Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:November:30 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2000/11/30-12/1 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:19953 Activity:high
11/29   Man, for a local text-based email program, pine is unacceptably
        slow (yes i am on t1).
        \_ use mutt. (
        \_ what's unacceptably slow is anyone who is still using pine
        \_ use mh, its fast.
           \_ mh: Command not found
              \_ stick with pine.  it's more your speed.
                 \_ I almost agree with this, but I suggest that you
                    run man nmh and have a look. Also fire up a browser
                    and search google for nmh (its just like searching
                    for W@R3Z and pr0n).
        \_ And exactly why do you need speed in a non-gui email utility?
           I've had more speed issues with jove or emacs than pine.
        \_ Hear, hear!  Worse is better!  Pine forever!
           Ease of use may not be 1337 but shoot, give me pine and NeXT
           any damn day of the week.
           \_ My ass; I used pine on NeXT.  Maybe if your mailbox is < 1000
              messages it's _bearable_, but hardly pleasant.  Use mutt.
              Play again.  --dbushong
                \_ If speed is what you want, just use 'mail'.
                   What, are you a lamer or something?
                   And anyway, if you have >200 mail messages, you are
                   a total l053Z and need to unsubscribe from some lists.
                   \_ or you should use procmail or slocal to sort your
                      mail in conjunction with (n)mh. mail is okay, but
                      mh is only slightly slower but much more flexible.
                      - mh troll.
        \_ Perl::SMTP.
2000/11/30 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:19954 Activity:high
11/29   On NT, how do you find the IP address on the machine you are on.
        (without using a system call to "hostname" or "nslookup").
        I'm talking not at the command prompt but inside of C/C++ code.
        \_ command prompt> ipconfig
        \_ start->shutdown, boot with OpenBSD floppy, install,
           then look at ifconfig source code.
           \_ thanks.  ipconfig source may work.
                                \_ open MS source?
                                        \_ MS source is available if you have
                                           enough $$.
                                   \_ M$trace
                                   \_ He's the 311T3 .RU H@X0R what
                                      0WNZ M$.
2000/11/30-12/1 [Computer/Domains] UID:19955 Activity:kinda low
11/29   'nslookup <hostname>' and 'ypmatch <hostname> hosts' return the
        same thing. Are they using different mechanisms? How are they
        \_ one uses dns, the other yp.  odds are your yp server falls through
           to dns for hosts.     If not, they are synchrnoized either through
           scripts or sysadmin-vigilance.
        \_ yes. nswitch.conf.
        \_ This means that your NIS/YP server has DNS lookups enabled.
           When it does not find a host in its NIS hosts maps it goes and
           queries DNS server before giving up.
2000/11/30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19956 Activity:moderate
11/30   How do you call C library functions from a Java program?  Do I
        need to clean out the bong reservoir?
        \_ You will need to build a JNI wrapper function for the libc
           call you want to make. JNI can be problematic, in that some
           advertised features don't work properly or consistently.
           Send me mail for more info. ----ranga
           \_ Thanks ranga.
2000/11/30-12/1 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:19957 Activity:high
11/30   Currently looking at laptops.  Is a 12" screen okay or too hard
        to maneuver?  What are the top options that I should get?
        Dell?  Gateway?  WinBook?  Sony?  Compaq?
        \_ - 11hr battery life
           \_ Can someone provide a more convincing URL?
           \_ Can someone provide a more convincing URL?  TMTA has sounded
              so good since their introductory news conference, but for the
              last two weeks I've been suspecting that they suck today.
        \_ depends on what you want to do with it.  are you going to replace
           your desktop with it, or are you going to use it as a supplement?
           also, don't forget IBM.
           \_ bad Chucky, no IBM for BSD!
              \_ I don't understand IBMs obsession with LinSUX. Perhaps
              \_ I don't understand IBMs obsession with redhat. Perhaps
              \_ I don't understand IBMs obsession with RedHat Linux. Perhaps
                 after years with AIX anything looks good.
        \_ Get a PowerBook G3 400, 192 MB Ram, 10 GB HD & Airport. It is
           pretty cheap and you get 14" Active-Matrix TFT display, 2 USB
           ports, 2 FireWire ports, VGA video out, S-Video out, 10/100
           Ethernet, Wireless Ethernet (no antenna sticking out like on a
           PC laptop), 56K modem, 8 MB video ram (Rage128 Mobility), a
           fast DVD/CDROM drive, and 5-7 hrs battery life. It is the best
           laptop on the market and with OSX you can run a real OS
           \_ I work at Apple. I've used the damn beta. Trust me. OSX is
              not something you want to put on your machine until they're
              finally done with it. But at least it's a good start to
              replace their kludgy OS9. One of the things I've learned
              from working here is that Apple users (like Linux, WinXX,
              FreeBSD users) can get extremely passionate and religious
              about their particular OS or platform and, as a result,
              tend to blabber about how great their OS is. It's
              important to think realistically. Every OS sucks in its
              own respect and every OS is cool in its own respect (well,
              maybe not Windows). But it's all about your own personal
                        \_ Zealot! :P
              preference and needs and other people's may be different
              than yours. Religious wars won't get you anywhere.
              \_ Uh, I'm using OSX on a daily basis. Yeah the beta has
                 some limitations, but it has emacs, ssh, nfs, bash,
       , perl, cc, c++, javac and most of what you
                 would find on a BSD install. I can get almost all my work
           real OS like LinSUX.
                 done on OSX without any problems.
           real OS like redhat.
           (FreeBSD 3.2 + mods + upgrades) not a rickety clone of a
           real OS like RedHat Linux.
           \_ yeah but can' I run my windows games on it?  If not its just
              another overpriced paperweight.
                 \_ Well, yeah. I run some games like Monkey Island and
                    Myth on my PB G3 using Win98 on Virutal PC. Its okay.
                    I've tried Tiberian Sun and its also playable. Which
                    games did you specifically have in mind? Baulders Gate,
                    Diablo 2, UT, Q3A, Pod Racer, Boob Raider etc have Mac
                    The Mac can also play most playstation games, even
                    Japanese ones under VGS. The PC version isn't nearly
                    as good (and don't tell me about BLEEM, it can't hold
                    a candle to VGS on a Mac). The games I normally play
                    are Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo (has sound and music
                    on the Mac unlike PC), Gran Turismo I and II, Driver
                    and Need For Speed High Stakes. They all run great,
                    much faster than on a real PSX or even a PIII 700.
                            \_ I have to say, VGS kicks ass as a playstation
                               emulator (esp. the cracked version).  It simply
                               buries bleem.  With Virtual PC, there's almost
                               no reason to buy a PC unless you want to
                               play brainless games like Quake.  The mac
                               may not have as many games as the PC, but
                               it has the quality few that you'll want to
                               play and still be useful enough to do
                               for practical purposes under an OS that
                               doesn't have to be re-installed every
                               several months....
                               \_ Uh, Quake I, II and III Arena are
                                  available natively for MacOS, as are
                                  Unreal and Unreal Tournement. There is
                                  full support for OpenGL RAGE (the ATI
                                  stuff) and RAVE (the 3DFX stuff). The
                                  entire line of voodoo cards work just
                                  fine under MacOS. MacOS also has good
                                  support for all those nifty PSX style
                                  USB that the PC gamers envy.
                                  My brother plays UT on his G3 466 +
                                  Voodoo 3 with exceptional frame rates;
                                  enough to kick the FAtlon 1 GIG and PIII
                                  players arses every time.
                                  The only mainstream PC game without a
                                  mac version is Half-Life (and I'm pissed
                                  about that, since the "beta" rocked).
                                  Supposedly HL2 is coming to Mac...
              \_ Windows Games? You want a laptop for Windows Games?
                 Sorry, I thought that you were going to use it to do
                 some REAL WORK using a REAL OS.
                 \_ I wanna play games AND do real work.
                    \_ Choose one or the other. Real work cannot be
                       performed on a WinTenDo.
                        \_ That sucks!
                 \_ please let me know if you find a laptop with a kickass
                    3D video card.
                    \_ PowerBook G3. Rage128 Mobility. Best video card in
                       any laptop. The PB kicks ass. PC vendors are still
                       trying to get into the technology that Apple had in
                       the PB100 and PB500 lines.
2000/11/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Finance/Investment] UID:19958 Activity:nil
11/30   How the fuck can the stock market go any lower? All my holdings
        have P/E ratios of 10. Fuck.
        \_ That's because our economy is dictated by idiot investors,
           brokers, what not... why graduated from a business majors
           and base things on arbitrary rules. The economy doesn't work
           logically. It works based on whay idiots tell us to think.
        \_ What are they.  I wanna buy some.
                \_ At last prices consistent with reasonable ideas of valuation.
                        \_ shut up, nweaver.
        \_ Thank Mr. Gore.
                \_ it's absurd to blame the market problems on the election.
                   The market is down because dozens of major players have
                   missed expectations and warned of difficult conditions
                   ahead.  -tom
                   \_ Hey Tom.  What are you gonna say when the market will
                      bounce once this bullshit is over?
                      \_ tom will say that the market will bounce once Bush
                         is sent packing back to texas. No bias there.
                        \_ I actually don't think the market's gyrations are
                           affected much one way or the other by who the
                           president is or isn't.  It will bounce back when
                           companies start reporting good earnings again. -tom
                           \_ Several companies have good earnings, yet they
                              are down, way down. Why? Major Investors are
                              spooked by ALGOR's reluctance to adhere to the
                              rule of law.
                   \_ Uh, Cisco, Sun are down because they missed expectations?
                      No. They are down because investors are worried that ALGOR
                      will somehow succeeed in stealing the election and become
                      Pres. Gore is bad for the country and major investors know
                      it, that's why they are pulling out. If Bush becomes Pres.
                      (the office which is rightfully his under the constitution)
                      the market will go back up as major investors will begin to
                      \_ Is that why all those tech CEO's pledged $$ to Al Gore?
                          \_ major investors (institutional) != tech CEO's.
                             major investors == mutual funds, brokerages, banks
                             And not all tech CEO's were nimrod ALGOR supporters,
                             Chambers, McNeely, Dell, made the right choice and
                             backed Bush.
           \_ You ain't seen nothin' yet. - Al
              \_ I'm sorry. You must be a Gore imposter. Everyone knows he
                 would instead say "You... have... not... seen... anything...
                 ... ... yet."
                 \_ Al is not only the inventor of the internet, but also
                    an 3113T H@XOR. He's probably posting from his R00T SH311!
2000/11/30 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19959 Activity:high
11/30   Why would anyone think that a recount is more accurate than a
        machine count? Can't they use an OCR program, with 99.9% character
        recognition (and much more for simple items like the ballots) to
        go through the ballots?
        \_ it's hard to count ballots with your head up your ass.  -tom
        \_ Hand Recount is the only fair and honest way to clear up this
           mess and make me president, and office that only I am capable
           of holding.
           Hand Recounting, when performed by highly skilled members of
           team gore, uh, I mean the voting board, using their fair and
           impartial criteria (award all votes to gore) will produce the
           desired, uh, I mean correct result, which is that I ALGOR won
           the election and thus the presidency. - Al
2000/11/30-12/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19960 Activity:high
11/30   In java, if int a=10 and:
        a) a = a + a++;
        b) a = a++ + a;
        The result of a and b SHOULD be the same, but are not. What's up?
           \_ Think about it, its not always going to be the same. Mostly
              likely it will be similar to the following:
              a) 1. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 1
                 2. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 2
                 3. increment value stored at addr of a
                 4. add reg1 and reg2 and store at addr of a
                 -> a is 20 (10 + 10)
              b) 1. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 1
                 2. increment value stored at addr of a
                 3. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 2
                 4. add reg1 and re2 and store at addr of a
                 -> a is 21 (10 + 11)
        \_ The ++ is executed immediately after its original value is used?
           a) a = 10 + 10 (a now = 11, but very temporarily)
           b) a = 10 + 11
           \_ This is correct: Java (unlike C or C++) specifies that the
              increment happens immediately after its value is used.
        \_ Whoever writes code like this that relies on the implementation
           of execution order should be shot.
              \_ Um, there is only one possible execution order for the code
                 given above according to the rules of precedence.
                 \_ Oh yeah?  Just for "a = a + a++" alone I can get two
                    different results:
                    \_ Those results (and more) are both valid in C++, but
                       in Java only the second can happen.
                    1) Fetch value of "a" on the left of '+', 10.
                       Fetch value of "a++" on the right of '+', 10.
                       Do increment for "a++".  "a" becomes 11.
                       Write result of addition to "a".  "a" becomes 20.
                    2) Fetch value of "a" on the right of '+', 10.
                       Do increment for "a++".  "a" becomes 11.
                       Fetch value of "a" on the left of '+', 11.
                       Write results of addition to "a".  "a" becomes 21.
                       \_ I did not say that a and b are equivalent. I
                          said that there is only one possible order of
                          execution based on the rules of precedence.
                    \_ I guess this falls under the part of the ANSI C spec.
                       that says that the order of execution of subexpressions
                       in an expression is implementation defined. I suppose
                       the following would be possible as well:
                       incr a, fetch a, fetch a, store a -> a = 22
           \_ Oh, you can write code that is independent of execution order?
              You rule.
              \_ No, but I can write code that only relies on execution order
                 that is implementation-indepedent.  E.g. I can write C code
                 like "if (foo() || bar()) {......}" and rely on the fact
                 that foo() is executed before bar().  But I won't write code
                 like "baz(bar(), foo());" and assume that foo() is always
                 executed before bar().
        \_ Wanna really have fun? Run this in C, using native compiler,
           gcc, and others and you'll get a DIFFERENT result. TRY IT!!!
           \_ Okay, I don't see how a and b can ever be the same. You
              are asking for two different actions to be performed.
        \_ Ok, I just tried it on a sun box with gcc.  the answer is 11 in
           both cases.  How can this be?
2000/11/30-12/1 [Reference/Celebration] UID:19961 Activity:nil
11/30   Happy birthday, Dawn Bushong!
        \_ pix p.
2000/11/30 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:19962 Activity:high
11/30   I'm currently looking at a laptop, but nothing's happening.
        What am I doing wrong? TIA!!!
        \_ what are you talking about
2000/11/30-12/1 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19963 Activity:moderate
11/30   Does anyone else find themselves typing 'quota' just to get a
        quick feeling of self-importance owing to the suddenly quadrupled
        disk space?  I do.
        \_ No.  Seek help.
        \_ quadrupled, you have a 100MB? DAMN. Who did you bribe?
           \_ You old fart.  Newbies had tiny quota before the user-wide
              quota increase to 30 MB.
              \_ Wait a minute. I got 5 MB, while newbies got about 25 MB?
                 This is wrong. Old timers need to have thier space scaled
                 up by the same ratio.
                 \_ How does the math work out that it's been quadrupled?
                 \_ Treating everyone the same has the advantages of
                    of being self-evidently fair, and also being
                    very simple. --PeterM
                    \_ It was a joke.
                        \_ 30 MB is rather a silly quota considering how
                           much disk space we have.  -tom
                           \_ Yeah whatever. I have ~ 30 GB at home. I'm
                              not going to whine over several dozen meg.
                              I don't keep important stuff on soda anyway.
                              \_ read: porn.
                                 \_ uh no. mp3, though. I have a ton of them.
                                 \_ uh no. mpg, though. I have a ton of them.
        \_ if you got your account in the last 2 semesters you received
           an 8 MB quota, instead of the standard.  This has all been fixed
           and everyone now has the same amount of quota (for those people who
           have a quota) - paolo
2018/12/11 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:November:30 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>