6/17 If you're concerned about competing for jobs with H1B visa
recipients, consider writing your Congresspeople and president.
The economy sucks right now and companies are hiring H1B people
instead of recent grads or recent layoff-ees.
\_ Actually, most high-tech companies just plain aren't
hiring anyone right now. Plenty of openings in fast-food
& retail though, and they can't hire H1-B's.
You can find addresses for some senators/congressmen/president in
~peterm/Addresses. Get your friends to write, too. --PeterM
\_ I didn't have you pegged as a xenophobe, peterm. -tom
\_ I deny being xenophobic. The rationalization for H1Bs
was always that companies couldn't fill positions.
I know plenty of people who can't find jobs now.
The time for H1B's has ended, for now. I'm happy to
have them all back when the economy improves. Also,
I have no objection to IMMIGRATION. But this half-assed
H1B serfdom is perverting the market.--PeterM
\_ This is a logical fallacy: "X is a better solution,
so we should oppose Y." I don't see you writing letters to
congresspeople telling them to relax immigration laws, and
it's highly unlikely in the current political climate that
immigration laws will change at all. So getting rid of
H1B's is equivalent to "getting rid of those damn furriners
who are taking 'our' jobs", as if we have more of a right
to those jobs because of where we were born. Do you buy
anything electronic? Ride a Taiwanese bike? "American"
jobs have been farmed out to furriners who will work for
less for many years. Now that it's happening (on a very
small scale) to rich white guys, it's suddenly a problem.
Boo fuckin' hoo. -tom
\_ Wow, I agree with tom, for once. Open borders, all the way.
\_ I drive a japanese car. Open borders all the way.
\_ Yes let's just distribute everything equally to everyone in
the world! Why should I have more than the overcrowded
destitute multitudes! We should all live like that! Think
how efficient it will be having dense cities of hard workers
with mass transit and solar panels and windmills on all the
roofs! Ah, it brings a tear to my eye. Viva la revalucion!
\_ who said anything about distribution? we're talking
about letting your vaunted free market decide who
gets the money. Oh I forgot, you only like the free
market when it benefits rich white males. -tom
\_ "why are you bashing white males like everyone else,
tom? it it because it's the right thing to do?"
"no, but it's quicker...easier...more seductive
if that's the question. -tom
than coming up with a real answer"
\_ uh, a real answer to what? -tom
\_ It's pretty easy to work at a University job and say being
against H1B Visa's is an example of xenophobia. Try
competing in the open market where you are up against H1B
people who claim to be able to do your job for 1/3 the pay
\_ Immigration is very necessary to a strong economy. For
and see how pro H1B you end up being. The result is that
the market gets flooded, wages go down, and you've turned
California into the traffic congested, out of energy mess
it is today. -ax
\_ It's trivial to compete if you are smart. Are you smart, ax?
\_ It's easy to sit around in a job with artifically high
wages created by an artificially constrained supply of
workers and then complain when the party's over. -tom
\_ Are you prepared to give up your Cal job to an H1B
Visa holder who will do it for less money than you and put
your money where your mouth is? -ax
\_ I don't feel I have anything to fear from H1B visa holders,
which is the relevant question. -tom
\_ let me get this straight. are you seriously blaming
immigrants for the energy crisis in california?
\_ 25% of the people in California are not citizens.
We're about 25% short on power. See an easy solution
to this math problem? The population of the US
only grows because of immigration. -ax
\_ Immigration is very necessary for a strong economy. For
example, the Japanese have priced themselves out of
many job markets, but they refuse to allow Koreans
and others willing to work those jobs into Japan. The
end result is that the Japanese economy is stagnant
even though the net worth of an average Japanese is
$450,000. --dim
\_ and the US, specifically, is forecast to have
growing need for immigrant labor for precisely
this reason. Guess ax will just stop eating
grapes. -tom
\_ I'm sure a lot of those non-citizens are illegal immigrants
from places like Mexico. How much electricity do you think
they use? Electricity use is not evenly distributed among
the populace. Let's not forget that a lot of the power
consumption is from businesses (server farms, etc.).
\_ If a company is dumb enough to hire someone less qualified
(and believe me, there are a lot) then they should have the
right to. But I don't think being an H1Ber has any bearing
on your qualifications (or your lack thereof) or your likely-
hood of being hired. Actually, you're probably less likely
because managers would rather not go through the hassle of
dealing with an H1B applicant. As for my experience, I had
to work with 2 NCGs, one of which had an H1B. I found the
\_ ??
\_ new college graduate. -tom
American citizen utterly incompetent but the guy on H1B to
be qualified.
\_ from a companies point of view, H1B's can be good -- they tend
to get locked to a company 3-6 years at a time.
Also, do you have more objective proof of some of the annecdotes
you offer?
\_ Of course it is good for companies. Wouldn't you want
an employee you could underpay, overwork, and have thrown
\_ Shut up, Paolo.
out of the country for any reason whatsover?
\_ PeterM, immigrants are essential to the U.S. economy. Without
the cheap Indian and Chinese workers the hi-tech industry wouldn't
have boomed the way before. Also without the cheap Mexican and
negros you'd have to pay $10 per nugget. Immigrants are good.
\_ If that argument were true, the economy would be booming beyond
belief now since we have more cheap labor than ever. -ax
\_ You are right. We needed the foreign labor then. Now,
we don't, and citizens have to compete with non-citizens
who cannot compete fairly in the job market because they
are hindered by red tape. IF WE WANT FOREIGN WORKERS
MAKE THEM CITIZENS INSTEAD OF H1Bs. No more H1Bs. Either
FULL citizenship or GET THEM OUT. --PeterM
\_ what about green cards?
\_ Those with green cards don't have to have an employer to
stay in the country, right? Their bargaining position is
equal to a citizen's, then, and they won't pervert the
labor market, as much, or at all. --PeterM
\_ along similar lines, why not support labor laws
requiring businesses to pay H1Bs fair market wages?
just curious --erikred
\_ I wouldn't make a statement as strong as "FULL
citizenship or GET THEM OUT", but I would say that
if there are temporary work visas for foreigners, the
foreign workers should have the same privledges as
citizens/permanant residents. This would be more
fair to both citizens and to the foreign workers. In the
current law, the people who benefit are big corporations --
they can hire H1B applicants for less money and it is a
pain in the ass for H1B applicants to switch to a new
employeer. Both the citizens/prem. residents and H1B
holders get screwed in this deal.
\_ I say throw the illegal immigrants in vats of boiling oil
and tape it, then show the tape on HBO. This will send
a message to the rest of the world that we are bad-ass
mutha-fuckahs.
\_ They just upped the number of visas. By the time you get
congress to change the laws back, we'll start needing them
foreign workers again. Congress must think we are nuts out here
in California -- we WANT H1B's, we DO NOT WANT H1B's. we WANT,
we DO NOT WANT...Make up your friggin mind. In good or bad economy
the labor arguments: "H1B serfdom is perverting the market"
(peter M) still apply, so why now? friggin idiots you should have
thought about this before you let them up it in the first place.
\_ Hey, I have always been against HB1B visas and have even
gotten friends of mine to write stories in the Examiner
and Chronicle outlining the dangers (this was years ago,
btw, way before the bubble popped). It is easy to mouth off
on the motd, but a bit harder to actually go out and do
something about it. Now that the cat it out of the bag,
so to speak, I think we have an obligation to give full
citizenship to the HB1B visa holders (and the inevitable
25 relatives they will want to bring over). But I still
think we should cut off the indentured servitude program. -ausman
\_ Give me concrete proof that companies are hiring more H1B visa
holders right now -- my experience is that most companies are
passing over candidates with H1Bs and favoring either green
card holders or citizens in this current market. Most of the hiring
managers I run into don't want to wait for any sort of visa
processing and feel they can find someone immediately available
under the current job market conditions. --chris
\- you know this is pretty interesting to read. i think it is a
good example of moral reasoning not coming from intuition. --psb
\- i fwd this to my liberal indian activist friends. they
will soon be picketing sloda now they are done with that
pederast reddy. well at least you guys will be able to check
out some hot indian women. tom might even get some for leading
the good fight. ok tnx. --psb
\_ I've "got some," tnx. -tom
\_ Your liberal indian friends need to be shipped back to
India, where the victory of socialism has already been
achieved. They will have nothing to picket there, they
ll just slowly starve to death. |
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