Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:March:06 Monday <Tuesday>
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2000/3/6-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17693 Activity:high
3/5     61 series are using Java. What about other courses e.g. 162 (Java OS?)
        164 (COOL Java compiler?), etc etc? Are they now in Java, or still
        C/C++? For new students, wouldn't they have to learn both?
                                                        -curious 1990 alum
        \_ 61a- Scheme, 61b- Java and one week of C++, 61c- C, C++
           162 - C++, 164 - depends on prof; hilfy does a Java compiler in C++
           while Aiken does a Cool compiler in Java. 169 - choose your own but
           most people do their projects in Java. 170 - demmel didn't like
           java and told people not to use it. solutions in Standard ML were
           provided. our project was written in C. 172 - no programming req'd
           but I sometimes hacked together programs to do my HW in scheme
           and perl. 174 - none 182 - java and (maybe?) CL 184 - c/c++/Tcl(?)
           186- c++ 188- CL and there is a perl decal class this semester.
           i haven't taken all these so some of it is hearsay; i started in
           1997 -brg
        \_ If Berkeley is really serious about hard core computer
           science, it would be teaching pseudo academia language that has
           absolutely no revelance in the real world (just look at Stanfurd
           and MIT). On the other hand, if Berkeley is really serious about
           kewl language, it would be teaching Java and nothing else
           (just look at community college). IMHO, Berkeley is in between
           the useless theoretical academia (Stanfurd) and the ludicrous
           industry (community college).
           \_ Because Berkeley and MIT are so academically oriented makes
              it a very good school for people who want to go out into
              the real world.  That's why so many good companies that make
              leading edge products seek students from universities like
              Berkeley.  All this theory that you consider so bullshit is
              probably more applicable to the real world than anything you
              get out of a piece of shit trade school like ITT.  I bet you
              haven't realized it by now but some of the "bad-ass" chips
              sitting in your computer and cell phones wouldn't be there
              were it not for masters and PhD students.  They don't hire
              weenie ass B.S. students like yourself to do something
              that important.
              \_ Just to name a few:
                 Kahan (current Berkeley prof) - responsible for IEEE 754
                 standard and all FP arithmetic on Intels before Pentium
                 D Patterson (also Cal prof) - RISC, RAID, NOW, IRAM
                 D Ditzel (Cal masters, auth famous RISC paper w/ Patterson)
                 responsible for 20 successful chip designs. Now CEO of
                 Transmeta
                 Douglas W Clark (prof at Princeton) - lead VAX engineer
              that important. Next time you go to a job interview tell
              your job interviewer that you think that all professors
              from Berkeley are full of shit because they're "theoretical"
              and don't use Java and see how far you'll get.
        \_ No C++ in 61c, mainly MIPS assembly and a little C
                \_ when I was TA'ing last summer, we allowed C++ whenever we
                   didn't care about their being able to compile-by-hand; C
                   otherwise. -brg
        \_ Sigh... More of the "let's use the kewlest new fad language" from
           Cal profs trying to be compu-hip.
           \_ clueP?  Do you know what you're talking about?
                \_ Do you?  More code continues to be written in C than JAVA
                   and this will remain true for years to come.
                   \_ Good, that's a sensible reason to teach C over Java.
                      However, this sense is not evident in the initial
                      comment which presumes idiot profs.
                        \_ No.  Not idiot.  Compu-hip kewl profs tagging along
                           on the latest bandwagon so they won't look like the
                           dinosaurs they are.
                           \_ There you go again -- your point is made
                   \_ And how much code is written in scheme? Why does 61a
                      use scheme, then? I think it's because it's a good
                      language to teach concepts of computer science, not
                      because it's a good language for engineers to use in
                      a business environment. What do you think?
                        \_ Yes, true.  Fine for a first class.  What the hell
                           is the point of Java other than "We be hip!  We be
                           kewl!  We be da with-it Cal Profs!"?
           \_ The move to java has let instructors focus less on learning
              language specifics and more on theory.  There are projects
              in 61b that would have never been attempted were it still taught
              using c++.  That being said, it is true that students tend to
              not to pick up c/c++ on their own well enough for upper division
              coursework.
                \_ In other words, the lower div java crap isn't preparing kids
                   for what they really need to know to get through the upper
                   div work?  Kewl >> Value in Berkeley CS.  Java should be a
                   9 series course for those interested in fads and nothing
                   more.
                   \_ I seriously doubt that the lower division work in any
                      form ever really prepared students for the amount of
                      work and "experience" required for upper division work.
                      The current situation merely stops making pretenses at
                      trying to say that these courses are "all a CS student
                      will need" to make it through upper division work, stop
                      wasting time teaching students something they should
                      pick up on their own, and use the time to teach them
                      something they won't pick up on their own.  No 61x class
                      can teach a student the language/programming skills
                      they need to finish CS1xx work here.
                      \_ I agree strongly.  In addition to providing a strong
                         theoretical background, I think the most important
                         thing Berkeley "teaches" is the ability to pick up
                         new languages and skills.  The way this skill is
                         "taught" is by NOT teaching languages, and expecting
                         that students learn languages and some other
                         specifics without being spoonfed them in a class.
                         I will grant, however, that there are probably more
                         "in it for the money" lamers today than there were
                         five or ten years ago.  The lamers don't grasp the
                         value of learning this stuff on their own, and want
                         to be spoonfed.  I think the number of clued folks
                         has probably stayed pretty much constant over the
                         years, even though the number of lamers has probably
                         grown due to the recent tech boom.  I think that the
                         important thing is not to lose sight of the clued
                         folks even though they're surrounded by a sea of
                         lamers.  I think you'll find that they're every bit
                         as good as the folks of yesteryear. -dans
                         \_ There was a time when they knew the difference
                            between their, they're, and there.  Looking good on
                            the resume, dans.
                            \_ Corrected oh motd grammar god.  I'll take this
                               as a lesson to be more vigilant about my usage
                               of homonyms at 3 in the morning.  And for the
                               record: their - used for plural possession
                                       they're - contraction, they are
                                       there - useful little bugger, can
                                               serve (among other things) as
                                               a pronoun and an adverb
                               -dans
                               P.S. If that's what they teach in English 1A,
                               it's no wonder so many Berkeley students are
                               incapable of composing a coherent sentence.
                                \_ I was going to say Subject A but I don't
                                   know if it exists anymore.
                                   \_ It still exists and there are still lots
                                      of people who have trouble passing
                                      and/or satisfying it.  I AP'ed out.
                                      -dans
2000/3/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:17694 Activity:nil
3/5     I'm trying to configure majordomo but I keep getting this error:

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
wrapper: Trying to exec /usr/lib/majordomo/-c failed: No such file or
directory
    Did you define PERL correctly in the Makefile?
    HOME is HOME=/usr/lib/majordomo,
    PATH is PATH=/bin:/usr/bin,
    SHELL is SHELL=/bin/sh,
    MAJORDOMO_CF is MAJORDOMO_CF=/etc/majordomo.cf
451 "|/usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"... Operating system error

        I've looked in /etc/majordomo.cf and found nothing that would
        cause a non-existent program like -c to execute. Any ideas?
        \_ well, duh, Did you define PERL correctly?
2000/3/6-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17695 Activity:nil
3/4     How do I use semaphore+cond variable in Java?
        \_ no such thing in Java, only "synchronized"
        \_ Perl!
        \_ I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but if you can use
           mutual exclusion to do what you want, use the synchronized
           key word. If you need full semaphores, Doug Lea has written
           a concurrcy library: http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl
2000/3/6-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:17696 Activity:nil
3/4     What does a Segmentation fault mean? I have a program with and gdb
        reveals that the program segfaults at
                while (x == 0) {
        It seems to segfault on one machine each time but never on another.
        \_ what's "x"?
        \_ did you malloc enuf space?
                \_ IOW, did you allocate memory for x?  Is x defined, or
                   just declared as a variable?  What type is x?
        \_ Illegal reference to memory not owned by the process
2000/3/6-7 [Recreation/Food, Computer/HW/IO] UID:17697 Activity:high
3/6     Can somebody give me some pointers on building a compost pile? I'm
        thinking of composting my garabage.  Also can grass be "composted"?
        I want to find some use for this little pile of grass generated
        every week when mowing the lawn.  Thanks.
        \_ You basically need some kind of box that won't rot. We
           had one made out of wood, with one side made out of
           removable panels that made it easy to get at the contents
           (our compost box was large; roughly cubical, about 7'
           on a side.) You need to turn the compost over every once
           in a while so that it decays evenly. You can compost
           grass, but be careful of weeds (compost is highly
           fertile.) Any gardening manual worth its salt will have
           more information for you.  -brg
        \_ Ew.  Glad you're not my neighbor.
        \_ Reminds me of the "Mouse Friendly" compost pile at Casa Zimbabwe.
           \_ I trapped mice in my room when I lived there. I felt sorry
              for the little bastards. After a time, they figured out that
              my room wasn't a good place to go. I guess they moved on
              to someone else's room, since 99% of the folks didn't trap
              them. --dim
                \_ No.  One of your neighbors either trapped them and broke
                   their little necks or poisoned them which causes them to
                   dehydrate and then go find water somewhere else and die
                   there or used a glue trap and left their furry faces stuck
                   in a plate of glue unable to move or breathe, every twitch
                   putting them further and further in until someone would
                   have to pretty much rip the little thing out to free it
                   which would almost certainly not only kill it but be far
                   more painful than leaving it to die in the glue in the
                   first place.  The best is when you used the standard
                   snap trap and get a fast mouse and it nails the head as
                   it tried to evade the snap bar instead of it's neck.
                   Sometimes it'll crush the skull nearly flat.  Other times,
                   the mouse is fast enough that it only crushes its face
                   against the wooden base plate and it survives like that
                   until you come by hours later and 'rescue' it by crushing
                   it under your boot or drowning it in the sink or a bucket.
                   God damn, I loved living in the USCA co-ops!
              \_ Yeah, in Cloyne I got 18 mice (in standard rat traps) in just a
                 week.  My neighbors said their mouse problems disappeared too.
                 Go figure. -emarkp
                 \_ My CZ neighbors swore my mice problem wasn't their fault
                    and they had no food in their room.  After killing about
                    7 or 8 with more still running around, I saw the huge stash
                    of food they were hoarding.  Killed another 3, told them to
                    dump the food or I'd rat them out as food thieves and
                    wouldn't you know it?  No more mice problems.  Amazing.
2000/3/6-7 [Industry] UID:17698 Activity:kinda low
3/6     If you had to choose, Scient vs. Sapient what would your selection
        criteria be?  Has anyone here made that choice already?  If so, what
        was your decision?
        \_ I'd choose Scient because they have the shorter name.  That way, if
           I had to write some kind of paper that justified my decision, it'd
           be less work in the long run.
        \_ I'd kill myself first but not before driving a large truck full of
           something interesting into a federal building.
                \_ shut up nweaver
                        \_ Not nweaver.
        \_ Scient: pure e-business. Sapient: ERP implementation and a lot of
                other crap. -impartial CSUA member
        \_ DataMain.  --dbushong
2000/3/6-8 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:17699 Activity:nil 60%like:18222
3/5     mutt upgraded to 1.1.8; bugs to brg.
        \_ http://www.mutt.org says 1.0.1 is the latest version. er? --aaron
           \_ cvs snapshots (alpha) are made every night, and
              that's what I run at home; 1.1.8 is a "development
              release" (beta). 1.0.1 is the latest official
              release (final), but i like to have the bugfixes and
              stuff that are in the more recent releases. -brg
2000/3/6 [Uncategorized] UID:17700 Activity:nil
3/3     105467   jenly    68681   ansjory  53079   choo
        153476   ccytsao  68093   tchuang  55567   kane
        167913   rico     65433   cchow    56671   brucelo
        83249   blyon     68165   shieh    43558   ivy
        72571   joy       63409                       erickyo
        72787   muchandr  57753   ying     48865   innami
        70711   chiu      59658   andrea   49230   comiso
        67657   ramses    53574   egwall   41543   tonyng
        68052   sfang     59467   acchang  47311   yule
        62210   john      54672   katster  44731   nhut
2000/3/6-7 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:17701 Activity:high
3/6     Help, I get a lot of junk mail in my USPS mailbox. Is there a way to
        setup procmail, or have my mailman procmail my mail? Thanks.
        \_ Yes. It's called "hire a personal assistant"
           \_ if you hire one, make sure you get one with huge... tracks of
              land.
                \_ tracts, you moron
                        \_ Maybe he wanted tracks of land?  On the Cal Track
                           n Field team maybe and needs running room?
        \_ Whoa!  I've been totally waiting for that!
                \_ what is it?
                        \_ If you don't know it's because you don't know. RTFM.
        \_ there's a service you can send a postcard to and they'll act on
           your behalf and get your name off of junkmail lists, all free of
           charge.  i did it and i get practically no junk mail except for
           local supermarkets and what comes through from my voter reg.
           i forget the name, but i can look it up at home.  -lila
           \_ Look at http://www.trans-union.com (credit reproting agency).  They
              have addresses depending on if you want to stop direct marketing
              or credit card agencies from sending you random junk mail.
2000/3/6-8 [Uncategorized] UID:17702 Activity:moderate
3/6     w3m 0.1.7 installed in /usr/local/bin/w3m; bugs to brg
        \_ Whoa!  I've been totally waiting for that!
                \_ what is it?
        \_ Yes. It's called "hire a personal assistant"
           \_ if you hire one, make sure you get one with huge... tracks of
              land.
                \_ tracts, you moron
                        \_ Maybe he wanted tracks of land?  On the Cal Track
                           n Field team maybe and needs running room?
                           \_ oh forgetit. Just find one who has big tits,
                              and likes to show em.
                                \_ Can get that on most street corners in any
                                   large city.  What's so great about that?
                                   \_ It's kind of like "rent vs own".
        \_ what is this?
2000/3/6-7 [Computer, Computer/Theory] UID:17703 Activity:very high
3/6     Computer science theory shmatheory. I'm not a phd candidate like
        nweaver or dpetrou but I'm making #)(*$)# more $$$ than they are.
        \_ You know what they say about fools and their money... -brg
        \_ nweaver probably still has far more $$$ than you (gotta love
           rich parents) and dpetrou is definitely far more intelligent
           and happier with his life than you are.  All you have is money,
           and that is fleeting.
                \_ Nice to know nwaever can afford to mooch off his parents
                   and join the intelligencia and look down upon us poor slobs
                   who have to *work* for our money.  You have no basis of
                   comparison between dpetrou and the anonymous person above,
                   so nothing further need be said on that.  -not the above
                \- well. love is still better in the end than $$.
                        ( future IPO millionaire)
                \_ money can't buy happiness, but it can buy... legos! yesh!
                        -current IPO millionaire
                \_ Money can't buy love but it can buy the alleviation of most
                   forms of personal suffering.  After your basics are met and
                   are guaranteed to remain so for life, any misery remaining
                   is your own fault.  Go see a therapist.
                        \_ Money can't buy yer mom, because she is free.
2000/3/6-7 [Uncategorized] UID:17704 Activity:nil
3/3     1467   jenly    681   ansjory  579   choo
        1476   ccytsao  693   tchuang  567   kane
        1913   rico     633   cchow    571   brucelo
        849   blyon     665   shieh    458   ivy
        771   joy       609
        787   muchandr  553   ying     465   innami
        711   chiu      558   andrea   430   comiso
        657   ramses    574   egwall   443   tonyng
        652   sfang     567   acchang  411   yule
        610   john      572   katster  431   nhut
        Figures are in bytes. CLEAN UP YER MAILBOX!!!
2000/3/6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:17705 Activity:nil
3/6     VOTE TUESDAY YOU APATHEIC MORONS
        \_ what, is there an election tomorrow
2017/11/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/18   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:March:06 Monday <Tuesday>