't matter.  Foreign intelligence
              services (including France, Germany and Russia) are still
              working very closely with ours.  The French have 200 elite
              special forces guys working closely with ours on the Afghanistan
              Pakistan border looking for bin Laden conducting active missions
              and the leaders of other Muslim countries that should hate us
              according to your theories such as Saudi Arabia are working with
              us and actively tracking down and killing terrorists where ever
              they find them.  How exactly would good Bush PR around the
              glone help?
              \_ So the whole Iraq thing doesn't count anymore?
                 \_ What are you talking about?  What do you mean by "doesn't
                    count"?  Huh?  I honestly don't understand what you're
                    getting at.
2004/3/16-17 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:12711 Activity:nil
3/16    somebody tell rms that http://www.gnu.org is down.
        \_ you can login as rms/rms to fix it yourself.
           \_ Permission denied.
              \_ holy shit!  you killed http://gnu.org!!!!
                 \_ You bastards!
2004/3/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:12712 Activity:high
3/16    New York Times/CBS poll: 11% think Kerry is a conservative, 12% think
        Bush is a liberal.
       http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/15/opinion/polls/main606465.shtml
        \_ which really means between 12 and 23 percent of those polled are
           ignorant morons.
           \_ Yup. Which is probably the biggest problem. The leader is elected
              based on television personality, and soundbite carpetbombing.
              A truly wise leader would probably bore people, and probably
              would avoid the job and the associated bullshit in the first
              place.
              \_ A truly wise leader isn't a technocrat or paper pusher.  It
                 takes leadership to lead.  Carter != leader.  Reagan = leader.
                 GHB != leader.  BC = leader.  GWB = leader.  Kerry != leader.
                 If personality weren't important we could get a computer to
                 do it.
                 \_ ob: Hitler was a leader too. Having a TV personality isn't
                    a requirement to be an effective leader. It's only a
                    requirement in the USA to manipulate public opinion. China
                    for example doesn't need a dancing figurehead to make
                    forceful national decisions. More to the point, leadership
                    doesn't go hand in hand with wisdom.
                    \_ Not a good troll. You just combine catch/key words and
                       bad formatting.  A lazy troll.
                    \_ I'll feed you the cookie: China is a heavy iron fisted
                       dictatorship that rules by fear and force.  They don't
                       rule at the whim of their populace.  That's a good
                       model that would allow us to have wise but zero
                       charisma leaders.  How about GWB declare martial law,
                       disband the government and do what he thinks is best
                       instead of poll following and wasting his time trying
                       to answer all those annoying reporter questions?  Let's
                       try it for a few years and see if our country ends up
                       doing as well as a nice place like China.
                       \_ what gives you the impression that Bush answers
                          annoying questions from reporters?  His press
                          conferences are 100% scripted.
                          \_ duh, all press conferences are.  what is new about
                             that?  you're right, press conferences are
                             controlled so let's use the Chinese system.
                             \_ I'm just wondering what you're saying.  When
                                does Bush answer "annoying reporter questions",
                                if his press conferences are controlled?
        \_ are u surprised?  lots of the lib. vs con. stuff is nonsense.
           Here is something neither of them would like to admit:  GWB is a lot
           like BC as a president, minus the libido.  The unilateralist
           interventionist PAX Amerika approach was started by BC, not GWB.
           BC = GWB + sex drive.
           \_ UR so KOOL saiing AMERIKA w/a K!!!  hahahahahaha!!!!11
           \_ and that's why I may not be voting for bush this fall.  unlike
              my liberal counterparts i don't froth and hate blindly just
              because there's a (d) near a name nor do I fall in sycophantic
              enthrallment to anyone with an (r).  both BC and GWB are bad for
              the country, just in different ways.  the problem for me is that
              kerry is like BC but stupid and ineffective and elitist.  well
              actually i guess that makes kerry nothing like BC.  -conservative
           \_ The corruption in BC's administration was unparalled in the 20th
              century.  The DNC has returned millions in campaign contribution
              from the Communist PLA.  How many contributions were never
              caught? China has all of our nuclear weapon designs and
              literally thousands of front companies performing industrial
              espionage.  What was Billy Bob's N. Korea policy - send his coke
              head brother there on a tour.Between militarizing the IRS,
              Forest Service, and other agencies, ignoring five or six
              terrorist attacks, Waco, Elian, demoralization of the military,
              etc. etc. BC was the second worst president with a tie for 1st
              between FDR and Wilson.  I remember posting links here in 2000
              describing the 'diversity quilts' and PC other policies
              Clinton's administration was pushing in the CIA.  We know now
              the results of these 'policies'.  William Casey met with BC once
              in the two years he was head of CIA.  On the domestic agenda,
              yes GWB is similar to BC. [motd formatd was here]  [then the real
              motd formatd fixed it for real]
              \_ Whoah. I got sprayed with spittle just reading this onscreen.
                 \_ Why bother posting if you have nothing to say?
              \_ The fact that you think FDR was the worst president ever says
                 a lot about your mindset.
                 \_ Yes and pointing that out says nothing about the poster,
                    or your differing opinions.  Your implied assumption that
                    FDR = good and anti-FDR = insane says you really haven't
                    read your history or studied the long term social costs of
                    FDR's programs or actually the abuse of their growth and
                    continued existence long past their useful life span.
                    \_ Anyone who can't find some good in him has a problem.
                       You don't have to love him, but there must be something
                       you liked.
                       \_ There is 'some' good in everyone, mostly.  That
                          doesn't make them a good president or mean they had
                          good policies, or more specifically in this case mean
                          that their policies were good beyond the time period
                          they were written and should have been kept and
                          expanded into the horror they've become today.
                          \_ So you're blaming FDR because later presidents
                             didn't end his programs when they outlived their
                             usefulness?  How many federal programs come with
                             a sunset provision?
2004/3/16 [Uncategorized] UID:29871 Activity:nil
3/15    Do animals instinctively know not to look into the sun? I wonder how
        many of them just stare at it some time and have blind spots the rest
        of their lives.
        \_ because it hurts so they dont?  because if they did theyd go blind
           and get darwined out? for the same reason human infants dont.
2004/3/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29872 Activity:nil
3/16    Whee!  Everyone hates us and the Morrocans and Jordanians all want
        to blow us up:
        http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206
        \_ Bring it on!
        \_ we should tactical nuke the pakistan/aghan border
           \_ There would be much time, and little to do.  But...ah...with
              ze proper breeding techniques, and a ratio of zay...ten females
              to each male...I would guess zat zey could zen work their way
              back to ze present gross national product within, zay, twenty
              years.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2004:March:16 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>