Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:20 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2003/10/20-21 [Reference/Religion] UID:10694 Activity:high
10/19   Has anyone ever heard of "The Landmark Forum"?  My friend has strongly
        recommended that I attend their classes.  I have heard of mostly good
        things about it.  However, I think they might be bias.  Anyone here
        has any experiences and/or comments?
        \_ I have had, at current count, six of my friends go through Landmark
           or one of its equivalents. My conclusion is that it's "mostly
           harmless". They've all gone through the same stage of intense
           enthusiasm followed about a year or two later by retrospection. I
           think it is very cult-ish and their focus on parents is monocultural
           hocum but it did really help some of my more stressed our friends
           find a kind of grip on everyday life and made them easier to hang
           around with. -- ulysses
           \_ Before or after you clubbed them in the head a few times?
              \_ After. --ulysses
        \_ http://www.100megsfree4.com/apostate
        \_ It's just "est", repackaged under a different name. - danh
           \_ est.  70s-80s era self help movement with odd cultish
              aspects.  The founder fled the country and then his
              brother took over and renamed it 'The Landmark Forum'.
              I remember reading about a lot of Microsoft employees
              who were into it which made me happy.  go read
              http://skepdic.com/est.html - danh
           \_ Eastern Standard Time?
           \_ Electric Shock Therapy!
        \_ The father of a girl I dated was a speaker for this and really
           into it... it always seemed like a bit of a crock to me... I
           found this to be an interesting account of one session: (albeit
           from a jesus freak)
              http://tektonics.org/est.html
           btw, her father's name was "Alan Cahn" (mentioned in the article)
        \_ A cult is a cult is a cult.  If that's really your friend you
           would do something to help them escape.
        \_ A friend of mine went.  She loved it.  She thought it was the
           answer to life, love, and everything.  She then started getting all
           her friends to go to help them (even if they didn't want helping).
           When she tried to get my g/f to go, my g/f finally relucantly
           agreed.  My g/f was asked to not attend again when she kept
           questioning everything they said.  Sounds like a cult (or at least
           a pyramid scheme that feeds on peoples low self-esteem) to me.  If
           it does help people, great, but not everyone needs to be helped!!
        \_ If people want spiritual help, why can't they seek out the local
           church instead of going to these new age nonsense?  Jesus is the
           one true God.  Jesus will help you and save you.  Put your faith
           on Jesus and no one else.
           \_ I just love you guys!
           \_ I thought the Nicene Creed said Jesus was NOT God?
              \_ Of one being with the father.
                 \_ How about you actually try to explain that? The whole
                    son of god, is god, dying somehow affecting sins, etc.?
                    \_ Talk to the Pope.  This is the motd.
                    \_ are you honestly curious or just trolling?
                       \_ I'm trolling. Because they can't explain it. None
                          of it makes any sense whatsoever. The only way to
                          accept it is to just shut off your brain. The same
                          idiots watch that "crossing over" garbage. Yeah,
                          people's dead relatives have nothing better to do
                          than pathetically attempt to communicate trite
                          health advice and whatnot.
                          \_ the only reason i'm helping you now, zaphod
                             is that i can't bear the thought of you and your
                             disreputable freinds slouching around up here...
        \_ I loved it. It was much better than "Cats." I'm going to see it
           again and again.
           \_ I thought the Nicean (sp?) Creed said Jesus was NOT God?
                          \_ I believe in God and Jesus Christ.
                             I do not believe in John Edward's Crossing
                             Over.  There is a level of faith
                             which you need to have (God).  right now, maybe
                             you just don't understand or do not have
                             the Faith yet.  Nothing wrong with that
                             right now.  Just hope a good person
                             can introduce you to it all.
                             \_ Ok, I'll bite.  I'm one of the few real
                                atheists here who isn't offended by Christians
                                telling me i don't *yet* have Faith.  I don't
                                care that you wish others will find the same
                                Faith as you.  The same can be said of the
                                Linux crowd and they're much more obnoxious
                                about it and smelly as well.  What I don't
                                understand is why do you assume that others
                                will, in time, come around to your way of
                                thinking as a matter of fact?  Perhaps some
                                of us have our beliefs firmly grounded in
                                our own self exploration and will *never* come
                                around your way.  And why your way?  Why not
                                any of the umpteen other major and minor
                                religions and philosophies on the planet?  What
                                gets me about the religious is that all of you
                                take it on faith that your way is the one true
                                way but none of you have any reason to believe
                                so beyond old hand-me-down stories and books
                                or scrolls that have either been retranslated
                                a few dozen times or we can barely read the
                                langauges of today.  What's up with that?  I
                                hope you're a real Christian and not someone
                                mocking it because I'd like to get a real
                                response.
                                \_ So, who introduced you to the atheist
                                   religion?  -- agnostic
                                   \_ atheist, agnostic, whatever. they're
                                      essentially the same thing. what do
                                      you call someone who believes god may
                                      or may not exist, that we may or may
                                      not be able to find out whether or not
                                      he exists, and that even if he does
                                      and we do, he probably doesn't concern
                                      himself too much with us anyway?
                                      \_ It is not essentially the same thing.
                                         An agnostic is someone who does not
                                         have enough information to comment
                                         on the existence of God.  An atheist
                                         is someone who believes he does
                                         (but doesn't).  I am very surprised
                                         people confuse the two.  As far as
                                         philosophical commitments, atheism
                                         is closer to theism than agnosticism.
                                           -- agnostic
                                         \_ Nice explanation.    -mice

                                         \_ Oh bullshit. Yes, it's true that
                                            one cannot prove the nonexistence
                                            of something. Especially something
                                            that is defined to be "magical".
                                            But you either believe it or not.
                                            Agnosticism says it's unknowable.
                                            But it is as knowable as anything
                                            else. You don't lead your life
                                            based on irrelevant possibilities
                                            for which you have zero evidence.
                                            So for all intents and purposes,
                                            you are atheist. You just cling to
                                            the agnostic label like a spineless
                                            weasel. The absence of evidence is
                                            evidence of absence, prima facie.
                                            Good enough for a court of law.
                                            \_ Agnosticism doesn't say God is
                                               unknowable.  Agnosticism says
                                               there isn't enough information
                                               at the moment.  Maybe one day
                                               that will change.  For someone
                                               who argues against agnosticism
                                               you know very little about it.
                                               Personally, I treat both
                                               possibilities (God/No God)
                                               very seriously.  I am also
                                               surprised you are resorting to
                                               name calling.  I don't
                                               understand what about my beliefs
                                               you find offensive.  I don't
                                               find you offensive, merely
                                               overcommitted.
                                                 -- agnostic
                                               \_ most atheists are most likely
                                                  special-case agnostics.
                                                  \_ No they are not.
                                                     Agnostics and atheists
                                                     are fundamentally
                                                     different.  Agnostics
                                                     (correctly) do not jump
                                                     to conclusions.
                                                     Atheists and theists do.
                                            \_ What kind of proof are you
                                               looking for?
                                      \_ the belief/religion of relativism..
                                         a belief that there are no absolutes
                                         (such as relativism) is very
                                         absolute onto itself..
                                \_ I have basically given up trying to talk to
                                   people about this. Whenever I have, in the
                                   past, it invariably had two possible out-
                                   comes. 1) getting angry and cutting off any
                                   discussion or 2) the person ignores all the
                                   specific details of the religion and just
                                   talks about feelings etc. They completely
                                   just accept without question all the details
                                   based on this generic spiritual feeling, and
                                   can't dissociate the two.
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  WEEEEEEE!
               From http://m-w.com: Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable _/
               Definitions vary. How are you so sure what agnostic means?
               For someone who claims to be agnostic, you don't seem to know
               much about it. Here's a little site that's kind of cogent:
               http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathq_athorag.htm
               Go look at the history of the term. I find it irrelevant.
               I am convinced there's no god, although obviously if one came
               along I'd have to change my belief right? But a biblical-style
               god is among the least believable things I can imagine. Alien
               life is more believable, although I have no direct evidence.
               And you are an atheist unless you believe in god.
               \_ Do you believe the existence of a spiritual realm?
               \_ Very well.  If you think atheist = !theist, then agnostics
                  are a subset, although that's not a very meaningful
                  definition.  If you think atheist = !god, then agnostics are
                  not a subset.  I like the latter definition.  My dictionary
                  and my friends agree with me.
                  \_ Fine. But that stuff about being overcommitted is silly.
                     I don't believe in Santa Claus. Do you have an opinion?
                     What's the practical difference anyway? Are you afraid
                     that the hypothetical god would be pissed if you aren't
                     always careful to stipulate to people that you don't know
                     "for sure"?
2003/10/20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:10695 Activity:nil
10/19   Things we've learned from Republicans lately:
        http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2003/10/20/tomo/story.jpg
        \_ 5, 4, 3...
        \_ I'll put in my thank you for submitting this before it all devolves
           into the usual flamefest.
           \_ 2...
           \_ There's no point in going through a line by line correction.
              It's a cartoon from salon.  I could post links to my favorite
              conservative websites the same as the OP is posting from one of
              their favorite leftist ones but what would be the point of doing
              that?  --Eevviil BushCo Conspirator
              \_ That you'd taken the bait?
                 \_ If it makes you feel better to think so.  Meta comment on
                    a link is not the same as biting down hard. --EBCC
                    \_ I bet you're a Yankees fan.
                       \_ Feeling better, yet?
2003/10/20 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10696 Activity:nil
10/19   Any recommendations on where to find reviews/comparisons of digital
        cameras?  I'm not exactly sure what I am looking for I was looking
        at a Fuji FinPix 3800, but it seems like it might be a bit more
        than I need.  I'm pretty amateur photographically.
        \_ http://www.dpreview.com
           \_ Seriously. This is THE site.
           \_ The site seems very usefull, but it is way over my head
              I'm afaid.  I can't really use the buying guide as it
              require more technical expertise than I have. E.g.
              The units for zoom and tele-zoom are not familiar to me.
              \_ Go to the forums on the site.
           \_ http://www.steves-digicams.com is also good.
           \_ A related question, do interpolated pixels add any data
              or is this like optical zoom where you could do it
              all in software afterward?
              \_ In general, interpolation is bad. You are losing picture
                 info. This is what's done with digital zoom. You can do
                 the equivalent of digital zoom by taking a picture with
                 optical zoom only, and then cropping the picture using
                 software. The more mega-pixels, the better, when you
                 want to do cropping.
                 \_ Well one of the camers was claiming native
                    2048x1536 and 2816 x 2120 (interpolated)
                    should I just ignore the interpolated  number,
                    or is it capturing CCD data I may not get otherwise?
                    \_ Yes, just ignore anything with digital
                       zoom/interpolated stuff.
              \_ you have optical and digital zoom mixed up.  Optical zoom is
                 good; digital zoom is bad and can be done in Photoshop.
                 \_ Yeah, I was thinking one thing and typed another.
        \_ Canon PowerShot A60.  All the newbies love it.  A little heavy --
           post again if you want a lighter one.  Basically you want one
           with 3x zoom and a real viewfinder (not just LCD).
           \_ If you want light, go for the new Sonys. My coworker has one
              that is as light as a disposable. Oh, and he's happy with the
              picture quality. Myself, I have a Canon Powershot S45. Heavy,
              but quality is quite nice, even in dummy (mostly auto) mode.
        \_ http://www.imaging-resource.com
           I especially like how they have the time it takes for each camera
           to snap a picture from when you hit the button.
2003/10/20-21 [Uncategorized] UID:10698 Activity:nil
10/20   What are the current pay rates for UGSIs in the CS department?
        \_ back in my day, it was fifteen cents an hour and we liked it.
           and we had to bring our own replacement tubes.
           \_ You had tubes?  We wished we had tubes.  We wished we were
              allowed to wish.  We could only wish when no one was looking.
        \_ Ask the CS department maybe, eh?
           \_ I'm just curious.  I'm not even an undergrad anymore.
        \_ What is UGSI?
2003/10/20-21 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:10699 Activity:kinda low
10/20   What is the new UCLINK gonna be? What OS? What software? What/When?
        \_ TRS-DOS, VSN.
        \_ Software: Communigate Pro, Stalker.
           Hardware: ~three front-end, two back end PC servers running Linux,
                     with NetApp for storage.
           Schedule: Primary implementation December/January, additional
                     features (including stuff like @Berkeley.EDU addresses)
                     over the next few months.      \
                        -tom                         \_ I kiss you!
           \_ Which Netapp boxes?  Connected via what?  smb?  nfs?  direct?
                \_ I don't currently have the technical details.  -tom
                   \_ Probably some POS 250 or something given how the rest
                      of it is being done.
                        -tom
2003/10/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics] UID:10700 Activity:nil 75%like:10713
10/20   danh in the news
        http://csua.org/u/4qn
        \_ That you, aspo?
2003/10/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:10701 Activity:nil
10/21   Does any online digital printing service print dates/timestamps?
        I know Ofoto doesn't...
        \_ why do you want a timestamp on your picture?  If you name
           your file properly, some photo services print the filename
           at the back of your photo print.
           \_ Well, I don't take a lot of pix and I would order prints
              like couple of years after they were taken.  Ofoto and
              Shutterfly do print the "print date" on the back, but
              then it would be nice if they print the date when the
              pictures were taken somewhere too.
2003/10/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/Networking] UID:10702 Activity:kinda low
10/20   I need to design some sort of tcp socket system for responding to
        client commands (sent from a gui).  The client will be sending
        text strings such as "set_foo_bar_baz=2340", but usually more complex.
        The server delegates the command to a specific function, which will
        respond with a potentially large (10Kb) response string.  Is it
        possible to pass the socket descriptor to the command handler s.t.
        the handler can fprintf() to the socket?  Is this advisable?  TIA.
        \_ What's wrong with passing the socket descriptor and using
           send()?
           \_ print formatting, ease of use, etc.  Also, it's a realtime
              system and we can only allocate memory at startup.
              \_ How can you have a realtime system rely on tcp?  Are you sure
                 it's a realtime system? -- ilyas
                 \_ The socket code is running in a low priority task which
                    talks to the RT task.  I'm interested in the file
                    descriptor solution because a dynamic malloc (even at
                    low-pri) might be too slow... the alternative is a purely
                    static buffer allocation, which I then pass into the
                    command handlers... but formatted printing into a char
                    array (sprintf; strcat) isn't quite as nice as fprintf.
                    \_ I think the tcp latency will dominate any latency from
                       a dynamic malloc.  Mallocs aren't that slow, compared
                       to a slow network.  Unless of course, your tcp is local.
                       Even in that case, the protocol makes no guarantees
                       about delivery times, so it would be difficult to
                       convince anyone your system is truly real time.
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ The RT data is coming in over the system bus; tcp
                          is only used for command & control.  I'm not
                          experienced enough to actually know what's going on,
                          but my mandate is that malloc is a no-no.  At any
                          rate, it looks like the static malloc decision has
                          already been made.  Thanks for your help though.
                 \_ Must be Linux based.
        \_ http://members.cox.net/defiant_penguin/documents/basic-socket.html
           There, have phun.
           \_ I think phun is depreciated.
                \_ Really?  Can I write it off on my taxes?  Or do
                   you really mean deprecated?
                        \_ just read the link retard.
2003/10/20-21 [Uncategorized] UID:10703 Activity:nil
10/20   snurl >> http://csua.org/u
        \_ Um, whatever.  it does the same thing, and it's some random
           third party that you know nothing about.
           \_ yeah, they're probably stealing the links for the TIA.
              \_ Why would something like this need to set a cookie?
2003/10/20-21 [Uncategorized] UID:10704 Activity:nil
10/20   You guys still getting telemarketer calls?
        \_ Fewer.  They have 3 months or so to clean their databases.
2003/10/20-21 [Consumer/Camera] UID:10705 Activity:nil
10/20   Yahoo! News - David Blaine Being Tested at Hospital
        http://csua.org/u/4qo
        Why is he called a magician when all he does is plain stunts?
        \_ he is a magician who uses his stunts to get notoriety
        \_ Dood: Itz Street Magic. What up?
        \_ How does he do the self levitation trick? Is that just by using
           an upward momentum or some device is his shoes?
                \_ The Masked Magician guy revealed this on one of his Fox
                   specials. It's totally lame. It's part camera tricks, part
                   editing, and all he really does is get on his tippy toes.
                   \_ What?  You mean magic isn't real?  You mean I'll never
                      learn to defy physics?
                        \_ What I'm saying, smartass, is that it would have
                           actually been cool if he did make some trick device
                           hidden in his shoe. But all the entire trick is
                           just lame camera tricks. Here's an URL showing just
                           how lame it is:
                                http://www.magiclearn.50megs.com/photo2.html
                           \_ Oooooh, anti-gravity shoes!  yeah!  that would
                              be cool.  If I built some AG shoes I'd use them
                              in my magic act too.
                           just lame camera tricks.
2003/10/20 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:10706 Activity:nil 80%like:29581
10/20   Any recommendations for colocation or dedicated hosting with debian?
        \_ I always wondered why people care what distro they're using for
           a server system.  What's the difference?  A server is a platform
           for remote applications.  It shouldn't matter what directory layout
           exists below the application layer.
           \_ heh, as if.
        \_ Check http://www.webhostingtalk.com
2003/10/20-21 [Finance, Recreation/Food, Computer/SW/Security] UID:10707 Activity:low
10/20   Ever wonder why you get some much junk mail?  It's because the United
        States Postal Service encourages such practice!
        http://www.usps.com/features/fourstepstodirectmail.htm
        \_ of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations...
        \_ Yeah, they're self supporting.
        \_ poor trees.
           \_ theyre grown on tree farms for the purpose.  so of like your
           \_ theyre grown on tree farms for the purpose.  sort of like your
              lunch.
                \_ yes the forests of Canada, Madagascar and Burma
                   are one vast tree farm.
                   \_ yawn.  no one is chopping trees in madagascar to get
                      paper to send you junk mail.  it takes 50,000 trees
                      to print *each* edition of the sunday NYT.  you think
                      they're stripping madagascar?  no, it's all tree farm
                      trees raised for that purpose.
              \_ poor cows.
                 \_ and poor wheat and corn and everything else grown for
                    us to murder and eat.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:October:20 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>