Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:December:01 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2000/12/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:19964 Activity:high
11/30   I have admin. rights on my NT box at work. I don't want the damn NT
        admins mucking around with my box.  Is there a way to keep them from
        doing things to it (e.g. updating software) over the network? -unix
        admin.
        \_ Unplug your network cable.
           \_ Won't help if they have console access. Dual boot OpenBSD and
              NT. Use OpenBSD exclusively. Just let the luser NT admins boot
              NT to do thier shit.
        \_ tcp wrappers
        \_ remove Domain Admins from Administrators group
        \_ Cant you go to the Users & Passwords control panel and remove
           the domain administrators access privledges to your machine?
        [all bullshit answers removed.  -motd NT truth god]
           \_ obligatory real os post is not bs.
        \_ edit "User Rights" policies.
2000/12/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19965 Activity:nil 64%like:19968
11/30   I'm a little frustrated at how bloated FreeBSD is. Its almost like
        a LinSUX distribution. Is there a way to just install the kernel
        and a small portion of userland? Should I just stick to OpenBSD?
        FreeBSD is a little faster and has java so I'm a little hesitant
        to switch.
2000/12/1 [Recreation/Food] UID:19966 Activity:high
11/30   A not so Happy Meal at McDonald's:
        http://dailypress.com/news/stories/87795sy0.htm
        \_ Video coverage:
           http://www.pilotonline.com/videoNEWS/nw1130hea.html
        \_ Ortega was unable to sleep Tuesday night, she said.
           "I kept thinking about my children eating it," Ortega said.

           Uh, gee you're eating a chicken, would it really be such a
           ghastly catastrophe to bite its head?  What about:
           "Chicken wing found in meal"?
           \_ What's the difference between eating the body and
           in the box.
              eating the head? Its all meat right? - vegi
        \_ What's the big deal!!!???  It's not like she found chicken shit
           in the box.  She's just trying to gain publicity to lay the path
           to a million dollar lawsuit.  Laywers nowadays have another option
           of becoming fast-food-diner chaser besides ambulance chaser.  Next
           time when I find a piece of chicken drumstick in my box of
           chicken wings, I'll call up the press and scream "Ohmygad!  What
           a horrible thing.  I was unable to sleep!"
           \_ David Boies and Alan Dershewitz (sp?) need to live. I mean ALGOR
              can't pay the bills forever.
                \_ question for troll: do you really think spelling it
                   "ALGOR" is clever?  -tom
                   \_ look it up on websters, it means cold, chillness.
                      Can't think of a better description for him than
                      that. He's barely animated, a true cold fish, you
                      almost want to take his pulse to see if he's alive.
                      If websters had pics, they would have his next to
                      this word.
                \_ It's ok, just ask IBM to pay them.
        \_ Cool! Next time I see a chicken breast, I'll sue them for
           sexual harassment and indecent exposure.
2000/12/1 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19967 Activity:nil
11/30   Does `kill -9 pid` work any more?  For some reason, I cannot kill
        process using kill command.
        \_ Do you own the process?
           \_ yes.  My ISP connection died and left it hanging.
              \_ do a ps -auwxx | grep <pid>, this should give you
                 the tty. The look for a shell that is running on
                 that tty and send the shell a kill -HUP <pid>, if
                 you have multiple shells repeat until your procs
                 are dead.
        \_ No it was outlawed last month.
2000/12/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19968 Activity:insanely high 64%like:19965
11/30   I'm a little frustrated at how bloated FreeBSD is. Its almost like
        a RedHat Linux distribution. Is there a way to just install the kernel
        and a small portion of userland?
        \_ without ports or X what exactly do you obect to? tcsh?
           be serious. --aaron
           \_ I don't need x, gtk, gimp, window managers, tcsh, zsh, and
              and all of /usr/local. I'm looking for /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin,
               and /usr/sbin with a few addons like nmh, screen, perl, cc
               and javac.
                \_ /usr/local is where ports install and none are installed
                   by default. true, tcsh is part of the base now, but
                   excepting that, i installed a system without any of the
                   things you mention, just by NOT checking boxes. have you
                   ever personally installed bsd? --aaron
                   \_ yeah, most of my boxes run either OpenBSD or Linux (for
                      work related stuff) and I have one box running FreeBSD.
                      I selected the default install, which as several people
                      have indicated was wrong. I'm going to install FreeBSD
                      4.2 this weekend without selecting anything and see how
                      that goes. Thanks.
        \_ http://people.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd.html - paolo
           \_ I need a little more than what fits on a floppy.
              But it sounds like a good starting point. I'll check
              it out.
        \_ FreeBSD is basically a linux distribution now, only with a lot less
           vendor support and snooty unhelpful users.
           \_ Its is supposedly high performance though. I'm contemplating
              switching over to OpenBSD or NetBSD. Do either of them have
              softupdates or memory fs in working order?
              \_ OpenBSD's vm is kinda screwy, but yes it has softupdates.
                 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#14.5 - paolo
                 \_ vm is screwy? You mean the new encrypt swapped pages
                    stuff or something else? Is NetBSD's better? Also how
                    is NFS v3 support? Shitty like linux or decent like
                    FreeBSD?
        \_ Sure!  Pick Custom Install and just choose the exact Distributions
           you want.  For your convenience, there are a bunch of bundles
           (and of course Custom, which lets you pick everything)  Try the
           Minimal bundle.  --dbushong
           \_ Thanks. I try it this weekend as I'm planning to upgrade to
              FreeBSD 4.2.
              \_ FYI, Debian Linux has an extremely minimal install. - entire
                 system on 3 floppies, w/ a good pkg mgr so you can select
                 and de-select accordingly.
                 \_ I know your heart is in the right place, but I wouldn't
                    run linux unless I had no other choice. I've used it for
                    several years (starting in the mid 90's) and I write code
                    for linux and solaris. Its just not right for me. Perhaps
                    its right for people who pay me money for my code, but not
                    for me.
2000/12/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19969 Activity:very high
12/1    How come there's the anti-linux setiment on the motd?
        \_ Just your typical Berkeley not-invented-here syndrome. They're
           just a bunch of bitter fucks who can't stomach the idea that the
           orthodox BSD/Unix way, whether it was actually better or not,
           didn't win the hearts and minds of the modern Unix-like OS user
           base. If you want to drive the point home, ask your friendly
           neighborhood BSD advocate about installing on a laptop with
           cardbus support, or about the state of their USB subsystems given
           their vaunted bus/device tree autoconfiguration system, or about
           exactly which bloated userland they stole the compiler from.
           I ought to add that if you spend less time bitching about which
           tools you use and figuring out how to use the right tool for the
           job, instead, you will find this whole (meta-)discussion just as
           laughable as I do.
           \_ Look if I want USB, cardbus etc I'd go with a consumer OS
              like MacOS or M$. They do USB et al far better than LinSUX.
              And how about LinSUX's inability to change the speed and
              like MacOS or M$. They do USB et al far better than Linux.
              that fread,fwrite on LinSUX is *faster* than mmap()? Or
              how about lousy thread scheduling?
        \_ Cause LinSUX. It has a weak vm subsystem, a weak TCP/IP stack,
              And how about Linux's inability to change the speed and
              duplex of a NIC without a reboot? And how about the fact
              \_ NT can change anything without a reboot?
              that fread,fwrite on Linux is *faster* than mmap()? Or
              how about lousy thread scheduling? Or threads having
              different process ids, which means that SIGCHLD won't
              always be recieved correctly? What about TCP/IP queue drops
              on 100 Full Duplex? I could go on...
              I have to code for Linux and its a pain to get things
              to run at the same efficiency they do on BSD or Solaris.
                \_ This is a bad argument.  BSD, while generally a cleaner
                   and more manageable OS, has catching up to do in some
                   areas (and vice versa, mind you.)  -John
                   \_ I could care less about USB support or KEWL 3D.
                      Adding this stuff won't help me get bits from
                      net to ram, ram to disk and visa versa any faster.
                      UNIX is not a toy, if you want a toy use M$ or MacOS
                      or Linux. I would have a more favorable view of
                      Linux if it wasn't so concentrated on being all things
                      to everyone.
        \_ Well, in the real world, things like hardware and software support
           actually matter.  Typical sysadmin snottiness.  For things other
           than pure server duties like web hosting or motd flamewars, Linux
           has a clear advantage and that's why it's more popular.  Try doing
           ASIC engineering using BSD, or anything related to multimedia.
           Linux is the one for "real work."  BSD is for academia and net
           servers.  -- !sysadmin
           \_ what an odd little response so early in the morning! i don't
              use bsd so i won't compare, but: linux kernel modules have
              allowed dynamic change of speed/duplex flags on NICs for
              at least the last 6 years; changing framesize for gig-E
              NICs doesn't even require a module reload... you can just
              ifconfig the thing while it remains up; my clustered code
              mmaps little files (around 1 MB each) and rips through a
              few 100 GB in read-once mode much faster than with fread's
              extra copies (i measured them back when i started doing
              \_ I don't know which NICS you are using, but I've got
                 IntelEtherExpress Pro 100s (which work great under
                 BSD) with most of the driver rewritten to avoid problems,
                 and I still see lots of collisions and frame errors
                 and so on under high load ~ 4000K/s to 6000K/s data
                 transfer on 100BaseT.
              application profiling); haven't had any problems with my
                 I'm using mmap() for speeding the transfer of small to
                 medium sized files (few hundred k to few meg), but under
                 Linux there is no advantage to using mmap(), its acutally
                 slower (probably because of the vm subsystem) than fread,
                 by an observable amount.
                 Loading and unloading modules requires the entire module
                 subsystem to be compiled in, which is a bunch of overhead
                 I don't need. I should not have to build the drivers as
                 modules and use some stupid modload hack in order to set
                 speed and duplex (ifconfig and the corresponding system
                 calls should handle this, which is true of real OSs).
        \_ Cause LinSUX. It has a weak vm subsystem, a weak TCP/IP stack,
              portable threaded code, but ok if you say so; i routinely
              get 96 Mb/s duplex over 100baseT, about 178 Mb/s over
              dual-bonded 100baseT, and about 400 Mb/s over gig-E without
              jumbo frames... who cares if there were a few queue drops
              at that speed?  i'm not bagging bsd, just meritless
              knee-jerk criticism of something you apparently know
              little about.  -karlcz
        \_ Cause Linux. It has a weak vm subsystem, a weak TCP/IP stack,
           a weak scheduler, a hacky filesystem, weak I/O, poorly written
           drivers and a bloated GNU userland. However its just good enough
           for most people, thus its popular.
           ISPs, small business, big business, like it cause its cheap to
           get a linux box and set it up and serve some web pages and some
           db stuff etc. Yeah you may not have the best possible performance,
           but the time to market is more important than performance in
           vast majority of cases.
           Alternatives are much more professional.
        \_ pragmatically, the sysadmin salary survey showed that a solaris
        admin made $3K  more than a typical Linux admin, and $4K more than
        a BSD admin.   To be fair, the BSD license is nice to money-minded
        programmers.  However, the usercommunity (just look at the above
        comments) of BSD really should approach things in a more user-helpful
        state.  A perfect piece of softwar with no users is not very useful-
        and you're not going to get new users if you berate them.  It's a
        problem of increasing returns - without a usercommunity you don't have
        hw support etc etc.
           \- why do you give a rats ass what other people think about your
           OS of choice [or editor or what tom thinks about how you spell
           ALGOR]. it's one thing to talk about technical merits or theoretical
           ideas. you do need to keep in mind "i think linux has more technical
           merit than fBSD" is not a technical discussion but an opinion/state-
           ment of preference. --psb
        \_ Nice flame bait, troll.  What the hell.  I'll bite.  I prefer *bsd
           because the system level config is more consistent.  Linux looks
           like a giant hack job with random shit thrown all over the disk
           in a half assed willy nilly style.  I don't like wasting my time
           relearning half the os everytime there's a patch or new version of
                           \_ I would Solaris to this as well. OSs that were
                              written in order to help people to actual WORK,
                              not sit around and play with transparent terms.
           everything.  I also don't buy into the "security through many eyes"
           thing.  Linux is just as buggy and insecure as a MS box and a large
           percentage of Linux users wouldn't know the difference.  MS makes a
           good office productivity tool for desktops.  It's ok if they need
           to reboot once or twice a day.  Linux makes a nice toy for people
           running a home box or who don't know what they're doing and need
           lots of help from their almost-as-clueless linux buddies.  *bsd is
           for people with work to get done.   -unix admin
2000/12/1 [Health/Men] UID:19970 Activity:nil
11/30   You can have Erecto pills for 1/50th the price of a Viagra tablet.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/01/science/01PIRA.html
2000/12/1 [Uncategorized] UID:19971 Activity:nil
11/30   http://www.ilovebacon.com/jokes/110900c.shtml
2000/12/1 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:19972 Activity:nil
11/30   I'm having a problem running a toy pthreads program on FreeBSD. I ran
        strace on it and it looks like it exits after SIGUSR1 or SIGUSR2. The
        same program seems to run fine on (dare I say it) Linux. Any ideas?

#include <stdio.h>
#include <pthread.h>

void print_msg( void *ptr ) {
char *message;
message = (char *) ptr;
printf("%s ", message);
}

int main(int argc, char **argv) {

pthread_t thread1, thread2;
char *message1 = "Hello";
char *message2 = "World";

pthread_create(&thread1, NULL, (void*)&print_msg, (void*) message1);
pthread_create(&thread2, NULL, (void*)&print_msg, (void*) message2);

return 0;
}
        \_ Insert after the creates:

           pthread_join(thread1, NULL);
           pthread_join(thread2, NULL);

           I have no idea what I'm doing. -clueless-sodan
           \_ Yep, you definitely to somehow block so that the threads
              have time to execute.  Otherwise main() will just
              exit; whether or not it waits for threads to run to
              termination is implementation dependent.
              \_ Yeah, I just figured out that this is true. I guess
                 this is one other aspect where LinSUX tries to act
                 smart for you. The annoying thing is that I copied
                 the example right out of the pthreads book from Sun.
                 The Sun Press authors generally don't leave this sort
                 of thing out. (Yes the book is on pthreads, not solaris
                 threads).
        \_ Build with gcc -pthread?
           \_ I compiled with cc -g -Wall -pthread -o thread_test thread_test.c
              the two print_msg functions never get called.
              \_ Please follow the clueless-sodan's advice. -clueless-sodan
2000/12/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:19973 Activity:high
12/1    More evidence of Republicans trying to disenfranchise the poor,
        minorities and other citizens they don't like:
        http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/elect2000/digdocs/080337.htm
        \_ Read it again. 75% of those illegal votes were by registered
           Democrats. And yes, felons and aliens can't vote -- Sorry Gore.
           \_ A vote is a vote, simply because someone who cast a vote
              isn't a citizen or made some mistakes in the past, isn't
              a valid reason to disqualify their vote. Everyone makes
              mistakes, and at some point in the past most americans
              weren't citizens of america.
              Valid reasons to disqualify votes are:
              1. Failure to get a postmark on your absentee ballot.
                 Its the law and you have to abide by the law. And
                 don't tell me you are serving in the line of fire
                 and can't get to a local post office. I've heard
                 that excuse before.
              2. A vote for my opponent. DAMN who you be so dumb?
        \_ how the hell do you infer that Republicans are to blame for this?
           Quote from the article: "Nearly 75 percent of the illegal ballots
           discovered by The Herald were cast by registered Democrats."
        \_ Hi troll.  Felons can't vote.  I am sure Republicans don't like
           them, but you can't disenfranchise someone with no right to vote,
           now can you?
           \_ How dare you suggest that felons and non-citizens can't be
              disenfranchised! Anyone who wanted to vote for me or voted
              for me but hasn't had thier vote counted can be disenfranchised.
              The only invalid ballots come from soliders in the field who
              can't be bothered to get a postmark. Come on, how hard is it
              to get a postmark? Even the felons and illegals, who are a
              significant percentage of my base, got postmarks. - Al
2000/12/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:19974 Activity:low
11/30   I'm having a problem running a toy pthreads program on FreeBSD. I ran
        strace on it and it looks like it exits after SIGUSR1 or SIGUSR2. The
        same program seems to run fine on (dare I say it) Linux. Any ideas?
        [why can't you not put source files in the motd?]
           \_ most people won't read it if its in a file.
        \_ Insert after the creates:

           pthread_join(thread1, NULL);
           pthread_join(thread2, NULL);

           I have no idea what I'm doing. -clueless-sodan
           \_ Yep, you definitely to somehow block so that the threads
              have time to execute.  Otherwise main() will just
              exit; whether or not it waits for threads to run to
              termination is implementation dependent.
              \_ Yeah, I just figured out that this is true. I guess
                 this is one other aspect where Linux tries to act
                 smart for you. The annoying thing is that I copied
                 the example right out of the pthreads book from Sun.
                 The Sun Press authors generally don't leave this sort
                 of thing out. (Yes the book is on pthreads, not solaris
                 threads).
        \_ Build with gcc -pthread?
           \_ I compiled with cc -g -Wall -pthread -o thread_test thread_test.c
              the two print_msg functions never get called.
              \_ Please follow the clueless-sodan's advice. -clueless-sodan
2000/12/1-2 [Uncategorized] UID:19975 Activity:kinda low
12/01   Do gay men have a desire to have kids?
        \_ You can try asking yourself first.
2000/12/1-2 [Industry/Startup] UID:19976 Activity:insanely high
12/01   Salary poll (not counting contractors)
        \_ How many times have we had this poll?
        \_ How many times have we had yermom?
                \_ Poll: Too many times
                         Never                                  .
                         We need to have another poll like this
        < $60000
        $60k - $70k
        $70k - $80k     .
        $80k - $90k     ...
        $90k - $100k    .
        > $100k         .
                ;-)
        3.4M    fresh out of college 98, IPOed 2 years ago.
                \_ are you for real?
                \_ paper money?
                \_ Well, if he got out in 98, he probably has vested
                   and cashed out half of his options already.  lucky bastard.
                   \_ Let's see.  He got in 98 as entry level.  NOt likely
                      he got too many options especially at IPO time.  Unless
                      the price is very very high (~$400-$800).
                \_ how many options did you get? i only got 8000 , 2k for first
                year...
2000/12/1-2 [Computer/Networking] UID:19977 Activity:kinda low
12/01   What's the difference between bridge and router as it relates
        to DSL service and static IPs?  What are the advantages/disadvantages
        of one over the other?  Am I possibly sharing the same subnet with
        other DSL users if a bridge is used?  What does it mean to have
        a single static IP?  Does that mean I don't have a network or
        broadcast address?  Does that mean it has to be bridged, or is
        that a /31 (or is /30 the smallest possible subnet) subnet?
        \_ "It doesn't matter."  If it's not PPPoE yer good.
           Please read TCP/IP Internetworking from O'Reilly and come again
           later.
           \_ Do you mean TCP/IP Network Administration?
              I could not find the answers I seek there.
              \_ Whoops.  Yes, that's the book.
        \_ There is no difference to you as a user between using a DSL
           router and a bridge, other than having a DSL bridge when the
           connection requires a router or vice versa.
           Perhaps what you want is for someone to draw out a network
           diagram for you.  If you can give me a link to a free GUI that
           will do that, I'll draw one out for you.
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:December:01 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>