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2017/10/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/23   

2001/8/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Startup] UID:22207 Activity:moderate
8/21    what's the correct agency to contact when a person/company
        wont pay me for work done?
        \_ The Board of Shait Cunts.
        \_ California State Labor Board.
        \_ How much money is it? If its enough and the company is
           big enough you should threaten to sue. You can probably
           work out a good settlement, perhaps for more $s than
           just back pay if you get the media involved.
           \_ Threaten to sue or bring the subject up with the State Labor
              Board. If you take it to the Labor Board, it will take time
              to get your money, but the company will be forced to show
              their pay records of all employees affected by California
              state taxes. This is NOT an idle threat. Be sure you ARE
              right, otherwise the company can countersue for harrassment.
        \_ why don't you tell us fellow sodans which person/company is it?
           \_ send the Soda Brotherhood after them
              \_ There is no secret cabal of daves.
2001/8/18 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:22167 Activity:nil
8/18    Waaaa, waaa, waaa.  Its all Bush's (and Texas') fault.
        http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3b7dc6a54935.htm
2001/8/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/BayArea] UID:22147 Activity:kinda low
8/16    I need a few grams of magnesium.  Are there any chemical supply
        stores in Berkeley? -mjm
        \_ Alfa Aeser: http://www.alfa.com they will send you what you need fast.
        \_ Get a cheap Cube case on ebay.
           http://simson.net/photos/hacks/cubefire.html
        \_ Making your next bomb?
2001/8/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Dating] UID:22129 Activity:very high
8/15    I'm curious about alimony and child support.  In general how long
        does one pay these things?  I assume child support is up until the
        kid(s) are 18?  As for alimony?  You don't pay that for the rest of
        your life do you?  BDG?  Do you care to comment?  Thanks.
        \_ The comments posted below are true, provided you get a hearing
           in a court where the judge is interested in justice rather than
           promoting her communist lesbian feminazi agenda despite knowing
           that your ex-wife is a lying cheating heartless slut.
           In some states you can get stuck paying for a long time, until
           she gets married to some other poor dumb slob.
           And she will her quit her job before submitting the paperwork
           for a divorce so she can claim in court that you are her only
           source of income thus get a bigger and longer settlement. She
           will also add on charges of physical and mental abuse along
           with stories of your philandering in order to get more of your
           stuff, including assets which belonged to you before you two
           were married.
           Take my adivce, don't get married. If you do get married, get
           a prenup and make a good solid trust before you get married.
           And *WHEN* you get divorced, make sure who hire a better lawyer
           than she does. It doesn't matter that he costs $500/hr, its
           much cheaper than paying her way for the rest of your life.
            \_ He's back with us! Don't stay away so long next time!
               -- BDG #1 fan
               \_ Is BDG one person, or a set like-minded individuals?
               \_ I posted the other day, but I toned down the message
                  so you might have missed it.
        \_ It depends on the state.  In California, alimony is extremely
           rare; CA is a community property state, which means that any
           property acquired after the beginning of the marriage is owned
           50% by each party, and will be split that way after the divorce.
           Alimony only comes into play if one partner, for example,
           never had a career because she stayed home to take care of the
           kids.  Child support is negotiable, sometimes includes college,
           doesn't have to.  (Are you going to delete this, too, paolo?) -tom
           \_ tom, quit trolling me... 'nuff said, i leave you all to
              your "discussion." - paolo
              \_ Paolo are you "flaming" tom again?
           \_ My buddy got nailed with 12 months of alimony, 15 years
              of child support (ok, the latter was not 'nailed with').
           \_ Alimony is actually not rare in California, and does not have
                to do only with the reasons that Tom suggests. In general,
                a "standard of living" is created during a marriage. If,
                after a divorce, one party will be living at substantially
                below the married standard of living than alimony may be
                appropriate. For short term marriages (less than 10 years),
                alimony generally has a maximum length of 50% of the time
                span of the marriage, so if your buddy had a 2-year marriage,
                1 year of alimony was extremely appropriate, according to the
                law. If his marriage was longer, he got off easy.
                Knowledge is always a solution to ignorance. Go read
                "How to Do Your Own Divorce in California" by Nolo Press.
                Cody's has copies. --Phillip "Edward" Nunez
                \_ Heeeeey -- is Bitter Divorced Guy your alter ego???
                   \- so is alimony level "renegotiated" if the paying party
                   is laid off from $100,000+ job -> unemplyment? How about if
                   he/she quits? ok tnx --psb
                        \_ my dad was forced to go back to work after being
                           laid off from AT+T.  (He's now at SAP).  -tom
2001/7/24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21930 Activity:nil
7/23    Is it just me or does the photo of GW Bush at http://latimes.com have
        him resembling a chimpanzee?
        \_ Hey, chimps are good.  They are the intellectuals and scientists.
           Watch out for those Gorillas though. (hint, Charleton Heston
           and Apes)
2001/7/20 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21872 Activity:nil
6/21    again notice how no one is talking about power situation in Ca
        Any more.  All those evergy guys run models based on expected
        growth occuring and all the new construction being filled- ie all
        those nice brand new building in the bay area- empty..... thus
        they aren't sucking any power.  Thus no energy crisis. Add to
        that reduction in power through conservation and no crisis.  Note
        that there is only like a 1-2% shortfall. This is easy to solve
        by just turning off some lights- raising the temp but a degree.
        simple conservation techniques. But then again- I could be wrong-
        but since no one talks about the details how would I even know
          But the fucking media just doesn't talk about it- They only talk
        crisis and no analysis and it really pisses me off. The analysis
        and commentary is what is interesting and you just don't get that
        through media- That is why I like watching sports- the
        "commentary" is good. or at least better than anything else.  Now
        obviously some media includes commentary but it is like tageted
        on whats in the news and not on what is NOT in the news.  This
        world is so damn complex and so large with so much going on- yet
        for some reason the only thing that is important is 2 words "tech
        meltdown" or even more general "recession"
2001/7/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics] UID:21837 Activity:very high
7/17    Which of the current issues do you think will be UC's biggest
        reason for their downfall? 1) Creating UC Merced, 2) Abolishing
        the SAT, 3) Allowing them to consider race in admissions, or 4)
        Automatically accepting the top 4% of high school students?
        \_ Blatantly loaded question. First present a definition of "downfall"
           and hard evidence that the UC is undergoing "downfall"
        \_ 3 and 4.
        \_ True, it's loaded, and true there's no hard evidence I can give
           to prove it. But a hand-wavey explanation would be that
           the prestige of the UC system is going down, especially Cal's.
           Especially wrt Cal, they are riding on the high laurels that
           they used to have. Next, looking at Cal graduates (from ugrad
           and grad), they aren't as successfull/productive as those from
           other schools. Next, look at the intelligence (or whatever
           you wanna call it) of incoming students. Half are getting
           smarter (due to a more selective admissions process) and the
           other half are even dumber than before (due to automatic
           admissions, and most of all, our favorite: affirmative action).
           That latter half will help bring UC down even more.
           \_ gee, Cal managed to get along with affirmative action for 30
              years...was it "riding on high laurels" then?  (Whatever that
              means).  -tom
                   \_ lameness.  why don't you realize this.  Cal sucks
                      for different things.  if you like people to hire
                      for a cube farm who will work hard and never complain
                      until they get strokes from overwork, then cal's great.
                      But if you want leaders and people who will inovate
                      and come up with new ways of thinking, then look
                      elsewhere.  I'm not even sure cal grad school has it.
                \_ That's when it was making an effort providing
                   high-quality professors (i.e. people who could do
                   research AND teach; you don't find the teaching
                   component part of the criteria anymore,
                   unfortunately), recruiting high-quality students,
                   and not let the bullshit politics and political
                   correctness interfere with its mission. So, despite
                   the affirmative action, it was successfull enough
                   in the other areas.
                   \_ really, what evidence do you have that teaching
                      isn't part of recruitment criteria?  I'm sure that the
                      L&S Deans would be very surprised to hear that, seeing
                      as how they're the ones actually doing the faculty
                      searches.  Oh wait, you're just an anonymous cowardly
                      troll with no real point.  Sorry I said anything.  -tom
                      \_ a friend of mine applied for a fulltime faculty
                         position on the math department.  he was working
                         as soft-money part time faculty, and he told me
                         all the department wanted was a list of publications
                         and research qualifications, and did not even ask
                         about teaching.  perhaps the math department
                         is worse than most cal departments, though.
                      \_ Tom's right (throughout this thread), here are some
                         URLs to support him; you come up with some evidence
                         that contradicts below, THEN we'll have a argument.
                         http://www.berkeley.edu/about/honors
                         http://uga.berkeley.edu/sled/dta.html
                        \_ Anonymity is irrelevant here. So...how do I
                           know teaching isn't part of the recruitment
                           criteria? Tell me you aren't that oblivious.
                           Haven't you taken a course at Cal? Don't you
                           see firsthand the quality of the "teaching"?
                           So tell your L&S deans to do a better job, if
                           you wanna keep playing that card. And...no
                           need to apologize for saying anything.
           \_ Translation: "Cal was DAMN GOOD right up until I graduated.
                (Just like *me*!)  Then it all started going to hell.  Kids
                these days . . . "
                \_ Nah, it was already on the downhill while I was
                   there. But now it's gonna plummet now, due to reasons
                   1-4 from above, though. That stuff DID happen after
                   I graduated.
                   \_ Cal engineering will be fine. There are a lot of
                      poor bright people like me who prefer going to
                      public school because its cheaper which allows us
                      to graduate without being saddled with debt.
        \_ It has nothing to do with race.  When I was in L&S CS, most of
           the students were oppurtunists who cheated on tests and did
           the minimum to get by.  And most of these people were Asians.
           I'd say it has more to do with people who are unable to enjoy
           learning.  And BTW, I'm also Asian who made it out with a 3.5
           so it's not a jealously thing.
           \_ You graduated from L&S with only a 3.5? Damn you must have
              been slacking off. There is no excuse for graduating from
              L&S with under 3.8 since there is no real course work
              (except if you were math or physics, which you weren't).
              \_ I did REALLY bad freshman year.
           \_ The issue is that these people, myself included, didn't go to
              college "to learn." They go because you need it to get the big
              bucks. But really they just want to have fun and don't
              particularly give a shit about Scheme or n-channel mosfets
              or the OSI reference model. I liked learning about history.
              There's an inherent problem with my knowing history though:
              it's not particularly useful to ANYONE ELSE WHO WILL PAY ME.
              \_ I'll bet alot of history majors are making double your
                 salary.
2001/7/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Health/Men] UID:21757 Activity:very high
7/10    Men become obsolete:
        http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010710/hl/sperm_1.html
        \_ did a woman post this?
        \_ remember that women outnumber men. Therefore, they have
           "majority".
           Prepare for all men to now be voted into ghettos in the US.
           \_ Women won't take over the world. Dolphins will. Either
              that or a couple of lab rats.
              \_ My vote is for the cockroach.
           \_ The rights of the one outweigh the rights of the many
              in this country. Thank god we are not a democracy.
           \_ I knew the 19th Amendment was a bad idea
              \_ After that, in the first election women get to vote, they
                 help elect arguably the worst president of all time - Warren
                 G Harding, who had the first cabinet officer convicted of
                 a felony while in office. Poll after poll rate him as the worst
           \_ Gimme a fuckin' break.  I'm so sick of hearing about men
              acting like a bunch of whiny victims.
                \_ Excuse me woman? That's because you and your race
                   have made it all but a felony to even look at a girl
                   improperly. So stop YOUR whining; we gave you what you
                   wanted.
                   \_ Women complain when we look at them, but they complain
                      even more when we don't look at them.
                \_ http://www.kirbyinwood.com
                   and that's another warning!
        \_ where is /etc/motd.authenticated?
           \_ In my pants. -geordan
              \_ Ah.  No wonder no one can find it.
              \_ Well, pull it out and share. Stop sitting on it.
2001/7/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Security] UID:21720 Activity:nil
7/5     http://www.securityfocus.com/templates/article.html?id=221
        \_ Computer security consultant and confessed cyber intruder
           Max Butler will serve out his 18-month prison term at the
           privately-run Taft Correctional Institution in central California,
           sources say.
2001/6/19 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21581 Activity:nil
6/19    California companies cannot make california full-time employees take
        time off. They can't "force vacation".
        \_ That's fine.  Employees can have a choice: time off or layoff
           With this economy, most employees really don't have a choice.
2001/6/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:21553 Activity:insanely high
6/17    If you're concerned about competing for jobs with H1B visa
        recipients, consider writing your Congresspeople and president.
        The economy sucks right now and companies are hiring H1B people
        instead of recent grads or recent layoff-ees.
                \_ Actually, most high-tech companies just plain aren't
                   hiring anyone right now.  Plenty of openings in fast-food
                   & retail though, and they can't hire H1-B's.
        You can find addresses for some senators/congressmen/president in
        ~peterm/Addresses.  Get your friends to write, too.  --PeterM
        \_ I didn't have you pegged as a xenophobe, peterm.  -tom
          \_ I deny being xenophobic.  The rationalization for H1Bs
             was always that companies couldn't fill positions.
             I know plenty of people who can't find jobs now.
             The time for H1B's has ended, for now.  I'm happy to
             have them all back when the economy improves.  Also,
             I have no objection to IMMIGRATION.  But this half-assed
             H1B serfdom is perverting the market.--PeterM
             \_ This is a logical fallacy: "X is a better solution,
                so we should oppose Y."  I don't see you writing letters to
                congresspeople telling them to relax immigration laws, and
                it's highly unlikely in the current political climate that
                immigration laws will change at all.  So getting rid of
                H1B's is equivalent to "getting rid of those damn furriners
                who are taking 'our' jobs", as if we have more of a right
                to those jobs because of where we were born.  Do you buy
                anything electronic?  Ride a Taiwanese bike?  "American"
                jobs have been farmed out to furriners who will work for
                less for many years.  Now that it's happening (on a very
                small scale) to rich white guys, it's suddenly a problem.
                Boo fuckin' hoo.  -tom
                \_ Wow, I agree with tom, for once.  Open borders, all the way.
                \_ I drive a japanese car.  Open borders all the way.
                \_ Yes let's just distribute everything equally to everyone in
                   the world! Why should I have more than the overcrowded
                   destitute multitudes! We should all live like that! Think
                   how efficient it will be having dense cities of hard workers
                   with mass transit and solar panels and windmills on all the
                   roofs! Ah, it brings a tear to my eye. Viva la revalucion!
                   \_ who said anything about distribution?  we're talking
                      about letting your vaunted free market decide who
                      gets the money.  Oh I forgot, you only like the free
                      market when it benefits rich white males.  -tom
                      \_ "why are you bashing white males like everyone else,
                          tom?  it it because it's the right thing to do?"
                          "no, but it's quicker...easier...more seductive
                   if that's the question.  -tom
                          than coming up with a real answer"
                          \_ uh, a real answer to what?  -tom
        \_ It's pretty easy to work at a University job and say being
           against H1B Visa's is an example of xenophobia.  Try
           competing in the open market where you are up against H1B
           people who claim to be able to do your job for 1/3 the pay
                 \_ Immigration is very necessary to a strong economy. For
           and see how pro H1B you end up being.  The result is that
           the market gets flooded, wages go down, and you've turned
           California into the traffic congested, out of energy mess
           it is today.  -ax
           \_ It's trivial to compete if you are smart.  Are you smart, ax?
           \_ It's easy to sit around in a job with artifically high
              wages created by an artificially constrained supply of
              workers and then complain when the party's over.  -tom
              \_ Are you prepared to give up your Cal job to an H1B
                 Visa holder who will do it for less money than you and put
                 your money where your mouth is?  -ax
                \_ I don't feel I have anything to fear from H1B visa holders,
                   which is the relevant question.  -tom
           \_ let me get this straight.  are you seriously blaming
              immigrants for the energy crisis in california?
              \_ 25% of the people in California are not citizens.
                 We're about 25% short on power.  See an easy solution
                 to this math problem?  The population of the US
                 only grows because of immigration. -ax
                 \_ Immigration is very necessary for a strong economy. For
                    example, the Japanese have priced themselves out of
                    many job markets, but they refuse to allow Koreans
                    and others willing to work those jobs into Japan. The
                    end result is that the Japanese economy is stagnant
                    even though the net worth of an average Japanese is
                    $450,000. --dim
                        \_ and the US, specifically, is forecast to have
                           growing need for immigrant labor for precisely
                           this reason.  Guess ax will just stop eating
                           grapes.  -tom
                 \_ I'm sure a lot of those non-citizens are illegal immigrants
                    from places like Mexico.  How much electricity do you think
                    they use?  Electricity use is not evenly distributed among
                    the populace.  Let's not forget that a lot of the power
                    consumption is from businesses (server farms, etc.).
        \_ If a company is dumb enough to hire someone less qualified
           (and believe me, there are a lot) then they should have the
           right to. But I don't think being an H1Ber has any bearing
           on your qualifications (or your lack thereof) or your likely-
           hood of being hired. Actually, you're probably less likely
           because managers would rather not go through the hassle of
           dealing with an H1B applicant. As for my experience, I had
           to work with 2 NCGs, one of which had an H1B. I found the
                          \_ ??
                             \_ new college graduate. -tom
           American citizen utterly incompetent but the guy on H1B to
           be qualified.
        \_ from a companies point of view, H1B's can be good -- they tend
           to get locked to a company 3-6 years at a time.
           Also, do you have more objective proof of some of the annecdotes
           you offer?
           \_ Of course it is good for companies. Wouldn't you want
              an employee you could underpay, overwork, and have thrown
           \_ Shut up, Paolo.
              out of the country for any reason whatsover?
        \_ PeterM, immigrants are essential to the U.S. economy. Without
           the cheap Indian and Chinese workers the hi-tech industry wouldn't
           have boomed the way before. Also without the cheap Mexican and
           negros you'd have to pay $10 per nugget. Immigrants are good.
        \_ If that argument were true, the economy would be booming beyond
           belief now since we have more cheap labor than ever.  -ax
           \_ You are right.  We needed the foreign labor then.  Now,
              we don't, and citizens have to compete with non-citizens
              who cannot compete fairly in the job market because they
              are hindered by red tape.  IF WE WANT FOREIGN WORKERS
              MAKE THEM CITIZENS INSTEAD OF H1Bs.  No more H1Bs.  Either
              FULL citizenship or GET THEM OUT.  --PeterM
              \_ what about green cards?
                \_ Those with green cards don't have to have an employer to
                   stay in the country, right?  Their bargaining position is
                   equal to a citizen's, then, and they won't pervert the
                   labor market, as much, or at all.  --PeterM
                   \_ along similar lines, why not support labor laws
                      requiring businesses to pay H1Bs fair market wages?
                      just curious --erikred
              \_ I wouldn't make a statement as strong as "FULL
                 citizenship or GET THEM OUT", but I would say that
                 if there are temporary work visas for foreigners, the
                 foreign workers should have the same privledges as
                 citizens/permanant residents.  This would be more
                 fair to both citizens and to the foreign workers.  In the
                 current law, the people who benefit are big corporations --
                 they can hire H1B applicants for less money and it is a
                 pain in the ass for H1B applicants to switch to a new
                 employeer.  Both the citizens/prem. residents and H1B
                 holders get screwed in this deal.
        \_ I say throw the illegal immigrants in vats of boiling oil
           and tape it, then show the tape on HBO. This will send
           a message to the rest of the world that we are bad-ass
           mutha-fuckahs.
        \_ They just upped the number of visas. By the time you get
           congress to change the laws back, we'll start needing them
           foreign workers again. Congress must think we are nuts out here
           in California -- we WANT H1B's, we DO NOT WANT H1B's. we WANT,
           we DO NOT WANT...Make up your friggin mind. In good or bad economy
           the labor arguments: "H1B serfdom is perverting the market"
           (peter M) still apply, so why now? friggin idiots you should have
           thought about this before you let them up it in the first place.
           \_ Hey, I have always been against HB1B visas and have even
              gotten friends of mine to write stories in the Examiner
              and Chronicle outlining the dangers (this was years ago,
              btw, way before the bubble popped). It is easy to mouth off
              on the motd, but a bit harder to actually go out and do
              something about it. Now that the cat it out of the bag,
              so to speak, I think we have an obligation to give full
              citizenship to the HB1B visa holders (and the inevitable
              25 relatives they will want to bring over). But I still
              think we should cut off the indentured servitude program. -ausman
        \_ Give me concrete proof that companies are hiring more H1B visa
           holders right now -- my experience is that most companies are
           passing over candidates with H1Bs and favoring either green
           card holders or citizens in this current market.  Most of the hiring
           managers I run into don't want to wait for any sort of visa
           processing and feel they can find someone immediately available
           under the current job market conditions. --chris
           \- you know this is pretty interesting to read. i think it is a
           good example of moral reasoning not coming from intuition. --psb
                \- i fwd this to my liberal indian activist friends. they
                will soon be picketing sloda now they are done with that
                pederast reddy. well at least you guys will be able to check
                out some hot indian women. tom might even get some for leading
                the good fight. ok tnx. --psb
                  \_ I've "got some," tnx.  -tom
                \_ Your liberal indian friends need to be shipped back to
                   India, where the victory of socialism has already been
                   achieved.  They will have nothing to picket there, they
                   ll just slowly starve to death.
2001/6/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21540 Activity:very high
6/15    Those European bastards are getting uppity:
        http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2001201087,00.html
        \_ D00D, 7H47'5 B3K4UWZ 3UR0P34N5 R 3V1L C0MM13 L1B3R4L5.
           \_ I know that you are being sarcastic, but europe is
              pretty socialistic and state orientied. The people
              there tend to vote themselves onto the dole as
              frequently as possible and they like to limit freedoms
              and the abilities of oridinary people to achieve
              as much as thier abilities allow.
              \_ Nobody votes to limit their own rights.  The
                 argument that Europeans are naturally stupider than
                 Americans won't hold up.  What motivation would
                 anyone have to vote to limit their own unalianable
                 rights? Nothing. The only reason anyone would vote
                 to strip common people of their rights would be if
                 we had an oligarchy or some sort of Orwellian state
                 where it serves the leaders to limit natural freedoms.
                 Again, Europeans are dumber than Americans isn't a
                 valid argument.
              \_ europe is fucking lame.  they just suck eggs over
                 there. bunch of stupid gay wankers
                 \_ Couldn't have said it better myself.
        \_ GO TO TEXAS!
        \_ Bush is just helping further the stereotype that Americans
           are arrogant pricks.
           \_ Bush and Chenny have been the greatest thing to happen to
              American television since Pinky and the Brain.
              George: "Gee Dick, what are we going to do tomorrow night?"
              Dick: "Same thing we do every night, George. Try to take
               over the world!"
           \_ Oh yeah, just because Americans don't want to be a cash cow
              for the rest of the world...
              \_ Bush is doing a great job in my opinion. Can't wait to
                 vote for him in 2004.
                 \_ We *are* arrogant pricks, see.
                    \_ We are not arrogant pricks, the rest of the world
                       is jealous of our freedom and prosperity and they
                       want to drag us down to thier level.
                 \_ He's not taking a hard enough line in most cases,
                    but, I'll vote for him again.
2001/6/12 [Recreation/Travel, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21484 Activity:very high
6/11    So my company had originally notified us that it was shutting down for
        July 5th and 6th, but they just were told that forcing exempt workers
        to take vacation days was illegal in the state of California.  So my
        question is how do other companies shutdown for that week, and also in
        December?  Hasn't anybody challenged this?  Man, sometimes I really
        love this commie state and all of it's great laws concerning wages.
        \_ Yeah, it sucks when companies can't decide not to pay you
           whenever they want.
        \_ Say what?  You love this commie state and all of _it_is_ great laws?
           Anyway, are you sure about this being illegal in California?  If so,
           cool!  I can raise hell here..., again....  --ricky
                \_ uh, your honor, i read on the motd that this was illegal,
                   and everything I read on the motd is true!
        \_ If it was scheduled company holidays instead of personal vacation
           days, it should be fine.
          \_ My company, which shall remain nameless for now, is shutting down
             for the whole July 4th week.  If an employee does not have 4 days
             of vacation time to use during that week, that employee will NOT
             be paid for that week except for the 4th, which is a company
             holiday.  How's THAT for a bad policy?  New workers only get 10
             days of vacation per year and they're forcing you to use 4 of
             those on July 4th week.  They'll probably force you to use some
             more during xmas time.
             BTW, I can't find any confirmation of this state law.  Does
             anyone have a proof?  --ricky
             \_ McNealy is da' man!
               \_ I don't work for Sun.  I work for Compaq.  (I usually say
                  Digital, but in this case, I'll say Compaq.)  --ricky
                  \_ That wasn't hard to figure out. All you had to do
                     was look at your wtmp records.
                  \_ Oops, well, Sun's doing it too.
                     \_ Sun gives new workers 11 days per year (not 10).
                        Also, if you dont have enuf vacation, they they
                        will make accomodations. You still get paid. But,
                        don't know if any of this forced vacation is legal...
                        but I know layoffs are legal.
             \_ They are not "forcing you to use vacation". They're just
                saying they wont pay you for those days. Technically, there's
                a difference.
                On the other hand, for "salaried employees", this sounds
                rather hokie
2001/6/12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:21481 Activity:high
6/11    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/felkins1.html
        now you know why Chaney was forced to sell his shares in Halliburton.
        http://biz.yahoo.com/t/41/2631.html
        Ahh will you look at that: Chaney is a director of EDS... and where has
        EDS been getting all their money from......(EDS got like a 5 billion
        contract with the navy to upgrade their whole IT systems.)
        I got pissed off at Verizon when I was ready up on them- GTE ( now
        Verizon ) sold their government systems group to "lockheed" ( not
        sure if it was lockeed ) and DYncorp. . Dyncorp is a shit hot company
        when it comes to govn sub contracts which probably no one has ever
        heard of.
        \_ God damn conservatives!  I am so mad at them!!11!
        \_ Duh... virtually every politician profits from their influence.
           \_ this may be true, but most people, as in the VICE PRESIDENT
              OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, are not so blatant about it.
           I don't condone it, but since you are such a through investigator,
           why don't you look into why Clinton moved technology export
           and licensing from the State Department to the Commerce Department.
           All the while John Huang, who was subsequently convicted of
           of funneling campaign contributions from the People's Republic
           of China to the DNC, worked there.  Clinton took
           this behavoir to an all time low and sold out the country at the
           same time.
           Why is there outrage from liberals about corrupt government, yet,
           the first chance they get they vote to raise taxes.  Bizarre!
           At least conservatives are for smaller government.  I'll take the
           lesser of two evils any day.
           \_ i don't think it was a repub vs. democrat thing, it just sounds
              more like a "what is going on here (currently) post?"
           \_ your attempts at bipartisan strawmen serve your tri-lateral
                                is this like from the kama sutra? _/
              council masters well.  Bravo.
        Brown and Root - heard of them-- they did the whole logistics support
        operation in Bosnia: ( $2 Billion
        http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/army/arnews/16.html  ), FYI, I'm a
        republican - orig poster.  I just want to make sense of who the big
        shakers are. (i already know it ain't no ".com")
        \_ Thanks tjb. Now please go back to the crack pipe.
2001/6/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21466 Activity:low
6/9     I had posted earlier about the CA State Tax board not cashing my
        check after two weeks and me being worried. They just cashed it last
        week. My mom's accountant told me they can take up to 6 weeks to cash
        your check. Just FYI.
        \_ I wish I was that lucky. Thanks for the FYI.
2017/10/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/23   

2001/6/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Kinney] UID:21431 Activity:nil
6/5     What happened to AmIHotOrNot?
        \_ they changed the name to http://hotornot.com for marketing purposes
        \_ who is this person?
           Administrative Contact:
              Eightdays,Inc
              James Hong
              229 Heartwood Lane
              Mountain View, CA 94041
           \_ That would be James Hong, who lives in Mountain View.
              Really, what kind of answer are you expecting? --Galen
           \_ That would also be jhong@{csua,hkn}, Cal EECS class of '95,
              one of the two founders of the company (other one being
              jimy@hkn, Cal EECS '94). What kind of answer are you expecting?
           \_ duh. - kinney
              \_ If we ignore you, will you go away? -- kinney #1 fan
                 \_ no, i'm bored and waiting for grad school to start in USC.
2001/5/26-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:21367 Activity:insanely high
5/25    Russia introduced a flat tax of 13% last year.  Am I the only one who
        finds that ironic?  (Tax revenue was up 70% this year, btw).
        \_ Why is this ironic?  Econ 1A.
           \_ It's ironic because the former bastion of communism has learned
              the lessons of capitalism better than the United States has.
              \_ your argument will/would make more sense when and
                 if Russia becomes a place human beings actually
                 enjoy living in.  Do you read the newspaper?
                 Russia is a lawless hellhole.  The United States
                 is not (yet).
                 \_ RUSSIA IS AN EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL COUNTRY
                 \_ Russia was never a place suitable for the enjoyment of
                    human beings.  It never will be.  What's that got to do
                    with it?  Are you trying to imply that the IRS is the
                    source of American prosperity?  Surely, you jest.
                    \_ THE IRS IS AN EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL ORGANIZATION
                    \_ what funds the government?  little fluffy
                       clouds?
                       \_ CLOUDS ARE EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL WATER VAPORS.
                       \_ You think the government is the source of American
                          prosperity?  Who cares what funds the government?
                          The government is not what makes this country great.
                          The government only holds us back from being even
                          greater.  Had some pork lately?  Pay your taxes like
                          a good little boy and run along.  Why do all you
                          lefties think the government is capable of improving
                          your life or anyone's life?
                          \_ GOVERNMENT IS AN EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL IDEA.
                             DOWN WITH AMERICAN GOVERNMENT!
                          \_ I haven't posted on this thread yet, but yes
                             I do think the government deserves a lot of
                             credit for our prosperity.  I came to this
                             country as an immigrint with nothing.  I was
                             able to attend excellent public schools from
                             grades 1-12 and then I received a scholarship
                             to the best public university in the world.
                             After graduating I was able to contribute
                             to a variety of companies some of which are
                             doing quite well.  Now I am in graduate school
                             supported by a fellowship.  A good deal of
                             our country's success in technology can be
                             traced to government programs like education
                             which take people like me who would otherwise
                             be flipping burgers due to lack of education
                             and turns them into scientists and engineers.
                             Although I would obviously prefer to pay less
                             taxes, I am happy to pay my taxes every year
                             because I'm grateful for the benefits I've
                             received.
                             \_ PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL
                                THINGS. BANNISH PUBLIC SCHOOLS! IMMIGRANTS
                                AND IMMIGRATION ARE EVIL COMMIE LIBERAL
                                THINGS. BAN BOTH OF THEM!
                             \_ Amen, brother.
                             \_ Glad you got a piece of what me and so many
                                others have had sucked from their wallets for
                                so many years.  How much of my money goes
                                straight to welfare for the extended families
                                of immigrants who came here to do nothing with
                                themselves as opposed to the rare few who did
                                something useful such as yourself?  How about
                                _this_ story?  _Their_ taxes helped put _you_
                                through school.  Be ashamed.  And oh yeah...
                                "Amen, brother", but for them, not you.
                                http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134299780_family27.html
                              \_ The American government has the ability
                                to enforce contracts and thus promotes much
                                legitimate commerce. This is because it has
                                a very strong judiciary and a credible
                                encforcement capacity. The Russian government
                                hasn't quite figured any of this out yet
                                and so is incapable of creating an environment
                                where people improve their own lives.
                                \_ INTERNATION RELATIONS ARE EVIL COMMIE
                                   LIBERAL THINGS. FUCK INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
                 \_ you are free to move to a nice place without
                    a legitimate government (or taxes)... like Angola.
                    \_ Nice strawman.  Could you explain the correlation in
                       your mind between taking 50% of my income and freedom
                       as a citizen?  Thank you.
                       \_ Who's taking 50% of your income?
                   \_ sure!  what do you think supports all your freedoms
                      in america?  harsh language?  the good will of
                      the people? I really do think we enjoy more freedom
                      in america than in other countries with near
                      anarchy and no taxes.   if you're trying to
                      argue that the progressive tax is wrong, that's
                      another argument, i will have to go do some reading.
                        \_ The government doesn't create freedom.  The US
                           Constitution does by *limiting the powers of the
                           Federal Government*.  The government, by it's very
                           nature restricts freedom.  And yes, the progressive
                           tax is wrong.  There's no reason to take a greater
                           percentage *and* a greater absolute amount from one
                           citizen and give it to another.  I support sales and
                           usage taxes (such as bridge tolls) which is a system
                           where only those using the service pay the tax.  I
                           am strongly opposed to any form of income tax.  The
                           progressive income tax is only one step shy of a
                           total confiscatory "tax".  I *really* don't like
                           hearing elected reps in federal government saying
                           "no one needs more than $X amount a year".  That's
                           none of their god damned business.  As if they'd
                           have a clue what a citizen needs anyway.  Career
                           politicians know nothing about the people.
              \_ When will people learn? Communism == mobilizing a nation's
                 economy through command-control pervasively controlling
                 every aspect of life, including thought and media (like
                 1984). Communism != tax. Communism is evil (at least to
                 Americans) because it violates the very principles of the
                 Bill of Rights but it has nothing to do with taxes.
                 \_ It seems like you might be confusing the philosophy with
                    an implementation of that philosophy....
                 \_ Communism is evil because communism is a slave system where
                    the government effectively owns the people.  The tax rate
                    is meaningless when you're owned by the state.
              \_ Nah.  They just read some basic econ books.  BTW, Feinstein
                 voted in favor of the miniscule Bush tax cut.
2001/5/24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21347 Activity:very high
5/24    Buh-bye Gray Davis!  Don't forget to turn out the lights on your way
        out!  http://www.capitolalert.com/news/capalert04_20010524.html
        \_ typical americans, blam everyone but themselves.
           \_ I love this guy.  He sits around quoting lines from "Die
              Hard" about how much the US and its citizenry suck, but never
              actually says what nation he's from.  Personally, I think he
              knows that the hypothetical 'superiority' of his nation is
              based on the fact that he allows no one to actually scrutinize
              it on the motd allowing him to make up whatever little fantasy
              makes him happy.  What a fucking coward.
                \_ I am from Sweden.  You have a problem with that?
                   \_ Hej-hej. Sweden's nice you know but it isn't perfect.
                      Its socialist policies have made it uncompetitive in
                      the global marketplace. I'm glad I don't live there
                      and lose most of my income to supporting lazy bums
                      who get free apartments and health care and child
                      support without having to do a thing to earn it.
                      (only some of it does).
                      \_ Hmm ...  Is that why our Ericsson is kicking
                         your Lucent's arse in wireless infrastructure,
                         and our Finland bretherens' Nokia is kicking
                         your Motorola's arse in mobile phones?
           \_ Maybe so.  It depends on who you blame for not building more
              (or any) power plants in CA in the last 10 years.
              \_ Los Angeles is surviving this crisis just fine.  Maybe
                 it's just a bay area thing. (bay area people being what they
                 are)
                 \_ You haven't seen the June bill, yet.  Let us know in
                    mid-July how fun it was to pay that one.
                 \_ _City_ of Los Angeles runs it's own municipal utility,
                    LA Department of Water and Power.  They generate a surplus
                    of electricity.  Too bad we dont have one of those here.
                 \_ And how many times did the Bay Area and the rest of
                    California bail LA out of bankruptcy?
                    \_ I must've missed this one. --dim
                    \_ i'll write you a thank you card. right after i turn
                       up the A/C and the spa heater.
                       \_ We should cut off the Sierra water supply to these
                          ungrateful pigs!
              \_ I blame the love of money.
                 \_ Sure. Ok.
2001/5/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21339 Activity:high
5/23    Can someone recommend a cruise line or agent for cruises along the
        California or west coastline that is trustworthy?  I just don't know
        which ones of the hundreds listed on Yahoo conduct honest business.
        Thanks for any info.
                -- Gay or straight ?
                   \_ Straight.  With my wife.
                      \_ Swinging or Non-Swinging?
                         \_ Huh?
        \_ http://www.scifi-cruises.com  - if you and your wife are trekkies
        \_Carnival Cruises was inexpensive and quite enjoyable.
2001/5/16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21288 Activity:nil
5/15    Unionization ruined our schools:
        http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0501/bowles.html
        \_ bs, as usual. some union doesn't dictate politics. people voted
           down vouchers. people vote for the "corrupt polititians." if
           those are problems the people are to blame.
2001/5/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:21281 Activity:kinda low
5/15    How long does it tax for the CA State to cash my tax payment check?
        It's been almost one month. The IRS cashed it in a week.
        \_ You'd think Davis would want your money as fast as possible these
           days.
        \_ usually very fast like within a week.  maybe your CA return
           is lost in the mail.
        \_ I mailed my CA forms on the 15th and the check was cached on the
           24th.
           24th.                                        indeed _/
2001/5/12 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21256 Activity:nil
5/11    California is doomed:
        http://www.latimes.com/business/reports/power/lat_risky010511.htm
        Davis' power plan is based on hopes, guesses, and ideal estimates.
        This is no way to run a state.
        \_ But it's a great way to run a nation's budget.
        \_ I love this. Beyond some hack writer's story, on what
           evidence do you base this statement? Do you have some
           method to make polisci and economics quantitative? Hell,
           its half guesswork and half voodoo. If you have a better
           plan , perhaps you should run for office.
           \_ Is there *any* news source you would accept?  When stuff from
              conservative media sources are quoted the response is usually,
              "That's just right wing propoganda.  No one reads that!"  When
              it's a left wing media source like the LA Times, the response is
              to attack the one particular random author.  What little world
              do you live in?  And more importantly, have they stopped building
              power plants?  If not, I want to go there too.
              \_ Uh, no. Someone intelligent can discern between and opinion
                 and a fact. Facts come out of reports like 10K reports or
                 official government pubilcations or if the news media
                 takes that data or wording from that publication and reports
                 it verbatim. But once a reporter starts to infer, it's no
                 longer a fact but an opinion.
                 \_ So things like quoting Davis as saying we'll have X much
                    more power by Y date (which isn't happening) and that
                    things like his business conservation program which only
                    has 2 companies signed up so far is just the reporter
                    making stuff up?  Okey dokey!
                    \_ No, because despite having sound bites and quotes
                       from almost every other person involved, the reporter
                       never once quoted Davis himself.  So in fact, the
                       article makes it appear as if Davis is using the
                       "we'll have X much more power by Y" argument
                       without actually reporting what he said.
                       \_ Yeah it's just the people who are supposed to be
                          implementing it who have no idea how it's going to
                          work and are quoted as saying so.  Time to let it
                          go.  The plan is fucked and playing word games about
                          who was quoted directly or indirectly in an article
                          won't save the State of California.
        \_ The only solution to the problem is more supply == more
           power plants. Unfortunately the dimwitted anti-progress
           tree-huggers and no nukes alarmists won't allow that to
           happen, because they secretly relish the fact that this
           state will soon revert to the stone age, because that is
           the highest level of technology they are capable of
           understanding.
           \_ wait, what about the demand side, dude?
                \_ This was discussed yesterday.  CA already has the greatest
                   conservation rate per capita in the nation.  There's only
                   just so much more to be squeezed from that rock.  No new
                   power plants have been built in 10+ years in CA as the
                   population and business usage grew.  Think about that one.
                   \_ No, Hawaii and New York are at the top, not CA.
                      And you would expect New York to run the heaters
                      non-stop. And if you look at the distribution, the
                      numbers can go lower. In Los Angles, residents consume
                      an average of 5400kW hrs which is significantly
                      lower than the state's average (7700kW hrs).
              \_ Yeah, the tree huggers should stop recharging thier
                 EV1's.
           \_ Rocks can be used to assault others.  We must eliminate rocks...
              for the children!
              \_ Laws of physics can be used to assault others.  We must
                 eliminate laws of physics ... for the CHILDREN!
                 \_ Sky equipment kills people.  We must attack the sky
                    equipment industry!
              \_ Science has made us what we are! Science has made the guns,
                 the power shortage, the nukes, the traffic jams! We must
                 eliminate Science and trust God... for the children! Good
                 lord man, the fucking CHILDREN!
                               \_ This is problem. F*cking is what created
                                  the children. We must eliminate f*cking!
2001/5/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21235 Activity:high
5/10    I know this sounds like a troll, but seriously....  There's a sticker
        on the gas pump at my local station that says, "This product contains
        MTBE which is known to the State of California to cause environmental
        harm".  Ok, knew that.  But the idea was supposed to be that we add
        MTBE to protect the environment.  But here we are with MTBE laden
        fuel that costs more but doesn't protect anything.  What gives?  Is
        there a real explanation for this?  Why are we using MTBE?
        \_ MTBE lowers hazzardous air emissions, but contaminates
           ground water. EPA misadvised the Bush Sr. Administration
           which signed off prematurely and corporate lobbies pushed MTBE
           through before we knew the later facts about ground water
           in detail.
           \_ Ok, so what does MTBE do for the corporate lobbies?  What do
              they care?  And why can't we dump it now that we know better?
              \_ MTBE clean up for a gas station is extremely expensive.
                 \_ So they don't have to do any cleanup as long as they put
                    the stuff in the gas and continue poisoning the water
                    supply, but once they decide to stop ruining the water,
                    it suddenly becomes expensive?
                    \_ Cleanup is now  required by state law.
              \_ I read that MTBE can be substitued by ethanol.  Eliminating
                 MTBE can mean either increase (if air standard is still
                 required) or decrease (if air standard is lowered) ethanol
                 demand.  Ethanol is made from corn.  Corn in US is politics.
                 -- yuen
            \_ MTBE is a by-product of the refining process, so otherwise
               the refineries would have to dispose of it.  That's why they
               want to keep selling it
2001/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:21189 Activity:very high
5/6     According to http://www.pge.com we're in a stage 1 power emergency.  I
        didn't see anywhere that said if we're doing rolling blackouts today
        or not and which areas.  Anyone got a URL?  My power blipped out twice
        just now and it'd be nice to know.
        \_ rolling blackouts don't hit until stage 3.  -tom
           \_ Rolling blackouts don't hit until you get a liberal fool in
              office.
                \_ the mad anonymous Republican troll strikes again!
           \_ Ok, now we're in stage 2.  Anyone got a URL?
              \_ Check http://www.sfgate.com  They usually have pretty good
                 coverage on power blackouts.  Second half of block 14 is next.
        \_ News releases from the CA ISO:
           http://www.caiso.com/newsroom/pw2000.html -- yuen
        \_ Turn off your monitors and lights when you leave your offices / labs
           / classrooms.  Screensavers only save the screen, not electricity!
           \_ Actually, screens haven't needed saving for years now. We're far
              removed from the days of image burn-ins.
        \_ If you'd like to know, get on the email notification list. Sorry,
           cant remember if it's on http://pge.com or http://sfgate.com
2001/4/28 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21126 Activity:nil
4/27    how did elections go?  I know the outcome, but the vote tallies?
        runoffs?
        \_ we won
           \_ Woohoo!
2001/4/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:21047 Activity:very high
4/20    "Indeed, if I understand this global-warming business correctly, the
        danger is that the waters will rise and drown the whole of
        Massachusetts, New York City, Long Island, the California coast and a
        few big cities on the Great Lakes --- in other words, every Democratic
        enclave will be wiped out leaving only the solid Republican heartland.
        Politically speaking, for conservatives there's no downside to global
        warming."  --- Mark Steyn
        \_ Stupid.  It will just turn Indiana into New York, and there will
           be no "heartland" left.
           \_ But think of the children! Won't somebody please think of the
              children!
                \_ family values
           \_ Its a joke. Get it a joke. Anyway, I think Global Warming will
              be good. We need warmer weather. I hate wearing pants and shoes
              and San Jose is soo far from the beach right now.
                \_ And you think my answer is serious?  Yes, I like warm
                   weather.  It's cold where I am.
                   \_ and don't you hate pants?
                      \_ especially underpants.
                         \_ yeah, punk rock.  now this thread is going
                            someplace.
                            \_ better thread topic: how about asian girls
                               who shave "down there", wear skirts and
                               no underwear.
                               who shave "down there", wear skirts and no
                               underwear.
                               \_ damn.  now I'm all wet.
2001/4/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:20962 Activity:insanely high
4/12    Are there any good links on the thing about the federally income tax
        not being legal?  My google search only got me a lot of yellow on red
        background rants with LOTS of CAPS for EMPHASIS.  I'd like to see
        something a bit more scholarly than the typical conspiracy crap. on
        the net.  Thanks.
        \_ Overseen on wall.log:
           Boredcast Message from 'tom': Fri Apr 13 09:03:16 2001

           it's not important that americans get a tax cut at all.
           americans are severely undertaxed

            \_ Tom! Say it ain't so!!  I knew you were a big-gov't anti-gun
                Fascist but this is TOO much.  It must be lie; slander.
                Perhaps you were on a bad trip. explainP -Formerly Tom Fan #11
        \_ <DEAD>givemeliberty.org<DEAD>
        \_ http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
          \_ if only this guy started to refute motd claims as well
        \_ Search on http://www.freerepublic.com
        \_ Just pay your fucking taxes.. sheesh.
              \_ I will pay my taxes (for now). But at least I know
                 that taxes are illegal and amount to extortion from
                 liberals who want to waste my money on crappy projects
                 that are completely worthless.
                \_ who pays for the glorious american infrastructure
                   you are using RIGHT NOW?
                 \_ [ deleted ]
                  \_ Wow, this is the longest I've ever seen an
                     anti-liberal post go without being deleted/censored.
                     What gives?  [restored.  twice]
                    \_ tom must be idle.  At lunch on his gub'mint
                       salary job.
           \_ Typical motd "I don't want to think about anything" spewage.
              Just what exactly is wrong with asking for a link about a
              current event topic?  Even if the stuff is totally bogus, some
              people still find it interesting.  More interesting than the
              Yet Another Security Bug,  "yermom", C++ weirdness, or small
              penis links that get posted.  "WAAH!  It's outside the scope
              of my little geek world!  Don't think about it!  Don't post on
              it!  I want to stay ignorant and boring!"
2001/3/22 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20876 Activity:high
3/21    Suppose that someone proposed some "Vote For Yourself" initiative
        by which whatever you vote for only applies to you. For example,
        voters who vote for higher taxes get only _their_ taxes raised.
        People who vote to eliminate gun ownership, can't own one. What
        would be the legal problem with this? Possibly equal protection
        under the law? Can it be structured differently to make it possible?
        \_ I vote for the right to kill anyone I want. And you'll be the
           first person on my list.
           \_ It only applies to you. So you can kill yourself.
        \_ Some laws need to be universal, because some rights are universal.
           The trouble with politics is that people do not agree on what
           universal rights are, if they did no division would exist. -- ilyas
        \_ I vote that I become President.
           \_ you morons are missing the point. I never said vote for
                anything you want. Just that whatever you vote for
                only applies to you. dumbshit.
                \_ "applies only to you".  You'd only be voting for the right
                   to kill yourself.  Some find this right more important than
                   others based on personal circumstances.  I say "go for it!"
                   I fully support your right to kill yourself.
        \_ Aside from legal issues like having a unique set of laws apply to
           each person which makes the legal system cease to have meaning, the
           logistics of keeping track of your personal vote tally would be a
           task beyond mythical proportions.  Also, what do you do about the
           80% of people who don't vote?  Anyway, you'd never get the left to
           agree to give up the power to tax the rich to buy the poor. That's
           the entire basic and core function of the DNC these last several
           decades.  I can't see Gephart going for it.  :-)
2001/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20702 Activity:nil
2/26    Miami Herald reports Gore would've lost anyway with a full
troll   manual recount: http://www.miami.com/herald/special/news/flacount
troll   \_ I was going to post that.  Damn it.  I'm going to post it anyway:
           http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-02-25-recount.htm
troll   \_ Your corporate masters have spoken. Go back to sleep. Democracy
           is safe in our hands.
troll      \_ Uh huh... and if they said something different, you'd be the
              first screaming for GWB to resign.
              \_ No, I voted for Nader. The Republicrats are all scum.
troll   \_ Oh Yeah. "Let Every Vote Count!" Bush should've let it happen,
           and then said to Gore "Looser!". We all knew Gore lost.
troll      \_ You mean let DNC shills steal it?  And the word is "loser",
              not "looser".  "looser" is yermom.  Went to a diverse school,
              did you?
2001/2/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20698 Activity:moderate
2/26    Is California still at some stage of power alert?  Or how did we get
        out of the crisis?  I've been missing the news lately.
        \_ We did not get out of it. We postponed it by racking up
           massive debts that consumers are going to get shafted with.
           This summer is going to have blackouts. -ausman
        \_ The Consumer Utilities (i.e. PG&E) are still on the verge of
           bankruptcy, and the state is still burning millions of taxpayer
           dollars a day to prop them up.  Due to plants returning to service
           from maintenance, the supply is still there and there's no more
           power alerts.   Start saving for your power bills, its going to
           be the taxpayers and power users who wind up paying for this mess.
           \_ Thanks for deleting my post and saying exactly what I said.
              We might be able to avoid blackouts this summer with the
              use of dozens of smallish, high polluting power plants
              scattered throughout the state. It is still being decided.
                \_ You'd prefer we just not have power?
2001/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20697 Activity:high
2/26    Miami Herald reports Gore would've lost anyway with a full
        manual recount: http://www.miami.com/herald/special/news/flacount
        \_ I was going to post that.  Damn it.  I'm going to post it anyway:
           http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-02-25-recount.htm
        \_ Your corporate masters have spoken. Go back to sleep. Democracy
           is safe in our hands.
           \_ Uh huh... and if they said something different, you'd be the
              first screaming for GWB to resign.
        \_ Oh Yeah. "Let Every Vote Count!" Bush should've let it happen,
           and then said to Gore "Looser!". We all knew Gore lost.
           \_ You mean let DNC shills steal it?  And the word is "loser",
              not "looser".  "looser" is yermom.  Went to a diverse school,
              did you?
2001/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20658 Activity:high
2/22    Are butterfly knives illegal in CA?  Are there any good online sources
        where I can find out information on stuff like this?
        \_ blades less than 4" are legal. butt knives, stilettos are not
           legal no matter what the length.
        \_ Previous poster is wrong (*all* blades over 4" are not illegal!
           That would outlaw steak knives!).  CA state law says that
                \_ No, you just don't know how to read.  The two statements
                   'blades less than 4" are legal' and '*all* blades over 4"
                    are not illegal!' do not contradict each other.  The
                   first statement implies that some blades over 4" are
                   not legal, but it can be completely true even if all
                   blades less than 4" are legal, since it actually says
                   nothing about blades longer than 4".
                   \_ yup (late night).  The statement "blades less than 4"
                      are legal" is false, which is what I should have said.
           automatic knives with blade lengths of less than two inches are
           legal.  CA case law classifies butterfly knives as automatics.
           As far as state law is concerned, a butterfly knife with a blade
           less than two inches long is perfectly legal.  Some local
           governments (Mountain View, for example) ban possession of all
           automatic knives, regardless of blade length.
           <DEAD>pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm<DEAD> is a good reference
           on state knife laws, but I don't know of one that covers local
           ordinances.  The relevant federal agency (sorry -- I don't
           remember which one that is off the top of my head) has reversed
           themselves, declaring that butterfly knives are no longer
                 not carried in public.
           considered automatics (making them legal for interstate sales
           and importation into the country).  California's state knife
           laws are ambiguous and open to abusive enforcement.
           \_ my apologies.  i stand corrected.  wow. and just to think
              i could have been carrying a legal 2" butterfly knife.  guess
              i'll sell this 6" one.
              \_ The 1.9" automatics are kinda cool.  With how poorly the laws
                 covering this are written, some argue that it is technically
                 legal to own a full-size butterfly knife in CA, as long as it
                 is not carried in public.  Wanna be the test case?
           \_ is my rapier legal?
              \_ I think it's legal to carry around a sheathed sword, as long as
                 it's visible.
              \_ Yes.  Is it under 2"?
           \_ You can't go wrong with a flail.
                \_ I prefer the standard mace.  Just a big chunk of steel at
                   the end of a stick can do wonders on Telegraph.
2001/1/14 [Recreation/Celebrity, Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:20310 Activity:nil
1/13    Shockingly biased Palm Beach Post says _Bush_ would have gained more
        votes than Gore if all votes properly counted in Miami-Dade!  I think
        these right wing hacks should be locked up.  The rightward bias in the
        media must stop.  We need new regulations to control the media and
        stop the lies and yellow journalism.
        http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/today/news_2.html
2000/12/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:20195 Activity:nil
12/28   English is not the National Language in the US:
        \_ Yeah, and it's not even required for elected officials
           or the people who try to vote for them.
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/debate.htm
        \_ Ok... so who is putting the little daffy symbol in Mr. Daffy's
           'corrections'?  "The 1990 Census found that most minority language
           speakers are bilingual --- 94.2 percent of them speak English
           with varying levels of proficiency."  Yes.  Varying.  Like the same
           way I knew the Spanish word for 'water' when the busboy didn't know
           the English word for it.  English, American dialect, *is* the
           national language in the U.S.  Trying to deny the obvious is plain
           stupid.  Have a cookie, troll.
           \_ officially, it is not the official national language.
                It may be the unofficial national language, but not
                the official one.
                \_ Officially?  That's not what the link or the original post
                   is about.  Like, uhm, hey, duh.  We know there isn't an
                   "official" language so why bother mentioning it?  Might as
                   well remind us all that Martian isn't the official language.
              \_ so it's the official unofficial language?
        \_ What the hack.  In Singapore, Malay is the official national
           language, but the government and businesses use English for
           everything, and most people speak Chinese after work.
        \_ the appropriate term is "de facto"
2000/12/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20167 Activity:low
12/24   It's amazing.  More Republican vote theft.  No wonder they didn't want
        every vote counted.  Look at all these people who Jeb screwed over:
        http://www.herald.com/content/today/news/dade/digdocs/110495.htm
        A deep investigation of Florida and some folks are going to vote from
        prison next time.
        \_ Convicted felons can't vote, moron.
           \_ They can so long as they're republicans in Florida.
           \_ You didn't get the joke did you?
2000/12/14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:20101 Activity:high
12/13   http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2768-2000Dec13.html
        Different groups can't even agree which votes are in dispute, much
        less how to re-re-re-re-re-count them....
        \_ I'm very interested in whether they'll have any success here.
           I trust the liberal L.A. Times more than the GOP for a report
           on how counts would have turned out if a single, state-wide
           standard for under/overvotes were taken.  Even if the liberal
           L.A. Times reports "Broward was bad mm-kay, because the indented
           ballots were entirely subjective."
           \_ Trying to determine what someone intended when there's anything
              other than a clear punch is subjective.  I trust the late night
              psychic hotline woman more than the LA Times.
              \_ Go away (right-leaning) troll.  Even the Republican
                 counsel at the Supreme Court hearing implied that a
                 penetrated ballot could count as a legal vote.
2000/12/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20091 Activity:insanely high
12/12   Supreme Court rules for Bush, 5-4.
           /- I've re-worded it, ya crazy sodan:
           |  Of the seven justices that felt there were constitutional
           |  problems, two did not feel these problems warranted a halt
           |  to the recount.  Hence, the 5-4 vote.
                \_ This isn't true no matter how you word it.  Try again
                   and this time use something other than jesse jackson's
                   website as an info source.
                   \_ Dewd.  You are sick.
        \_ 7-2 agreed that there were problems with the Equal protection
                clause.
        \_ 7-2 agreed that there were constitutional problems with what has
                been going down in Florida.
           \_ They agreed that there was not a consistant way to hand count
              votes (ie. the different chads) because of that, there would
              be a question of equal protection under the law. There is no
              law of what a vaild vote is in Florida, except that it is
              determined they the Secretary of State. The problem lies in
              that there is disagreement of whether or not the Supreme Court
              should have interferred at this point in the process. Bush
              wins by litigation.
                \_ Bush wins by having more votes.  Thank you for playing.
                   \_ Gore had more votes...don't be silly.  Not even the
                      Republican lawyers are suggesting the Bush actually
                      received more votes.  Congrats on preventing the
                      recount in Florida while getting one in New Mexico.
                         \_ New Mex. recount was automatic, not requested
                            AFAIK. And AL could have cheated his way to
                            more votes, not quite the same has getting more
                            votes on election day. Spare me your whimpering
                            about under votes, etc. If you really care
                            about your vote, you would make *SURE* that
                            you punched the ballot all the way through.
                            If you can't even bother to do that, your vote
                            deserves to be discarded.
                            \_ Stop using the "F" word!  _F_acts offend the
                               mindless ultra left.  Yes, NM was an automatic
                               recount just like the machine recount in FL,
                               and the automatic recount triggered in Oregon
                               in the Senate race.  Bush had more votes.
                      \_ url?
                         \_ If you didn't notice the other recount, you aren't
                            really interested (If you have to ask, you don't
                            already know)
                      \_ uh, Florida did get a recount.  The count was
                         certified, Gore went to the lawyers, yadda yadda yadda.
                   \- bush wins by delay of game. penalty 150 votes. --psb
                           \_ stupid republican comment deleted
                              \_ COMMIE CENSORS CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
                                \_ Poor babies.  For the poor ultra leftist
                                   clowns who can't deal with the truth I
                                   essentially said that Bush won every vote,
                                   and count and recount using the most stupid
                                   rules invented by Gore's Demo buddies with
                                   ballots manually counted by Gore's Demo
                                   buddies and at no point despite this
                                   travesty of justice was Gore ever ahead in
                                   Florida.  Good bye Mr. Gore.  Nice speech.
                                   Hopefully your last public speech ever.
              \_ and Gore WASN'T trying to?  the votes were recounted, the
                 count was certified, Gore went to the lawyers, yadda yadda
                 yadda.
                 \_ The Republicans hand recounted their districts then
                    denied the Dems the same right. And got away with it,
                    it turns out. Face it, your man stole the election.
                    \_ url?
                       \_ It does not exists, because it did not happen.
                          The GOP did not recount any district by hand.
                    \_ Hello?  Volusia?  Broward?  Only the most heavily 20%
                       Democratic areas in Miami-Dade?  Al Gore did his best
                       to steal it and got beaten down like the mad dog he is.
                       If I wanted spin and lies I could turn on CNN or MSNBC.
                       They do it better than you do and shower more often.
                    \_ I agree that the Republicans "stole the election".
                       The Republican strategy was to not count all legal
                       votes, especially legal votes that could go to Gore.
                       I often had the impression that they were rushing
                       the election to a close.  Not to say that the Democrats
                       were entirely fair, but the Republicans didn't want
                       to play ball and go ahead with a statewide recount
                       (probably those slippery, pro-Gore liberal counters),
                       so the Democrats were forced to pursue recounts in
                       only liberal-heavy counties.
                       I do not agree with the Republican propaganda that
                       valid recounts had been repeated thrice.  I believe
                       Gore's assertion that not all legal votes were
                       counted.
                       \_ Grow up, child.  Gore could've requested a statewide
                          recount but instead chose 3 or 4 cherry picked Demo
                          areas where he thought he could scum up a few more
                          improperly cast votes by "diving the will" through
                          his political surrogates.
                       \_ Yeah, I bet you believe that AL created the
                          internet too. All the votes that were correctly
                          voted were counted by the machine. Hand recounts
                          amounted to guessing which ballots when to Al by
                          people who want him to win. If some stupid fool
                          in FL can't be bothered to check his/her ballot
                          then they don't deserve to have a say.
                       I disagree, too, with the assertion that "the
                       Democrats would have resorted to the same stalling
                       tactics if they had the lead."  In this case, if
                       the Republicans asked for a statewide recount,
                       the Democrats would have accepted.  This coincides
                       with the general principle that Democrats are good
                       (know what's going on) and Republicans are evil
                       (are misinformed).
                       \_ And you base this on what?  Your leftist mindwashing
                          on campus from your drooling babbling communist
                          profs?  WAKE UP!  COFFEE IS READY!
                       \_ Republicans didn't steal anything. The won fair
                          and square under the laws as they existed on
                          election day (ever hear of ex posto facto?).
                          \_ Hey dumbshit. No laws were made by Al Gore.
                             In case you're too stupid to figure it out
                             he doesn't have the power. Figure out what
                             the hell "ex post facto" means before you
                             blab it out on the motd. It is within the
                             FL supreme court to interpret existing laws.
                             \_ 'after the fact', extending the recounts
                                past the original legislative deadline
                                was illegal. The courts can interpret
                                the law, they don't make it and they
                                shouldn't break it as the FL Supereme
                                Court did. Fortunately the US Supreme
                                Court has the wisdom to stop their
                                activisim.
                          GWB was ahead in the initial count, the machine
                          recount and every other count (despite challenges
                          to military ballots).
                          AL's plan for a statewide recount by his vote
                          counters would have amounted to a coup d'etat,
                          subverting the laws in order to win.
                          Furthermore, the GOP did not ask for a recount
                          in states where GWB lost by similar margins. If
                          FL had gone to ALGOR by 500 votes, GWB would have
                          conceeded and AL would be Pres. Elect. Only a
                          Democrat would have the gaul to act as AL has.
                          His behavior only serves to reinforce the general
                          principle that Democrats/Liberals == EVIL COMMIES
                          and the GOP == the good guys. Only Jefferson and
                                                             \_ I take it
                                                                you never
                                                                took US
                                                                history?
                                Let me rephrase, Jeffersonian _/
                                principles are good, Jefferson
                                the man made many scary mistakes.
                                Very few democrats even have principles,
                                so Jefferson is a decent one in
                                my book.
                          Truman have ever been able to transend this
                          principle.
                          [ Possibly unfair characterization of a liberal
                            removed by author. ]
                          \_ You make a good argument, but I'll have to
                             look at Rehnquist/Scalia/Thomas' opinion
                             in the Supreme Court case.  I think their
                             reasons for voting "no-recounts" are
                             substantively different than yours.
                             \_ Yes. As I understand it they said no
                                recounts because of two reasons. First,
                                the choice of electors belongs to the leg.
                                branch not the jud. branch according to the
                                constitution. Second, partial recounts w/o
                                standards violates equal protection under
                                the 14th amendment (as I recall).
                                I'm basically saying that what AL did was
                                not the right or proper thing to do for
                                a gentleman and a president.
                                     \_ they gave up b/c it was going to
                                        be "too big a mess."  what a cop-out.
                                        \_ You went to the Jesse Jackson School
                                           Of Logic.  I can tell.
                                \_ I'm not sure you're right about the
                                   first part and will have to check.
                                   The second part would suggest that
                                   if the state court a) extended the
                                   deadline to the 17th and b) more precisely
                                   explained how re-counts would be conducted,
                                   and explain how it would not be a violation
                                   of equal protection -- if the state court
                                   did both of these things, the U.S.
                                   Supreme Court would have let the recount
                                   go on.
                                   \_ They extended to the 26th.  Not 17th.
                                   \_ Yes, that is correct.  Despite the
                                      democratic cries of a partisan Supreme
                                      Court, a timely recount with a statewide
                                      standard would have been allowed.  This
                                      seems so obvious that I find it puzzling
                                      that the Democrats didn't push for it.
                                      The only explanation I see is that they
                                      really were fishing for votes.
                                      \_ I don't know what it's like to be
                                         a liberal Florida Supreme Court
                                         justice, but it looks like what
                                         happened is that four justices
                                         produced a hasty, poorly thought-out
                                         decision, in order to meet a Dec 12
                                         safe harbor date.
2000/12/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:20019 Activity:kinda low
4/250   What is DTS Digital format?
        \_ Competing sound system to Dolby. First introduced in
           Jurassic Park. Most popular in California.  Some say it sounds
           better, but that's for the individual to decide.
           \_ I thought that was THX
              \_ THX started with Return of the Jedi. THX & DTS/Dolby are
                 not competing, rather complementary.
                        \_ DTS competes with Dolby 5.1. THX is another
                           brand name tag that's been watered down
                           by a greedy lucas, prompting the equally
                           greed motivated THX Pro spec, which is
                           what THX origionally was, and is more $$$.
2000/12/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19973 Activity:high
12/1    More evidence of Republicans trying to disenfranchise the poor,
        minorities and other citizens they don't like:
        http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elect2000/digdocs/080337.htm
        \_ Read it again. 75% of those illegal votes were by registered
           Democrats. And yes, felons and aliens can't vote -- Sorry Gore.
           \_ A vote is a vote, simply because someone who cast a vote
              isn't a citizen or made some mistakes in the past, isn't
              a valid reason to disqualify their vote. Everyone makes
              mistakes, and at some point in the past most americans
              weren't citizens of america.
              Valid reasons to disqualify votes are:
              1. Failure to get a postmark on your absentee ballot.
                 Its the law and you have to abide by the law. And
                 don't tell me you are serving in the line of fire
                 and can't get to a local post office. I've heard
                 that excuse before.
              2. A vote for my opponent. DAMN who you be so dumb?
        \_ how the hell do you infer that Republicans are to blame for this?
           Quote from the article: "Nearly 75 percent of the illegal ballots
           discovered by The Herald were cast by registered Democrats."
        \_ Hi troll.  Felons can't vote.  I am sure Republicans don't like
           them, but you can't disenfranchise someone with no right to vote,
           now can you?
           \_ How dare you suggest that felons and non-citizens can't be
              disenfranchised! Anyone who wanted to vote for me or voted
              for me but hasn't had thier vote counted can be disenfranchised.
              The only invalid ballots come from soliders in the field who
              can't be bothered to get a postmark. Come on, how hard is it
              to get a postmark? Even the felons and illegals, who are a
              significant percentage of my base, got postmarks. - Al
2000/11/30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19959 Activity:high
11/30   Why would anyone think that a recount is more accurate than a
        machine count? Can't they use an OCR program, with 99.9% character
        recognition (and much more for simple items like the ballots) to
        go through the ballots?
        \_ it's hard to count ballots with your head up your ass.  -tom
        \_ Hand Recount is the only fair and honest way to clear up this
           mess and make me president, and office that only I am capable
           of holding.
           Hand Recounting, when performed by highly skilled members of
           team gore, uh, I mean the voting board, using their fair and
           impartial criteria (award all votes to gore) will produce the
           desired, uh, I mean correct result, which is that I ALGOR won
           the election and thus the presidency. - Al
2000/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19888 Activity:high 61%like:19887
11/21  hand-count must be counted, but it will not be enough!
        -_Gore stole election
          \_ Of course it'll be enough.  Our people are doing the check for
             voter intent.  They're going to intend 1000+ Gore votes from
             thin air.  The kicker is that the FL SC used Illinois law in
             their ruling.  I got a big laugh out of that.  Home state to
             Daley and his vote box stuffing machine!  Great stuff!  Pie in
             the face for all republicans! ahhahahhahha!
          \_ He's getting help:

       http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/11/21/110744.shtml
       http://foxnews.com/election_night/112100/militaryballots_kehnemui.sml
       http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/11/21/114527
2000/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19887 Activity:nil 66%like:19883 61%like:19888
11/21  hand-count must be counted, but it will not be enough!
        -_Gore stole election
          \_ He's getting help:

       http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/11/21/110744.shtml
2000/11/21 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19873 Activity:nil
11/21   Okay. We haven't had a good troll on the motd for days. What's
        up? Where have all the trollers gone?

        Here's my (pitable) attempt at starting one:

        Why is it that all the hot asian chick who vote democratic
        go after rich white republican business major guys who use
        windows, drive non riced cars and have less than a 384K uplink
        to the internet?

        - asian cs major who voted NADER and RIDES BIKE and uses LINUX
          and has a 1.5/1.5 DSL link to the internet and would like a
          rice rocket and hot asian chick.
2000/11/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19853 Activity:nil
11/19   Daley isn't going to last a week once he gets back to Chicago.
        WPB: Bush+12 with 20% counted.  Broward: Gore+57 with 33% counted.
        At least he'll still get to vote after they bury him.
2000/11/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19852 Activity:nil
11/19   A few things for the FL Supreme Court to consider: Separation of
        Powers, partisan nature of the canvassing boards, a lower circuit
        court having ruled in Harris's favor (Democrat judge), the recount
        isn't going to make a difference, hypocritical Dems purging 1000+
        military ballots in violation of FL election laws while saying every
        vote should count, and no judge anywhere wants to touch this hot
        potato.  My bet is they rule Judge Lee was correct, the counts can
        continue but Harris can ignore them, and the final tallies won't
        change anything and all the other suits out there will be thrown out
        by the lower court judges because they don't want to be responsible
        for continuing the mess Gore started.
2000/11/19 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19847 Activity:moderate
11/18   Anyone know how the absentee count is going in CA? Is Gore going
        to widen the gap?
        \_ WHO cares about CA?
        \_ Widen the gap in CA?  Are you insane?  No.  Duh.  Absentees in CA
           are heavily Republican.  His lead will shrink after CA finishes and
           reports official tallies in early December.
2000/11/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19839 Activity:high
11/17   CNN: Gore operatives must manufacture 927 votes to steal
        Presidency. Bush +926 with all counties reporting.  That a
        *lot* of votes, especially when WPB is failing to uphold their
        duties and has found more Bush votes than Gore votes so far.
        Gotta replace those 3 clowns with people who know how to
        create votes properly.
        \_ Yeah, let's let Jesse Jackson and Mayor Dayle's boy
           and ALGOR do the recounting.
        \_ Update: Unofficial tally is Bush+930.  What is Gore's group
           thinking?  This is no way to win an election.  If they want the
           victory, they need to do it Chicago style with tommy guns in an
           empty warehouse.  When Gore loses, he'll just fade into historical
           obscurity.  Daley is going to "have an accident".  Bye Daley.
           \_ Perhaps this is inconceivable to you bastards, but maybe
              they're doing the recount honestly?  Maybe Al Gore's game the
              whole time was to see if he really won or not based on the
              most accurate count possible?  Nah, you guys would rather find
              in him the same smut and slime that is in your own hearts,
              even if you have to "manufacture" the evidence yourself.--PeterM
              \_ Yeah, hand recounting, where its upto partisan
                 counters using subjective standards to evaluate
                 choices is really a "honest" recount. ALGOR isn't
                 trying to figure out if he won, he's trying to
                 ensure that he wins. If you think that ALGOR is
                 above doing something like this, you forget that
                 he and his boss have already sold out this country
                 to N. Korea, China, and Iran via covert illegal
                 channels.
                 choices is really a "honest" recount. Tell me
                 another one.
                 ALGOR isn't trying to figure out if he won, he's
                 trying to ensure that he wins. If you think that
                 ALGOR is above doing something like this, you
                 forget that he and his boss have already sold out
                 this country to N. Korea, China, and Iran via
                 covert illegal channels.
                 \_ Well, his partisan recounters sure seem to be counting
                    honestly despite your assertion that they're biased.
                    In fact, if your theory is correct, why is Gore not ahead?
                    Your willingness to "find" dishonesty and prejudge people
                    is a condemnation of your self more than it is of Gore.
                    \_ Because it's hard to find enough competent people to
                       screw up the votes without getting caught and they *are*
                       getting caught.  Slime in our hearts?  Tsk. Tsk.  What
                       happened to not wanting to be a part of the politics
                       of personal destruction?  Lefty smears.  If you can't
                       win honestly, smear smear smear and recount count count
                       until you do.  We can see what's going on down there and
                       it's ugly and unAmerican.
                       \_ Are you really a wingnut, or do you just play
                          one on the Internet?
                    \_ They are trying, but the votes just aren't there.
                       The problem has escalated from maufacturing 300 votes
                       to manufacturing a 1000 votes. Its much harder but
                       ALGORs counters are trying:

             http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/11/18/134509.shtml
             http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/11/18/194259

                \_ Here's the deal: with 1% of the hand recount done in
                   Palm Beach County, Gore had +19 new votes.  So, he's
                   on pace to pick up 1,900 new votes there, which would
                   be more than enough to beat Bush.  If the FL
                   S. Ct. allows the hand recount, Gore should win.
                   \_ Actually, its a lot worse for ALGOR than that.
                      The 4 precincts that were counted went Gore by
                      large percentages. That only 19 new votes is a
                      setback for Gore, since most of the other
                      precincts were evenly split or heavily bush.
                      And everyone knows that linear extrapolation
                      from a single data point cannot yeild correct
                      results.
                   \_ Who taught you basic math?  Some partisan 70 year old
                      bimbo in FL on the tube?  1900 is not a realistic number.
                      As the above states, those 4 precincts do not represent
                      the rest of WPB's voting patterns.  Those were the
                      absolute *best* Gore precincts in the state.  1900 is
                      a theoretical maximum based on the assumption the rest of
                      county had the same voting patterns.  They don't.
2000/11/17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19831 Activity:nil
11/16   If Gore wins, 30 states will succeed from the union
        \_ California shouldn't need this election as an excuse to cecede
           (yes it's "cecede" troll) from the union.  We have all the good
                        \_ Try "secede" you loser spelling-god wannabe.
           stuff.  Without the United States we would have the 6th (new
           figures?) largest economy in the WORLD.  Think about it.  It's a
           good plan.
        \_ Hi troll.  This is the dumbest thing posted on the motd in at least
           6 months.
                                     \_ I would hope all 50 would.
                                        \_ Bush supporters also tend
                                           to have the same level of
                                           vocabulary as Bush himself.
                                           \_ Typical leftist.  If you can't
                                              win, smear, smear, smear.  They
                                              \_ smear? You dumbshit. Everyone
                                                 knows Bush is a crack smoking
                                                 idiot. Even Republicans
                                                 know that. Even his dad. It
                                                 has nothing to do with who
                                                 wins this damn election. The
                                                 guy can't say an English
                                                 sentence without fucking up.
                                                 \_ So, the ends justifies the
                                                    means?  It's ok to steal
                                                    the election is the end
                                                    result is what you want?
                                                    Wow... how naive of me to
                                                    think The Will Of The
                                                    People still mattered....
                                                    \_ The Republicans stole
                                                       the election by hand
                                                       counting ballots in
                                                       Republican majority
                                                       counties then refusing
                                                       the Dems the same right.
                                              voted, Bush won.  They recounted,
                                              Bush won.  They're in court now,
                                              Bush is winning there, too.
                                              The recounts aren't _creating_
                                              enough new Gore votes to change
                                              anything.  Bush won.  The
                                              overseas votes are 5:3 (R)
                                              voters, Bush won.  Give it up.
                                              You've been in the Bay Area too
                                              long.  Even my coworkers who
                                              voted Gore are saying he lost
                                              and should give it up.
                                              \_ The Republicans stole the
                                                 election, not Gore.
                                              \_ Err ... I also think Gore
                                                 should give up, but that
                                                 doesn't mean I should like
                                                 Bush Jr., or have any
                                                 confidence in his vocabulary.
                                                 \_ This isn't about GPA's,
                                                    even though Bush's GPA
                                                    was higher.  It's about
                                                    stealing the election
                                                    through the courts with
                                                    PR blitz assistance from
                                                    the slanted press.
        \_ Then they will be rogue states.  Hope they can defend themselves.
        \_ good riddance
        \_ So if 30 succeed, will the other 20 (not incl PR and DC) fail?
        \_ I'd like Gore to take a road trip from East to West Coast.
           I dare him to try to find a path through Democratic States.
           He won't be able to without being forced to cross through
           Republican country (can't leave the U.S. borders, of course).
           \_ Who cares? They're a bunch of gun hugging hicks who marry
              their cousins.
                \_ We leftist call that "fly over country".  Driving is for
                   plebes.
        \_ This must be a troll. Republicans know better than to call for
           secession based on the results of an election; we value the laws
           of the land (unlike most democrats).
           \_they would cecede because this has become a nation of lawyers
             not laws. Al Gore can win an election by a judge and not law.
             So why note cecede and keep the constitution the way it was meant
             to be?
        \_ You people are all fucking pathetic.  This is almost-but-not-
           quite above the level of knuckle-dragging trash talking you get
           in an 8th grade pickup basketball game.  I'm ashamed to have
           graduated from the same educational system that spawned people
           as incapable of rational thought as yourselves.  And the worst
           of it is, you get to vote on my taxes.  Spite, contempt,
           vitriol.  -John
                \_ Hi John.  If they voted intelligently, they'd be lowering
                   your taxes.  Intelligently = can read a ballot and poke
                   1 hole per candidate.
                   \_ Is there more than 1 hole per candidate?
                        \_ In Florida, some morons voted once for Al Gore
                           and a second vote for that nice Joe fellow because
                           he's a nice boy, you know?
2000/11/17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:19827 Activity:nil
11/16   1976: Carter 297, Ford 240, Reagan 1 (margin of 57)
        Was Reagan an independent candidate?  (the above are electoral votes)
        \_ The electors are able to vote for whomever the choose. In
           76 one vote in Washington (state, not dc) was cast for Reagan.
           Take a look at the following page:
           http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/case/3pt/electoral.html
           The relavent part:

           "Most recently, in 1976, a Republican elector in the state
            of Washington cast his vote for Ronald Reagan instead of
            Gerald Ford, the Republican presidential candidate.
            Earlier, in 1972, a Republican elector in Virginia
            deserted Nixon to vote for the Libertarian party
            candidate.  And in 1968, Nixon lost another Virginia
            elector, who bolted to George Wallace. "
        \_ If you're hoping for (R) electors to switch votes, don't hold
           your breath... broken glass... broken glass.
2000/11/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19813 Activity:nil
11/17   Vote for your favorite operating system:
        Windows 2000 ----------O
        Linux ------------+----O <-------- Pat Buchanan
        FreeBSD ----------|----8 <-------+ Windows 98 |
        OpenBSD -------+  |      () <--+---- tjb <------+
        Write In       |  +----o o   |
        ________       |          |    +---- Linux
        .              +----------+
        \_ Ugh!  This is utterly confusing!  How can you expect a
           dumbass like me to figure it out?
        \_ Nice try.  1st graders in the deep south can get it right.  Why
           can't race baiters like Jesse Jackson?  Oh wait.  They use the
           same ballot in *his* voting district and it went ok.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19800 Activity:nil
11/16   WPB officials deny request for hand recount:

In the 1984 Palm Beach election, more than 310,000 ballots were cast. The
margin between two County Commission candidates was 242 votes.

The loser in that race and in others on the ballot protested, among other
things, the hanging chad problem. Officials denied a request for a hand
recount.
http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elect2000/decision/035445.htm
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19787 Activity:nil
102.166  Protest of election returns; procedure.--

(1) Any candidate for nomination or election, or any elector qualified
to vote in the election related to such candidacy, shall have the
right to protest the returns of the election as being erroneous by
filing with the appropriate canvassing board a sworn, written protest.

(2) Such protest shall be filed with the canvassing board prior to the
time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being
protested or within 5 days after midnight of the date the election is
held, whichever occurs later.

(3) Before canvassing the returns of the election, the canvassing
board shall:

(a) When paper ballots are used, examine the tabulation of the paper
ballots cast.

(b) When voting machines are used, examine the counters on the
machines of nonprinter machines or the printer-pac on printer
machines. If there is a discrepancy between the returns and the
counters of the machines or the printer-pac, the counters of such
machines or the printer-pac shall be presumed correct.

(c) When electronic or electromechanical equipment is used, the
canvassing board shall examine precinct records and election
returns. If there is a clerical error, such error shall be corrected
by the county canvassing board. If there is a discrepancy which could
affect the outcome of an election, the canvassing board may recount
the ballots on the automatic tabulating equipment.

(4)(a) Any candidate whose name appeared on the ballot, any political
committee that supports or opposes an issue which appeared on the
ballot, or any political party whose candidates' names appeared on the
ballot may file a written request with the county canvassing board for
a manual recount. The written request shall contain a statement of the
reason the manual recount is being requested.

(b) Such request must be filed with the canvassing board prior to the
time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being
protested or within 72 hours after midnight of the date the election
was held, whichever occurs later.

(c) The county canvassing board may authorize a manual recount. If a
manual recount is authorized, the county canvassing board shall make a
reasonable effort to notify each candidate whose race is being
recounted of the time and place of such recount.

(d) The manual recount must include at least three precincts and at
least 1 percent of the total votes cast for such candidate or
issue. In the event there are less than three precincts involved in
the election, all precincts shall be counted. The person who requested
the recount shall choose three precincts to be recounted, and, if
other precincts are recounted, the county canvassing board shall
select the additional precincts.

(5) If the manual recount indicates an error in the vote tabulation
which could affect the outcome of the election, the county canvassing
board shall:

(a) Correct the error and recount the remaining precincts with the
vote tabulation system;

(b) Request the Department of State to verify the tabulation software;
or

(c) Manually recount all ballots.

(6) Any manual recount shall be open to the public.

(7) Procedures for a manual recount are as follows:

(a) The county canvassing board shall appoint as many counting teams
of at least two electors as is necessary to manually recount the
ballots. A counting team must have, when possible, members of at least
two political parties. A candidate involved in the race shall not be a
member of the counting team.

(b) If a counting team is unable to determine a voter's intent in
casting a ballot, the ballot shall be presented to the county
canvassing board for it to determine the voter's intent.

(8) If the county canvassing board determines the need to verify the
tabulation software, the county canvassing board shall request in
writing that the Department of State verify the software.

(9) When the Department of State verifies such software, the
department shall:

(a) Compare the software used to tabulate the votes with the software
filed with the Department of State pursuant to s. 101.5607; and

(b) Check the election parameters.

(10) The Department of State shall respond to the county canvassing
board within 3 working days.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19786 Activity:high
11/15   Please read the text without ragging on the source.  Dr. Laura had
        the easiest to read (in terms of fonts, etc) copy of this quote:
        http://drlaura.com/letters/index.html?mode=view&tile=1&id=115
        Any opinions on this quote?  Was Tyler full of shit?  Where do you
        think we stand on Tyler's timeline if he had it right?
        \_ Tyler is full of B.S. True democracy in a country where the people
           are 100% educated won't vote for more money.  That happens in
           the U.S., in Philipines, in Mexico, etc, where the average voter
           has no clue of what's happening.  We haven't even progressed to
           true democracy yet, much less going on to bondage again.
           \_ unless by "100% educated" you mean 100% brainwashed into your
              or my particular ideology (and even the latter would be a high
              price to pay for what wouldn't really be a democracy), you,
              like most people, have an entirely irrational faith in
              education. -crebbs
           \_ You missed the point. "true democracies" dont last, you always
              degenerate into the haves and the havenots, which then
              accelerates like how the US is going now.
              \_ Its a moot point, since the US is not and has never been
                 a true democracy. The US is a representative republic.
                 A true democracy is not much different than mob rule. A
                 simple majority often makes hasty and ill considered
                 choises. The founding fathers knew this and created a
                 system of government resistant to drastic changes that
                 can plague a democracy.
        \- that quote does better on style than substance. the fall of athens
        has a lot to do with the peloponessian war. See Thucydides and
        Kagan IV: The Fall of the Athenian Empire. You know being invaded
                genreation, that men intheir prime could not be found or
        [by the macedonians] also didnt help. I dontthink we need to worry
        about invasion. The point about populism is interesting. See the
        rule on land reform legislation in Republic of Rome. --psb
           \_ It's not across from France anymore?  Where did they move it to?
                \- here is an interesting quote from Kagan:
                "It is revealing of the state of Athenian politics that
                the Athenians believed they must seek such qualities
                ["prudent cautious, moderate leadership"] in an earlier
                genreation, that men in their prime could not be found or
                trusted to provide it.". --psb
        \_ The U.K. wasnt "invaded" either, but it is no longer where
           it once was
           \_ It's not across from France anymore?  Where did they move
              it to?
           \_ Thanks to the liberals who turned it into a socialist
              welfare state.
              \_ The British Empire fell long before that. Unless you
                 are calling Winston Churchill a liberal.
                 \_ It was still an empire into the early 50's, well
                    after Churchill was out of power.
           \_ The British EMPIRE is anti-democratic.  That's why it fell.
              \_ Actually, it fell because it actually tried to be
                 somewhat nice to the people it conquered, rather than
                 ruling with an iron fist forever.
                 The last straw was of course the massive draining of
                 resources due to WWII.
                 \_ Yeah sure, massive draining of resources from the
                    colonies to the European front.  When the Japanese
                    Imperial Army came with 30000 soldiers, the 80000 Brits
                    ran so fast down the Malayan peninsula, the Japanese
                    soldiers had to grab bicycles from the locals to
                    keep up with the retreating British (note
                    that the terrain in Malaysia is unsuitable for
                    armored vehicles).
                 \_ They will face a problem 10x worse than what the
                    French had when they persisted in their anti-
                    democratic ways in Algeria and IndoChina.
                 \_ Nice?  Please explain in what ways the British were "nice"
                    conquerers.  Taken a history class anytime in this life?
                    \_ yeah, thats a pretty fucking dumb thing for someone
                    to say. it's always hard to tell on the motd who is a troll
                    and who really is a moron.  there are so many true morons
                    and so many really devoted trolls who have honed there
                    skills over the years and they both seem to like to post
                    to the motd. -troller
        \_ The democracy/republic which is the United States will persist
           as long as most people feel that the U.S. is the best country to
           be a citizen of on this planet.  It also persists on a common,
           nation-wide feeling of what is right and wrong, what is fair and
           not fair, and that honest, hard-working people can better
           their situation in a reasonable way, in the face of all that
           is wrong and not fair.  Voting to give yourself money is
           generally accepted as corrupt and embarrassing, unless you
           have a good reason that other people will buy.  For example,
           most people will vote to give veterans money, but most people
           will not vote to give only rich people tax breaks.  People
           may want to abolish taxes, but most people understand
           this will upset the system and create a situation where
           the U.S. is no longer a great place to live.  Anyways, the
           bottom line is that Tyler makes a lame, inflammatory college
           frosh argument that you'd hear in section and from your
                \_ Explain then, why every democracy in existence has
           a higher tax rate now than it did 50 years ago?  And higher
           50 years ago than it was 100 years ago, (obviously you can
           keep going with this).
           \_ Interesting trend.  Explanation not available.  Opinion
              unchanged.
2000/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19779 Activity:kinda low
11/14   Lets say a state w/ 2,000,000 people has 20 electoral votes
        another state w/ 1,000,000 people has 10 electoral votes.
        Candidate 1 gets 1,000,001 popular vote in state 1 wins 20 votes.
        Candidate 2 gets 1,000,000 popular votes in state 2 wins 10 votes
        Popular vote:                   Electoral Votes
        Candidate 1   1,000,001         20
        Candidate 2   1,999,999         10
        Candidate 2 wins popular vote but loses electoral votes.
        What's the big deal about crying about winning electoral college
        but not popular vote?
        \_ we are in a republic so the state gets represented, not the
        people. So the above is correct.
                \- part of the reason the popular vote claim is a little bogus
                is that wasnt the strategic target the campaigns were aiming
                at. it would be like at the end of a foodball game ignorning
                the score and awarding victory to the team with more total
                time of posession. --psb
        \_ a switch to a popular vote might not pass anyway because the
           smaller states (in terms of population) would not approve.
           In campaigning, candidates would campaign in big metropolitan
           areas and ignore the smaller states.
           \_ They already do that. Gore never bothered campaigning in
              the "Bush" states and Bush didn't bother campaigning in
              the "Gore" states. It was only the swing (or battleground)
              states that they cared about.
              states that they cared about. Do you think Al Gore cares
              what people in N. Dakota think about him? How about Bush
              in Hawaii?
              \_ True, but the effect would be even greater with a
                 popular vote.
              \_ There's a ton of folks in the little shithole backwaters of
                 places like NH that have personally met every major candidate
                 going back 50+ years.  Think that'd happen in a popularity
                 vote contest?
2000/11/14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:19774 Activity:high
11/14   For those of you who still think that Gore is getting more
        votes becaused he earned them:

        http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=65000596
        http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=65000613
        \_ i dont' agree with the Wall Street Journal's numbers
           in that article
                \_ Ok, great.  Make up your own.  What numbers would you
                   prefer?  Make some up and post a URL.  Sheesh.  Let's
                   not let little things like "facts" get in the way of
                   the truth.
                   \_ I'm glad to see you've learnt something.
                      The one thing that Bill taught me was to
                      never let facts and the truth stand in my
                      way. - Al Gore
                      PS. After inventing the Internet, I became
                      an 3113T H@X0R and I'm posting this from my
                      R00T SH311 D00DZ! A1 G0R3 0WNZ U!
        \_ Hmmm, Wall Street Journal.  No bias there.  The first article is
           purely subjective stating, to a first order approximation,
           "recounts are bad, mm'kay."  The second article features fast
           and loose journalism "Statisticians tell me that is highly
           unlikely".  Who are these vaunted statisticians?  Are they
           College Professors?  Are they bored students taking stat 2?  Are
           they even real?  Who can say.  Go sourcing.  Why should anyone
           trust the statisticians a writer for the Journal pulled out of his
           ass?  Why will they have anything but the bias needed for Fund's
           angle?
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19762 Activity:high
11/13   Watch Volusia come back with _just_ enough votes to tip things back
        to Gore, Daley scream that we need to stop counting and for the
        first time in decades, the oversease ballots actually go heavily to
        the left.  You heard it here first.
                   \_ I kick you in da nuts here first.
        \_ Volusia halfway done.  +21 or so for.... Bush.  Let's keep
           counting until we "get it right".
        \_ Volusia is now done with complete manual recount.  Gore is up
           about 20 votes or so.  They're doing the absentee and other stuff
           like provisional ballots now.  Nice try Mr. Daley.  Try suing
           Broward.  Might get some court action from a leftist activist
           judge.
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19761 Activity:nil
11/13   Why a partial and selective recount is flawed, for those who didn't
        do so well in Stat 2:
        http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111300m.shtml
        \_ you don't need to read the article to know that selective
           recount is flawed.  It is common sense.
           \_ Posted for some of the less clear thinking motd readers.
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19744 Activity:very high
11/12   Ok, so WPB had a lot of stupid people so they're getting a "do-over".
        Why are they also recounting 3 other heavily Dem counties?  I haven't
        heard a reason other than "county shopping".
        \_ Democratic counties are using punch-hole ballots. 32 errors
           per 1000.  The richer Republican counties are using scan-tron
           ballots.  1 error per 1000.  Secondly, Bush's team didn't ask for
           recounts in his Republican counties within the 72-hour legal
           deadline.  Gore's team did.  --PeterM
           \_ So you're all for law and order?  Are you also in favor of the
              5pm certification deadline on Tuesday or opposed because in
              that case, the law doesn't support your political position?
              C'mon.. let's see the twisted reasoning for only following the
              law when it suits your political cause.  Gore is a crybaby and
              is killing this country.  -N'04!
                \_ Actually, I'm in favor of a recount for Bush too.  However,
                   in his rich counties with the scan-tron ballots, he's going
                   to get few new votes because of voting count error.  --PeterM
                   \_ C'mon Peter.  You ducked the question.  Are you in favor
                      of following the law which states that Tuesday 5pm is
                      the deadline for turning in certified tallies or not?
                      This isn't a softball press conference with Barbara
                      Walters.  This is the motd and you can't get away with
                      that shit and not get called on it.
                      \_ I didn't respond because I don't know the Florida
                         law on the 5pm deadline.  I've seen it characterized
                         as an arbitrary rule imposed by the Republican
                         Sec'y of state and not a law at all.  If it is a law
                         it should be followed, unless it is contradictory
                         to some other law, in which case a court must rule
                         on it.  In the absence of credible data on whether
                         the 5pm deadline is a law or not, I have no opinion
                         on the topic.  Is that clear, Mr. X?  --PeterM
                   \_ This isn't something the Democrats want because it would
                      trigger a full check and investigation of not only
                      'irregularities' in Florida but other states as well.
                      The Dems have a lot more to fear from a countrywide
                      cleaning of ballots than the Repubs.  You don't hear the
                      Daley/Gore ticket suggesting this happen and for a good
                      reason. They're not looking for a fair and accurate
                      count.  They're fishing.  Turn it around.  If Gore was
                      in Bush's position would you tell him to sit back and
                      relax and take it like a man if Bush was cherry picking
                      which votes to "clean" and having it done by partisan
                      Repubs?  Uh huh... thought so.  Thanks for playing.  You
                      can try again in 2004.  So will we.  Green in '04!
        \_ rationale is that there were ballot irregularities which may have
           resulted in many ballots being discounted.  more specifically, the
           ballot machines will not read your ballot if there are any
           dangling bits of paper (instead of clean-punched holes).  in a
           race where the ultimate decision may be made on the basis of a few
           hundred votes, it makes sense to be absolutely sure.
           \_ Spoken like a true Gore apologist. Gore wants a recount in only
              Democratic counties so that he can eke out a win handing to him
              by partisian vote counters (they are all Democrats).
           \_ There were irregularities all over Florida starting with the
              media reporting the state went to Gore 70 minutes before the
              heavily Republican west panhandle closed their polls.  Let's
              let all of the panhandle revote!  DO OVER!
              \_ Bah!  It's likely that *more* Republican voters turned out in
                 the panhandle to try to win back the state.
                 \_ You seriously believe that?  Don't be daft.
2000/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19739 Activity:insanely high
11/12   The paragraph third from the bottom is my favorite.  They've
        certified 800 more votes countywide in WPB than the precint by
        precint number reported from election night.  Not only are the
        dead voting, they're voting a bit late this year in WPB.
        http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=65000590
        \_ Do you actually understand the failure rates of mechanical
           punch-vote systems?  A second revote, in a pure mechanical-
           system, will certify more votes.  A hand recound will get
           even more.
           \_ You you understand no one from any party was claiming any sort
              of mechanical failure?  Did you see Lepore this morning make it
           \_ Do you understand no one from any party was claiming any sort
              of mechanical failure?  Did you see LePore this morning make it
              clear this was voter error and not in any way machine error?
              LePore is the Democrat who designed the ballot and one of the 3
              Democrats on the WPB board that voted to do a full hand recount.
              Recount the whole state or none of it.  Shit happens everywhere.
                \_ I think the democrats would be quite happy to recount the
                   whole state.  It's clear that there's a mechanical error;
                   two mechanical counts arrived at significantly different
                   numbers, and then a test count by hand found even more of a
                   discrepancy.  That's separate from the ballot design issue.
                   -tom
                   \_ That depends on what your definition of "significant" is.
                      Or was that "is is"?  I have trouble keeping up.  And of
                      course a partisan committee found "even more of a
                      discrepancy".  The Dems know exactly how many more votes
                      they need to steal to rob the election.  I'm still bitter
                      that Gore stole my man's votes.  -N'04!
2000/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19736 Activity:high
11/11   1% of votes counted in Palm Beach = +19 votes
        That whiny little Bush is going to shit his pants once he does some
        "fuzzy math":

                19 * 100 == ~1900 votes

        Let's face it, the machines are very bad at counting and are the only
        things supporting Bush.  Gore has the true will of the people.
        \_ Uhm, ok, let's do some more math.  That was a county that voted
           Democratic-dominated ones.
           roughly 90% Gore, 10% Bush.  Roughly 9:1.  Why is it that about
           1/3rd of the fucked up ballots went to Bush instead of Gore?  More
           first round vote fraud from the Democrats?  Why did a recount
           produce 3x as many as it should have statistically?  And while we're
           at it, let's try recounting a few heavily Republican counties....
           The only fair way to do this is either accept the first machine
           recount that was done by the machines or recount the whole friggin
           state by hand.  You can't clean up only some of your data and
           expect to get a valid result.  You get a _less_ valid result.  I
           shouldn't have to explain this to a Cal student....
           \_ Dude, get yer shit together.  First off, Palm Beach voted
              62% Gore, 36% Bush (courtesy of http://CNN.com, data taken from first
              count to get a feel for the percentages).  I'll generalize that
              Gore got 2 votes to every 1 vote Bush got in Palm Beach.  Now
              let's look at the new votes they got.  Gore got 33, Bush got 14.
              Hmm, wow, it looks like it's about a 2 to 1 ratio again.  Oh wow.
              So in general, we should see just as many non-counted ballots by
              the machines.  To me, as a Cal student, makes a lot of sense.
              As for the entire state recounting by hand, I say GO FOR IT!  Of
              course the Republicans realize that such a recount could (I say
              could, not would) make them lose, so they are scared of such a
              notion.  And yes, the votes will even out if the entire state was
              counted.  But I have a hunch that more Democrats are less likely
              to punch the holes cleanly and make sure the chad drops.  Let's
              face it, Republicans are typically a bit more in tune to such
              technical things, and are also typically a cleaner and tidier
              group of people.  Yes, that's a stereotype, but hey, that's all
              elections ever come down to anyway.  So go suck it with this
              "_less_ valid result" bullshit.  I want accuracy, not politics.
                -phale, the original poster who finds himself forgetting to
                clean up all of the chad he leaves behind
        \_ They should do a recount in every county then, not just the
           Democrat-dominated ones.
           \_ Yes, that would be the fair thing to do
        \_ Not everyone wants to get gored.
           \_  Good point.  Whereas everybody loves to get a little bush.
               \_ I personally don't want to get dick
                        \_ I uhm, want, uh... GO GREEN!  -N'04!
        \_ PB County is actaully about 2:1 Gore. http://www.pbcelections.org
                \_ Correct.  The precincts they chose to reinterpret
                   were 90:10.
2000/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19731 Activity:moderate
11/11   Back to election talk:  Someone asked on wall why they didn't
        use the touch screens that Riverside had.  Here's a quote from
        a cnn article:
        But the technical standards for elections and the conduct of
        elections in the United States that we are all seeing graphically
        and clearly for the first time are that it's extremely decentralized.
        It operates at the state level, rather than the federal level. In fact,
        most of the job of the elections in putting everything in place, even
        to the point of designing and printing the ballots, is done at the
        level of county and local jurisdictions.
        There's a beauty to that, in that it's a safeguard against any attempt
        to take over or manipulate the election system in national elections.
        On the other hand, what we are seeing is that it also leads to some
        uneven quality standards and not a following across the board of best
        practices or of use of best available technology.
        \_ Look at the ballot and tell me what was so damn confusing:
           http://www.jokeslayer.com/Pictures/FloridaBallot.gif
        \_ I might have been the one you were talking about, and I'm fully
           aware that the elections are run by the states and not the
           feds, but apart from not being able to write in candidates
           (someting I'm sure will be fixed within the next two years),
           the touch screen system they had in Riverside was everything
           you could want.  -hjkim
           \_ So what was so great about the touch screens?  I haven't seen
              them and know nothing about them.
              \_ from what I've seen/heard: it's not confusing and it
                 doesn't tie the voter to a specific polling location
                 \_ I didn't find the WPB ballot confusing either so maybe
                    this isn't as useful as it sounds.  Frankly, I think we
                    *want* to ditch the ballots of anyone too stupid to vote
                    correctly.  This is a good thing, not bad.
2000/11/11 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19726 Activity:nil
11/10   Say hello to President Gore.

        Gore is particularly interested in Broward County, where
        Democrats contend up to 6,700 ballots were punched, but not all
        the way through, preventing machines from counting them.  ``Al
        Gore carried Broward County with more than 60 percent of the
        vote,'' an aide said. ``We believe a hand recount will put most
        of those 6,700 ballots in our column and Al Gore on top.''
        \_ It's interesting how most of these ballots with punchhole
           problems seem to be for Gore.
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19719 Activity:nil
11/10   DO OVER!  Let all military personel get another chance to vote!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20001110_xnjdo_congressma.shtml

        Or... we could all just accept that elections have always been kinda
        fucked, shit happens, try better next time, let it stand and move on.
                --Nader'04!
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19716 Activity:nil
11/10   NEWSFLASH: The official FL vote count is Bush+960 (or so) with 2
        yet to report.  This isn't AP or VNS.  It's the numbers from the
        real thing.  And of course an unknown number of overseas yet to
        arrive over the next few days.
        \_ Give EXACT source for these things
                \_ Sorry.  It was on cnn and other cable channels.  Every one
                   of the national news cable stations had it.  cnn, msnbc,
                   cbs, etc.  Take your pick.  They're all getting this from
                   the same source so it hardly matters which you listen to.
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19713 Activity:nil
11/10   http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111000d.shtml
        Non-citizens voting?  How can this be?
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19712 Activity:nil
11/10   http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/10/latimes.election.official
        For those of you wondering why all vote counts have been
        increasing in the recount.
        \_ Quote remove in the interst of space. Go to the URL if you
           care. Summary: punchcard machines don't work right if you
           fail to read directions and punch out your ballot without
           making sure the little piece of paper gets separated from
           the ballot.
2000/11/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19708 Activity:high
11/9    Ok, looking at a close-up of the disputed Palm Beach ballot, WTF
        is the problem?? The "5->" clearly points to one hole.
        \_ the problem is you are looking at the ballot knowing that
           there is an issue.
           \_ Ok, suppose I'm a Palm Beach resident. I go into the booth
              not knowing there's any problem, and knowing I want to vote
              for Gore. How could I possibly punch "<-4" and not "5->"?
              \_ I see Gore is second, so I punch the second hole.
                   \_ it was set up with the intention of confusing voters
                      that don't bother reading the ballot.  I mean, why the
                      hell the second major opponent (whether democratic
                      or republican) be "the third hole?!!!"  Most normal
                      ballots have the two major political forces as the
                      first two holes.  I smell a conspiracy...as pointed
                      out on television, why would this type of ballot only
                      exist in a county there the majority of residents
                      (blacks and jewish) are pro-Gore?  It doesn't add up.
                      \_ A conspiracy?  Uhm, yeah.  The ballot was created by
                         Democrats.  Approved by Democrats.  Published in the
                         newspapers.  What friggin conspiracy?  This wasn't
                         a hidden secret ballot popped up out of nowhere on
                         the unsuspecting populace.  And while you're at it,
                         please explain how this conspiracy has changed the
                         results in other places like, oh, say, the exact same
                         ballot format where Jesse Jackson and "My Dad Stole
                         1960" Daley voted?
                      \_ apart from the much publicized "x to the right of
                         the name," the fact that Gore was the third hole
                         might also make the ballot illegal since Florida
                         law dictates that the candidates be listed in the
                         order of finish in the last gubernatorial race,
                         and I'm pretty sure the Reform Party didn't finish
                         second
                         \_ NO! NO! NO!  GO READ THE LAW!  Stop getting your
                            news off the tube!  *I* _read_ the law and it does
                            *not* in any way dictate any such thing!  Stop
                            spreading lies and propoganda!  --Nader'04!
                 \_ Well, nowhere in the Constitution does it say voters have
                    to have any intelligence to vote. It's their own damn
                    fault for not reading & understanding the ballot clearly.
                    \_ Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that
                       voters should be given illegal ballots.
                       \_ its not illegal.  Forms like that have been
                          used in the past, and the Democratic Official
                          for that area approved that ballot.
                          \_ Gore people are working to prove that it
                             is illegal.  I think that's as much as can
                             be said on the pro-Gore side.  And control
                             yourself next time, Senor "Prove it, bitch".
                             \_ That's a much different (and weaker) assertion
                                than "Florida law says it's illegal."  Why
                                not admit you simply did not speak the truth?
                                Bitch.
                                \_ People like you need to sign their names.
                                   Really.
                                   \_ Nah.  He just need a good bitch slap.
                             \_ Some of us (me) actually found the law on the
                                official Florida website.  The idea that this
                                ballot was in any way illegal is a sham.
                                \_ Actually, it is technically illegal. By
                                   Florida state law, the Democratic option
                                   was supposed to be placed where Pat
                                   Buchanan's spot was (which wasn't the case).
                                   See S101.151(4) and S101.191(1999)
                                   \_ Go re-read the entire law.  This is not
                                      so.  Don't pick and choose individual
                                      lines that support a particular
                                      conclusion.  The lawyers get paid a lot
                                      more than you to do that already.
        \_ It's 95% clear, that is, it was clear to 95% of Gore voters
           in Palm Beach.
        \_ also, it penalizes only stupid gore supporters.  stupid bush
           supporters were not given the same dilemma.
           \_ There was no dilemma, only people too stupid to vote.
              \_ But they are able to vote.  Some of them must support Bush.
                 Those ones didn't have to be smart enough to read directions.
                 Besides, with a margin of 0.01% or so, the too-stupid-too-vote
                 probably make the difference.
                 \_ You really want the "too-stupid-too-vote" people deciding
                    who the President is?  Honestly, if this was the exact same
                    situation except the names were reversed would you be saying
                    the vote in Hicktown, USA should get another chance bcause
                    Bubba was still hungover from his moonshine binge?  No,
                    you probably wouldn't.  Don't let your political bias color
                    your decision making process.  --Nader'04!
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19697 Activity:nil
11/9    I know this is unlikely (and not related to current election), but
        what happens if there is a tie, either in the popular vote within a
        state (barring voting irregularities, inconsistencies, ballot
        stuffing, etc) or at electoral state level?
        \_http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/toc.html
        \_ I think that it goes to the house.
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19687 Activity:high
11/9    In regards to the presidential race, check out ~dpetrou/petition.
        \_ Don't be stupid.  We don't have grade school "do-overs" in this
           country because some morons can't read.  In fact, I find it
           frightening that anyone would seriously consider as valid the
           opinion of someone so stupid they can't figure out how to punch
           out a ballot properly.  There *is* a minimum requirement in this
           country to vote.  You must be able to poke the right hole and only
           one hole.  If you can't do something *that* simple your
                \_ look, even aspo, an otherwise intelligent individual, can't
                   figure out that he's been poking the wrong hole all along
           \_ What if we have a legally enforced 'do-over'?
           vote gets tossed out.  Give it up.  This is a Gore pipe dream.
           \_ The ballot form looks reasonably clear to me.  - Gore supporter
        \_ The other equitable, but probably not legal, option would be
           to take the ballots which selected multiple candidates and
           give each candidate selected a fractional vote.
           \_ That's not fair, then Gore would win.
           \_ then i would want to switch my vote from nader to bush if they
              get to do that crap.
              \_ it would be hillarious if there were three rounds of,
                 "Okay, now whoever wants to switch votes, do so now"

{deleted a few older threads to save space, not to censor them}
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19683 Activity:nil
11/9    Maybe they're Pat's votes after all....
        http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment110900c.shtml
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19678 Activity:high
11/8    Perhaps the electoral college should be changed to give each
        candidate the number of electoral votes proportional to the
        percentage of popular vote they win in that state. This would
        make things a lot more exciting and the outcome of this
        election wouldn't hang on a few thousand votes in FL.
        \_ Why?  Fuck that, use the popular vote.
            \_ Fuck the popular vote.  We live in the United
               **STATES** of America, not the Undifferentiated Blob of
               America.  We don't want something like the following
               happening: I was in IL for '96 Senate election.
               Repub. won _every_ county; except, that is, Cook County
               (where Chicago is) which is so huge and so
               pro-Demo. that the Demo. won the election.
            \_ More exiciting. Ties will be more common, making the
               houses' role in elections important.
                   \_ with the advent of the whole internet thing, we'll
                      all hopefully be able to go back to a popular vote
                      system using email.  a big important factor will be
                      security and preventing tampering with the system.
                      \_ "a big important factor will be security and
                          preventing tempering with the system." G'duh.  And
                          you advocate this over e-mail?  Please don't
                          procreate.
                          \_ Actually, voting over the internet has the
                             potential to be much more secure than voting
                             like we do now. -crypto grad student
        \_ After reading some articles by constitutional lawyers, I think
           that the Electoral College works well a designed. The founding
           fathers wanted to ensure that large centers of population in a
           few states did not dictate federal policy for all states. I'm
           still amazed by the effectiveness of the constitution and of
           the foresight demonstrated by the founding fathers.
           \_ Can you explain a little bit more as to how one (Electoral
              College) leads to the other (large centers of population not
              dictating federal policy for all states)?  It's not
              apparent to me.
              \_ Candidates would only need to visit big cities to win
                 the popular vote, ignoring the backwater hick-states
              One problem I have with Electoral College, is that when
              pupular election, I will feel that my vote always matters.
              I am in a state clearly leaning one way or another, I
              don't feel that my vote counts, whereas if it is a
              popular election, I will feel that my vote always matters.
              \_#t, esp. in CA. The only way individual CA votes mattered
                in this election was that they tipped the popular vote,
                which is meaningful, yet irrelevant to the EC president
                selection system.
             \_ CA wasn't the best example. It was getting sort of close,
                and Gore had some last minute worries about CA.

You have new mail.
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19675 Activity:nil
11/8    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2000/11/08/politics2207EST1052.DTL&type=election
        For those who don't read the wallog. It's about the 19,000
        ballots thrown out in Palm Beach Florida.
2000/11/7 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19662 Activity:high
11/6   i no longer live in california.  what absurd propositions are on the
       ballet this year? (most entertaining only please.)
        \_ There's a proposition to state fund the CSUA and Trevor
           Buckingham's hot gay sex brothel.
        \_ Ballot. Pathetic from a Cal alum posting on a machine with
           dict installed. Glad you're not voting here. --dim
2000/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:19644 Activity:high
11/3    Support yer CSUA gals! Support Lila Patton and vote on
        <DEAD>www.amiahotbabe.com!!!<DEAD>
        \_ ew.
           \_ to the site or to Lila?
              \_ To each his/her own.
        \_ is that you, kchang?
        \_ "unable to locate the server <DEAD>www.amiahotbabe.com"<DEAD>
        \_ do you mean http://amihotornot.com?
2000/10/31 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19610 Activity:nil
10/30   Vote how much bull you think the candidates are saying.
        http://politics.bayarea.com/election/docs/bull_question2.html
2000/10/31 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19605 Activity:low
10/30   vote anarchy
        \_ a vote for anarchy is a vote for yermom
        \_ vote cthulhu, why choose the lesser of two evils, when you
           can choose evil itself.
2000/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19598 Activity:very high
10/29   Regarding all this voting stuff, urls, opinions, etc.  Since at least
        80% of sodans aren't going to vote, what's the point in discussing it
        or bitching about the candidates?  Is this just one of those motd
        things?
           \_ I believe that the 20% who are going to vote (or have already
              voted) discuss their points of view on the motd. The honest
              exchange of ideas (and opinions) is a good, our republic
              was founded on it and sustains itself from it. ----ranga
              \_ Vote Early. Vote Often.
        \_ Speak for yourself.  I am going to vote.
           \_ And this is why I'd prefer if even more of you *didn't* vote.
              Did I say "100%"?  Nooooo....  If you can't read and understand
              a simple sentence, you shouldn't be voting.  -original poster
           \_ keep in mind that 50%+ of the Sodans are _ineligible_ to vote as
              non-citizens.
              \_ Where do you get this information? --PeterM
                 \_ observation
                        \_ There was a green card check to join the CSUA?
                 \_ Based on the publically available list of known Sex
                    Offenders. Felons can't vote AIR.
2000/10/25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Humor] UID:19561 Activity:nil
10/24   Vote:
        User Friendly:  ..
        Dilbert:        .
        \_ what are these two voting for the worst comic stip of the decade?
        Megatokyo:      .
        Crack-ho magzn: .
          (yermom, that is)
        Kevin and Kell (http://www.kevinandkell.com .
        Blondie: .
2000/10/25 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19560 Activity:high
10/24   I bought something AS IS on eBay and it doesn't work. Is it legal
        (moral?) to resell it AS IS?
        \_ if you know it's defective and don't identify it as such,
           it's neither legal nor moral.  -tom
        \_ tom's opinion deleted.
           \_ BS. Caveat Emptor. If you say AS IS, only someone who is
              a total idiot would assume that it works. If you say AS IS
              it may or may not work, then you cannot be held legally
              responsible.
           \_ On the legal grounds, what are you using to support that it
              is illegal? On moral grounds, the device was $500... is the
              correct moral thing to do claim that it is not in working
                \_ Certainly that would be correct morally.  There are plenty
                   of legal grounds for being able to collect damages from
                   people who knowingly sell defective products.  -tom
              condition and get what I can for it (maybe $250)?
                \_ tom's opinion not respected
                           \_ Yes, but only if they do not state AS IS,
                              (perhaps working, perhaps not). And its
                              stupid to sell it for less than you bought
                              it. If some sucker is willing to pay you
                              for a broken POS more power to you.
                                \_ say no to tom
                                \_ look, troll, we know you're a stupid
                                   coward, but it's trivially obvious that
                                   selling known defective merchandise is
                                   actionable fraud, whether or not you
                                   say "as-is."  -tom
                        \_ In California, you are now legally required to
                           tell a potential buyer if your house is
                           haunted...
                \_ Yeah, but usually it just comes down to them
                   saying "it worked when it shipped" and then
                   your ass collecting the insurance money
                   from the post office...
                   \_ That's lying. It's illegal (insurance fraud) and
                      immoral.
2000/10/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Health/Men, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19538 Activity:nil
10/20   Screw Gore and Bush and especially Pat. Vote Quimby
        http://www.quimby2000.com
        \_ I'm voting Vader: <DEAD>www.vaderfor2000.org<DEAD>
        \_ Well, look at how cool you are you hedonistic pinkhaired
           shitkitten. God forbid should you have an original thought lest
           in a somewhat related fit of your disrobed, impotent wisdom
           you take to trollying in public your hamster-shaming gonads
           with your ridiculeworthy genetalia as your mindless little
           heart bleeds amidst my laughter to the current of your own
           excretions... smeltsucking infantfelcher. - (fucker)
           \_ Welcome back. We've missed you.
2000/10/5 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19413 Activity:insanely high
10/4    Don't forget to REGISTER to vote before 10/10!
        \_ This time, try registering nonpartisan.  Gets them republicrats all
           in a tizzy.
           \_ Uh no. - registered republican
        \_ What's the easiest way to register? Post Office? or should I
           just stand on Sproul and wait for someone to come by asking me to
           sign a petition.             - unregistered
           \_ Wait for one of the main annoying absentee ballot forms to
              show up in your mailbox. Fill it out and then you can vote
              in the privacy of your own home. In fact fill one out for
              your friends, and help them all make the "informed" decision
              they might otherwise not make.
2000/9/29-10/1 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19374 Activity:high
9/29    Question for all the taiwanese members of soda. Why do most
        citizens of taiwanese background keep voting democrat despite
        the fact that democrats are setup to surrender taiwans freedom
        to RED china.  Similarly, why do jews vote democrat even when
        it is apparent that democrats want to give as much of israel
        as possible to the arabs?
        \_ don't generalize; most citizens of taiwanese background don't vote;
           they're too rich to give a shit
        \_ don't generalize; most citizens of taiwanese background don't
           vote; they're too rich to give a shit
        \_ don't generalize; most citizens of taiwanese background
           don't vote; they're too rich to give a shit
        \_ Poor stupid fool: you're confusing political beliefs
           on the American liberal/conservative deficrat/rejectican
                 dictate what Israel does, you are severly misguided.
           scale with economic systems. Go back to preschool and
           buy a clue from those as ignorant as you.
        \_ Hmmm... Nice troll.  What are you suggesting, that jews
           should vote Republican and get in bed with Chrisitian
           Coalition?
           \_ Not all republicans are christians.
              \_ And not all Christians are part of the Christian
                 Coalition
              \_ Of course, but that's not the point.  Republicans
                 it's a very complex issue, and if you think USA can
                 dictate what Israel does, you are severely misguided.
                 \_ Yeah but without all the US support Israel gets it would
                     be hard pressed to continue to exist.
                 represent more conservative (in some dimensions)
                 forces; jews tend to be more liberal.  As for Israel
                 -- it's a very complex issue, and if you think USA
                 can dictate what Israel does, you are severely
                 misguided.
                 \_ Yeah but without all the US support Israel gets it
                    would be hard pressed to continue to exist.
                    \_ And then the nukes would fly! (or more correctly,
                       be driven to their destination) WooHoo! Onward to
                       the valley of Megiddon! Let's see if those new
                       testament wussies are really right.
        \_ The question "why don't Jews vote republican" shows such
           a fundamental lack of understanding about Judaism and Jewish
           culture that is not really possible to answer it.
                 \_ not to mention there are plenty of jews who don't
                    agree with isreal's politics.  Oh and BTW isreal
                    could survive without US intervention these days.
                    \_ not from a military standpoint. u.s. companies
                       equip much of israel. their sales are subject to
                       u.s.government approval. and some stuff have not
                       been ok. the fact israel has nukes is also in no
                       small part to the u.s.
        \_ Maybe because said taiwanese & jews care more about what the
           politicians want to do to this country since it affects them
           directly, and no matter what they say, it won't really affect
           taiwan & israel directly.
        \_ To know the answer, go and read their public forums.
           The answer is pretty silly.  I got depressed reading them.
        \_ The question "why don't Jews vote Republican" shows such
           a fundamental lack of understanding about Judaism that it
           is not really possible to answer it.
           \_ Nowhere in my question do I ask why they don't vote
              Republican, rather my interest is in determining why
              the insist on voting democrat. There are other alternatives
              to the democratic party.
2000/9/26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Media] UID:19327 Activity:nil
9/25    <DEAD>www.vaderfor2000.org<DEAD>  - vote for vader!
2000/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19074 Activity:nil
8/22    Any reason why I should/should not join California Alumni Association?
        \_ there is exactly one reason: this is the cheapest way to have
           access to the uc berkeley library after you graduate.  if you join
           you get a card automatically, and to get a library card as
           justa random person (they dont give a fuck that you are an
           alum unless you join) is about twice as expensive.
          \_ You can get discounts on membership to RSF too, but it's still
             over $40 a month.
2000/8/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:19066 Activity:high
8/21    Don't you think an ex-USCA co-op resident, and better yet,
        current CSUA member, would make a passable Survivor contestant?
                                                        ^contestant^actor --psb
        \_ No.  I don't.  The first 2 losers kicked off the island were the
           only 2 bay area people.  Think about that.
        \_ What are you trying to say psb?
        \_ The coops were a ZOG survivor contest.  -John
        \_ ausman!  ausman!  ausman!  ausman!
           \_ I have never even seen this show before. Think I really ought
              to apply? -ausman
              \_ I can't think of anyone more perfect, Jim.
              \_ yes.  Next show is in January.  Everybody apply!
              inmates fight one another.  I think this has happened before.
                 \_ The show will become markedly stranger if we get 3+ sodans
                    on there. Let's go everyone, apply!!!
        \_ How much of a bribe would it take to say, the Chinese government,
           to have a deathmatch-oriented survivor.  "No games.  No rules.
           No mercy.", where the contestents are encouraged to knock each
           other off?
           \_ Get a job as a California prison guard, then make the
              inmates fight one another.  "deathmatch-oriented survivor"
              is played out everyday in the prisons.  Join the fun!
              \_ there is a new reality based show coming out called
                  jailbreak.  People become prisoners and try to break
                  out of prison.
              \_ CA penal system is a bit more organized than Survivor, eh?
                 They have gangs, or one-on-ones, or "group vs.
                 child molester" altercations, which arent really the same.
                 It ends up being bigger beats smaller. Plus, it's not co-ed.
              \_ well, the winners don't get a million dollars.
           \_ They would not allow that. The kidney trade is too lucrative
              to risk damaging the goods.
        \_ USCAers would not survive unless it was a contest to "make your
           own granola" or "score some drugs". CSUAers would never survive
           unless it was a "virtual survivor" where you are a character
           in a video game. Of course both would win if it was a "how long
           can I last without showering" contest.
           \_ you call that winning?
2000/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:18648 Activity:high
7/11    Question.  I'm an out-of-state resident and I'm supposed to get
        a California driver's license because my insurance company won't
        cover me anymore.  First of all, why is the California DMV so
        slow at issuing a new license (1 month).  It's a stupid plastic
        card with a hologram on it (less sophisticated than my company
        ID which only took 5 minutes to make).  Second of all, how in the
        world are we supposed to get around for a month in situations
        where banks ask "can I see your photo ID please" when they take
        away our old licenses?
        \_ It's called a passport. Do you have one, or are you a hick?
           \_ Or a credit card with your picture on it.
        \_ tell dmv that you lost your old license.  dont know what
           california requires, but when i told the dmv here that i
           lost my cal license they told me to ask california for
           proof (which i got with a phone call and a wait of three
           weeks).  got the other state license (maryland) without
           actually giving up my california one (still valid until
           2004).          in short: tell lies and be patient.
        \_ They took your old license?  Why?  When I moved to California,
           the guy at the DMV took my out-of-state license, punched a hole
           in it (through the expiration date), handed it back to me, and
           explained that it was for exactly that reason.  I still have it.
                \_ Same here, except they put a sticker on that said something
                   like "For temporary identification use only."  -alan-
           \_ Why can't someone have both a valid license from California and
              a valid one from another state?
                \_ because states only grant licenses to residents and you
                   can't be a resident of two states at once
        \_ Looks like you should go to the private sector. BTW, it takes them
           6 months to make my card. - muchandr
           \_ But, But, But, thats becuase everyone loves you so much!
        \_ DMV gives you a piece of paper called 'Temporary Driver License'.
           Carry this around with you (yes, I know they're bulky) because
          it is a valid piece of ID. Then bring any picture ID you have; even
          it is a valid piece of ID.
          \_ No it's not; in fact it says "not valid for identification" right
             on it.  They took my NJ license when I moved here, it was very
             inconvenient.
             What's really annoying is that good drivers only have to go
             to the DMV every 12 years for a renewal, while you have to go
             in every 6 years for an ID card.  -tom
                \_It's only 5 years for good driver renewals, actually
                        \_ Nah, did mine by mail.  Been driving 15 years.
          Then bring any picture ID you have; even
          your old Cal Berkeley ID. I agree with everyone here; DMV should NOT
          have taken your out-of-state driver license but rather void the DL
          and hand it back to you. As for the argument for having TWO DLs from
          different state is due to consistency issue (I guess). Someone
          explained it to me a long time ago, just can't remember.
          \_ Finally *someone* mentioned the temporary CDL.  And yes, bring
             and use your passport until you have a CDL.
          \_ You can't buy a gun with the paper temp CDL.  Pisses me off.
                \_ I'm pro-gun but I'm glad certain people are too stupid to
                   manage to buy one.
        \_ When i was 19 and lived in the dorms, the guy down the hall
           made me a Calif Driver's License for $50. Got it in 2 days.
                \_ Yeah and then a cop runs the number and arrest your dumb
                    freshy ass.
        \_ I got my new photo ID in 15 days. And registration sticker in
           less thanthat. The DMV hates you out-of-staters, so they purposely
           sent your license to the wrong address.
2000/6/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Food, Recreation/Media] UID:18434 Activity:insanely high
4/69    I've heard of Survivor.  But is it really worth watching?
        \_ Hell yes.  Did anyone tape it last night?  Or will it be on
           again Saturday?
           \_ is it like the Real World?
             \_ Basically.  But they eat rats and nasty shit.  They have
                to dig their own latrines, work out the lack of toilet
                paper issue.  Every week one of the teams votes one of
                their own off the island.  They dramatize it and make it
                really harsh.  Good entertainment.  Richard needs to die.
                \_ It seems like most of them are pricks ... even the
                   nice ones.
                \_ Richard is homosexual... I hope this isn't why you
                   want him dead.
        \_ Gawd did anyone else see them eat the beetle larva last night?
           That was disgusting.  I can't imagine those people that seemed
           to swallow it whole.
                \-when is it on? i couldnt find it. --psb
                  \_ on Wednesdays at 8pm, CBS...and CBS is repeating it this
                     Saturday night at 10pm.  It's on the CBS homepage. --chris
        \_ I can't wait till Smash TV comes out. -geordan
2000/5/30-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:18367 Activity:very high
5/30    anyone stupid enough to join the cal alumni society know of any
        other benefits other than a stupid plate cover, another email
        address, and the constant harrassing for donations?  i thought
        about joining but there doesn't seem to be a single reason.
        -- troll baiter
                \_ What email address? -Alum soc. member
                        \_ yourname@alum.calberkeley.org
       \_ it buys you connections, but not always...
        \_ you don't need to be in the society to get constantly harassed
           for donations...   - Bitter Alum
                \_ I haven't ever been harassed, but I spent the $400
                   when I graduated to become a life member. I'm not
                   sure what its good for though, the only tangable
                   benefit (if you can call it that) for me is getting
                   the California magazine.  I'm not sure about the
                   library use though, do you need a special library
                   card or alum card? I don't have either.
           \_ I pledged $200 and then refused to send in the check.
              After 4 or 5 letters, they gave up, and never called again ever.
        \_ UC library use and rsf discounts if you are close to any of these
                - stupid cal alumni society member
                \_ I got the library use without paying.  --another cal alum
                   \_ Uh, how? -- Marco
                      \_ Uh, use your student ID. -- Polo
                      \_ Uh, use your student ID. -- Paolo
                      \_ Uh, use your student ID. -- Polo (don't change the name)
                        \_ uh, that doesn't work when you're NOT A VALID STUDENT
                      \_ I just whined and said I didn't have time to fill
                         out the forms and could I just use it the one time.
                         Always works.  New student staff everytime.
        \_ California magazine.
                \_ You're supposed to put a " :-) " after a joke.
        \_ I think they help you build up your human network for advancing
           your career, or so I read.  -- yuen
                \_ Yeah right.  You can talk to all the other fuzzy majors
                   about the latest burger flipping techniques and speed
                   filling a tank?
                   \_ hey, that info's important. --philosophy major
        \_<DEAD>www.alumni.berkeley.edu/membership/index_new.html#benefits<DEAD>
2000/4/13 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17998 Activity:kinda low
4/12    To the person who was asking about California tax law regarding
        capital gains: "California does not conform to the federal
        reduced capital gains tax rates. California taxes capital gains
        at the same rate as other types of income." From CA 540 Sched D.
        Of course, information from the motd is worth what you pay for it.
        -ausman
        \_ I see.  Thanks a bunch!
2000/4/12-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:17986 Activity:kinda low
4/12    screen-3.9.5 installed as screen.new -- it's not compatible with the
        old version, so I won't install it as screen until all the old screen
        processes are dead.  There's a list of new features (including split-
        screen support) in /csua/tmp/screen-3.9.5+idle/NEWS.  --mconst
        \_ what escape key combination have any of you found to conflict
           the least with existing programs?  C-a seems to be used quite
           often.  Also, is there a way to make the new shell start with the
           same terminal type as the shell that invoked screen (it always
           thinks the terminal type is screen, but I'd like it to be vt100
           or xterm, whichever one I started screen with).
           \_ I use CNTRL-D: alias screen="screen -e^Dd". For the term
              type I think that it is -T <type>. Just use a function:
              screen () {
                if [ -z "$TERM" ] ; then TERM=vt100 ; fi
                /usr/bin/screen -e^Dd -T "$TERM" "$@"
              }
              \_ Wow..  this person has scary ways of doing things that
                 will tend to break.  Please don't listen to them.  Use ^O.
                 Set it in your .screenrc.  Set your term to vt100 in your
                 .screenrc.   You'll be happy.
                 \_ What's wrong with Control-D? It prevents you from
                    accidentally logging out as a side effect. I prefer
                    xterm to vt100 since meta works correctly for
                    emacs -nw when term is set to vt100. Yes I mostly
                    use xterms.
                        \_ How do you wall???
                                \_ Did someone mention
                                   useless functionality? ;-)
                           \_ I never wall. On the boxes I admin, I
                              just kill everyone's processess
                              and then sync x 3 and init 5 (or 6) to
                              reboot.
                 \_ Hm, I use ^D as delete in emacs.  And ^O for various
                    other things in pine.  Any other suggestions?
                    \_ use a better mail reader
                    \_ emacs uses every key that exists and a few that don't
           \_ I use ^o ... other than it being oflush in telnet, it's
              unused. -geordan
           \_ I use the spacebar.  Since I'm only using the mouse for almost
              everything, this rarely conflicts.
2000/4/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:17971 Activity:moderate
4/11    Does California tax long-term at a lower rate than short-term capital
        gains with like the federal does?  I just filled out Form 540
        but it taxed all my capital gains as ordinary income.  Thanks.
        \_ Yeah, unfortunately that is the case when I did my taxes with
           TurboTax. :( Owed a LOT of money in Federal for cashing out an
           ESPP stock, got hit by FTB again as ordinary income. :(
        \_ You did your taxes wrong then. Long-term (stock held for more
           than one year) gains are taxed at 20%. Short-term gains are taxed
           at your income rate (probably 31 or 36%).
                \_ Max CA state income tax rate is ~9%.  You're confusing
                   state & feds.
           \_ That's what the federal tax return does, but I can't find where
              the California tax return separates long-term gains from
              short-term gains and ordinary income.
2000/3/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics] UID:17902 Activity:nil
3/30    "Whether or not AA is good is independant of the fact that Equal
        Opportunity statements are contradictory to AA.  Does anyone have
        a response to this abuse of language issue?".  First, let's take a
        specific, known institution:  UC.  See
        http://cois.chance.berkeley.edu/compliance/employ.html and
        http://www.ucop.edu/humres/policies/sp-2.html  Current UC AA is
        much different than older AA.  Older AA set quotas, less older AA
        used race/gender as a factor in addition to merit, more recent AA
        had race-limited outreach, and current AA lacks quotas, the race
        factor, and race-limited outreach, but does two things:  Promote
        an atmosphere of "equal opportunity", and maintain non-race-based
        outreach programs.  The atmosphere is created by things like:  (1)
        Appending a phrase, like "[All] Qualified applicants are
        encouraged to apply[, including women and minorities]", (2) Making
        sure the job has been publicized through women and minority
        channels in addition to the traditional ones (which may be
        accessible mainly to non-minority groups), (3) Having literature
        that says there is no discrimination (the non-discrimination
        clause in the 1st paragraph of the first URL).  The outreach
        programs used to be race-based, but because of Prop 209 should
        have been opened to all ethnic groups.  This is AA as UC currently
        implements it.  UC has no contradiction in its non-discrimination
        and AA statements.  Unfortunately I'm not sure what the nationwide
        breakdown is on AA implementation; quotas are definitely out,
        factors are discouraged to some extent, and I think race-based
        outreach is what most institutions do these days.
        http://www.dol.gov/dol/esa/public/regs/compliance/ofccp/how2/ofcpch4.h!
        shows what the federal government thinks current AA for the
        construction industry should be like; notice how similar it is to
        UC AA.
2000/3/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17852 Activity:high
3/24    ROMEO MUST DIE, 9:30pm, California Theatre
        tonight!  come one come all!
        \_ So?  Was it any good?
           \_ many people seemed to hate it but you know what, if it was a
              Hong Kong movie those same people would be raving about it.
        \_ i haven't had time to see it, but my friend gave it a positive
           review in regards to entertainment value.  Jet Li's English
           was notably good, from all sources, as compared to jackie
           chan and chow yun fat.
           \_ fun, stupid, and he says about 10 lines in english
2000/3/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/BayArea] UID:17843 Activity:high
3/23    CSUA donutsP trip to the new Krispy Kreme in Union City.
        When should we go?
        \_ Why should we go?
        \_ Krispy Kreme == decent donuts with alot of hype...
           not any better than Kingpin in my opinion.
           \_ Cold, they're not, but still warm, they crush Kingpin (even
              warm Kingpin). -dans
        \_ i might be cajoled into driving -brg
        \_ suggestion: call ahead and find out their hours for the "hot light"
           krispy kreme is in general just okay.  _except_ when they are "hot"
           then their donuts are exceptional and like nothing else out there.
           they are "hot" only during certain hours (eg between 6 am - 11 am
           and again at 6 pm - 11 pm).  what "hot" means is that they give you
           donuts that have just come out of the fryer and have just been
           glazed.  they really are _warm_ and you can still taste the eggs
           that went into them.  there is no better snack than these "hot"
           krispy kreme donuts.  they are soooo fresh! -hahnak
           \_ Is this some kind of joke or porn reference?
                \_ I was wondering the same thing....
                \_ in all likelihood it's just the initial KK elation syndrome
                   you'll be the same way once you've had your first KK donut
        \_ A few friends of mine went down there the other day and waited
           in line for 2+ hours until one guy just went up and bribed the
           first person with a dozen donuts to buy him a dozen... it seems
           like this is the way it always is there. My point: I dont think
           this warm/not-warm thing is really an issue since it seems like
           they are always making donuts to try and satisfy the huge hordes
           who could just be going to Kingpin.
                \- my guess would be the KK operation has fewer cockroaches
                than KP. seriously. the donuts are much better but that is
                admittedly a matter of taste ... unlike cockroaches, i assume
                        --psb
                        \_ hey nice job associating their donuts with the
                           filthiest creatures alive.  Asshole. - #psb#1h8r
                           \_ You are beneath the lowest of the lowliest of
                              the lowest of cockroaches!  How dare you even
                              think about the possibility of offending the
                              psb?!  When caught, you'll die by your own
                              words, you fiend!  A thousand KP cockroaches
                              force fed down your throat!  --psb #1 Fan
                              \_ !psb for president!  Why vote for a lesser
                                 evil?
                                 \_ Bah! You're reusing the Cthulhu line. Try
                                    "Vote !psb. Isn't 12 years of psb enough?"
                                        \_ It's been more than 12 years and
                                           I've been loving every minute of
                                           it!!!  --psb #1 Fan
        \_ People...it's a DONUT.  Why all the excitement?  There are
           plenty of good places for donuts if you know where to look
           without having to go to a specialty chain like KK!  Even
           that hole in the wall place on Euclid has yummy stuff to
           eat...(is it still there?)
                \_ But... but... oh nevermind.
2000/3/17 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17787 Activity:nil
3/17    Vermont passes law allowing queers the same rights as married people.
        However, unlike attempts in California, Vermont queers don't try to
        poison marriage.  Vermont queers = smart.  California queers = stupid
        selfish whining losers.  I would have voted for the Vermont law if it
        was a California proposition.  Since queers made such a fuss out of a
        simple and obvious issue like prop 22, they just lose here.  Screwed
        themselves again, as usual.
2000/3/9 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17727 Activity:nil
3/8     somebody said in the lefty-commie-liberal thread:

           Because you're a leftist and normal people are retaking the
           country.  Maybe we need to pass an initiative giving lefties 10
           votes for every normal vote?  A sort of affirmative action for
           leftists at the ballot box?  Then maybe some of that garbage
           will pass.

        what garbage exactly are you referring to?  we have to spend
        most elections trying desperately to prevent the conservative
        kneejerk scapegoating garbage from passing...
        \_ you both need to read "memoirs found in a bathtub" by stanislaw
           lem right now.
        \_ Conservative kneejerk scapegoating like legalizing pot?  Uhm...huh?
           Most propositions are heavy handed lefty big government nonsense.
           Most moderates and the right wing don't think it takes a village to
           raise a child or to collect even higher taxes to give away to the
           undeserving.  Or believe in failed socialist agenda that has
           consistently failed all over the world for almost 100 years.
        \_ The statement would have been funny if it were not true. In reality
           the lefties are trying to get exactly this sort of thing passed. See
           prop 26.
        \_ Your very words depict exactly the situation that is occuring, but
           not the way you think.  Since you're incapable of clear and
           independent though, please allow to me to spell it out for you:
           "kneejerk"ing only happens after you hit someone's knee in the first
           place.  If you stop kicking normal people's knees, we'll stop what
           you call kneejerking.  Scapegoating is a lefty agenda item.  "Oh!
           Woe is me!  I'm a minority and I need $150m spent in my SF
           neighborhood in reparations!  And oh woe!  All blacks (_not_
           hyphenated-Americans) need reparations, too!  Everything is someone
           else's fault!  Da Whitey Man dun it too me!  Kill Whitey!  Only Da
           Whitey Cracka Man kan be racist!"  Your kneejerk label is obviously
           intended to paint anyone who disagrees with you as unthinking and
           reflexive, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  Maybe the
           2/3rds of the voting public is just stupid and fascist and evil
           and shouldn't have the right to vote or first amendment rights
           along with those lefty affirmative action voting rights?  You plan
           on voting for that traitor Al Gore who took foreign money in trade
           for selling out his country?
2000/3/8 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17716 Activity:very high
3/8     How come everything I vote for gets defeated and everything I
        vote against passes?
        \_ Um, because you're (by definition) in the minority?
        \_ Because you're a leftist and normal people are retaking the
           country.  Maybe we need to pass an initiative giving lefties 10
           votes for every normal vote?  A sort of affirmative action for
           leftists at the ballot box?  Then maybe some of that garbage
           will pass.
           \_ You laugh, but a person I know suggested just that.
              \_ Was he a leftist? Its the sort of thing that a leftist
                 would suggest. And when did we start calling them leftists
                 rather than using proper terms like PUTRID COMMIE SCUM
                 or REDS?
                 \_ Commie mutant traitors!
                 \_ that menace has passed. The current watchwords should
                    probably be: QUEER GODLESS BONDAGE FAERIES!
           \_ "normal people are retaking the country." this is one of the
              more ridiculous delusions I've heard from a conservative for a
              while.  Thinking that people should be free to choose who they
              marry, whether or not a woman should have the right to choose
              to have a baby or not makes us black-blooded pinko commie reds.
              Oh, the moral degradation.  Society is going to crumble under
              the torrent of porn and bomb-making instructions that the
              subversive liberals are unleashing over the internet. Man, I
              guess everyone should want to be a normal, red-blooded,
              church-going, other-hating, trolling white male like you. -dans
              \_ Uh oh, the lefties are sticking words in someone else's mouth
                 again.  Where did I say anything about the right to choose?
                 Lost on the marriage proposal by crushing numbers so you have
                 to duck and weave and change the topic?  Typical Clintonite.
                 No one said anything about internet first amendment rights or
                 going to church or being white or being male or church going
                 or anything else.  How easy to stick a label on something to
                 make it easily smearable rather than talking openly and
                 honestly about your agenda to bring about a 'do anything
                 you want and screw everyone else' society.  You need some new
                 labels.  Your old labels are all worn out and used up.  No one
                 cares about your thought control 'political correctness' crap
                 anymore.  Thankfully the poison of SF hasn't spread to the
                 rest of the state and now it's clear it never will.
                 \_ All I did was extend your (flawed) logic out to its
                    natural conclusion.  If you don't like that conclusion,
                    perhaps you should rethink your assumptions.  And, since
                    you're talking about putting words in peoples' mouths and
                    slapping labels on people, how did I begin a Clintonite,
                    and a typical one at that?  As usual, your logic has more
                    holes than swiss cheese.  Let me know when you have a
                    well reasoned argument instead of "you called me a name,
                    I'm telling on you!" for a response. -dans
                        \_ No. You brought up isues and claimed they were my
                           positions and then slammed me for them.  Tell me,
                           who'd you vote for in the last 2 elections?  Was it
                           Bush/Dole, Clinton/Clinton, or the Communist party
                           candidate?
              \_ yeah, whatever happened to "to each his own"?
                 \_ But, honey, if people of the same sex can have loving
                    marriages, it will reveal what a truly shallow and weak
                    relationship we have, and then I'd have to divorce you.
                    Now get back down there.
                        \_ Have a cookie, troll.  Now go run along and play.
                 \_ Have your own.  Don't call it marriage.  Go pass a bill
                    to give yourself the same civil rights but don't call it
                    marraige.  You'll get higher taxes, divorce court, child
                    support issues and all the rest of it.
                   \_ Um, child support?
                        \_ You weren't aware gay people can both adopt children
                           and are still biologically capable of it as well?  I
                           said child support and meant it.  Think it through.
                           \_ Yeup. Now hopefully we can pass a law to stop
                              that travesty of nature as well.
2000/3/8 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17712 Activity:nil
3/7     where can I see current proposition results online?
        \_ Typically you have to wait until the polls close.  That's 5pm on the
           East Coast.  Check any website (CNN, local tv station/paper) for
           results after that.
           \_ That's 11pm east coast, unless you mean east coast of Maui
              8pm PST. 7:50 BKST
        \_ http://vote2000.ss.ca.gov starting at 8pm
2000/3/7 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17707 Activity:nil
3/7     DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!
        \_ what if you forgot to register?
2000/3/6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17705 Activity:nil
3/6     VOTE TUESDAY YOU APATHEIC MORONS
        \_ what, is there an election tomorrow
2000/3/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17684 Activity:nil
3/2     http://news.excite.com/news/r/000303/03/japan-suicide
        Nothing wrong in the this boy's life yet he tosses himself out the
        window.  Vote No on Prop 22!
2000/2/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/BayArea] UID:17524 Activity:high
2/16    more disturbing than the other la story:
        http://www.latimes.com/news/front/20000215/t000014741.html
        \_ Yeah.  And the California politicians are trying to get
           handguns out of the hands of private citizens so THESE
           bozos can protect us (!?).  "Uh, I dunno, I just shot him."
           Apparently one needs a gun not only to protect oneself
           from the criminals, but from the police as well. -- ilyas
           \_ Thank you for another impecably reasoned post, ilyas! You
           \_ Thank you for another impeccably reasoned post, ilyas! You
              are an inspiration, an example for the rest of of us
              \_ It's 'impeccably,' my illiterate, cowardly friend.
                 At any rate, feel free to trust the police and the
                 government if you wish.  I am sure they have your best
                 interests at heart. -- ilyas
              motd slobs to aspire to! Thank you! -- ilyas' #2 fan
        \_ This is all libertarian propoganda from the anti-police LA media.
           You don't seriously believe the LA Times can get a story like this
           right, do you?  --long time LA resident and LA Times reader
                       \_ ignore paolo.  he knows nothing about anything, yet
                          jumps at any chance to display his ignorance.
                 \_ It says that you *DELIBERATELY CHOOSE* not to live in a
                    crime-free, corruption-free, pollution-free, traffic-jam-
                    free ecotopia like the beautiful San Francisco Bay Area!
                    So you must be brain-dead and you deserve every bad thing
                    you get, you yuppie-scum, urban-sprawling, single-
                    occupant-vehicle-driving Southern Californian, you!
                    \_ traffic-jam-free?  Has the Bay Area changed that much
                       since I was at Cal? -emin
                        \_ That was sarcasm and deserved paolo bashing.
              \_ wow paolo, you almost managed to eke out a tiny and entirely
                 personal attack which completely ignored my point about the
                 trash that is the LA Times.  Come back when you have mastered
                 something beyond the "sticks and stones".
           \_ I wouldn't trust the police if I were you.  The police is not
              your friend. -- !sky
                \_ Sky?  Is that you?  I thought you were in Europe with the
                   guys you met in prison?
           \_ the fact that you choose to live in LA speaks alot about
              yourself. -paolo
              \_ It does? What does it say? --dim (also LA resident)
                 \_ It says paolo is the kind of person who says "alot".
                 \_ But whatever its faults, the LA Times still beats out the
                    SF Comical.  The only time I was ever thankful for the
                    Chron/Ex combination was during the two summers I lived in
                    New Mexico and my only choice of paper was the *Albuquerque
                    Journal* (which consisted entirely of AP/Reuters pieces and
                    "local color" articles -- "This Sunday: 10,000 More Things
                    You Can Do With Chili Peppers!")
                           and other lesser places.  Other local pieces focus
                        \_ I cancelled my Comical subscription years ago.  They
                           dump a free one on my door every time the delivery
                           guy changes and the paper never gets any paper.  It
                           isn't much different from the Albuquerque Journal.
                           The Comical is AP/Reuters pieces shredded to fit
                           and local color articles about how SF is the
                           greatest city in the world (according to local
                           pollsters :-) ) and much better than NYC, SJ, LA,
                           and other lesser places.
                           \_ but they're right on that one.
                           Other local pieces focus
                           on the politcally correct and evils of the center
                           and right wing.  I'd rather read about chili peppers.
                           At least that would be informative.  Does the AJ
                           deliver out here?  :-)
2000/2/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17410 Activity:moderate
2/2     Less than one week left to register to vote in the March elections.
        \_ Oh?  Thanks.  Amazing that the motd can actually be good for
           something at times.
        \_ http://vote2000.ss.ca.gov to see who & what there is to vote
                 for/against on March 7
2000/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:17377 Activity:high 75%like:17372 75%like:17378
1/29    Vote for your favourite CSUA male:
        phillip         2
        lila            1
        \_ is this because i talk about my penis so much?  -lila
           \_ there you go again
        kane            5
        tom             1
        elm             1
        psb!            1       - psb #1 fan
                                \_ You are *not* the --psb #1 Fan  --psb #1 Fan
        Fuzzy Bunny     1080388899039883710298775773838102-3@782898.30923$3!!!
        !psb            100
2000/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:17373 Activity:insanely high 75%like:17378
1/29    Vote for your favorite CSUA female:
        -lila           1.6
        -reeser         42
        -chris          -10 * i
        -kchang         port 6667
        -kiersten       1
        -ahm            1
        -jkoh           1
        -sony           3
        -tjb            1 for each professor who wants hot gay sex with tjb
        -alissa         1
2000/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:17372 Activity:high 75%like:17377
1/29    Vote for your favorite CSUA male:
        phillip         2
        lila            1
        kane            5
        tom             1
        elm             1
        psb!            1       - psb #1 fan
        !psb            100
        \_ is this because i talk about my penis so much?  -lila
        kane            5
        tom             1
        elm             1
        psb!            1       - psb #1 fan
        !psb            100
1999/12/29-2000/1/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:17120 Activity:moderate
12/29   Does anyone remember the name of the city (located in Northern
        California) where they use their own printed money? And the name
        of their currency? I think it is called something like EcoDollar
        or EcoMoney or something like that.
        \_ Don't the Feds get really angry when people do that?
           \_ Depends on how they do it.  A system of IOU's and promisary
              notes isn't illegal.
              \_ you have to pay taxes on them though right?
                \_ No idea.  I'm guessing no.
                 \_ umm, I tihnk the government would crush them then
                   \_ Depends.  If it's just IOU's there's no income.  This is
                      all assuming the original post wasn't a troll anyway.
                     \_ then why don't all corperations use legally binding
                        IOUs intead of currency?   I bet it is taxable.
                        \_ If it's just IOU's what's the point?  Everyone
                           just runs up massive debts until the whole town
                           is bankrupt?  At some point the IOU's have to be
                           paid off, either with cash or in exchange for
                           something else, both of which are taxable.  The
                           IRS will go after people who use non-cash barter
                           to try and avoid taxes.
                           \_ In exchange for other IOU's, items, or services.
                              Yes, there was an economy before the IRS and
                              before cash.
1999/12/24-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:17098 Activity:high
12/23   All pro-child molestor spew from aspo & bh on down has been removed.
        Don't get confused.  This was intentional.  If you think this is a
        troll, I don't care.  aspo and bh sicken me.
        \_ what were they saying that i missed?  -- swings
                \_ read ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v to escape the censorship of
                        this loser.
        \_ advocating gay marriage is child molester crap? -aspo
           \_ No, it was sickening spew.  Go read mehlhaff's file if you care.
                \_ Summary: Same-sex marriage is the wrong answer.  Removing
                            government involvment/benefits from marriage is
                            better.
                            \_ you know there are non governemnt benefits
                               to being married.  For instance my spouse gets
                               my health care if I get married.   That has
                               nothing to do with the government. -aspo
                                \_ Someone please tell me exactly what these
                                   so called 'benefits' are?  You'd like the
                                   option for unmarried couples to pay more
                                   taxes?  What government benefits?  -married
                                        \_ Automatic inheritance.  Much better
                                           odds of being allowed to adopt a
                                           child or even retain custody of your
                                           own children.  Insurance coverage.
                                           \_ Automatic inheritance?  No thanks.
                                              Any idea how screwed you get if
                                              there's no will?  Adopt?  Some
                                              crack child?  Yeah right.  Retain
                                              custody?  Why would I have lost
                                              it if I had it in the first
                                              place?  Insurance: your company
                                              just sucks.  Mine allows me to
                                              add anyone I want if I pay.  Or
                                              even better is that my wife works
                                              and has her own insurance, so I
                                              still don't see the BFD deal here.
                        \_ Unfortunately, marriage is also associated with
                           the "right" to be parents in many peoples minds.
                           To truly fix the system, the state should declare
                           marriage a religious ceremony it no longer has
                           anything to do with, and make all people who want
                           the traditional marriage benefits sign a
                           domestic partnership contract (gets rid of the
                           whole pre-nup mess as well, since that would be
                           included in the contract).  Those who want to be
                           parents should be required to get a license,
                           everyone else given mandatory birth control.  Then
                           you've taken both religion & genetics out of the
                           picture, and prevented a whole lot of unwanted
                           pregnancies and children born to people who can't
                           or won't take care of them.
                           \_ Mandatory birth control?  Are you nuts?  You want
                              a government controlled eugenics program?!  This
                              doesn't sound like Nazi-ism to you?  Aren't you
                              now just 'fixing the problem' (as you see it)
                              with an even more nightmarish solution?  Right
                              now marriage confers a few minor benefits. In
                              your Orwellian hell, The State suddenly has
                              insanely powerful new controls over the average
                              citizen.  I'm no Libertarian but you're way way
                              waaaaaay whacko.  Please tell me this was a
                              troll and that I don't share the planet with
                              anyone who really thinks like this.
                                \_ Did you ever read "A Simple Proposal" in
                                   high school?  Did you think he really
                                   meant it or was it "just a troll"?
                                   \_ Do you mean Swift's "A Modest Proposal"
                                      (Babies as gourmet dish) or are you
                                      referring to something else?  Purely
                                      literary curiosity. -dans
                                   \_ Yes I read it but the above was not
                                      written in the same tone or style.
                \-A simple plan + a modest proposal = a simple proposal --psb
                              \_ oh yeah right, we should just leave everyone
                                 with the ability to have kids, and penalize
                                 them if they act irresponsibly with that
                                 ability.  A pity the government could not
                                 do the same with the ability to own guns.
                                 \_ "we"?  Which we?  I don't want _you_ to
                                    decide if _I_ can have kids and I doubt you
                                    want me to make the same decision for you.
                                    \_ If you're gay, YOU CANT "have kids".
                                       Your only options are to pervert nature
                                       even more.
                                    The whole idea is truly scary.  Since when
                                    is the Government the best decision making
                                    body for how citizens should live their
                                    lives?  Did you grow up in the United
                                    States of America?  And, no, there's no
                                    real penalty in this country for doing a
                                    shitty job raising your kids.   If you've
                                    ever dealt with the family court system
                                    you would know that.  -dealt with fcs
                                        \_ Actually, about a third of sodans
                                           did not grow up in the USA.  (Most
                                           of them apparently grew up in
                                           Russia it seems, but that's a
                                           better example of government
                                           incompetence.)
                                           \_ It shows.  Few Americans would
                                              want the government this involved
                                              in their lives.  The Founders
                                              would spin in their graves.  Much
                                              blood has been spilled to keep
                                              the government out of daily life
                                              on issues far less important.
                   ____________________________________________________/
                As a Sodan who grew up in Russia, I can tell you that
                you are seriously misguided as to the amount any given
                citizen of the said country _wants_ the government in
                his life. The idea above is idiotic (and double so if a
                troll) by anyone's standards. Americans aren't as special
                as they apparently think.
                \_ Well _some_ clueless moron obviously _wants_ the government
                   to decided who is allowed to have kids and not.  And _that_
                                           \_ I grew up underneath a table in
                                              the WEB.  When I reached the age
                                              of 18, I emerged and joined OCF
                                              Staff.
                        spawn more overlords _/
                   is what I was going off about.
        \_ [Summary: Some people want the US to be a super fascist government
            controlled state, others don't, aspo proposal may or may not make
            ballot, make or may not become law, if passed other states will
            write anti-ss-marriage laws, supreme court will side with states
            and CA law would only apply within CA, come the revolution aspo
            and bf will be first against the wall, bh needs help but as no
            one denied this bh threads died out quickly]
            \_ HA!  I'm gonna be a member of the firing squad.  -aspo
                \_ No one puts obnoxious jerks like you on the trigger side
                   of the rifle.
                   \_ Except, of course, the police department.
                        \_ The police have higher standards than aspo.  He'd
                           never make it.  They require very _basic_ mental
                           and emotional stability for starters.
                           \_ Really?    ^^^^^^^^^^^ guess that explains a lot
                                \_ No, really, "stability" like I said.  Go
                                   ahead and wipe the motd if you like but
                                   don't change the meaning of other's words.
                                   "stability" restored.  All you whiny "I hate
                                   cops" anarchist idiots need a good clubbing
                                   in a back alley to remind you why you can
                                   walk down the street without a gun in your
                                   pocket.
                                   \_ I'm just happy to see you.
                                      \_ Wow. That was almost clever. Keep
                                         trying -- maybe you'll get it right
                                         someday, kid.
                                         \_ I'm just happy to see you.
                                                \_ Even less so the 2nd time.
1999/12/22-27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17088 Activity:nil
12/22   for those of you with office accounts, log in and hose neuromancer.csua
        I'm stress testing this box.  - paolo [date corrected for CA time]
1999/12/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17080 Activity:nil
12/21   What's a good ISP for Southern California?
        \_ ED!  ED!  ED is the STANDARD!  Southern California Internet
           Service Provider.
        \_ Earthlink
1999/11/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:16847 Activity:moderate
11.8    Vote NO on the new sports referendum - why?
        -it raises money to maintain non-revenue men's sports, and doesn't
         raise money for women's sports.
        -the bulk of the money raised will be spent on expanding the RSF.
        -it will raise your student fees by over $130 next year, and cause
         subsequent fee increases of over $200 over the next three or four
         years.
         \- YOU CANNOT STOP MY DESIRE FOR CHIKS IN TIGHTS SO GIVE IT UP
        -the bulk of the money raised will be spent on expanding the RSF.
        -it will raise your student fees by over $130 next year, and cause
         subsequent fee increases of over $200 over the next three or four
         years.
        \_ and money has already been allocated for the RSF, and Title IX
           is supposed to take care of balancing men's and women's sports.
        \_ I'm not on campus so I don't know the details but if this is a
           "should we charge ourselves a few bucks for sports stuff", you
           should vote no on the general principle that fees like this never
           go away, never go down, and never end up spent on the stuff they're
           supposed to be spent on.  Go check out your latest CARS statement.
           (Or whatever they call the billing system now).  See the "Campus
           Fee"?  How much?  It started in the 70's as a $10 fee.  Think about
           it.  Yes, I also vote against all bond measures and other forms
           of tax-n-spend take-from-the-middle-class-to-give-to-the-government
           programs.  Never vote to tax yourself.  Someone else is always happy
           to do that for you.
1999/8/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:16433 Activity:insanely high
8/30    Under how many weeks of pragnency is abortion legal in California?
        \_ I have heard that they have now legalized abortion up to the
           40th trimester. - sameer
           \_ Umm, it normally only goes up to 3 trimesters.
              \_ After the third trimester, it's called "retroactive."
           \_ That's one HELL of a pregnancy
                \_ Sort of like the 4th book in a trilogy.
                        \_ not really
                                \_ yes really (you added 0 content, so can I)
                        \_ So long.  Thanks for all the fish.
        \_ Dude you people are SO FUCKING ILLITERATE. -sameer
           \_ South park is a book now?
1999/8/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:16398 Activity:very high
8/25    RIBE DIKE!
        \_ BRIBE DYKE!
           \_ use linux!!
           \_ use nulix!!
              \_ Vote Quimby.
1999/8/2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign] UID:16223 Activity:high
8/2     http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9908/02/ucita.idg
        Now, it is legal for Microsoft's Windows 2000 to use the internet
        to check the validity of the license, and disable Win2000 remotely.
        This is BAD for pirates like us.
        \_ Can you say "input firewall rule"?
           ipchains -A input -j REJECT -s <DEAD>.microsoft.com<DEAD>
        \_ it is? all you have to do is blackhole *.microsoft.com via
           routing. But the UCITA is bad for other reasons.
        \_ Its already dangerous to put a windoze machine on the net.
        \_ pirates can surely still crack the licensing mechanism.
           \_ such as ... ?
        \_ This sounds like a great ODS attack.  Can anyone say bo2k plug-in?
1999/6/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:15970 Activity:nil 66%like:16055
6/16    Ding, dong, DIVX is dead.  http://www.divx.com
        \_ good riddance.
1999/3/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:15597 Activity:high
3/16    Why don't you have to pay tax when you buy things from out of state?
        And why does Seattle Filmworks charge tax?
        \_ You're suppose to pay taxes, just lots of places don't charge
           them.
                \_ Out of state businesses can't collect CA sales tax,
                   but you're legally required to pay a "use tax" to CA
                   on out of state purchases.
        \_ The US Constitution has a section prohibiting states from
           interfering with commerce.  This section is interpreted to
           mean that states can't assess taxes on transactions in
           other states.  This is why if you mail-order something from
           Rhode Island and you live in California you pay no state
           sales tax.  However, if you mail-order something from
           California you pay sales tax.  Seattle Filmworks might
           have a California branch or office so you might still have
           to pay California sales tax but you won't pay Washington
           sales tax.  I think that is how it works, but I'm not a tax
           lawyer.  Any tax lawyers on soda who can comment?  -emin
           \_ I'm not a lawyer but I don't get taxed in Washington state
              when I show the store clerk my Oregon driver's license (doesn't
              work for restaurants though).  But California doesn't seem
              to care about charging sales tax to out-of-staters. --jeff
        \_ The more important question here is why you'd want to buy
           anything from Seattle Film Works in the first place . . .
        \_ The pics-on-the-web feature is nice.  And I've had no problems
           with quality.  -tom
        \_ The resolution on that is terrible, and I've had a lot of trouble
           with scratches on the negatives with them.  Just not worth the
           premium for that.  -jor
                \_ the resolution is fine if all you're doing is putting
                   them on the web.  -tom
           \_ But you can pretend that you're using 3L33T3 YUPP13 SUP3R F1LM!1!
1999/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:15466 Activity:moderate
2/22    Has anyone heard of a law change that requires all CPA candidates to
        hold Masters degree if they don't pass the CPA exam by year 1999?
        Thanks in advance.
        \_ CA law requires all CPA's to be tested for Year 2000 compliance
           by the end of 1999, or to have enough brains to ask very important
           questions that could greatly affect your future of much more
           informed and reliable sources than the CSUA motd.  Perhaps
           http://www.aicpa.org can help you.
           \_ Got it.  Thanks.
1999/2/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:15464 Activity:very high
2/22    Name the top 10 most beautiful people on soda
        \_ http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~sandyl/Junko/html/j10.html
           Sandy is so hot!!!!
        - Josephine  <CS Graduant '97, Last name not to be mentioned>
          \_ well let's see, there's only one josephine on soda, jkoh.
             Unless her web page picture is unusually unflattering,
             you've got to be kidding.
        \_ kkat
        \_ N1CK W3AVER!?!
        \_ Hint: they are not necessarily women.
        \_ those people don't read this file.
             \_ r u a female?
        - Sherry     <As above>
          \_ Presumably sherryg, who looks OK via http://csua/~sherryg/sh1.jpg
             but certainly not impressive.
        \_ These are both very generic and mildly attractive asian chicks
           which is more than good enough for the top 5 MBPoS list.
        \_ my vote:
           - <DEAD>~jean/me.html<DEAD>  But that has a lot to do with a good
        \_ ahm voting for leigh (cynthia@soda) ditto on the jkoh vote.
           1. <DEAD>~jean/me.html<DEAD>  But that has a lot to do with a good
                oh, and dpassage looks just as good in drag.
              ~jean/personal.html.  Gee, so arrogant!
           \_ what dpassage are you talking about?
           \_ Any pics?  Her home page doesn't work.
              \_ nude or clothed?
                 \_ Preferrably nude, but either is fine.
        \_ my votes:
           1. <DEAD>~jean/me.html<DEAD>  But that has a lot to do with a great
              photographer.  Also check out the "Status:" line in
              ~jean/personal.html.  Gee, how arrogant!
           2. <DEAD>~anjie/portfolio/anjie/noir.html<DEAD>
              \_ http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~anjie/portfolio/images/meth03.jpg
                 is more yummy.  --sky
           3. <DEAD>~fonger<DEAD>
            \_ They are all Asian women!
               \_ Well, you never hear of a Caucasian fetish, do you?
           \_ Dude, hazy photoshop touched up pictures can make most
              girls look fine.  --sky
        \_ Now lets vote for the ugliest people on soda!
           \_ 1. jsl
                \_ 2. whoever voted for jsl
1999/2/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:15405 Activity:high
        50-50 for obstruction of justice.
        \_ Now its time for endless debate on censure motions.
                \_ Not.  Thankfully this CYA bullshit is dead.
        \_ I thought it was supposed to be > 50. Oh well.
                \_ No, after the house impeaches him in a majority, the
                   Senate must convict on a 2/3 majority in order to remove
                   the president.
                   \_ Seriously, did anyone think that it could possibly
                      be anything better than 56-44 to get him out of
                      office? what a waste of time.  Good job GOP, you
                      just about guaranteed that you won't be in the
                      White House for a few more terms.
                      \_ Not.  You haven't been in this country long enough
                         to understand that no one but a few crackpots is
                         going to vote against a Rep. candidate because of
                         the impeachment.  Don't be silly.  The so called
                         analysts and newspapers never manage to understand
                         or guess correctly what the American people are
                         thinking or going to do each election.
                      \_ You base this on what?  POLLS!?  Hahahhaha, they
                         don't poll the 'voters'.  They poll the 'people'.
                         Keep in mind that statistically the people they're
                         polling are more left than the average voter.  Voters
                         are more conservative than "The People".
                      \_ Not the way polls are going against Al Gore right
                         now for 2000.
                         \_ When Clinton originally ran people didn't think
                            he had a chance even against his own party
                            adversaries (Paul Tsongas) and look what happened.
                            I think we should pull another Jessie the Body
                            Ventura/Ronald Reagan and vote Bill Bradley into
                            office.
                                \_ Al is a stiff board nobody.  Put him on
                                   stage in a debate against anyone with half
                                   a personality and then see if the voters
                                   choose a person or a 2 dimensional image.
1999/2/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:15393 Activity:nil 52%like:15387
2/9     Can someone suggest a nice place to proposition on Valentine's Day?
        \_ hetero couples propose, gay guys in public bathrooms
           in parks proposition
                                            \_ Do you mean "propose" or
                                               "proposition"?
        I'm thinking about either the parking lot outside Lawrence Hall of
        Science after dark, or Treasure Island facing SF.  Thanks.
        \_ suggestion: die
        \_ there are some good places in nevada, the Bikini islands, and
           Amchitka.
        \_ As far away from Berkeley as possible.  You should have planned
           a lot longer than five days before so that you could plan plane
           trips to Seattle or Hawaii or something like that.  Unless you're
           poor of course which, in which case, you're stuck here.
        \_ I suggest _not_ doing so on V-day unless you -know- she's going to
           say yes.  Don't want to ruin your V-day forever....
        \_ Something indoors is better because cold noses and blown around
           hair isn't romantic.  A fire is good too.  -a girl
           \_ Set your girlfriend's hair on fire.
           \_ How about outdoor but in a car?  No cold noses and blown around
              hair.  Would a girl think it's romantic?
                \_ No.  My girl advisor says, "No.  Cars don't work.  It's
                   trashy."  She goes on to say, "Just take her to your
                   place or borrow a friend's with a fireplace and make her
                   dinner.  He's too late to get reservations at a good
                   restaurant.  He needs to show that he's put effort into
                   it".  I think the idea is to forget the view and do
                   something nice.  She went on and on about it but that's all
                   it comes down to.  Don't be a cheap spaz.
        \_ if you're stuck here, I would suggest The Rose Garden. - tpc
           \_ Not after dark.  I've seen drug deals there at night.  Not
              very romantic.
           \_ Rose Garde in Golden Gate Park?  But there're no roses these
              days.
        \_ Don't!  It's not good to get married.  You lose all your freedom,
           free spending habits, and all the good looking babes on soda, etc.
           \_ Who on soda is a good looking babe?  Any homepage?  Thx.
                \_ This is exactly the reason there aren't any.  Go take a
                   humanities class of some sort and stop looking so desperate
                   and for your own sake as well as God's, TAKE A SHOWER!  No,
                   one shower last Thursday doesn't count.  Moving it up to at
                   least twice a week is a good start.
                   \_ What do humanitites classes and bathing have to do
                      with good looking babes on soda? I bathe every day
                      and took a few English classes, but I've never seen
                      a babe on soda. There weren't any babes in the English
                      classes either, most were commies with too many
                      body piercings.
                        \_ mmm, commies with body piercings...
                           come to butt-head  -humanities h0zer
                      \_ Agreed.  I've been in a lot of humanities classes
                         here and the good looks are hard to find.  I find
                         that the cutest girls are the bio/wanna-be-premed
                         types.
                         \_ And those at Haas too, I think.
                   \_ But I was just trying to conserve water.
                      \_ When the US military wants to stockpile on chemical
                         weapons they simply go to the 2nd floor of Soda.
1998/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:15155 Activity:very high
12/30   Are there any states that allow cousins to legally get married?
        This is a serious question.  Thanks for any info.
        \_ Kentucky.
           \_ So if two cousins get married in Kentucky and then return to
              California, will the marriage be recognized by California as
              legitimate?
              \_ Full Faith and Credit.
1998/12/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:15071 Activity:kinda low
12/4    Troll deleted again.

Amy Biehl was a Stanfurd graduate who left for S. Africa on a Fulbright
scholarship to help with voter registration in the nation's first all-race
1994 election marking the end of apartheid.  In the wrong place at the wrong
time, she was in the black township of Guguletu when an angry mob returning
from a political rally stoned her car, dragged her out, beat her, and killed
her.  At least one of her black compatriots attempted to defend her, telling
them that she was a friend.  Four people were convicted and sentenced to
18 years.  In July of this year, these four men were released from prison,
granted amnesty by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (as required by the
amnesty provision, they had fully confessed to the attack, including
the individual who committed the fatal stab wound).  Peter and Linda Biehl
of Newport Beach, CA, released a public statement supporting the commission's
decision, and have since regularly travelled to S. Africa to confirm to
passersby that they have truly forgiven their daughter's killers, and towards
fostering understanding between those who would be blood enemies.  Whether
each part of this story is right or wrong I don't say -- that you know that
each part happened and think about it is what's important.  When this
disappears, ~jctwu/pub/biehl.
        \_ Well now I understand how the daughter could be so stupid, given
        what the parents are like.  I knew about the daughter, but had no
        idea this was a multi-generational defect.
        \_ was the daughter cute?  is the mom?  do you have film of the
           mother and daughter doing the nasty?  otherwise, why should
           we care?
        \_ so was the bitch cute or not?
        \_ The daughter is almost as stupid as the parents.  Yet another
           total victory for the forces of Charles Darwin.
1998/11/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/Electric] UID:14961 Activity:high
11/14   It's winter time and my gas furnace and gas water heater is eating a
        lot of gas. My gas bill jumped by a lot, as expect. However, I thought
        my electric bill would go down since the only thing that eats
        a lota electricity is my frig, but NO, my electric bill jumped a
        shit load, with some new charges like "Transmission, distribution,
        nuclear decommissioning, competition transition charge, trust transfer
        \_ You didn't vote on election day, did you?
        amount." What the fuck are these new charges and why the fuck is my
        electric bill so high now??!??!?!?? Do you guys see it as well???
        \_  Hey PEOPLE did you vote YES on 9?  Well, if you didn't
        that's too bad, you should have, just like you should have
        seen it coming with all those ads saying 9 was bad for CA.
        Who exactly pays for those ads?  Answer: whoever has the most
        to lose.  Who's that?  Answer: the UTIL cos.
          \_ No, no, no.  Prop. 9 was GOOFY!  It would make everyone run
             backwards.  Everything would be happening in reverse if Prop. 9
             had passed.  Don't be silly!
                \_ What was prop 9?  -- can't vote but has to live with it
        \_we live one astronomical unit from a pretty good fusion reactor.
          PG&E can't change that.  quit bitching and get off the grid.
1998/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14924 Activity:high
11/6    Newt Gingrich is resining from Congress.  See http://www.cnn.com for
        details.
        \_ i say let him stay. the more harm he can do to the gop the better.
        \_ he's resining from congress?  you left out a g.
           \_ better than recosining -- that's just sick!
                \_ Not to run for sPECKER of the House.
        \_ Darn!  Can't depend on republicans for making foolish mistakes
           anymore.
        \_ now let us see if clinton has got the balls to follow suit.
        \_ it's about time!
1998/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14906 Activity:nil 75%like:14888
11/3    Don't forget to vote today.  --tabloy
        \_ For a dissenting view, hear Friedman (166 Barrows, 7p). -- schoe
          \_ people are too stupid for this sort of thing to work
                \_ Maybe this thing is just too stupid to work
                \_ looking at the results, this state is going to
                   suck!!!  Time to move..
                   \_ what did you expect? 2 people who didn't deserv
                      to be governers and 2 more people who don't deserv
                      to be senators.  Fong, Lungren, Davis, Boxer all stink
                \_ Someone actually asked Friedman whether people had to b
                   smart for anarchocapitalism to work.  He suggested tha
                   the "natural conservatism" of people meant that peopl
                        \_ I'm going to take out five seconds to laugh m
                           ass off at this "human nature" argument
                   would likely become accustomed to it and its institution
                   once it was established, whether or not they wer
                   particularly intelligent.  (He also said he did vote,
                   straight LP slate, but that there was no real reason t
                   vote unless one happens to find it fun.)  -- schoe
1998/11/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14905 Activity:nil 66%like:14902
11/4    The magic of democracy..
        http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/10/01/mn.governor
        \_ Yeah, so?  What's your point?  That Minnesotan's are tired of
           the same old shit from the one party system?
1998/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14902 Activity:nil 66%like:14905
11/4    The magic of democracy...
        http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/10/01/mn.governor
1998/11/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14888 Activity:high 75%like:14906
11/3    Don't forget to vote today.  --tabloyd
        \_ For a dissenting view, hear Friedman (166 Barrows, 7p). -- schoen
          \_ people are too stupid for this sort of thing to work.
                \_ Maybe this thing is just too stupid to work.
                \_ looking at the results, this state is going to
                   suck!!!  Time to move...
                   \_ what did you expect? 2 people who didn't deserve
                      to be governers and 2 more people who don't deserve
                      to be senators.  Fong, Lungren, Davis, Boxer all stink.
                \_ Someone actually asked Friedman whether people had to be
                   smart for anarchocapitalism to work.  He suggested that
                   the "natural conservatism" of people meant that people
                        \_ I'm going to take out five seconds to laugh my
                           ass off at this "human nature" argument.
                   would likely become accustomed to it and its institutions
                   once it was established, whether or not they were
                   particularly intelligent.  (He also said he did vote, a
                   straight LP slate, but that there was no real reason to
                   vote unless one happens to find it fun.)  -- schoen
1998/10/29-31 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14852 Activity:moderate
10/28   http://www.salonmagazine.com/news/1998/10/27newsb.html has an
        interesting take on Proposition 9.  Anyone know of other good
        voting information sites?
        \_ on localhost in /dev/null...personaly I am trying to find out
           how to get my ballot in chines alowing make to make
           how to get my ballot in chines allowing me to make
           a provably random selection.

Idiocy deleted.
        \_ You forgot to delete the rest of the motd, including this thread.
                \_ I didn't say "all idiocy deleted"
I was forwarded this from a co-worker. I did this and I'm telling you, it's
really weird.  Follow the directions slowly, and do not go forward until told
to do so.  I think you will find this really eerie(and very true...).

This is quite amazing but its fun and seems to work!!

Enjoy!!

SPOOKY - Do this its quite wierd...

First things first:

NO CHEATING

Really.  I mean it.

Don't cheat.

This is a little game that has a pretty funny/creepy outcome.  Don't read
ahead, just do it in order.  It takes about 3 minutes It's worth it.  It's
kinda eerie....

First, Get a blank piece of paper and pen.

P.S. When you are asked to choose names, make sure it's people you ACTUALLY
KNOW, and go with your first instincts!

Scroll down one line at a time - don't read ahead or you'll ruin the fun!!

1.) First, write the numbers 1 through 11 in a column.

2.) Then, beside numbers 1 and 2, write any two numbers you want.

3.) Beside the 3 and 7, write down the names of members of the opposite sex
(or same sex if you're gay).  Don't look ahead-or it won't turn out right!

4.) Write anyone's name (like friends or family...) in the 4th, 5th and 6th
spots.  Don't cheat or you'll be upset that you did.

5.) Write down four song titles in 8, 9, 10 and 11.

6.) Finally, make a wish.....

And here is the key for that game..

1.)  You must tell (the number in space 2) people about this game in (the
number in space 1) days in order to make your wish come true.

2.)  The person in space 3 is the one that you love.

3.) The person in 7 is one you like but can't work out.

4.) You care most about the person you put in 4.

5.) The person you name in number 5 is the one who knows you very well.

6.) The person you name in 6 is your lucky star (I have no idea what this
means but it sounds good!)

7.) The song in 8 is the song that matches with the person in 3

8.) The title in 9 is the song for the person in 7.

9.) The tenth space is the song that tells you most about your mind.

10.) And 11 is the song telling how you feel about life!

                       GOOD LUCK!
Idiocy deleted again.
1998/10/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14783 Activity:kinda low
10/15   Anyone have any friends that are Nevada residents?  It could be
        worth several hundred dollars if they would do me a small favor
        that would take 5 mins. of their time.  Thanks.  --sky
        \_So is it cool to use the motd to solicit accomplices in
          low-risk fraud?
           \_ Only if you don't get caught
        \_ I was born in nevada - is that close enough? -alan-
           \_ Needs to be a current resident
        \_ LOL. :)  Tax is stupid. Particularly mail-order instate/intrastate
                -it's a big scam, and we're punished for living in hi-tech
                california where it's all sold/net stores...
                even if that's not the point of sky's post, I can think of
                much worse things on the motd. Go Sky!
1998/9/29-10/2 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14693 Activity:nil
9/28    Last day for registering to vote in CA if you want to vote in the
        Nov 3 election is October 5.  If you aren't already registered
        (and can legally vote in CA), you may want to do so.  -- tabloyd
1998/9/1-3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:14533 Activity:high
9/1     Check out famous CSUA alumnus Bret "mogul" Mogilefsky on
        page 19 of this month's California Monthly.
        \_ Cool! Where do I get my copy!?  -mogul
        \_ What does this dude do again?
                \_ Play with sock monkeys and hit old machines with
                   the csua bat.  -John
                \_ He's the little known right hand man to George Lucas,
                   the "mogul" of LucasArts (hence the nickname).
                    \_ I wish! I'm the lead programmer on the game Grim
                       Fandango.  -mogul
                       \_ When's it coming out? Looks fucking badass from
                          the previews I've seen
                    \_ sorry, but 'mogul' predates his lucasarts employment
                   \_ I only attended one meeting, and after seeing a white
                      guy swinging a bat around menacingly, that was my last.
                        \_ Racist prick.  If it was some nigger with a bat,
                           that'd be ok?
                           \_ Sheesh, I was kidding.  But now I hope I offended
                              you and only you.
                                \_ I too am deeply offended that you chose not
                                   to participate in the CSUA due to the
                                   organization's President being Caucasian.
                                   There is no place for such racism in this
                                   organization.  Please go fuck yourself with
                                   a splintery broom.   -Offended Whitey
        \_ "Cerebrally ambidextrous."  Man, it's so easy to impress the
            yokels. -mogul
1998/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14168 Activity:nil
6/3     Proposition 225: Proof that the majority of California voters shouldn't
        be allowed to vote.
        \_ IGNORED VOTER'S INSTRUCTIONS ON MOTD POSTING
1998/6/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14161 Activity:high
6/2     Vote early. Vote often. Vote no.
        \_ just be sure to take the time to vote against 226 please,
           thanks - danh
        \_ Vote _YES_!!!1!  Otherwise the jackbooted communist thugs will
           march in from over the state border and steal money from union
           workers, build highway bridges that cost three times as much,
           and force our schools to only teach children in Swedish.  At
           least that's what the TV commercials tell me.
          \_ As a conservative I have deleted the response previously in
             this space as it was either written by a leftist in an attempt
             to make the right look bad, or it was written by the bottom of
             the genetic barrel.  Either way, it wasn't worth the bits it was
             written with and the world, both left,right,and center, is better
             off without that sort of mindless stupidity.  -JAC
             \_ fucking nazi censor
             \_ kinda hard to fit all that on a bumper sticker
                   \_ If you _get_ a bumper sticker like that, you're
                      probably some kind of reactionary country-club pro-life
                      wealthy-from-exploiting-the-downtrodden-poor gun-nut
                      environment-destroying kneejerk arch conservative who'd
                      be much more likely to be driving some big-ass huge gas
                      guzzling SUV or ostentatious luxury car (as opposed to,
                      say, a Geo Metro or Ford Aspire).  Therefore, they'd
                      have enough bumper space, plus some extra to spare, for
                      a larger-than-normal bumper sticker.
                                       -- warm hearted, compassionate liberal
                                       (and in this case, I'm jealous, because
                                        there isn't enough space for _both_
                                        the "Save the Whales" and "You Can't
                                        Hug Children With Nuclear Arms"
                                        stickers on the top of my bike rack.)
                        \_ Typically, those who actually get rich from
                           exploiting the downtrodden poor are generally
                           too careful with their position to risk it with
                           such nonsense.  It's the pathetic incompetents
                           who WANT to be exploiters but don't know how
                           who waste time on such things. -mel
                           \_ You guys don't know what you're missing.
                              We have a socialist and a nationalist party.
                              Our politics are more fun.  We're invading
                              California next week, but in an eco-friendly
                              way.  -John
1998/5/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14098 Activity:kinda low
5/14    I need a recommendation for a good ISP which has dialups
        throughout California (north and south) and in Florida.
        Any ideas?                      -randal
        \_ Yes
        \_ Havent you figured out there are not good ISPs with dialup.
1998/5/1 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14031 Activity:nil
4/30    VOTE FOR HANK THE ANGRY DRUNKEN DWARF
        \_ URL?
        \_ e-mail from two days ago:
>>Pathfinder is running a '50 most beautiful people contest' which,
>>inevitably enough, is currently being won by rodent-faced teen idol
>>Leonardo Di Caprio. The voting form is at:
>>
>>        http://www.pathfinder.com/people/50most/1998/vote/index.html
>>
>>Happily, there is a contender who is gaining ground rapidly. I urge you all
>>to rush over to the Web site and cast your vote for:
>>
>>        Hank the Angry, Drunken Dwarf
\_  Here are the latest results:
    1.!psb, 278910 votes
    2.Hank the Angry, Drunken Dwarf, 191644 votes
    3.DPK, 47619 votes
      \_ ???
    4.Leonardo DiCaprio, 9092 votes
        \_ I want your rat face and clean shaved ass, Leo!!!  -aspo
    \_ I wonder if people even realize that the result on the website
       will have no effect on whomever they choose for the magazine
       cover.  The WebSite is separate from the magazine - android
       \_ so what? at least we can help strike some healthy fear of the net
          into the minds of the idjit editors at People (and other
          publications targeting readers with IQs 70 and below)
          \_ if you are so smart, why are you an overworked corporate
             stooge?
             \_ Stooges of the World Unite! -stooge #3
       \_ObGetAClue -#9 psb fan
1998/4/15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:13956 Activity:very high
4/14    There was a CSUA election where a female candidate claimed
        that guys were voting with their dicks.  Does anyone remember
        the details?
        \_ That was almost certainly rachel..  don't remember much else
           \_ nope
           \_ It was Rachel in private.  VP doesn't need that many extra
              dicks/votes to win.
         \_ that was probably Alissa Pritchard vs. Amee election. And if
            anyone was doing anything with their dick, it was Amee.
            \_ i like alissa.  Tall... Blond... Cute... Smart.  :-)  Where
               has she been lately??? -horny CSUA guy
                \_ as far away from you as possible
1998/4/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:13941 Activity:nil 71%like:13957
4/12  Federal:
      http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/prod/forms_pubs/forms.html
      California:
      http://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/97_forms/index.asp
      \_ Feed ME! -da guberment
1998/3/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Dating] UID:49812 Activity:nil
3/4     Can someone post the age of consent again? Thanks. I remember
        Hawaii is 14, California is 18, what else?
        Age of Consent Laws in the United States
        ----------------------------------------
          Age 14:  Hawaii, Pennsylvania
              15:  Colorado, South Carolina
              16:  Alabama, Connecticut, Deleware, District of Columbia,
                   Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine,
                   Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana,
                   Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North
                   Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Dakata, Utah, Vermont,
                   Washington, West Virginia, Wyoming
              17:  Louisiana, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Texas
              18:  Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, Calif., Florida, Idaho,
                   Illinois, Mississippi, North Dakata, Oklahoma, Oregon,
                   Tennessee, Virginia, Wisconsin
                I suggest checking out Hawaii :)
1998/3/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:13752 Activity:very high
3/3     Jim Barksdale admits that he is a Bill Gates "admirer". http://www.cnnfn.com
        \_ Who is this and why do we care?
                \_ ceo@netscape.com
                \_ Ok, now why do we care?
                \_ If you admir your enemy, then you are STUPID. And you NSCP
                   people, don't even try to erase this message again!
                        \_ Your spelling and attitude demonstrate your
                           ignorance clearly.  Mr. Barksdale on the other
                           hand obviously sees Mr. Bill has built Microsoft
                           into an incredible juggernaut, and can admire him
                           for that while trying to compete against it.
        \_ This is like saying "I think Hitler is c00l, but I hate him."
                \_ No, this is like Jason Kidd saying "I think Michael Jordan
                   is a great basketball player even though I have to try
                   and beat him when our teams play each other."
1998/3/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:13747 Activity:very high
3/02    A new constitutional amendment is being introduced to eliminate
        the seperation of church and state.  In effect, the majority of
        a locality will be able to mandate religious practices.  Jewish
        children in southern towns will be graded on their essay on the
        topic "Why Jesus Loves Me"
                \_ call for references please -- it's not April 1 yet.
        \_ I love watching the right try to generate election year issues
           that they think will help them.  Minimum wage, nuking the tax
           code, and now this... --scotsman
           \_ Isn't the minimum wage a traditional democratic issue?
           \_ when you pay taxes, you'll be glad to see a flat tax too
              \_ I do pay taxes.  But if there's going to be tax code
                 reform, i'd like to see it done with responsible
                 legislation, and not as some election year ploy. --scotsman
                 \_ I don't care what the reason is, I'll take a flat tax
                    any year.  Sooner the better.  Why do you care what the
                    reasoning is as long as the end result is positive?
                 \_ Hellloooo!!  *EVERYTHING* these days is an election year
                    or poll making ploy.  You've lived here how long?
        \_ It probably will fail to get the 2/3rds vote it needs, and then
           the Republicans will use it in the offyear election as a campaign
           issue, emphasizing the "anti-God" vote of the Democrats. -mel
           \_ Uhm, yeah.  Don't go into politics mel.  Stick with computers.
        \_ And they are also considering a constitutional amendment to sell
           The Brookyln Bridge to the highest bidder.
        \_ Did I tell you about the Swamp Land Amendment from Sen. Jason
           Crock of Florida?
        \_ What about the Hank Hill Propane Gas Consumers & Small
           Business Act", sponsored by Rep. Spennncer Bachus of Alabama?
           (I kid you not).
                \_ Oh ya?  Cool.  Who does it give my tax money to?
1998/2/19 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:13701 Activity:high
02/18   What's the minimum age of a female that I can legally "sleep" with in
        the States and in California?
        \_what's the matter...can't get anyone your age to sleep with you?
          now you're thinking about sleeping with your kid sister?
        \_ Guess what you will be giving her as present on her 18th birthday?
                \_ Your parole!  Hahaha!
        \_ 0.  You can sleep with anyone, but if you are talking about
           having sexual intercourse...
           \_ Yes, that's what I mean.
        \_ I doubt there's a federal law, there are state laws and in
        California, the age is 18.
        \_ in "incredibly hip" california, the age is higher than other
        states, some of which say its okay at 16?!
          \_ Check an almanac.  Some states are even lower.  BTW, California
             isn't incredibly hip, it's just run by people who don't give a
             shit.  Very big difference.
        \_ For all you cradle robbers,
           here's a handy guide from the 1/97 Playboy for vacation planning:
                \_ Thanks. -psb
        Age of Consent Laws in the United States
        ----------------------------------------
          Age 14:  Hawaii, Pennsylvania
              15:  Colorado, South Carolina
              16:  Alabama, Connecticut, Deleware, District of Columbia,
                   Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine,
                   Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana,
                   Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North
                   Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Dakata, Utah, Vermont,
                   Washington, West Virginia, Wyoming
              17:  Louisiana, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Texas
              18:  Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, Calif., Florida, Idaho,
                   Illinois, Mississippi, North Dakata, Oklahoma, Oregon,
                   Tennessee, Virginia, Wisconsin
                I suggest checking out Hawaii :)
1998/2/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Dating] UID:13627 Activity:high
2/4     In California, what's the closest blood relationship between a
        male and a female that is still legal for marriage?  Or where can I
        find out about this info?  Thanks.
        \_ Fallen for your sister, eh?
        \_ Fallen for your mother, eh?
        \_ Plan on becoming Amish?
           \_ What about Amish?
        \_ Ask psb or tom; didn't they both fall in love with themselves ?
        \_ Don't worry about it, masturbation is still legal in all 50.
1997/1/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:32029 Activity:nil
1/4     The recent devastating Flood is the God's way to punish us for
        passing Proposition 215.
        \_ Um, actually, the rain was my fault.  My weather maker
           experienced a power surge while in the monsoon testing
           mode.  Sorry about that, won't happen again. - scotsman
        \_ Stupid motd entries are God's way to punish us for not having
           stricter entrance requirements for UC Berkeley.  -JOhn
        \_ Oh boy somebody has a direct line to God. Ask him/her if we are
           in for anymore disaters.
           \_ Oops, I don't think it was wise of me to taunt him. I am now
              a proud owner of a bong with a broken carb that's going
              to cost me big time to replace. So beware of any taunting
           \_ Yes.  -The High Almighty
        \_ Excuse me sir, it's a collect call from God, he says there
           should be more intelligence at Berkeley
        \_ Didn't this say prop 209 yesterday?
           \_ No, it's always said that.  Smokers in the State are trying
              to fool you!
           \_ For the record, it was 209. Who gives a shit about 212?
           \_ I originally put 209 (CCRI) there but some dumbass changed
              it.  You should not change someone's words just because you
              can't handle them.
              \_ You should not expect an entry in a world writable file
          to remain 2.
1996/11/5 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:31992 Activity:nil
11/5    VOTE!!!  Don't write off this election until all the votes are in.
        -- erikred
        \_ Besides, the results can't be any worse than the last politburo
         election.
1995/2/1 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:31735 Activity:nil
1/31    P U L P    F I C T I O N
        Thursday, February 2, there's a Pulp Fiction event planned for the
        evening. If you want to come, we can organize rides, etc. We're
        planning on 7:00 pm at Pacific's California near the SW corner of
         go!) Please mail aaron if you're interested in going. --aaron
        \_Did anyone else find this movie brutally violent, racist,
          and homophobic?  What is its appeal?  I saw it and could
          not believe thamount of racist epithets and sickening
          bloodiness.  Explain its "brilliance," someone.  -wft
          \_  Have you stopped to think that the film is not racist,
           but the characters portrayed in the film?  The realism
         of racist characters portrayed in a film may be
         shocking to some PC dimwits, but you must realize that
         some art mimics life.  -mlee
          \_ If you think Pulp Fiction is "homophobic", you are a
         brainwashed idiot.  If I were homosexually
         gang-raped, I'd want to get Medieval on the
         assailants' asses as well, but that does not
         make me homophobic.  Maybe if you thought about
         the things you watched, rather than producing
         knee-jerk reactions in accordance with the way
         you've been programmed, then people might treat
         you like you had a brain.   -blojo
         \_ I don't think "thinking about the things he
         watched" is all that he needs to think about.  -mlee
           \_ Chill out.  If you like movies where blacks are
              constantly called "niggers" and gory brutality
              is treated as a laughing matter, then more power to
              you.  I was more curious to know what makes this film
              worthy of artistic acclaim by its advocates.  -wft
           \_ The problem here is that you are totally missing any
         and all significance that the film contains.  Your
         measly attempts to classify this film with the many
         other more violent, less intelligent films out there
         just adds merit to my beliefs that you have no mental
         capacity whatsoever.  When you realize that "blacks"
         call each other niggers in real life, then we can
         begin to have an intelligent conversation.  Please
         also note that Samuel L. Jackson, a very succesful
         actor, who could be in one of many roles, accepted to
         play the role of Jules, who is called a nigger and
         calls other blacks and even whites niggers, with
         pride and a lot of enthusiasm.  He also stated that
         Quentin Tarantino has not one racist bone in him.
          -mlee
           \_ tell us your login and I'll mail you an essay... the motd
              is hardly a place for this discussion.  -seano
1993/11/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:31423 Activity:nil
11/10  Thanks to a LOT of politicing from Senator Dave, and some last minute
        sucking up by President Seidl, the CSUA is now richer to the tune
        of $500.  The bill passed!!! - seidl
        \_passed by a vote of 23-0-0 --dpassage
1993/6/4 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:31345 Activity:nil
6/5     Someone compiled, and advertised, a list of internet dialup
        possibilities elsewhere in the Bay Area and CA a while back.
        Anyone know where it's stored? - gojomo
        \_ Try alt.motd
1993/4/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:31262 Activity:nil
4/8     I suggest people calling their respective Republican Senators
        and complain about the filibuster tactics they used to kill
        Clinton's stimulus package.  Essentially, what they are saying
        is: "We know you are out of a job, but we are saving you
        millions!"
        \_ I suggest you try looking at the package before you whine.
           It's actually full of swimming pools, unemployment benefits,
           and projects for Puerto Rico.  Stuff that will not help the
           majority of the US people get jobs.  Besides that, it's way
           inefficient.  $900,000/job is the cost.  It is very, very
           fortunate that the Republicans had enough votes to prevent
           a vote.  Now, a compromise will be forced, which might just
           provide a bill that will not destroy the economy and drop us
           back into a recession.  [By the way, California doesn't have
           any Republican Senators to call]
1993/4/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:31247 Activity:high
3/31    I have decided to start reporting all incidents of copyright
        violation on soda to the FBI and the University.  Yes, this
        does include pirating of software and gifs.  Expect federal
        response and possible university expulsion if such activities
        continue.
         \-"bite me" --psb
        \_ Since when are gifs illegal?
          \_ gifs are not illegal.  distributing gifs of copyrighted works
             is illegal (assuming they haven't given permission), but then
             again i'm not a lawyer so i have no real knowledge of this -oj
        \_ I LIKE GIFS OF NEKKID GURLZ!!!
        \_ i would like to ask again, please, if you are going to post
         something in the motd which is beligerent and threatening,
         sign it.  i think i know who this is, but i would
         rather not be guessing.  -hh
         \_ The posting may be belligerent, in that it is "combative"
            and "assertive" - that should be expected.  In this brave
            new world, it is necesary that the law abiders combat
            the law breakers.  The posting is only threatening in the
            same way that laws are - if you break them, you will be
            punished.  The poster is simply helping that punishment
            along.  No less should be expected.  Break the law, go
            to jail.  Period.  It's sad that someone has to do it
            on their own, when staff@soda should be the one's
            responsible for making sure laws aren't broken on their
            machine.
           /_ Just because something is illegal, that doesn't mean
              that it's necessarily right to help enforce or even
              to obey the law.  Obeying the law blindly or
              attempting to be a secret policeman is not always
              the right thing to do.  As an example of a bad law,
              consider the school teacher (featured on "A Current
              Afair" last night) who was raped by her 14 year old
              student and then convicted of having sex with a
              minor.  Think carefully about the function of any law
              before you decide destroy the basic legal principal
              of the accused having the right to confront the
              accuser.
          \_ I was a bit worried about this initially too.
             Fortunately, you don't know what you're talking
             about.  Last time I spoke with the FBI, they
             assured me there would be no issue.  I am
             simply providing information.  The FBI will
             be doing the accusing.
              Bringing this back to copyright, I and many
              others believe that the creation and exchange of
              information would be helped rather than hurt by
              dramatically reduced intellectual property restrictions.
              (I'm not advocating breaking the law in this case.
              I just want to suggest one possible way your decision
              to rigorously enforce copyright laws could be, on
              the balance, counter-productive to society.)  --Adam R.
          \_ Spoken like a true Peefer.  It has long been the
             case that the unimaginative and the uninventive
             have tried to steal from those that can.
             Fortunately, the law protects us artistes, us
             programmers, us writers and us cartoonists from
             you banal masses.
           \_Excuse me, but I'm a writer, and an artist,
             and a cartoonist, and a musician, *and* a
             programmer, and I _still_ think you're
             a bozo.  The only thing you've just
             proven is the abnormal size of your
             ego. By the way, you forgot engineers,
             architechtects, theorists and hardware
             hackers in your list of "creative"
             people. --Lee
             \- WHat exactly does ego have to do
         with law enforcement?  You break the
         law, you pay the price.  Simple.
             \- You're about as much of a programmer as
         George, that is, not much.
                                \_as far as i'm concerned you can stick your
                                  ego up your banal mass.  --howlee
          \_ Personally, I would be proud to be considered a
             "banal mass" considering that most of the great
             thinkers have always based their works on previous
             ideas.  Galileo, for example, stole the design for
             the telescope--and then was the first to think to
             point it up.  And Shakespeare wrote exactly one
             original plot in all his years of playwriting.
             A free exchange of ideas is far more benificial
             to society than keeping thoughts under tight
             reign.  Look at the technical progress of the U.S.
             compared to the U.S.S.R.  (The space program is
             of course, an exception, but then, that was the
             area where the U.S. was almost as tightlipped as
             the U.S.S.R.) -boss
         \_ how will *you* decide if I'm breaking the law
            without looking at the content of my files ?
            did you discuss search warrants the last time
            you spoke with the FBI ?  --cynthia
                  \_ some people left things world readable.  it's mentioned
                     in the minutes of the last meeting.                 -oj
        \_ Just to let you know, despite all of the bleeding heart
           liberals complaining about being punished for breaking the
           law, I am STILL filing reports with the FBI (and will be
           sending a large packet of information to the Student Conduct
           Office this weekend).  The FBI today stated to me that they
           nearly had enough information to file some search warrants
           (and thanked me for my work :).
         \-who you callin liberal? bite me --xxx
                \_ Bite me, too, while you're at it. -xxxxxx
         \_ Bite my f*ckin' ass, moron -- calling me a liberal is
            like calling you intelligent -- xxxxxxxx
        \_ Sure you did.  Did you talk to J. Edgar himself?  Anonymous
           motd posts are hardly credible, dude.
        \_ Go to *HELL* you self-important son of a bitch.
        \_ "I never knew I was a thought criminal until my little girl
           turned me in."  Thanks for taking it upon yourself to turn
           our little corner of the world into your version of Airstrip
           One.  I feel sorry for you, informer. -- xxx
        \_ Hey you SOB, watch your files very closely.  Make sure *YOU*
           don't have anything illegal in there.
        \_ Maybe you should just report me anyway, you weed.  xxxxx
           xxxxxxxxxx, 12xx xxxxxxxxx Dr. #xx, xxxxxxxxx, CA 94xxx.
           Who are you?
        \_ Well, personally I think we should thank this patriotic asshole
           for keeping our country, and in particular, Soda, safe from the
           sort of lowlifes who advocate the free spread of information (the
            \- It isn't free spread of information
        you fucking dumbshit.  It's theft,
        pure and simple.  Would you like
        it if someone didn't pay you while
        you were working register at
        McDonalds?  Same fucking thing.
        Just advocating the free spread of
        McNuggets.
           damn pinkos).  I'd also like to salute his/her courage in standing
           up for what he/she believes in, and in cowering in anonymity
           while doing so.
        \_ I'm sure you'd love to see my true login so that you can harass
           me, try to drive me from this machine and maybe try to kill me.
           Such are the stigma that we true patriots face.  Rest assured,
           I will keep watching and you will be punished.  Period.  I do
           not understand why you are incredulous when I talk of how I talked
           to the FBI.  They do have local office, you know.  If you wish
           to speak with them, ring: 553-7400 (that's 415 code).
        \_ Of course the FBI has a local office.  But why should we think
           you're anything but a prankster?  I think you're just making
           noise for chuckles.
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