Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:November:16 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Reference/Law/Court] UID:19785 Activity:very high
11/15   I am typically not so blunt, but does anybody else think that the
        Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris is a total bitch?  She is
        not even trying to pretend to be non-partisan.  Which cabinet post or
        ambassadorship has she been promised?
        \_ so she should break the law to please Gore? all she is doing is
        following the law put there to protect the will of the people and
        preserve fairness.
             \_ Yes. We need to ELECT GORE BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
                The law is irrelevant, only ELECTING GORE matters!
          \_ Read the law you dipshit.  Title 9, Chapter 102.166.  It's very
             clear about hand recounts being totally legal.  They have followed
             that law to the letter
                     Here you go _/
                     \_ reformatted in the interest of space. I
                        believe that its (2) that you want to read.
                        Gore is trying to break the LAW, and Ms. Harris
                        is trying to do her job (uphold the LAW). Last
                        I checked we were a nation of LAWS and no one
                        including GORE was ABOVE THE LAW.
                        \_ Uh, yes.  Gore protested with the canvassing board
                           within 5 days of the election.  So yes, Gore did
                           what he had to do.  This says nothing about that
                           bitch having any right to try to stop the counts
                           like she did this morning.  And I can't wait until
                           the Florida Supreme Court gets its hands on this
                           case firmly.  They are all Democratically-appointed
                           judges.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19786 Activity:high
11/15   Please read the text without ragging on the source.  Dr. Laura had
        the easiest to read (in terms of fonts, etc) copy of this quote:
        http://drlaura.com/letters/index.html?mode=view&tile=1&id=115
        Any opinions on this quote?  Was Tyler full of shit?  Where do you
        think we stand on Tyler's timeline if he had it right?
        \_ Tyler is full of B.S. True democracy in a country where the people
           are 100% educated won't vote for more money.  That happens in
           the U.S., in Philipines, in Mexico, etc, where the average voter
           has no clue of what's happening.  We haven't even progressed to
           true democracy yet, much less going on to bondage again.
           \_ unless by "100% educated" you mean 100% brainwashed into your
              or my particular ideology (and even the latter would be a high
              price to pay for what wouldn't really be a democracy), you,
              like most people, have an entirely irrational faith in
              education. -crebbs
           \_ You missed the point. "true democracies" dont last, you always
              degenerate into the haves and the havenots, which then
              accelerates like how the US is going now.
              \_ Its a moot point, since the US is not and has never been
                 a true democracy. The US is a representative republic.
                 A true democracy is not much different than mob rule. A
                 simple majority often makes hasty and ill considered
                 choises. The founding fathers knew this and created a
                 system of government resistant to drastic changes that
                 can plague a democracy.
        \- that quote does better on style than substance. the fall of athens
        has a lot to do with the peloponessian war. See Thucydides and
        Kagan IV: The Fall of the Athenian Empire. You know being invaded
                genreation, that men intheir prime could not be found or
        [by the macedonians] also didnt help. I dontthink we need to worry
        about invasion. The point about populism is interesting. See the
        rule on land reform legislation in Republic of Rome. --psb
           \_ It's not across from France anymore?  Where did they move it to?
                \- here is an interesting quote from Kagan:
                "It is revealing of the state of Athenian politics that
                the Athenians believed they must seek such qualities
                ["prudent cautious, moderate leadership"] in an earlier
                genreation, that men in their prime could not be found or
                trusted to provide it.". --psb
        \_ The U.K. wasnt "invaded" either, but it is no longer where
           it once was
           \_ It's not across from France anymore?  Where did they move
              it to?
           \_ Thanks to the liberals who turned it into a socialist
              welfare state.
              \_ The British Empire fell long before that. Unless you
                 are calling Winston Churchill a liberal.
                 \_ It was still an empire into the early 50's, well
                    after Churchill was out of power.
           \_ The British EMPIRE is anti-democratic.  That's why it fell.
              \_ Actually, it fell because it actually tried to be
                 somewhat nice to the people it conquered, rather than
                 ruling with an iron fist forever.
                 The last straw was of course the massive draining of
                 resources due to WWII.
                 \_ Yeah sure, massive draining of resources from the
                    colonies to the European front.  When the Japanese
                    Imperial Army came with 30000 soldiers, the 80000 Brits
                    ran so fast down the Malayan peninsula, the Japanese
                    soldiers had to grab bicycles from the locals to
                    keep up with the retreating British (note
                    that the terrain in Malaysia is unsuitable for
                    armored vehicles).
                 \_ They will face a problem 10x worse than what the
                    French had when they persisted in their anti-
                    democratic ways in Algeria and IndoChina.
                 \_ Nice?  Please explain in what ways the British were "nice"
                    conquerers.  Taken a history class anytime in this life?
                    \_ yeah, thats a pretty fucking dumb thing for someone
                    to say. it's always hard to tell on the motd who is a troll
                    and who really is a moron.  there are so many true morons
                    and so many really devoted trolls who have honed there
                    skills over the years and they both seem to like to post
                    to the motd. -troller
        \_ The democracy/republic which is the United States will persist
           as long as most people feel that the U.S. is the best country to
           be a citizen of on this planet.  It also persists on a common,
           nation-wide feeling of what is right and wrong, what is fair and
           not fair, and that honest, hard-working people can better
           their situation in a reasonable way, in the face of all that
           is wrong and not fair.  Voting to give yourself money is
           generally accepted as corrupt and embarrassing, unless you
           have a good reason that other people will buy.  For example,
           most people will vote to give veterans money, but most people
           will not vote to give only rich people tax breaks.  People
           may want to abolish taxes, but most people understand
           this will upset the system and create a situation where
           the U.S. is no longer a great place to live.  Anyways, the
           bottom line is that Tyler makes a lame, inflammatory college
           frosh argument that you'd hear in section and from your
                \_ Explain then, why every democracy in existence has
           a higher tax rate now than it did 50 years ago?  And higher
           50 years ago than it was 100 years ago, (obviously you can
           keep going with this).
           \_ Interesting trend.  Explanation not available.  Opinion
              unchanged.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19787 Activity:nil
102.166  Protest of election returns; procedure.--

(1) Any candidate for nomination or election, or any elector qualified
to vote in the election related to such candidacy, shall have the
right to protest the returns of the election as being erroneous by
filing with the appropriate canvassing board a sworn, written protest.

(2) Such protest shall be filed with the canvassing board prior to the
time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being
protested or within 5 days after midnight of the date the election is
held, whichever occurs later.

(3) Before canvassing the returns of the election, the canvassing
board shall:

(a) When paper ballots are used, examine the tabulation of the paper
ballots cast.

(b) When voting machines are used, examine the counters on the
machines of nonprinter machines or the printer-pac on printer
machines. If there is a discrepancy between the returns and the
counters of the machines or the printer-pac, the counters of such
machines or the printer-pac shall be presumed correct.

(c) When electronic or electromechanical equipment is used, the
canvassing board shall examine precinct records and election
returns. If there is a clerical error, such error shall be corrected
by the county canvassing board. If there is a discrepancy which could
affect the outcome of an election, the canvassing board may recount
the ballots on the automatic tabulating equipment.

(4)(a) Any candidate whose name appeared on the ballot, any political
committee that supports or opposes an issue which appeared on the
ballot, or any political party whose candidates' names appeared on the
ballot may file a written request with the county canvassing board for
a manual recount. The written request shall contain a statement of the
reason the manual recount is being requested.

(b) Such request must be filed with the canvassing board prior to the
time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being
protested or within 72 hours after midnight of the date the election
was held, whichever occurs later.

(c) The county canvassing board may authorize a manual recount. If a
manual recount is authorized, the county canvassing board shall make a
reasonable effort to notify each candidate whose race is being
recounted of the time and place of such recount.

(d) The manual recount must include at least three precincts and at
least 1 percent of the total votes cast for such candidate or
issue. In the event there are less than three precincts involved in
the election, all precincts shall be counted. The person who requested
the recount shall choose three precincts to be recounted, and, if
other precincts are recounted, the county canvassing board shall
select the additional precincts.

(5) If the manual recount indicates an error in the vote tabulation
which could affect the outcome of the election, the county canvassing
board shall:

(a) Correct the error and recount the remaining precincts with the
vote tabulation system;

(b) Request the Department of State to verify the tabulation software;
or

(c) Manually recount all ballots.

(6) Any manual recount shall be open to the public.

(7) Procedures for a manual recount are as follows:

(a) The county canvassing board shall appoint as many counting teams
of at least two electors as is necessary to manually recount the
ballots. A counting team must have, when possible, members of at least
two political parties. A candidate involved in the race shall not be a
member of the counting team.

(b) If a counting team is unable to determine a voter's intent in
casting a ballot, the ballot shall be presented to the county
canvassing board for it to determine the voter's intent.

(8) If the county canvassing board determines the need to verify the
tabulation software, the county canvassing board shall request in
writing that the Department of State verify the software.

(9) When the Department of State verifies such software, the
department shall:

(a) Compare the software used to tabulate the votes with the software
filed with the Department of State pursuant to s. 101.5607; and

(b) Check the election parameters.

(10) The Department of State shall respond to the county canvassing
board within 3 working days.
2000/11/16-2001/2/2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19788 Activity:nil
FreeBSD 4.2-BETA (MKVI) #0: Wed Nov 15 02:45:28 PST 2000
__        __   _                            _          ____            _
\ \      / /__| | ___ ___  _ __ ___   ___  | |_ ___   / ___|  ___   __| | __ _
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  \ V  V /  __/ | (_| (_) | | | | | |  __/ | || (_) |  ___) | (_) | (_| | (_| |
   \_/\_/ \___|_|\___\___/|_| |_| |_|\___|  \__\___/  |____/ \___/ \__,_|\__,_|
   ooo        ooooo                    oooo           oooooo     oooo ooooo
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    888b     d'888   .oooo.   oooo d8b  888  oooo       `888.   .8'    888
    8 Y88. .P  888  `P  )88b  `888""8P  888 .8P'         `888. .8'     888
    8  `888'   888   .oP"888   888      888888.           `888.8'      888
    8    Y     888  d8(  888   888      888 `88b.          `888'       888
   o8o        o888o `Y888""8o d888b    o888o o888o          `8'       o888o

              Things may work differently now.  Deal.  -root
2000/11/16-19 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:19789 Activity:nil 63%like:19855
11/16   Thanks to AMD for donating Soda Mark VI, an Athlon/700 with
        768M memory.
2000/11/16-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:19790 Activity:nil 72%like:19764 66%like:19915
**/**   Politburo Meetings 5-6pm, 1st & 3rd Tuesdays, 337 Soda Hall

        The next CSUA meeting, 21 Nov 2000, is a GENERAL MEETING.
2000/11/16-17 [Uncategorized] UID:19791 Activity:high
11/16   "The Sixth Cumming",

        Grinding and screeching in the mechanism
        The wallers cannot read the walls;
        Things fall apart; the drives cannot hold;
        Mail anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The e-filled tide is loosed, and everywhere
        The ceremony of internet is grown;
        The new lack all conviction, while the old
        Are full of passionate insanity.

        Surely a revolution is at hand;
        Surely the Sixth Coming is at hand.
        The Sixth Coming! Hardly are those words out
        When a vast image out of Corporate Abyss
        Troubles my sight: somewhere in halls of AMD
        A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
        His gaze bright and intense as the sun,
        Is bearing the great prize, while all about him
        Reel shadows of the enamored undergrads.
        The darkness drops again; but now I know
        That two long years of duty done
        Are passed to nightmare by the laws of Moore,
        And what machine, its hour come round at last,
        Slouches towards 340 to be born?

        -- Phillip "The Bloody Awful Poet" Nunez
        \_ For real?
                \_ How dare you doubt.  Phillip for President.  -John
2000/11/16-17 [Uncategorized] UID:19792 Activity:low
11/16   Props to all the rootstaff who helped with MkVI.  Thanks.
        \_  thanks mconst, mikeh, nevman, jon and brg especially.
                \_ and peterm and dbushong
2000/11/16-17 [Recreation/Computer] UID:19793 Activity:high
11/16   Are we having fun yet?
        \_ Welcome to the desert of the real.
           \_ Hi Paolo!
                \_ When Gore stops trying to steal the election, sure.
        \_ Can we not have anymore political bullshit below?
           \_ Yes.
           \_ No.
           \_ Maybe.
           \_ I don't know.
2000/11/16-17 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19794 Activity:insanely high
11/16   the new soda rocks! good job to all who contributed.
        \_ Cool! So what's the difference btwn old & new?
           \_ OLD: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/computing/hardware/soda-mark-v.html
              NEW: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/computing/hardware/soda-mark-vi.html
              \_ The linke to AMD on the new page is broken.
                 \_ Fixed, thanks.
        \_ Do we still have the lottery scheduler?
          \_ I think not. It didn't get ported to new kernel. --PeterM
              \_ How hard would that be? I have some
                 free time coming up.
                 \_ I don't think it's necessary.  Soda seems to be doing fine
                    without the lottery scheduler.
        \_ Is there a BSD equivalent to "psrinfo" and/or mpstat?
           \_ Have a look at the CPU and memory lines in /var/run/dmesg.boot.
        \_ Do we still have to worry about /var/mail hitting capacity
           as frequently?
           /dev/da3s1e            8617749  1104247  6824083    14%    /var/mail
           \_ you decide.
              \_ ummm, yes?
                 \_  Let's vote on it!
                        \_ Only if stupid people get to vote 5 times.
           \_ With about 2500 users and 10 GB, people should still
              limit themselves to 4MB.
        \_ how about a /usr/contrib setup?
        \_ Very well done.  Thanks a lot for the time and effort, guys.  -John
2000/11/16 [Politics/Foreign] UID:19795 Activity:nil
11/16   Sobering opinion from http://law.com:
        <DEAD>206.245.152.43/cgi-shl/shownews.pl?id=6471<DEAD>
2000/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:19796 Activity:nil
11/16   FL Attorney General oversteps bounds:
        http://www.news-journalonline.com/2000/Nov/16/POL1.htm
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:19797 Activity:nil
11/16   Foxnews reports Broward has recounted 45 of 600 precints.  Gore+7.
        It's over.  Math only gets just so fuzzy....
        \_ Don't have cable, is it gore ahead by 7 or gore got 7 more
           votes?
                \_ Gore gained an additional 7.  Gore still down overall.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19798 Activity:nil
11/16   http://Salon.com still living in fantasy land:
        http://salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/16/flunk/print.html
        \_ Salon is always in fantasy land. The only redeeming
           quality, is that this bs doesn't masquerade a front
           page news like it does ny times.
2000/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:19799 Activity:nil
11/16   Nation opposes recounts.  Will of the People is to let it stand.
        http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/today/news_8.html
        --Palm Beach Post.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:19800 Activity:nil
11/16   WPB officials deny request for hand recount:

In the 1984 Palm Beach election, more than 310,000 ballots were cast. The
margin between two County Commission candidates was 242 votes.

The loser in that race and in others on the ballot protested, among other
things, the hanging chad problem. Officials denied a request for a hand
recount.
http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elect2000/decision/035445.htm
2000/11/16 [Consumer/PDA] UID:19801 Activity:nil
11/16   Democrat hauling ballot punching machinery around in his car:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/florida_votamatic_001115.html
        Gets caught by police.  LePore decides not to press charges due to
        'extenuating circumstances'.

11/16
GORE'S PALM BEACH POKEY:

You put your stylus in,
You put your stylus out,
You put your stylus in,
And you punch Buchanan out.
You do the Palm Beach Pokey
And you turn the count around,
That's what it's all about!

You put the Gore votes in,
You put the Bush votes out,
You put the Gore votes in,
And you do another count.
You do the Palm Beach Pokey
And you turn the count around,
That's what it's all about!

You bring your lawyers in,
You drag the whole thing out,
You bring your lawyers in,
And you put it all in doubt.
You do the Palm Beach Pokey
And you turn the count around,
That's what it's all about!

You let your doctors spin,
You let the pundits spout,
You let your retirees sue,
And your people whine and pout.
You do the Palm Beach Pokey
And you turn the count around,
That's what it's all about!

You do the Palm Beach Pokey,
You do the Palm Beach Pokey,
You do the Palm Beach Pokey,
That's what it's all about!
2000/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:19802 Activity:nil
11/16   Plonk.
2000/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:19803 Activity:nil
11/16   Where did inews move to?
2000/11/16-19 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:19804 Activity:nil
11/16   Why does the new sshd reject cipher type IDEA on Mk6?
        \_ because the new sshd does not support IDEA.
           \_ Why not?
           \_ Is it possible to build openssh with IDEA support?
           \_ Probably because IDEA is patent encumbered, where 3DES and
              Blowfish (and twofish, and rijndael, etc) are not.
2000/11/16-17 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19805 Activity:high 50%like:19535
11/16   Wow, a non political motd.
        \_ hey, it's 270 GB of disk coupled with 768 MB of RAM. If
           anything's more exciting than politics it's that.
           \_ Actually, it's "only" 180 GB of disk.  I should fix the webpage.
              \_ Oh, is that it? Well, anything below 200 GB doesn't
                 deserve my attention.
                 \_ Great, more for the rest of us.
2000/11/16-17 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Languages/Functional] UID:19806 Activity:high
11/16   I have two arrays a1 and a2 and I need to create an array a3
        that contains all the elements in a2 that are not in a1. I'm
        doing this by removing elements in a2 that are in a1, but this
        is an operation of nm complexity (where n is number of elems in
        a1 and m is number of elems in a2), is there a better way to
        do this? - not a cs geek
        \_ are the arrays sorted?  can they be? (becomes (m+n) lg m problem)
           \_ I could sort the arrays, but the contents are
              strings, so I'm not sure what difference it
              would make.
        \_ This is a O(size(a1) + size(a2)) operation.
           Create a hashtable.  Go through a1, and hash the elements.  Now go
           through a2, and insert an element into a3 if it is not in the
           hashtable.  This is an entry level coder interview question. -- ilyas
           \_ I see. Thanks.
           \_ can you give me an example of a suitable hash function?  Thx.
              \_ google.  Here is the first result of my search:
                 http://burtleburtle.net/bob/hash/doobs.html
                 \_ this is confusing.  can you give me a clear example,
                    pls?  Thanks.
                    \_ Train harder, grasshopper.
                       \_ Someone said this was an interview question.
                          Is there a simple enough solution that you
                          can write out for the interview?
                          \_ There is, but I will not write it out for you.
                             Firstly, because most interviewers are interested
                             in an algorithm, not an implementation, and
                             secondly because you are lazy, and I have no
                             desire to do your work for you
                             \_ I'm still confused as to why hashing
                                is the solution.  What if your
                                array values were int's?  Is hashing
                                still better?  By the way, you need to
                                be less presumptuous, among other things.
                                \_ I don't think I am presumptuous.  I think
                                   I am being very polite, patient and helpful.
                                   You, on the other hand, are acting like an
                                   immature, impatient, ungrateful, lazy prick.
                                   For your information, one can come up with
                                   'reasonable' hashing functions for arbitrary
                                   data structures (java does something like
                                   that).
                                \_ You're getting free advice, you should
                                   be thankful you've gotten this much
                                   information. -someone else
                                   \_ There is something wrong with you.
                                      Do not think because you give
                                      free advice that you can be
                                      an asshole at the same time.
                                     \_ yer the asshole who said I was
                                        presumptuous.  -someone else #2
                        \_ I hate ungrateful dumbasses who think that
                           people owe him an answer.
        \_ The answer is on the WWW. Look it up.
           \_ found it on google. Its in the perlfaq.
        \_
(defun find-common (a1 a2)
  (mapcar (lambda (elm1) (setf (symbol-plist elm1)
                               (cons 'marked (symbol-plist elm1))))
          a1)
  (prog1
      (mapcan (lambda (elm2)
                (if (eq (car (symbol-plist elm2)) 'marked)
                    (list elm2)))
              a2)
      (mapcar (lambda (elm1) (setf (symbol-plist elm1)
                                  (cdr (symbol-plist elm1))))
              a1)
      ))
2000/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:19807 Activity:nil
11/16   Any reason why http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/.../somedir doesn't check for
        somedir/index.shtml?
        \_ probably a one line fix in apache configuration, bug root
2000/11/16-17 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:19808 Activity:moderate
11/16   Do we want to copy over the old ssh host key?  Or is it a feature?
        \_ The host key has not changed.  ssh has.  We're now using OpenSSH.
                \_ Oh course the host key has been changed. Otherwise I
                   wouldn't get this when trying to login:
                   \_ Due to a bug, old ssh created a 1023bit key instead of
                      a 1024 bit key.  It advertized it as 1024bits.  OpenSSH
                      tells the truth that it's 1023, which makes your ssh
                      client unhappy.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@       WARNING: HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!         @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!
                                               \_ ooh!
Someone could be eavesdropping on you right now (man-in-the-middle attack)!
.....
        \_ you can fix this by editing your ~/.ssh/known_hosts file. next to
           the csua key, change the length from 1024 to 1023.
2000/11/16-19 [Uncategorized] UID:19809 Activity:nil 63%like:19854 53%like:20503
11/16   Mail bug reports to staff@csua.  Complaints on wall/motd
        will be ignored.
2000/11/16-17 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:19810 Activity:high
11/16   Anybody know (for certain) of a retail store in the Bay Area
        that has Thinkpad T20s on display? The usual places (Fry's,
        CompUSA, BestBuy, etc) don't carry them, and IBM's Dealer
        Locator doesn't turn up any retailers.  --vchang
        \_ not for certain, but the Stanford bookstore has some
           Thinkpads on display last time I checked ...
2000/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:19811 Activity:nil
11/16   When geeks are presented with a new toy, politics becomes boring.
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:November:16 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>