Computer SW Languages Java - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Computer:SW:Languages:Java:
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2018/12/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2001/3/5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20718 Activity:nil
3/5     For the "First Class" stamps which I bought for $0.33 but which don't
        have "33 cents" printed on them, does it mean I can still use them now
        34-cent stamps?  Thanks.
        \_ If you post a letter with 33c instead of 34c, the post office
           will probably still deliever it, but they are under no obligation
           to do so. I wouldn't send any bills that need to arrive in a
           timely fashion with just a 33c stamp on it.
           If you want to be on the safe side, buy some 1c stamps and add
           them to your letters.
        \_ I have sent exactly 1 under-posted letter out and got exactly
           1 under-posted letter returned for more postage.
        \_ No; they were first class stamps when they were printed, but their
           first-classness has been superseded now that there's a newer series
           of non-denominated first-class stamps.  They're worth whatever the
           first class rate was at the time they were printed (part of the
           reason they started printing the year on stamps a while back).
           \_ I just bought some first-class stamps (no value printed) from
              the post office a few days ago for $0.34 each, but there are
              "2000" printed on them.  Does that mean I got cheated and they
              are only good for the first-class rate last year?
        \_ why does the PO make stamps that don't have the value printed on
           them?  it's silly.  is it just so that they can print the stamps
           before they decide on new rates?
2001/2/18-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20631 Activity:high
2/18    I have this Java program that uses ICEsoft's free version of the
        browser inside a java.awt.Container object.  The problem is,
        the ICEsoft's free browser doesn't run JavaScript and the
        full version costs way too much.  Is there any cheaper
        alternative?  The browser needs to support JavaScript (preferrably
        ECMAScript) and rich-media contents through Java Media Framework.
        No, I cannot use IE or Navigator.  I need to run a browser inside
        my Java application, not running an applet inside a browser.
        \_ Opera
        \_ Is sun's hotjava still around?
                \_ Sun killed further development, but you can still
                        download the last version, HotJava 3.0, which
                        is comparable to NS 4.0/IE 4.0
2018/12/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2001/2/18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20629 Activity:kinda low
2/17    How hard is it for new grad's in CS/EECS to get a job in this
        environment?  Do you mainly interview for Java programming type
        of positions?
        \_ Not hard at all if you have half a brain and managed to learn
           something.  And there are still far more non-Java jobs than
           Java jobs out there.
2001/2/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20617 Activity:nil
2/16    What's the semantic difference between Java clone() and replicate()?
        \_ where'd you see replicate() being used?  it's not in the 1.3 API
2001/2/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20544 Activity:high
2/8     can someone please recommend a beginning java book for someone
        who's only programming experience is equivalent to 61a?  thanks.
        \_ Just Java by Van der Linden is pretty good.
        \_ "Thinking In Java" is almost too verbose. like having your hand
           held every step of the way. available online, for free. google.
           type "thinking in java bruce"
        \_ Just Java by Peter Van der Linden
                \_ thank you.  this is the first time i've gotten
                   a straight answer on the motd.
                   \_ so all the previous motd answers are gay?
2001/1/28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20457 Activity:nil
1/27    public class cracker extends hacker {
2001/1/26 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20441 Activity:nil
1/25    Java is dead as of today.
        \_ I love C#.
           \_ Hi talg!
2001/1/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20349 Activity:low
1/16    Anyone have any empirical evidence on which is currently more in
        demand: java or c++ programmers?
        \_I'm dealing with that exact issue right now, and it seems that both
          are highly in demend (VC++ more than C++), but Java jobs pay slightly
2001/1/11-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20296 Activity:moderate
1/11    my company (a b2b integrator) is asking all engineers to be
        java-certified.  what am i to do???
        \_ Quit and get a real job.
        \_ certified as in certified by Sun?  Isn't this a diploma mill kind of
           a thing?
        \_ Get them to pay for a java certification.  -John
        \_ Like John says.  If they want certified engineers and they don't
           pay for it are they expecting their entire staff to go get trained
           on their own dime and time?  I think not.  Put them on the defensive
           and ask what the details of the company sponsored cert program are.
2001/1/11 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20292 Activity:nil
1/10    How hard is it to write a Java applet which does some work and then
        sends info back to a cgi script?  Client server would be nice, but I
        can't run a continual process on the server.  Any examples?
        \_ trivial - just use the java builtin calls to make an http request
           back to the server.
2001/1/10-11 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20282 Activity:high
1/9     Alright, so why does Java have both "abstract" and "interface"?
        Isn't that redundant?
        \_ Java is doomed.  Don't get too into it.
        \_ no. interfaces can't contain implementation.  train harder.
           \_ you too must train harder.  abstract methods also don't
              contain implementation.  train even harder.
              \_ if you think the q refers to the method qualifier, you suck.
              \_ you also must train harder. you can have 1 method abstract and
                 implement other methods still making the entire class abstract
                 which means you can't instantiate it. Interfaces require
                 all methods abstract and thus no implementation at all.
        \_ abstract modifies classes.  it's useful if you want to
           extend a superclass that does have some methods predefined,
           in addition to some undefined/abstract methods.
           whereas, interfaces cannot have any methods predefined.
           Or, you only partially implement an interface, leaving some
           methods undefined.
        \_ And now, finally, the right answer: in Java, you can not have
           multiple superclasses (abstract or not), but you can have
           several superinterfaces.  Interfaces are Java's way of doing
           multiple inheritance while avoiding the virtual base class
           mess of C++.  There are problems with Java's approach, but
           it works most of the time.
           \_ this is factually correct but is not the right answer because
              it does not address the question.  the other reponses do.  dork.
              \_ Well...  How do the previous responses address the difference
                 between abstract class foo { abstract int bar(); } and
                 interface foo { int bar(); } ?  Multiple inheritance
                 is the *only* thing that you can do with interfaces and
                 can't do with abstract classes -- therefore the only reason
                 "interface" is not redundant.  So either you have no clue or
                 you are a dork -- pick at least one.
              \_ Who cares?  It's a still-born language.
                \_right, with hundred of millions of dollars of engineering
                efforts using it. by comparison, you're stillborn.
                 \_ "Everyone else is using Win95 so it must be good!"
                        \_it's an argument proving it's not stillborn,
                        not that it's a good language. (which it is,
                        for some purposes)
        \_ why can't motd posters use intelligent, logical rhetoric instead of
           meaningless personal attacks? dumb fucks.
           \_ shut up, ilya.
2001/1/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20273 Activity:high
        \_ most of his complaints are not Java-specific.  He's a bigot.
        \_ I'm confused.  How did Salon end up with a good article online?
                \_ it's not so good.  The author is a M$ bigot and doesn't
                   address the large Linux solution space that uses Java
                   on the server side.  See also apache/tomcat.
                        \_ Do you have any clue who the author is?
                         Ever see a copy of O'Reilley's Unix Security Handbook?
                         Try doing a search for him on Amazon before labeling
                         him an ignorant M$ bigot.
        \_ I would believe the "compiled vs. interpreted" argument more
           if everyone agreed Perl was slow.
           \_ Perl is *dog* slow.  No one uses Perl for speed of execution.
              People use Perl for speed of development and _usually_ easily
           \_ What is TTM?
              modified code.  -Paid to Perl
           \_ Perl is painfully slow for any of the many complex tasks it
              wasn't designed for.  For string manipultion and the like,
              yes it is pretty damn blazing, but for, for instance, general
              math it sucks crustry ass.
              \_ Using perl will help you learn regex a lot easier.  But
                 once you know how regex works, it's easy to start using
                 regex package in c.
                 \_ of course that would be missing the point.  If what you
                    want to do is string manipulation use perl.  It will be
                    fast, the code will be quick to write and relativly bug
                    free in a much shorter time frame.  Regexp package or
                    not C is not a language thatm akes strings easy to
                    muck with.
        \_ Java sucks for clients. A large percentage of Java programmers
           already accept this (it sucks for so many reasons), but Java is
           the de-facto standard for eCommerce sites and many other server
           software companies because you gain in TTM and OO-ness. Also,
           it's good for things like build scripts that need to be cross
           platform (which is one of many uses of Java at Oracle).
           \_ What is TTM?  Never heard of it.  Is it important?
              \_ time to market.
           \_ Bullshit.  OO-ness is and of itself has no value.  Stop the hype!
              TTM?  Again, bullshit.  You want TTM?  Hire competent coders, not
              Java coders.  I'll take five experienced C coders over your five
              Java-is-OO-TTM-kewl-but-never-did-C kids for my project anyday.
              Out here in the world, we want things to work and hit milestones,
              we don't care that BH thinks OO is "way kewl!".
           \_ java as a language is GREAT for clients. The problem is that
              the runtimes are rather lacking. eg: no-one told these
              VM writers how to optimize for RAM usage.
                \_ maybe if there was more money in writing these VM's
                   they'd give a fuck.
                        \_ They should do it for the love of java.  Hey are
                           these VM's written in Java?
2001/1/6-16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:20253 Activity:nil
1/5     What's the JDK equivalent of chdir() ?
        \_ You can use JNDI, which has support for directory structures.
           May or may not be relevant.
        \_ None, not cross-platform. There are workarounds mostly app hacking
                or shell script hacking.
           \_ JNI call to a script that does chdir()?
              \_ Current directory is process specific, so if you spawn
                 another process with the script it won't help you at all.
                 You can call chdir() in JNI method -- it might work (dunno
                 if some Java libraries cache the value of the current
                 directory though).  Why do you need it, anyway?
        \_ Use File.isDirectory () tells you if the file is
           a directory. From there, you can do things like File.listFiles (),
           but make sure you do things like File.canRead () and so forth in
2001/1/6-16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20250 Activity:nil
1/5     Is it feasible to take the OS class below, a second grad-level class,
        and work at a startup?  Thanks.
        \_ Possible?  May be.  Should you do it?  No.
        \_ grad-level?  hardly.  this class is equivalent to CS 162 at
           Berkeley.  Note how the prof must spend 5 slides on talking about
           "academic honesty".  Great learning environment at UCLA I see.
           Go ahead and try it, half the students drop within a couple weeks.
        \_ Slide 5 reads "this is THE hardest class in the CS department".
           That tells a lot about their CS department.
        \_ No.  You are dumb.  You must do what ppl tell you to do.
2000/12/22-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Theory] UID:20156 Activity:moderate
12/21   Turns out that I got a lower grade than I expected. If enough people
        in the class ask for a recount (all the grades), will it help? Has it
        ever happened before?
        \_ This doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the Florida Supreme
           Court, but then again, that never stopped them before.  Go for it!
           Every grade must count!  Count all the grades!  Even the smudge you
           made on the paper in the place where the correct answer might have
           been implies you had "student-intent" to fill in the correct answer.
        \_ i had a teacher in hs who used to drink wine while he was grading
           and get really wasted.  sometimes he would only grade half the
           exam and you would get a 20 out of 100 or something, and demand
           a recount and get a 90.  suprisingly, he was a really good
           teacher otherwise.
        \_ Just don't let the professor stall till the grades are
           certified as final.
        \_ Grades may only be changed to correct errors, not because the
           \_ You can also file an appeal to a grade with some dept. at Cal.
              It doesn't only have to do with errors.
           professors grading scale was too high.  (However, if the prof
           consistently gives too many bad grades, he will get in trouble
           eventually - see the case of Prof. Wu & Math 1A/1B in the early
               \_ yah, that foolio got fucked up.  He's now been demoted
                  really awful in math.
           \_ are those errors as in "Ooops, I read that 3 as a 5 and
              misgraded you" or as in "Oh, I guess you answer is correct
              mine (prof's) is wrong"
           \_ I remember a horde of people dropping math 1a from wu in 91
           \_ I had Wu and I think I got a B. What was his deal?
           \- this is pretty funny ... --psb
              \_ excellent linkage, thanks psb. READ THIS people.
                 \_ it isn't *that* funny
           \_ Yeah, did something happen to Prof. "Hurricane" Wu?
                \_ As I recall, he was still allowed to teach but was no longer
                   allowed to have any part in the grading process including
                   setting the standards, creating the curve, grade appeals,
                   etc.  That was all given to his head TA.  Me?  I was there
                   for 10 minutes of lecture 1 and walked out.  I knew what I
                   was looking at.  This was while he was still allowed to
                   destroy hapless freshies.  Any survivors from Prof Shang's
                   math 1b class still around?  Oscillating circles.
2000/12/14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20099 Activity:low
12/13   What's parametric polymorphism and first class functions?
        \_ It's kinda like parasitic anthropomorphism, but less second class
2000/12/9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:20050 Activity:nil
12/7    Eh, why are some virtuals set to 0 (pure virtual) and some are not?
        \_ defining as virtual = 0  to create an interface definition or
        abstract class
           \_ Yes.  In particular, pure virtual functions are a signal to both
              the compiler and client code that this class is not expected
              to be instantiated, only inherited from.  It also requires any
              child classes to provide the method, but doesn't provide a
              default implementation.  There are many situations where this
              is exactly what you want.  You may not really get this until
              you're trying to make a framework of code that other people
              are expected to use, but not modify... -mogul
2000/12/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Functional] UID:20048 Activity:high
12/7    How many people cheated in 162 and got caught?
        \_ A little worried about our 162 grade, eh?
        \_ Man, people who get caught cheating just haven't gotten the art
           of it down. Should've been practicing and perfecting it in high
           school (not that you needed to cheat in HS)
                \_ I'm not sure how one would beat a histogram-cheat-detection
                   scheme.  Anyone have any ideas?  Other than rearranging
                   lots of code.  And if you do that, why not just do the
                   project?  --PeterM
                   \_ how does a histogram-cheat-detection scheme work?
                      \_ I'm not sure, exactly.  This is how I imagine it works:
                         do "wordcount" on all the symbols in the program.
                         Then you sort the symbols in order of number of
                         occurrences.  Plot a graph of this.  Programs
                         which have just had one symbol substituted for
                         another will have identical graphs.  --PeterM
                         \_ Hmm, that's easy to break.  Just introduce a lot
                            of redundant local variables with different names
                            in many routines.  Also, rename your local vars
                            "i" in all routines to "n" for some routine and
                            "x" for other routines.
                                \_ Uh huh.  What if I look at keywords too?
                                   A histogram of those.  Now you have to
                                   rearrange all the control structures too.
                                   This is beginning to sound like a lot of
                                   work: you'd have to do all this rearranging
                                   and substituting and test the result.
                                   \_ just make sure you send the code through
                                      a preprocessor first, to make sure the
                                      keywords aren't being substituted with
                            \_ This only breaks one histogram method.  There
                               are probably multiple ones used.
                      \_ Call graph topology comparison
                   \_ I suspect that any kind of polynomial time
                      code comparison program could be defeated
                      without much trouble.  I say this because of various
                      results in complexity theory about determining
                      equivalence.  For example, determining equivalence of
                      Turning Machines or Context Free Grammers is
                      undecidable.  Determining equivalence of regular
                      expressions (or finite automata) is PSPACE-complete.
                      (Recall that PSPACE is a harder class than NP).
                      Since programs running on regular computers
                      (not Turing Machines) are actually finite automata,
                      if you come up with an algorithm to efficiently compare
                      programs then you can solve a hell of a lot of other
                      more important problems.  In practice, you can probably
                      defeat most program comparison tools by writing an
                      obfuscator program.  One possible obfuscation
                      technique would be to merge and expand functions in a
                      random manner, and then randomly rename all symbols
                      including the function names.  Of course, cheating
                      is unethical, but the comparison problem is an
                      interesting thing to think about. -emin
                        \_ as mentioned below, one would probably focus
                           on heuristics that work on typical undergrad-
                           LOT of results out there, and even if you CAN cheat
                           a finite-dimensional analysis of infinite-dimensional
                           spectra, it's extremely difficult to do so if you
                           don't know which dimensions they are looking at.
                           While MOSS may not be all that great, it's
                           presumably non-trivial. Listen to peterm above, he's
                           basically right. Oh, and another thing -- the class
                           of all poly-time code comparisons is way too huge and
                           it should be relatively trivial to prove that not
                           only is it not "easy" to defeat a random sample of N
                           poly-time tests if you don't know which ones they are
                           using, but it's probably complete for BPEXP or
                           something equally intractable. -alexf
                           generated, human-readable code.  further, it is
                           likely one would need to convert to an abstract
                           normal-form that is easily compared to check
                           the N-way cheating problem efficiently.
                        \_ What 172 fails to mention is the practical
                           inapplicability of most of these results. There are a
                           LOT of heuristics out there, and even if you CAN
                           cheat a finite-dimensional analysis of
                           infinite-dimensional spectra, it's extremely
                           difficult to do so if you don't know which dimensions
                           they are looking at. While MOSS may not be all that
                           great, it's presumably non-trivial. Listen to peterm
                           above, he's basically right. Oh, and another thing --
                           the class of all poly-time code comparisons is way
                           too huge and it should be relatively trivial to prove
                           that not only is it not "easy" to defeat a random
                           sample of N poly-time tests if you don't know which
                           ones they are using, but it's probably complete for
                           BPEXP or something equally intractable. -alexf
                        \_ What emin means to say is, "The cheat program is a
                           crock of shit.  It's just a slightly improved
                           version of 'diff' so don't let it bug-a-boo you."
                           They've been talking about their mythical anti-cheat
                           program for years but I've turned in tons of out
                           right stolen code with no changes and got good
                           \_ you are a hollow man.  You also are lucky:
                              the methods described above are capable of
                              catching THAT.  Your empty mind will betray
                              you when you meet real challenges, and
                              your luck will fail.
                              \_ Luck?  I grabeed shit off the printer and out
                                 the trash, retyped, turned in.  A.  Did it
                                 plenty of times.  I could do the work, I just
                                 didn't feel like wasting my time on it.  I
                                 went drinking and got laid.  What were you
                                 doing in the lab all night?
                                 \_ Uh huh, and if you'd been caught, you'd
                                    be expelled and getting your
                                    degree from DeVry.  Luck.  And lazy-ass
                                         \_ Unfortunately, the way the
                                            work structure operates, you
                                            can cheat your way through
                                            the cs program at Berkeley
                                            and yet get by in the real
                                            world with at least a $50K
                                            salary or even better.  I opted
                                            to get out rather than live
                                            the lie.  Some people don't
                                            have those compunctions, but
                                            who knows?  Maybe they'll get
                                            what's coming to them, and maybe
                                            they won't.
                                    \_ People have gotten caught cheating
                                       but they didnt get expelled. it's
                                       usually a big empty threat.
                                       \_ depends on what they're caught
                                          cheating on, and how many past
                                          offenses they've had.
                                          \_ Yes, of course the worst
                                             offenders get booted. I did
                                             not say nobody gets expelled
                                             but usually it's a big
                                             empty threat. MOST cheaters
                                             do not even get an F for
                                             the course. This is far
                                             different from being exiled
                                             to DeVry for being caught.
                        \_ and would this obfuscator be able to produce
                           human-readable code?  if a person spent even a
                           small amount of time looking at it, wouldn't it be
                           pretty apparent that the variable and function
                           names make no sense? (I guess the obfuscator
                           could use a thesaurus and randomly pick synonyms,
                           but I doubt that'd produce reasonably
                           intelligible results either.)
                           \_ This requires that someone actually look at
                              the code.  Lazy readers and profs permitted the
                              cheater above to get by.  No cheat-detection
                              method has a chance of working if it is not
                              applied, the common case, I imagine. -PeterM
                              \_ obviously, but I meant that machine-obfuscated
                                 code should be pretty easy to recognize, even
                                 if a reader only spends a minute looking at
                                 it.  Is a minute too much to ask for?
                                 (rhetorical question; I know the answer is
2000/12/8 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages] UID:20040 Activity:very high
12/7    Eh, why are some virtuals set to 0 (pure virtual) and some are not?
        The following should look familiar to people who have been killed
        in the class:

#define Expression_SHARED_EXTRAS                \
virtual tree_node *createPARSETree();           \
virtual void scope_check();                     \
virtual void insert_type();                      \
virtual Symbol type_check();                      \

#define Case_EXTRAS                             \
virtual tree_node *createPARSETree() = 0;       \
virtual void scope_check() = 0;                 \
virtual void insert_type() = 0;                 \
virtual Symbol type_check() = 0;                  \
        \_ if someone can answer this, please do.  I want to know too.
        \_ defining as virtual = 0  to create an interface definition or
        abstract class
           \_ Yes.  In particular, pure virtual functions are a signal to both
              the compiler and client code that this class is not expected
              to be instantiated, only inherited from.  It also requires any
              child classes to provide the method, but doesn't provide a
              default implementation.  There are many situations where this
              is exactly what you want.  You may not really get this until
              you're trying to make a framework of code that other people
              are expected to use, but not modify... -mogul
2000/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:20036 Activity:moderate
12/7    Anyone know of free software that compare to CiscoWorks/View or
        HP OpenView (ns is the closest comparable that I've found so far).
        \_ What do you want to do?  ns is a network simulator for small
           toy networks.  HP OpenView is a very expensive "enterprise
           network management tool" that monitors actual, live networks.
           \_ I want the closest I can get to OpenView for free... ns
              is not adaquate.
              is not adaquate (it's just a simulator)
              \_ The WS_FTP people make something called WhatsUp Gold,
                 which you can set up to ping all your hosts and draw
                 a non-serious network topology.  It happens to come with
                 \_ Not exactly FREE...
                    \_ Oh wow.  Sorry.  It was $50 last I checked.  I bet
                       someone has a UNIX tool/script that does the same
                       for cheap.  Look up "ping" and "network management"
                       on tucows,, whatever.
                       \_ I just saw it for $695.
                          \_ Yeah, I know.  "Oh wow, sorry," was not sarcastic.
        \_ how about mrtg? It does some of the stuff that CiscoWorks 2k
           You should probably also try
           \_ Perfect, thanks.
           I worked on CiscoWorks for several years and unless you have
           a heavily routed cisco network most of the stuff is completely
           useless. Also, the UI is *really* heavy, its all slow swing
           based java (Management decided that fast and simple html wasn't
           "sexy" and "cool" enough for the enterprise).
           A while back I had a couple of cgi + a simple applet that let
           you run ping, traceroute, nslookup, nmap, dig and a few trivial
           protocol availability tests on one or more boxes. I can probably
           dig it up if that's all you want.
           Mail me for more info. ----ranga
           \_ rrd is a good replacement for mrtg (same guy wrote it).
                \_ I'm using rrd for stat collection and 'mon' for outage
                   reporting and paging. for 'mon'.
                   \_  for mon. -ERic
2000/11/30-12/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19960 Activity:high
11/30   In java, if int a=10 and:
        a) a = a + a++;
        b) a = a++ + a;
        The result of a and b SHOULD be the same, but are not. What's up?
           \_ Think about it, its not always going to be the same. Mostly
              likely it will be similar to the following:
              a) 1. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 1
                 2. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 2
                 3. increment value stored at addr of a
                 4. add reg1 and reg2 and store at addr of a
                 -> a is 20 (10 + 10)
              b) 1. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 1
                 2. increment value stored at addr of a
                 3. fetch value from addr of a and store in reg 2
                 4. add reg1 and re2 and store at addr of a
                 -> a is 21 (10 + 11)
        \_ The ++ is executed immediately after its original value is used?
           a) a = 10 + 10 (a now = 11, but very temporarily)
           b) a = 10 + 11
           \_ This is correct: Java (unlike C or C++) specifies that the
              increment happens immediately after its value is used.
        \_ Whoever writes code like this that relies on the implementation
           of execution order should be shot.
              \_ Um, there is only one possible execution order for the code
                 given above according to the rules of precedence.
                 \_ Oh yeah?  Just for "a = a + a++" alone I can get two
                    different results:
                    \_ Those results (and more) are both valid in C++, but
                       in Java only the second can happen.
                    1) Fetch value of "a" on the left of '+', 10.
                       Fetch value of "a++" on the right of '+', 10.
                       Do increment for "a++".  "a" becomes 11.
                       Write result of addition to "a".  "a" becomes 20.
                    2) Fetch value of "a" on the right of '+', 10.
                       Do increment for "a++".  "a" becomes 11.
                       Fetch value of "a" on the left of '+', 11.
                       Write results of addition to "a".  "a" becomes 21.
                       \_ I did not say that a and b are equivalent. I
                          said that there is only one possible order of
                          execution based on the rules of precedence.
                    \_ I guess this falls under the part of the ANSI C spec.
                       that says that the order of execution of subexpressions
                       in an expression is implementation defined. I suppose
                       the following would be possible as well:
                       incr a, fetch a, fetch a, store a -> a = 22
           \_ Oh, you can write code that is independent of execution order?
              You rule.
              \_ No, but I can write code that only relies on execution order
                 that is implementation-indepedent.  E.g. I can write C code
                 like "if (foo() || bar()) {......}" and rely on the fact
                 that foo() is executed before bar().  But I won't write code
                 like "baz(bar(), foo());" and assume that foo() is always
                 executed before bar().
        \_ Wanna really have fun? Run this in C, using native compiler,
           gcc, and others and you'll get a DIFFERENT result. TRY IT!!!
           \_ Okay, I don't see how a and b can ever be the same. You
              are asking for two different actions to be performed.
        \_ Ok, I just tried it on a sun box with gcc.  the answer is 11 in
           both cases.  How can this be?
2000/11/30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19956 Activity:moderate
11/30   How do you call C library functions from a Java program?  Do I
        need to clean out the bong reservoir?
        \_ You will need to build a JNI wrapper function for the libc
           call you want to make. JNI can be problematic, in that some
           advertised features don't work properly or consistently.
           Send me mail for more info. ----ranga
           \_ Thanks ranga.
2000/11/28-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:19928 Activity:high
11/27   Fuck Aiken, COOL, and semantic analysis!!!
        \_ Don't you mean "Fuck'ken COOL, semantic analysis!!!"?
        \_ Sorry to say but its your fault for taking it with him and
           not with Hilfinger and Java... that's what I did and the
           class ruled.
           \_ Frankly, "wrote a java compiler" looks infinitely better on
              a resume than "wrote a COOL compiler".
              \_ And you're only doing this major because it looks good on the
                 resume right?
                 \_ And you're not?  You bought in BH's whole thing about the
                 \_ And you're not?  You bought into BH's whole thing about the
                    intrinsic value of education for it's own sake and blah,
                    blah, blah?  The rest of us have bills to pay.
                 \_ If you're hiring java engineers, would you rather hire
                    someone who implemented a "java" compiler or a "COOL"
                    compiler?  Gotta take this class anyway, might as well
                    get the best buck for it.
        \_ Yeah, there were so many cases to cover with semantic
           analysis.  Ridiculous for a class project.
           \_ It was 10x worse with Hilfinger, so shut the fuck up.
                \_ But think about how much more you learned!  You don't need
                   a high GPA, just a sense of personal satisfaction!
                   \_ I did. And I got an A in the class. I wasn't complaining,
                      it wasn't that bad if you put in your 100 hours...
                      I was just noting that it was way more work than Aiken's
                      lame projects. Now Graham, that's a killer.
        \_ Life would be a lot easier if you figured out HOW to deal with
           all of the cases and ambiguity BEFORE writing any code.
        \_ Try Graham.
         \_ was I the only person who liked Graham? -aspo
            \_ yes.
            \_ In a biblical sense?
2000/11/24-28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19906 Activity:high
11/23   Ok, we know that to implement OOP methods you have these nifty
        virtual function tables which are assigned and thus  have supposedly
        independent namespaces.  How are protected variables implemented in
        Java or C+?
        \_ same was public members are implemented. protection comes in
           the early stages of compilation. by the time you get to code
           generation, that information is not relevant.
           \_ not strictly true for Java (access control is verified by JVM).
              But generally right -- access control is a compile-time issue.
              \_ typechecking by the JVM can be subverted by writing your
                 own classloader in bytecode; i'm just trying to figure out
                 why the "checks" don't work in java.
                 \_ Ok, I think I understand now.  "protected" in Java is
                    slightly differrent then protected in C++ -- it also
                    allows access by the classes from the same package
                    (like default access).  Why?  I don't know -- ask th
                    people who wrote the JLS.  But it makes for an annoying
                    interview question. ;)
                    \_ One that you'd get wrong.  You describe the default
                       access control, which does not have a keyword.
                       \_ Default access control in java is the same as that
                          specified by the 'protected' keyword.
                    As for runtime control -- it's disabled by default for
                    local classes, you need to run java -verify to explicitly
                    enable it.  I don't think writing your own classloader
                    will help subvert verification (otherwise it would be a
                    huge hole in the security model).
                    \_ Dude.  Neither C++ nor java have true 'security.'  In
                                correctly (use doPrivileged())
                       C++ you get around it by casting, in java you get around
                       it by using reflection.  At any rate, I haven't seen a
                       language that enforces variable privacy.
                        \_ Uh, reflection actually DOES enforce variable
                           privacy policy in 1.1 and I think in 1.2, which
                           is actually a royal PITA since you want that
                           interface to build development tools.
                        \_ Not in Java 1.2 and higher if you write your code
                                correctly (use doPrivileged() together with
                                a security policy)
2000/11/22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Jobs] UID:19884 Activity:high
11/21  What's the slaray and options range for a Java Developer nowadays?
       BS/EECS with 2+ years of experience, mostly not Java tho.
          \_ $83k
          \_ I'd swear <DEAD><DEAD> is run by some company trying to get people
             hired for peanuts.  I think their figures are bogus.  I believe
             they're the ones that take a countrywide average and then add
             some unknown figure for location.  It's all voodoo.
       \_ 80K - 100K.
2000/11/21 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19871 Activity:very high
11/21   All java class inherites from class *Object*, if I have three classes
        A, B, and C all have one same method showErr().  If I want to have a
        function that can call showErr() depending on the object that I passed
        in, eg.
                public void handleErr(Object o) {
        This code won't compile because Object doesn't have method showErr();
        Question is is this possible?  Type casting won't work because we don\
        don't the object type at compile time.  I don't think c/c++ can do th\
                          It works fine in C++: _/

                          template<typename T> void handleErr(T *object) {

                          You don't need to create an interface, and you don't
                          need to use run-time type checking; it just works.
        In Java, there's Object.getClass(), however I don't think it'll help
        here...Does anyone know if the above code can be tweaked to work?
        \_ use an interface
           \_ I guess you could have A, B & C implement the interface but
              you can be more hacker style with instanceof and casting.

              if (o instanceof A) {
              } else if (o instanceof B) {
              \_ That's not hacker style, that's tjb l4m3r-style.
                 Use reflection.  -pld
                     \_ is reflection available in 1.0 or 1.1?
                 \_ how dare you call me a l4m3r you lu53r. - tjb
                 \_ how dare you call me a l4m3r U 1u53r. - tjb
                 \_ dumbass, if it works, I should get 100% for it.
                    It's about getting it to work, not showing off your
                    "elite" style.  -tjb #1 fan
                    \_ whatever happened to the effort to get tjb
                       a soda account?
2000/11/21-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19870 Activity:nil
11/20   How do you checkout the version number of your Java class file?
        For example, whether it's version 45.121 or version 46.0? Thanks.
2000/11/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Recreation/House] UID:19858 Activity:nil
11/20   What is resin (relating to java servlets not plants)?  Is it a competitor
        of weblogic / Dynamo?  Is it good/bad? Inquiring minds want to know.
        \_ resin in the stuff left over in the bowl. If you are desperate
           you can sometimes get a hit off of it.
            \_ I know stoners aren't the brightest lot but which part of
                "not plants" did you not understand?
                \_ He's talking about hash, not plants.
        \_ crappy software, if you're going to use it for large scale
           production deployment, you might want to look elsewhere.
2000/11/14-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19768 Activity:moderate
        CMU Computer Science: Men outnumber women 10 to 1.  What's
        UCB's male/female CS ratio?
        \_ EECS figures: 83%/17% [accuracy to within +/-1%]
           My guess is L&S CS is similar or slightly higher. -alexf
           \_ i don't believe it.  we need a hand recount.
              \_ We need to admit more women, so engineers will
                 be able to get dates.
                 \_ hear, hear!
                 \_ Yes, and there will be more disk space with less porn
                    in their home directory.
                \_ didn't the article warn the woman to get ready for
                   dorky guys chasing the potential student around?
2000/11/4-5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19645 Activity:high
11/4    I need a program which will "read" a serial port and output which
        pins are jumped (connected).  Any pointers?  If i have to program
        it myself (not a programer but i'll manage) what is a good (easy
        more important than robust) language to learn - and what is a good
        reference to start with - for this kind of a project?
        \_ Microsoft DDK
        \_ Chances are you want to use the parallel, not serial, port.
           What is the OS you're gonna use?  What are you trying to accomplish?
        \_ Java Communications API:
           \_ I've used this. It's really straightforward... It works fine
              under Windows and Solaris. Haven't used the Linux version
              (written by a 3rd party, not Sun)
        \_ Assembly.  Get right to the hardware.  Should be lots of stuff on
           the net to deal with ports already written for you.
           \_ The original poster is "not a programmer".  Writing stuff
              \_ kcik the poster in the nuts.
              at the device level is hard, esp. in assembly.  My guess
              is that whatever he/she is trying to do is redundant, but
              more information is necessary in any case.
              \_ yeah, but you dont really have to *learn* assembly
                 to do this in assembly.  if you find the right files on the
                 net, which is not hard to do, they will tell you how
                 to use the assembly commands "in" and "out" in a C program.
                 you just put these in a function, and do the rest in C.
              \_ kick the poster in the nuts.  [typo fixed.  -motd typo god]
                 it's really not bad.  i did it and i am also not a programmer.
                 \_ Thanks for making my point better than me.  (no sarcasm)
                        -original person who suggested assembly
                 \_ That's not what I would call "assembly programming".
                    Using in and out (which are often available as standard
                    functions, and are unavodable when dealing with raw
                    hardware) is different from writing the driver in
                    assembly (which is almost never necessary).
                    \_ Speaking of in and out, did you try kicking it
                       in the nuts?
2000/10/30-31 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Startup] UID:19604 Activity:high 53%like:18800 53%like:19149 50%like:19187 54%like:19369 50%like:19457
10/30   Get a Job! /csua/pub/jobs/Epicentric
        \_ I interviewed there about a year ago.  Pre-IPO?  No kidding?  They
            had planned to IPO this last summer or spring.  Salaries?  I was
            already getting _50%_ _more_ at my current company!  They were
            not willing to negotiate in any serious way.  They had no clue why
            they chose the OS's they were using (as a sysadmin this matters to
            me) and had this OO Java religion to such an extreme degree they
            wanted me to learn java and do all my sysadmin coding in Java,
            not Perl or some shell.  Ridiculous.  And oh yeah, check out the
            business model....  Kids, do *not* join companies like this.  If
            you're already there do yourself a favor and look around.  _Ask
            *lots* of questions_!!!  Epicentric: lame company.
            \_ Yeah, they're java nazis. Their entire product is jsp-based.
2000/10/27-28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:19586 Activity:insanely high
10/27   I have seen lots of cheating while in Berkeley.  Do any of you cheat?
        If so, how, why do you did it, and do you think it is justified?
        \_ in four years as a double major i never cheated.  no one i know
           in math or physics ever cheated.  cheating is for people in
           college for the degree only.
           \_ I.e. Business, Econ, IEOR
        \_ i sifted through garbage bins for a 61b project...and succeeded.
           it saved my ass b/c without it, I wouldn't have passed
           with the c+ i got from dear old clancy.  I left cs immediately
           after that for my own good.  I have no compunctions about this
           because there was no fucking way I was going to get an F or
           D and have to go through the whole debacle again.  That was the
           one and only time I did and I will forever relieved that I did.
           \_ How the hell can you get anything but an A/A+ in the class?
        \_ Cheating is so easy. Look over someone's shoulders during an
           exam.  Sit in a corner where you're least likely to be noticed
           reading a cheatsheet under your calculator.  Sift thru the
           recycle bins for discarded printouts of code.  Share.
           \_ Actually, I've seen the guys with 48gs just scan the
              relavent info into their computers and upload it to
              their calc. Alas, if only we were all rich...
                \_ Duh.  Borrow one, stupid.  Don't bitch that you're poor and
                   at some odd disadvantage to "those evil white rich guys!"
                                                \_ yeah! I hate those guys!!
                                                   usually a frat boy, too,
                                                   like George Bush
                                                   \_ At least GB didn't flunk
                                                      out like AG did.  Twice.
                \_ Well, I never had to resort to such means and I still
                   did okay (ave. GPA overall, above average upper div),
                   my lament simply was that if we were all rich we could
                   have a bunch of toys to play with instead of studying.
                   I have never envied rich people, in fact I feel sorry
                   for people who have to rely on wealth to get them
                   through life, I will always have an advantage over them.
                   \_ Keep telling yourself that.
        \_ Yeah, just become a TA and your admiring female students will love
           to shake you down for a good grade.  Don't tell your SO.
           \_ This doesn't work. I was a TA and the female students never
              offered me anything to improve their grades. Not even the
              ugly ones. And I would have gone for the ugly ones.
        \_ I never cheated in CS.  Which is wise since Aiken has that
           anti-cheat code-checking program.
                \_ um, it doesn't work all that well :) It's a device of
                   intimidation but nothing else. I got away in 3 of my
                   upper div classes including his.
        \_ It depends on what the definition of 'is' is.
        \_ i cheated on some math tests because they didn't allow us cheat
           sheets and i thought it was stupid to spend my time memorizing
           a list of equations.
        \_ I remember this music appreciation class (forgot the number).
           A friend of mine took it with me because it's supposed to be an easy
           class, but he found out that he was really bad at it (recognizing
           tunes and such), so he asked me to help him cheat during the
           multiple choice final.
           \_ Thanks for coming out here with your confession.
              You got somewhere to go now.  Now let me show you the shape of
              my heart.
        \_ Thanks for all the great answers everybody. --Aiken
           \_ soda% finger aiken
              finger: aiken: no such user
              \_ Prof. Aiken is a 3133T H@X0R! He's posting via his
                 R00T SH311! He's the one who OWNZ M$!
                 \_ My LR(k) is bigger than your LALR(1)        -aiken
                 \_ I doubt that.
                    \_ He's sooo 3133T that he seems to be a luser.
                       \_ Is that like, yermom is so slutty that she's
                          actually a real hottie?
                          \_ No its not like a unsigned wrapping around.
                             Ever read the BUFH chronicles? He's sooo
                             3133T that the BOFH can't tell him from a
2000/10/26-27 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19571 Activity:nil
10/25   I'm trying to write a basic socket based server in Java.  What is
        the preferred Java method to broadcast over a given subnet? (if it
        \_ multicast is the only "socket" way that I can think of. It
           seems like looking at the bootp source code (axed below) is also
           a good idea. If it's ethernet, send a broadcast ethernet packet
           (which is what bootp/dhcp do).
           If multicast is available, use
           Also, java fakes broadcast if you send the datagram to
           \_ How does java fake broadcasts?
              \_ I don't know, I read it at
2000/10/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19554 Activity:nil
10/23   Any online java tutorials?
        \_ many...
        \_ good online book at
           \_ This book is absolutely awful. I wonder if Mr. Eckel
              can even write a decent sized java program.
2000/10/21-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19547 Activity:nil
10/20   recs for good java books for beginners?  thanks.
        \_ _Core Java 2 : Volume 1 Fundamentals_ by Cay S. Horstmann & Gary
           Cornel. Then study the Java 2 SDK documentation, which is as
           beautiful as it is useful.
        \_ Java in a Nutshell.  For the C-fluent, Java beginner.
        \_ Gore Java (bet you didn't know he invented that too)
           \_ figures.  No wonder everything inherits from a central object.
        \_ Java for Bush (for the less inclined folks)
2000/10/21-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:19546 Activity:kinda low
10/20   Used Emacs since 92 and I will die by it. However I've been having
        CDE (common development environment) envy lately. I really want to
        have the ability to fill in method names, do parameter check, and
        most importantly, click on a class name in a *.java file which will
        jump directly to JavaDoc. Is there a fancy elisp that will do all
        of the above? JDeveloper and J++ have all of the above long time ago.
        \_ hi partha
        \_ If you need these features, your fu is weak.
           \_ If you use Java, your fu is weak to begin with.
              \_ Untrue. It takes massive fu to write fast usable java
                 code. Also anything with JNI requires fu as do dynamic
                 class loading in a secured environment (read signed
              \_ If you found need to reply to this comment, this suggests
                 in itself that your fu is weak.  As for my reply, this is
                 a meta-reply, so my fu is weak only in a meta-sense.
2000/10/19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19520 Activity:high
10/18   In Java, if something is not static, what is it called? Dynamic?
        \_ Depends on the something.
        \_ non-static
        \- instance
2000/10/14-16 [Computer/Companies/Ebay, Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Recreation/Humor] UID:19481 Activity:nil
10/13   I remeber seeing a saved page somwehere of a class of first
        graders being sold on eBay. It was kind of sick yet funny.
        Anyone have a link? This reminded me of it:
2000/10/10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:19454 Activity:nil
10/9   from: http://www.OCF.Berkeley.EDU/~summerm/keepOut/resume.html

CS 188: Creating Intelligent Agents That Could Get a Better Grade in this Class
        Than You Will
CS 174: How to Win at Blackjack Even if You Left Your Towel in Your Motel Room
CS 170: How to Do Just About Anything if You Have a Computer the Size of a
        Small Planet (or the Most Advanced Graphics Calculator on the Market)
CS 164: Writing Compilers That Can Change Your Grade for You (note: everyone
        who finished the project got an A in the class)
Math 241: Derivating W.R.T. Inspector Gadget, If You Please
Math 55: You. Me. Gauss. The connection.
Math 54: The Cauchy-Schwarz Inequality Applied to Non-Euclidean Vectorspaces.
Peace and Conflict Studies 222:
         The Lighter Side of Overpopulation, Famine, Ecological Disaster, Ethnic
         Hatred, Plague, and Poverty
Political Science 2: Political Diary, An Episode by Episode Account
2000/10/10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19453 Activity:nil
10/9    Is it just me, or it seems like C++/Java is full of the following?
        Don't laugh. I see this FREQUENTLY. Yeah, very OO.

        class foo {
                int myvar;
                getMyvar() {return myvar;}
                setMyVar(int i) {myvar = i;}

        \= At least your data is encapsulated. Combine encapsulation
           with a pattern and you will be a 311T3 00 D00D! You can
           hang with Douglas Schmidt.
        \_ Use C#.  It has virtual fields.
        \_ I'm not laughing.  This is normal.
        \_ Of course you see it frequently, it's classic OO design.  You now
           have only one place to update instead of hundreds if you need to
           change the way the variable is set (introduce range checks, change
           variable name/type, etc.).
2000/10/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19451 Activity:insanely high
10/9    Informal poll-- CS class that you got the worst grade in (use dot):
        003 . \_class was too stupid to waste the hour on the final (oops)
        60a/61a . (I was in high school and MUDding-- Oops)
        61B .
        150 ...
        162 ...
        164 .....
               \_ killed by COOL, Aiken, and MOSS
        170 .. (yeah, embarrassing, but i can't cut cakes!)
        174 .
        182 .
            \_ fuck cogsci (took it before they added CS projects)
        264 . Grade of D, impressive for a grad class.   -blojo
                          \_ no it's not
                \_ what happened?
        \_ i think this statistic is useless. you also need to know how many
           people took each class. 186 might have no dots because noone took
        264 . Grade of D, impressive for a grad class.   -blojo
           \_ look at current enrollment (on; the numbers
              have changed over the years, but the ratios are still
              reasonably similar
                \_ that doesn't tell you how many motd geeks took it.  only
                   no-life dweebs like achoi and cmlee took 186.  -tom
                        \_ Hey!  I took 186!  Oh wait, I have no life either.
2000/10/5-6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19414 Activity:nil
10/4    What's the difference between a token and a lexeme? I just don't
        see any. A token is defined with regular expression. If "while" and
        "for" are tokens for C/Java, why are they also lexemes? What about
        identifiers (variable, constants)? Aren't they BOTH token and lexeme?
        How come Aiken makes a distinction?
        \_ If your symbol is the field "numPoints", the the token is an
           Identifier and the lexeme is the string "numPoints".  For "123"
           the token is Integer and the lexeme is the value "123". In
           short, token = type, lexeme = value.  If you call "if" a token,
           then the lexeme is redundant because the lexeme is just the
           name of the token.  But if you lump if, while, else, etc. into
           the Keyword token (or token class, if you prefer), then the
           lexeme becomes relevant.
2000/10/4-5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/JavaScript] UID:19410 Activity:very high
10-04   is it possible to learn javascript without knowing java?
        if so, any recommended books?  thanks.
        \_ Yes. Try JavaScript HandBook. BTW, javascript and java
           are not related, except that the both have the string java
           in them.
           \_ javascript syntax is loosly
              \_ ......?
        \_ JavaScript = LiveScript, or something equally dumb, originally.
           check first, then O'Reilly's 1000-pg. DHTML
        \_ Aren't some of the JavaScript features implemented underneath
           with Java in the browser? This would shed some light onto
           Netscape's naming decision... and also why I get what seem like
           applet errors sometimes from what I'm pretty sure is Java*Script*.
           \_ AFAIR, the only thing that they share is the security stuff.
2000/8/31 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19138 Activity:high
8/31    What is the equivalent of java's "final" keyword in C++?
        \_ java's final keyword has several uses in java. which one
           aare you talking aobut?
        \_ C++ (Purely Virtual Method)  Java (Abstract Identifier)
           C++ (Virtual IDentifier)     Java (Default)
           C++ (can't be overrideen)    Java (Final Identifier)
                (by default)
        \_ If you are using 'final' in a variable declaration, then the
           equivalent C++ keyword is 'const.'
           If you are using 'final' in a class declaration, then there is
           no C++ syntax that will do what you want.
2000/8/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19082 Activity:nil
8/23    Where can I get a list of JDK comparisons? I'd like to get a
        benchmark on Sun's JDK 1.2.2, IBM's JDK, Kaffe, etc. Thanks!
2000/8/23-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19075 Activity:kinda low
8.23    Ok, my search fu is kinda weak.  I'm looking for info on a prof
        who taught at caltech in 86.  John Frederick Benton, Ph.D History.
        anyone got any ideas?  Web searches and Melvyl and amazon searches
        turn up zilch, and i find it kinda hard to believe that a history
        prof never wrote any papers or books.
          \_ thanks.  you rule.
        \_ He's dead, Jim.
        \_ In 1986/87 Benton taught a 9 unit CIT class called "psychohistory"
           which was a trace of how psychological events affected history.
        \_ use the caltech web site to find other history profs that have
           been on the facutly for over 20 years and email them about
           him explaingin you situation.  i'm sure their history department is
           small enough that they all know eachother.
           \_ History DEPARTMENT?! This is Caltech you're talking about. All they
              have is a Humanities & Social Sciences Dept. There may be like 3-8
              profs max doing history at any point in time.
        \_ The clock tower thing has been done.
2000/8/22-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Functional] UID:19058 Activity:high 62%like:19071
8/21    Wanna teach programming language to my cousin (10 year old). Should
        I teach LISP or Java first? Also, is it advisable to teach more than
        one language at a time?
        \_  -mogul
        \_ Get a Mac, have 'em try HyperCard. When they get bored with that,
           Pascal. I tried this, and it was fun -brg
           \_ I would say the cool stuff for 10 yr olds is Perl cgi. They
              can write stuff that other people can look at over the web.
                \_ I concur.  -tom
                   \_ i VIOLENTLY DISAGREE. There is enoguh disgusting
                      perl out there, without another 10yearold with
                      no programming experience adding to the mess.
                      Teach them how to program PROPERLY first.
                      \_ i VIOLENTLY ABSTAIN.
                      \_ Teach a 10 yr old to enjoy programming and
                         they will learn good programming over the
                         course of a career.
                         \_ Which is why there's so much crap code out there
                            right now.  No.  You're wrong.  Programming
                            properly requires discipline and being told how.
                            You don't magically become good at something just
                            because you like it and do it for money.
              \_ Don't confuse what's "formally" there with what the language was
                 built for. If you think the CLOS is intuitive to the average
                 10-year-old (relative to Java, that is), you need serious help.
                 All alternatives to CLOS that I've seen are no better. Think
                            \_ I did it for the sex appeal, and have since
                               become a great programmer. (Only the elegance
                               of my code can now approach my attractiveness.)
           \_ I agree with brg on this one.  A great many of the people I
              know that have a love of computer science started with HyperCard.
              I've also seen a correlation between having clue now, and using
              HyperCard when young.  Obviously I'm not implying that HyperCard
              bestows clue and a love of CS.  More likely, it offers a fun
              love of computer science as a discipline
              way for people to learn a programming mindset. -dans
                 \_ Interesting observation, I started with hypercard and
                    I love CS. Before HC I had done logo and basic though.
                    The other possibilitiy is that I decided on CS since
                    my mom was CS also.
              \_ Shut up, dans.  You are an idiot.  Go away.  You are not
                 qualified to give advise on sneezing, let alone computer
                 \_ Sod off.  And sign yer posts. -dans
        \_ learn a programming mindset in a fun
           love of computer science as a discipline [motd formatting god]
        \_ Python or pascal.
           \_ Lemme explain about python:  python is scripting
              (immediate feedback, no compile) very clean of syntax,
              and very powerful.  Its only annoyance is that it requires
              proper whitespacing, but it's good to learn proper indenting in
              a first language anyway.  If you don't know python, learn it
              THEN teach it to your cousin.
              \_ Python is Perl's poor cousin. Python is still longing
                 to be what Perl was back in version 3.0
                 \_ But it does *look* nicer on a printed page.  :-)
        \_ korn shell
           I'm NOT KIDDING!!! It's simple to start, but has a LOT of
           features. Functions, vars, lots of optional odd tricks.
           \_ David Korn is a prick, I refuse to use his shell. Either
              Bourne shell or BASH.
              \_ so is RMS. So do you refuse to use gcc, emacs, or any
                 other of his stuff?
                 \_ RMS isn't as much of a prick as DK. DK's great
                    contribution was /bin/ksh and he goes around
                    like he invented computing (just like Al Bore
                    invented the internet). Without K&R,SRB,KT,BJ
                    DK wouldn't have amounted to a hill of beans.
                    The other thing is that he's also in bed with
                        \_ So what?  If the technology is good, use it.  Do
                           you not surf websites backed by Oracle because Larry
                           Ellison is a prick too?  You're being an idiot.
                           \_ I don't use ksh mostly because there are just
                              so many other better alternatives. The fact
                              that DK is a prick doesn't make me want to
                              use it either.
                              \_ name 3, "so many others".
                                 Perl is great if you want to
                                 access a database or do network stuff,
                                 but otherwise it's mostly overkill.
                                 \_ Bourne Shell, BASH, Perl, Awk, Sed,
                                    C, C++, TCL/TK, Java, Fortran, PL/1,
                                    ALGOL, Basic, even DOSHELL! Ksh is
                                    just a copy of SRB and BJ's work.
        \_ Java is probably better; LISP may be best for a CS student to start
           from, but it doesn't yield "pretty" results immediately. OOP has
           a more tangible link to the real world (ie "objects and their
           interaction"). More than one language at a time should be absolutely
           out of the question. You will confuse the fuck out him/her.
           \_ LISP is object oriented, and in fact had objects before Java.
              At any rate, most modern languages provide a way to program with
              objects or object like entities (with the only 2 notable
              exceptions being C, which is too low level to have objects as
              anything else but gobs of memory, and prolog, which can be
              used to implement any object system of your choice trivially).
              \_ Don't confuse what's "formally" there with what the language
                 was built for. If you think the CLOS is intuitive to the
                 average 10-year-old (relative to Java, that is), you need
                 serious help.  All alternatives to CLOS that I've seen are
                 no better. Think Intuitiveness.
                 \_ C-like syntax isn't intuitive.  In actuality, scheme's
                    syntax is far cleaner, and CLOS is a far better object
                    system than java's if for no other reason than because
                    classes are first class objects themselves.  Want to teach
                    java's alternative (reflection) to a newbie?  And drop this
                    lecturing tone, you haven't gotten enough clue to assume it
                    \_ Listen buddy. I've probably taught Java to more
                       10-year-olds than you've met in your life. And I've
                       tried the alternatives. If you don't believe what I am
                       saying, go find a sample of a few 10-year-olds and see
                       how you fare with your lisp fantasies. I have the utmost
                       respect for {lisp,scheme,yermom}, but none of them are
                       suitable for 10-year-olds.
                       \_ Which alternatives have you tried?  See, friend,
                          you are something people in the know like to call
                          'Java-drone.'  Would you like to guess why?
                          \_ Read first before spewing garbage. I don't
                             endorse Java as The Best And Last Real Programming
                             Language. As a matter of fact, I think little to
                             none commercial-grade code should be in Java.
                             Getting 10-year-olds interested is an entirely
                             different story. As for the alternatives --
                             I've tried Scheme, C, BASIC several times, and
                             perl, lisp, linkway (bad hypercard clone),
                             turing, and some obscure ancient shit you've
                             never heard of a couple of times
              \_ What about my favorite language, assembly? *ducks*
                 \_ i learned to program in 6502 assembler when i was 10.
                    \_ m68k assembler @ age 12.
                        \_ 4004 at age 17.
                           \_ eniac circuit codes at age 5
                              \_ babbage gears @ age 4
                                 \_ trained the wet-nurse @ age 6 mos.
        \_ I think alot of people in our CS dept (well... at least Harvey
           and Clancy) would say to teach Logo with the intention of quickly
           transitioning to something more practical. I think Java would be
           a good start in that it is really powerful with all the hard stuff
           abstracted away... and thus can yield some rewarding results for
           a 10-year-old failry quickly.
           \_ If you want to hook someone on programming, you really cant
              beat "Hey, I make make funny colored shapes in 30 seconds".
              Logo rules for bringing them in.
              (then when they're hooked, we move them up to the heavier
               stuff. And THEN we start ch... Ummmm.. forget that last bit)
        \_ I'd suggest teaching Smalltalk. That's what it was made for,
           after all.
                \_ So what?  Doesn't mean it's any good for that.
                   \_ But it actually was a good teaching language. Supposedly
                      they were getting 9-12 year olds programming things like
                      paint programs pretty quickly with Smalltalk.
        \_ The first language I learned to program in was BASIC.  Even
           though I liked programming, BASIC was annoying because there
           were lots of strange syntax rules you had to remember.  Based
           on this experience I would recommend starting with a language
           that has a simple, clean, and consistent syntax.  LISP and Tcl
           are 2 good examples.  I've never used python, but I suspect that
           the idea of using white space to indicate scope is the kind of
           thing that would scar a young programmer for life.  As for C, C++
           and Java, all I can say is that if decent programmers find things
           like x <<= y ^ *x++ && 0x32 hard to undrstand, think how a kid
           would feel.  Good luck, and let us know how things go.  -emin
           \_ if you code like that that's YER fucking problem
2000/8/19-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19045 Activity:nil 70%like:19029
8/17    By default, does JDK1.2.2 run w/ JIT, or there is a flag to give?
        \_-Djava.compiler=shujit        this is an example.
        \_ No jit by default on most platforms. Notable exception WinBlows.
                \_ BUZZ wrong.  Solaris jdk1.2.2 and up runs with a JIT
                   by default.  make the http://java.compiler env var = NONE if
                   you want to turn it off for debuggin purposes.  And JDK 1.3
                   uses "HotSpot" which is a faster kind of JIT.
                \_ Most of the command line options are documented. HotSpot
                is available with 1.2.* JDKs also. The 1.3 one is HotSpot 2
                is available with 1.2.* JDKs also. the 1.3 one is HotSpot 2
                out on Windoze, beta on Solaris. I find HS 2 beta to be much
                better than the "stable" HS 1. HS is not a JIT and is not
                necesserily faster than a JIT. I'd say if you don't know
                exactly what you are doing or don't spend most of your time
                in Sun's libraries it will kill your performance. -muchandr
2000/8/18-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Tcl] UID:19032 Activity:moderate
        \_ They pay you $100k straight out of school to write Tcl server code.
           No thanks.
           \_ Hell yeah man, Tcl is so lame, I wouldn't even code that shit if
              someone paid me 300K !! F those lusers DOOD!
              \_ If you want to make $100k+, Tcl isn't the way to go. Just
                 start doing Java consulting at $75+/hr straight out of school.
                 \_ I don't know... I like working there. It is much better
                    than Vignette or one of the *ients. I started there
                    straight out of school and am in the group that is
                    porting the ACS (ArsDigita Community System) to Java.
                    What's your point? That making 100K is money-grubbing
                    and if you want to do it, you might as well totally
                    sell-out and do Java consulting?
                                                   -- Ars Digita employee
                \_ But don't you also have to put up with Phil's ego?
2000/8/18-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19029 Activity:kinda low 70%like:19045
8/17    By default, does JDK1.2.2 run w/ JIT, or there is a flag to give?
        Why did this message get deleted yesterday? I didn't see any reply.
        \_-Djava.compiler=shujit        this is an example.
        \_ No jit by default on most platforms. Notable exception WinBlows.
                \_ BUZZ wrong.  Solaris jdk1.2.2 and up runs with a JIT
                   by default.  make the http://java.compiler env var = NONE if
                   you want to turn it off for debuggin purposes.  And JDK 1.3
                   uses "HotSpot" which is a faster kind of JIT.
                \_ Most of the command line options are documented. HotSpot
                is available with 1.2.* JDKs also. The 1.3 one is HotSpot 2
                out on Windoze, beta on Solaris. I find HS 2 beta to be much
                better than the "stable" HS 1. HS is not a JIT and is not
                necesserily faster than a JIT. I'd say if you don't know
                exactly what you are doing or don't spend most of your time
                in Sun's libraries it will kill your performance. -muchandr
2000/8/16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19010 Activity:kinda low
8/16    Does JDK1.2.1p and 1.2.2 by default have JIT?
        \_ depends which platform you're talking about
2000/8/7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18898 Activity:nil
8.7 - and you thought
        java was useless - paolo
2000/7/31-8/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18830 Activity:moderate
7/31    What is the correct plugin application for running java from
        Navigator on a Solaris box?  Is it /usr/bin/java, or /usr/bin/java
        -jar %1, a-la-windows style?  Or is it something else altogether?
        \_ someting else altogether. see ~/.netscape/plugins
           \_ Ok, checked in my ~/.netscape.  I only have a plugin-list
              and the only text in there is "PluginList Version 1".  Is
              there a URL that tells you how to configure plugins in
        \_ Java is builtin to netscape, you shouldn't need a plugin.
                \_ All the bugs are pre-included now.  Just use it.
2000/6/22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18523 Activity:nil
6/23    Why doesn't berkeley have a class A network? (geek question)
          -csua geek
        \_ Because we don't rule as much as MIT?
        \_ Because we don't need one and they're reserved for places that do?
           (Not that Class A/B/C mean much in these days of classless routing)
           \_ Don't inferior schools like UCLA, Michigan State, and
              that farm school down there have one?
           \_ Because we never believed in wasting IP space?
        \_ We used to, but those with Class A's were asked to evaluate
           their need for one and UCB decided they didnt need a full A
2000/6/19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Theory] UID:18493 Activity:nil
6/18  What's the course number of the linear algebra class you need
      for cs 180 (the computer graphics class)?  How hard is it
      to understand...old eecs alumni tell me it was quite nasty?
          -- no clue
      \_ Probably Math 54.  It's fairly easy if you pay any attention at
         all (unlike me).  Take.. I think.. Borchards if you can.  He gives
         _really_ easy tests.  --dbushong
         \_ i thought math 50a was pretty hard. i don't think they explained
            the concepts well at all. it wasn't until 50b that i started
            understanding what was going on.
2000/6/15-16 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18481 Activity:moderate
6/15    About how long will it take for someone who has several years
        experience with C/C++ to be decently proficient in Java?
        \_ syntax, 10 minutes, methodology, 3 months
           \_ methodology will take half that long if you're actually using
              Java full time [ie 8 hrs/day]
                \_ methodology: 10 minutes if you're not a goomba.
                        \_ I believe it takes a bit more time with
                           the GUI portions of Java.
                 \_ although 3 months is way too long if you use c++ as
                    anything more than c with classes you will find yourself
                    doing stupid tihngs in java for a while just because not
                    all the same tricks work.
2000/6/13-14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18456 Activity:nil
6/13    Why does java applets take such a long time to load.  Is there
        anyway to speed it up?
        \_ Remote java applets have to come over the net.  Local ones would
           be slow if your hardware sucks or your app is some huge bloated
           MS-ish monster.
           \_ Netscape's early attempts at the JVM were a little gimpy.  I
              recommend getting the new one or installing Java Plug-in and
              ripping out the VM inside...
2000/5/12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18247 Activity:nil
5/11    how can i find implementors of a Java interface?
        ie something like: java.util.Collection.class.getImplementors()
        i know that JavaDoc does it.
2000/5/9-10 [Recreation/Dating, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18207 Activity:insanely high
5/8     I'm bored, anyone have good interview questions to ask?
        \_ if (a ^ 2 + b ^ 2) / (1 + a * b) = n, where n is an integer, then
           there exists an integer m, such that m ^ 2 = n.  Prove.  -- ilyas
           \_ n = 1.  m = 1.  a = 1.  b = 1.
        \_ "Do you eat pussy?"
        \_ "So tell me about yourself."
        \_ "So, tell me your greatest strength and your greatest weakness."
           I love that one.  That's the point where I know I'm interviewing
           at the wrong place and try to get out ASAP without being an
           \_ /tmp/13coins. -- ilyas
              \_ Quit wasting VM. Put this in /csua/tmp
           asshole to anyone.
           \_ you need to know if you are looking for a heavier one or
              a lighter one.
           \_ What exactly do you do or say to get out ASAP without being an
           asshole to anyone?
           \_ Don't ask any serious questions about the company, maybe blow
              off the tour by saying you'll have more time on the second
              interview, stuff like that.  Shorten it but don't outright flee.
              The industry is both big and small.  Never know when you'll see
              those same people again and you can laugh with them about how
              bad that company was (assuming they've quit by that point too).
        \_ Let's say you have 13 billiard balls.  One of them is slightly
           heavier, or slightly lighter, than the other 12.  You have a two-
           pan scale.  How can you tell, in three weighings, which ball is
           the defective ball?
           \_ This puzzle appeared in the adventure game "Spellcaster",
              although I believe only 12 objects were involved.
           \_ /csua/tmp/13coins. -- ilyas
           \_ Throw the billiard balls at the interviewer's head.  It's
              \_ How to F everybody and still come out clean?
              likely that the defective one will leave a less massive
              bloody headwound than the other 12.  When you suspect, based
              on the reduced amount of bloody skull splinters and gore, that
              you have just thrown the defective one, un-wedge it from the
              interviewer's cranium and weigh it.  With a bit of attention,
              you should be able to guess it in 2 tries max.  -John
           \_ 1. Weigh six on six.  If it is balanced, then the 13th ball
                 not weighed is the one.
              \_ Uh ... yes, that's right.  Please continue.
           \_ You need to know if you are looking for a heavier one or a
              lighter one.
              \_ Wrong.  Please try again.
                \_ No you are wrong.  Assuming it isn't #13 when you weigh
                   those last two out of three you have a 2/3rds chance of
                   having the bad one on the scale.  In that case you need
                   to know if the bad one is heavier or lighter.
                   \_ Please talk to ilyas.  Or, ilyas, please talk.
                      \_ The man can read as well as you or I, he is just
                         trolling. -- ilyas
           \_ Isn't this a pretty hard problem for an interview?  I know
              that at least the 12 billiard ball problem requires much
              more organization and lucidity of thought that a 20 minute
              interview would allow.
              \_ Yes.  I thought someone was bored.
        \_ muchandr first told me this one, he said this was asked at an
           investment bank interview.  In this puzzle, we have two men, two
           women, and two condoms, in a room.  The puzzle is to figure out a
           way for each man to have sex with each woman in such a way that
           no transfer of fluids between any two parties takes place. -- ilyas
           \_ I guess this is an appropriate question for investment bankers?
                \_ Yup.  Ever seen those hot little asian business chicks at
                   on-campus interview day in their mini-mini fuck-me outfits?
                   \_ Yeah, but do you ever get to work with/on them if you
                      join a IB?
                        \_ If they believe you can advance their career in
                           some way, yes.
                   \_ The hottest women worked for JP Morgan. None were
                      Asian, but so what? It almost makes one wonder what
                      the requirements are to be a "recruiter" there.
                      They must want recruits to believe they *won't* be
                      working with 55 year old men who wear only navy blue
                      suits and smell like Old Spice. --dim
           \_ Men: A,B. Women: a,b. Condoms: 1,2. Solution: (4 steps)
                1: A->1->2->a
                2: A->1->b
                3: B->2->a
                4: B->2->1->b
             ... and they told us to never double up condoms in Health class.
              \_ ... and never re-use condoms.
              \_ Who doesn't mind being B?  Yucks!
                 \_ jj
        \_ on a scale of 1-10 (ten being the best), how do you rate yourself
           in terms of C++ coding (C, Perl, etc.)?
           \_ 11.  For all of them.
                \_ shows confidence, which is good, but perhaps way too
                        cocky for team unity?
        \_ borg cube vs. death star. who wins? -ali
           \_ That's not a fair comparison! It should be cube vs star destroyer!
                \_ Death star.  Ever seen a BC fire one blast at a planet
                   and destroy it?  Not carrything that kind of firepower.
                   Also, not using the force.
                   |_ The force is irrelevant.
                      \_ I find your lack of faith disturbing.  - Vader
                         \_ I have heard this countless times from
                            countless speices. Now they are all M$
                            subsidaries, uh I mean, borg.
                                \_ Until the DoJ gets done with them.
           \_ Kirk vs. Han Solo -> who can get more?
                \_ Kirk got it all the time.  What'd Solo ever get?
           \_ Luke vs. Wesley vs. Nog vs. Jar-Jar vs. Young Anakin vs. Alexander
              Pick three to kill. Justify sparing the others.
                \_ remove Alexander, Jar-Jar, Wesley (who's Nog?)
                   \_ Who is Alexander?
                \_ Sorry, I'd kill them all due to inability to justify.
       \_ Steve Ballmer vs. Larry Ellison, who wins?
          \_ depends on which company is interviewing you
             \_ Good point. I was thinking of a non-aligned power.
          Kirk vs. Picard, who wins?
          Linux vs. *BSD, who wins?
          HPUX vs. AIX, aren't you glad there is Solaris?
          Quebec Frenchies vs. French Frenchies, whose more wako?
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18134 Activity:very high
4/27    Thanks for the job interview suggestions the other day.  I asked
        the "Write a program that sums integers given at the command-line".
        That was indeed a good thing.
        \_ You have got to be ***FUCKING KIDDING***.  What position
           were you hiring for, janitor?  -blojo (intoxicated)
        \_ I'm glad it helped.  blojo: face it, people are fucking morons.
                \_ Original post was looking for a warm body that can do some
                   \_ Shit, where can you find such personnel? Ours only
                      know how to inadvertently jar loose power cords.
                   basic coding in C/C++.  Dunno about your janitors but ours
                   can only admin 95/98/NT.
                   \_ Shit, where can you find such personnel? Our custodial
                      staff only know how to inadvertently jar loose the
                      computer power cords.
        \_ How did it go?  We want the gory details...
           \_ Well, I'll be strictly factual since this might filter back to
              them.  One person was unhappy doing it in C, and thought
              "command-line arguments" meant cout << "Please enter # of
              integers to be added".  The other person got it more or less
              right except they had main(char *argv[], int argc) and they
              didn't initialize int sum.  I gave them both 5 minutes.  What
              this told me was that the first person may have problems with
              C programming and communication, and the second person is
              so-so.  Incidentally, the first person had a GPA of 3.8 and is
              a grader for a C++ course and the second has a GPA of 3.2, and
              they were both MS students.  Don't ask which school.  ("When I
              grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!")
                \_ All my faith in the world is destroyed.  -blojo (ibid)
                   \_ I once knew an MSCS from CMU who couldn't grasp the
                      concept of moving a file from his AOL account to his
                      home machine with net access. -- ilyas
                        \_ Proving what?  That a degree means nothing?  We
                           all knew that already.
                           \_ The motd is not a proving ground.
                        \_ Maybe he was into theory and never used a computer.
                           \_ Hi paolo
                           \_ You know, I am interviewing people now, so I
                              have some actual data to bring to bear.  And
                              you know what, a math degree generally entails
                              a greater degree of clue than a CS degree.
                              How about that?  -- ilyas
                              \_ Clue about the stars?  Tell us about them.
                  \_ "People Are Stupid (TM)".  I was at a company that did
                      UCB on-campus interviews and they asked CS undergrad
                      seniors if they could write an algorithm to insert
                      into a linked list in sorted order.  >50% couldn't --oj
              \_ Huh. maybe there IS an actual IT shortage after all.
              \_ hey most modern computer guys don't need no command lines
                \_ You meant to say, "Most button pushing monkeys only need
                   a mouse".
                   \_ congratulations you missed the sarcasm
2000/4/12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17981 Activity:kinda low
4/11    In Java is there an alternative to out.print
        if I wanted to display the result :
        "for(bleh;blhe;bleh) {out.print("blah" + blah)}"
        to the browser ?
        \_ if you don't want to be fancy, out.print puts it in the java console
           and you can look at that.  Otherwise start learning awt.
                \_ Thanks!
2000/4/6-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17945 Activity:nil
4/6     In a big project, is it usually a good practice to try to use one
        general purpose language for ease of maintenance and extensibility
        (e.g. Java) or heterogenous environment (e.g. Java+C+Perl)?
        \_ There is no one answer to this question.
2000/4/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:17940 Activity:nil
4/6     C vs. Java vs. Perl comparisons:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
int fib(int num) {
    if (num==0 || num==1) {return 1;}
    return fib(num-1) + fib(num-2);
main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
    printf("%d\n", fib(atoi(argv[1])));
import java.lang.*;
class fib {
    private static int fib(int num) {
        if (num==0 || num==1) {return 1;}
        return fib(num-1)+fib(num-2);
    public static void main(String args[]) {
        System.out.println(fib( (new Integer(args[0])).intValue() ));
sub fib {
    if ($num==0 || $num==1) {return 1;}
    return fib($num-1)+fib($num-2);
print fib($ARGV[0])."\n";

        Conclusion: C is still the fastest. Java is not as slow as people
        think it is. Perl is nowhere close to Java performance.
        \_ I could an implementation on my TI-85 pseudo-BASIC that will kick
           the crap out of any of those. Take an algorithms course. That's
           the conclusion.
2000/4/1-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:17907 Activity:high
3/31    how can i tell whether a Java object is an array?
        ie applet.getClass().toString() -> java.applet.Applet
        (new int[] { 1, 2, 3 }).getClass() -> ?
        \_ Arrays aren't objects, they are primitive types.  Your question
           betrays a serious lack of understanding of what an object is, and
           an array is.  I hope you haven't graduated.
           \_ Your reply betrays a serious lack of experience programming
              in Java,  Java isn't my first choice, but that's like one
              of the first principles you learn coding in it.
           \_ "Java arrays are objects" -- the opening words of Chapter 10,
              Arrays, in the Java Language Spec.
           \_ nevertheless, you can do:
                1) (new int[] { 1, 2, 3 }).getClass()
                2) Object o = (new int[] { 1, 2, 3 })
                3) BUT NOT Object o = 1
              so its not an object... ??? :p
              go read:
              and you'll see the reason for the question.
              its a big kludge by Sun
           \_ array.getClass().isArray() -> true
              hope you haven't graduated either ;p
                \_ the String class supports '+' and '+='
                   \_ that's just syntatic sugar,
                      but object vs primitive in Java is a Real Big Mess(TM)
                        \_ "Java=C++--" - Bill Joy
                        \_ GO Smalltalk!!! -purist
                        \_ PERL 5.6!!!
                           \_ ED! ED is the Standard Language!
                                \_ so how can you tell if an ED! object is
                                   an array?
                                   \_ Its all just memory anyway, just toggle
                                      the right bits in RAM. How hard is that?
                                      (Not hard at all, if you have ED fu!)
                                        \_ It's easy in PERL.
                                           \_ This thread looks similar to
                                              Bresenham's algorithm.
                                                \_ I wrote that in PERL with
                                                   ED once, just for kicks.
                                                   \_ NO, WINDOWS. WINDOWS IS
                                                      THE STANDARD EVERYTHING.
                                                      \_ Microsoft invented
                                                         the Internet.
                                                         \_ I heard that BG
                                                            wrote PERL with an
                                                            early version of
                                                            \_ cool.
                                                   \_ NO, MAC OS X WILL SQUASH
                                                      WINDOZE SOON.  LONG
                                                      LIVE APPLE-NeXT
                                                      \_ NO, WINDOWS. WINDOWS
                                                         EATS EVERYTHING FOR
                                                         BREAKFAST. IT IS THE
                                                         SOLUTION TO ALL YOUR
                                                         PROBLEMS. NEED AN
                                                         ABORTION? WINDOWS
                                                         WILL TAKE CARE OF IT.
                                                         NEED TO HAVE YOUR CAR
                                                         FIXED. WINDOWS WILL
                                                         TAKE CARE OF IT. BILL
                                                         GATES IS MY GOD.
                                                      \_ NEGATIVE...THE
                                                         NEW HYBRID OF UNIX
                                                         AND THE MAC OS WILL
                                                         TURN THE TIDE IN
                                                         IN THE MAC/PC WARS
                                                         FOR YEARS TO COME.
                                                         MACS WILL NO LONGER
                                                         JUST LOOK GOOD...
                                                         THEY WILL ESTABLISH
                                                         A NEW PARADIGM IN
                                                         PERSONAL COMPUTING.
                                                         STEVE JOBS, THE
                                                         "REALITY DISTORTION
                                                         FIELD MAN" IS THE
                                                         TRUE MESSIAH WHO
                                                         WILL RESTORE
                                                         BALANCE TO THE
                                                         FORCE.  REMEMBER:
                                                         THERE CAN ONLY
                                                         BE ONE.
2000/4/1-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17906 Activity:nil
3/31    if Object o = new int[] { 1, 2, 3 };
        then how do i cast it back to a Java array and traverse it? Thanks!
        \_ int[] a = (int[]) o;
           Reflection is cool, but you don't need it for this.
           \_what is reflection?
        \_ Sun realizing you can't, added java.lang.reflect.Array
           java.lang.reflect.Array.get(o, i);
           but you still have to strip the wrapper for primitives, duh...
2000/3/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17844 Activity:low
3/24    newbie programming question: If I try and create an ofstream
        object and it fails, how do I find out why?  Can I use errno
        or do I have to do something different?  Basically I want
        to know how to fill in the fragment below:

        ofstream outf(fileName);
        if (! outf) {
                // print an error message indicating why we failed
                // for fopen I could use perror("open failed because:");
        } // thanks
        \_ ofstream::error()

        \_  which class is this for?
2000/3/18-20 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17795 Activity:high
3/18    Rookie C++ question: Is the following circular situation allowed -
        defining a ClassA with a member variable that is a pointer to an
        object of ClassB, and also defining ClassB with a member variable that
        is pointer to an object of ClassA.  If it is allowed, how do I go
        about with the #include, #ifndef, etc.
        \_ not to forget to mention that many data-structs use this
           circular pointer of classes of different types (red-black trees)
           so it wouldn't make sense to design one of the most versatile
           languages without this feature.
        \_ Yes, it's allowed.  You need to do a forward declaration for the
           classes that haven't been defined at the point where you're using
           them.  For example:
                // A.h
                class ClassB;
        No preprocessor pain is necessary.  This works for reference members
        as well. And they don't have to be in separate files.... This works
                class ClassA {  ClassB *pB; };
                // B.h
                class ClassA;
        Good luck... -mogul
                class ClassB {  ClassA *pA; };
           No preprocessor pain is necessary.  This works for reference
           members as well. And they don't have to be in separate files....
           This works too:
                class ClassB;
                class ClassA { ClassB *pB; };
                class ClassB { ClassA *pA; };
           Good luck... and sign your frickin' name, punk! -mogul
           \_ Hehehe!  Thanks for the answer!  It's kind of embarassing
              to put my name when it's such a dumb question.  I know
              there is function declaration, but didn't know about
              class declaration, having always used the #include, #ifndef
           \_ real men use "typename" for forward decls. or something. -ali
              \_ Whatever.  Real men know when to use typename.  And that's in
                 template functions and classes when the type name might not be
                 easily derived as such.
              \_ real men use real languages that don't have this sort of BS.
2000/3/14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17760 Activity:moderate
3/13    opinions on cs188?  who is good/someone to avoid?  which languages
        do which profs use?  thanks.
        \_ I took cs188 from Stuart Russell, and enjoyed it.  It was a
           reasonably easy course, as far as upper division CS courses go.
           As always, the truly interesting stuff is only covered in
           graduate classes.  Russell had people programming in lisp, but I
           heard he is moving to Java now.  Malik (who is a vision guy)
           has people using Matlab.  I recommend Russell.  -- ilyas
           \_ Java!  Kewl!  I herd that Java is the best!1
2000/3/8 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17718 Activity:moderate
3/8     Could someone give me links to c or Java source code that
        encodes JPEG files from a bitmap? I also need links on how a JPEG
        file is structured?  --curious freshman
        \_ Read about Fast Fourier Transforms.  CLR (the 170 text book)
           chapter 32 covers them. -dans
2000/3/6-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17695 Activity:nil
3/4     How do I use semaphore+cond variable in Java?
        \_ no such thing in Java, only "synchronized"
        \_ Perl!
        \_ I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but if you can use
           mutual exclusion to do what you want, use the synchronized
           key word. If you need full semaphores, Doug Lea has written
           a concurrcy library:
2000/3/6-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17693 Activity:high
3/5     61 series are using Java. What about other courses e.g. 162 (Java OS?)
        164 (COOL Java compiler?), etc etc? Are they now in Java, or still
        C/C++? For new students, wouldn't they have to learn both?
                                                        -curious 1990 alum
        \_ 61a- Scheme, 61b- Java and one week of C++, 61c- C, C++
           162 - C++, 164 - depends on prof; hilfy does a Java compiler in C++
           while Aiken does a Cool compiler in Java. 169 - choose your own but
           most people do their projects in Java. 170 - demmel didn't like
           java and told people not to use it. solutions in Standard ML were
           provided. our project was written in C. 172 - no programming req'd
           but I sometimes hacked together programs to do my HW in scheme
           and perl. 174 - none 182 - java and (maybe?) CL 184 - c/c++/Tcl(?)
           186- c++ 188- CL and there is a perl decal class this semester.
           i haven't taken all these so some of it is hearsay; i started in
           1997 -brg
        \_ If Berkeley is really serious about hard core computer
           science, it would be teaching pseudo academia language that has
           absolutely no revelance in the real world (just look at Stanfurd
           and MIT). On the other hand, if Berkeley is really serious about
           kewl language, it would be teaching Java and nothing else
           (just look at community college). IMHO, Berkeley is in between
           the useless theoretical academia (Stanfurd) and the ludicrous
           industry (community college).
           \_ Because Berkeley and MIT are so academically oriented makes
              it a very good school for people who want to go out into
              the real world.  That's why so many good companies that make
              leading edge products seek students from universities like
              Berkeley.  All this theory that you consider so bullshit is
              probably more applicable to the real world than anything you
              get out of a piece of shit trade school like ITT.  I bet you
              haven't realized it by now but some of the "bad-ass" chips
              sitting in your computer and cell phones wouldn't be there
              were it not for masters and PhD students.  They don't hire
              weenie ass B.S. students like yourself to do something
              that important.
              \_ Just to name a few:
                 Kahan (current Berkeley prof) - responsible for IEEE 754
                 standard and all FP arithmetic on Intels before Pentium
                 D Patterson (also Cal prof) - RISC, RAID, NOW, IRAM
                 D Ditzel (Cal masters, auth famous RISC paper w/ Patterson)
                 responsible for 20 successful chip designs. Now CEO of
                 Douglas W Clark (prof at Princeton) - lead VAX engineer
              that important. Next time you go to a job interview tell
              your job interviewer that you think that all professors
              from Berkeley are full of shit because they're "theoretical"
              and don't use Java and see how far you'll get.
        \_ No C++ in 61c, mainly MIPS assembly and a little C
                \_ when I was TA'ing last summer, we allowed C++ whenever we
                   didn't care about their being able to compile-by-hand; C
                   otherwise. -brg
        \_ Sigh... More of the "let's use the kewlest new fad language" from
           Cal profs trying to be compu-hip.
           \_ clueP?  Do you know what you're talking about?
                \_ Do you?  More code continues to be written in C than JAVA
                   and this will remain true for years to come.
                   \_ Good, that's a sensible reason to teach C over Java.
                      However, this sense is not evident in the initial
                      comment which presumes idiot profs.
                        \_ No.  Not idiot.  Compu-hip kewl profs tagging along
                           on the latest bandwagon so they won't look like the
                           dinosaurs they are.
                           \_ There you go again -- your point is made
                   \_ And how much code is written in scheme? Why does 61a
                      use scheme, then? I think it's because it's a good
                      language to teach concepts of computer science, not
                      because it's a good language for engineers to use in
                      a business environment. What do you think?
                        \_ Yes, true.  Fine for a first class.  What the hell
                           is the point of Java other than "We be hip!  We be
                           kewl!  We be da with-it Cal Profs!"?
           \_ The move to java has let instructors focus less on learning
              language specifics and more on theory.  There are projects
              in 61b that would have never been attempted were it still taught
              using c++.  That being said, it is true that students tend to
              not to pick up c/c++ on their own well enough for upper division
                \_ In other words, the lower div java crap isn't preparing kids
                   for what they really need to know to get through the upper
                   div work?  Kewl >> Value in Berkeley CS.  Java should be a
                   9 series course for those interested in fads and nothing
                   \_ I seriously doubt that the lower division work in any
                      form ever really prepared students for the amount of
                      work and "experience" required for upper division work.
                      The current situation merely stops making pretenses at
                      trying to say that these courses are "all a CS student
                      will need" to make it through upper division work, stop
                      wasting time teaching students something they should
                      pick up on their own, and use the time to teach them
                      something they won't pick up on their own.  No 61x class
                      can teach a student the language/programming skills
                      they need to finish CS1xx work here.
                      \_ I agree strongly.  In addition to providing a strong
                         theoretical background, I think the most important
                         thing Berkeley "teaches" is the ability to pick up
                         new languages and skills.  The way this skill is
                         "taught" is by NOT teaching languages, and expecting
                         that students learn languages and some other
                         specifics without being spoonfed them in a class.
                         I will grant, however, that there are probably more
                         "in it for the money" lamers today than there were
                         five or ten years ago.  The lamers don't grasp the
                         value of learning this stuff on their own, and want
                         to be spoonfed.  I think the number of clued folks
                         has probably stayed pretty much constant over the
                         years, even though the number of lamers has probably
                         grown due to the recent tech boom.  I think that the
                         important thing is not to lose sight of the clued
                         folks even though they're surrounded by a sea of
                         lamers.  I think you'll find that they're every bit
                         as good as the folks of yesteryear. -dans
                         \_ There was a time when they knew the difference
                            between their, they're, and there.  Looking good on
                            the resume, dans.
                            \_ Corrected oh motd grammar god.  I'll take this
                               as a lesson to be more vigilant about my usage
                               of homonyms at 3 in the morning.  And for the
                               record: their - used for plural possession
                                       they're - contraction, they are
                                       there - useful little bugger, can
                                               serve (among other things) as
                                               a pronoun and an adverb
                               P.S. If that's what they teach in English 1A,
                               it's no wonder so many Berkeley students are
                               incapable of composing a coherent sentence.
                                \_ I was going to say Subject A but I don't
                                   know if it exists anymore.
                                   \_ It still exists and there are still lots
                                      of people who have trouble passing
                                      and/or satisfying it.  I AP'ed out.
2000/3/1-2 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Theory] UID:17663 Activity:high
2/29    What's the difference between a context-free-grammar and a
        \_ Context-free: a rule maps a non-terminal onto a string of
           non-terminals and terminals; decidable by a pushdown automaton
           Context-sensitive: a rule maps a string of terminals and
           non-terminals to a _longer_ string of terminals and non-terminals;
           decidable by a linear-bounded turing machine, but not by a PDA.
           Universal: a rule maps a string of terminals and non-terminals
           onto any other string of terminals and non-terminals (aka
           Universal Rewrite Rules), decidable by a TM, but not always by
           a LBTM/PDA. For more, RTFM; the motd is not a math book. -alexf
        \_ I wonder who is asking 172 questions on the motd? -brg
           \_ A lazy idiot.  -- ilyas
              \_ Yes, and anyone dumb enough to take 172 is just an idiot.
                 \_ Hey, for the record, 172 was my favourite class at Cal.
                    But asking such ... class-related questions on the motd
                    seems pretty lame to me.  The least you could do is
                    troll well.  -- ilyas
                    \_ And mie favourite klass was Collej Righting 1A
                       becouse we lerned to spel words like favourite.
                    \_ Anyone who doesn't like the same classes as ilyas is a
                       \_ Anyone who says stupid shit like:

              '\_ Yes, and anyone dumb enough to take 172 is just an idiot.'

                          is a troll. -- ilyas
                          \_ ilyas hath spoken and so shall it be!
                \_ I liked 172 a lot, even though I got my ass kicked and
                I am definetely not into math...        -muchandr
         \_ more like 164 I bet.
            \_ 164 almost never covers CSLs/CSGs
                \) why did everyone bitch about my 164 class then? -aspo
                   \_ Who cares?
                \_ 164 is boring. 264 is more interesting.
2000/2/28-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/Theory] UID:17642 Activity:insanely high
2/28    If the push-down automton can accept the language consisting of all
        words in the form (a^n b^n, n=1,2,3,...), how come no pushdown
        automaton, deterministic or non-deterministic can accept
        (a^n b^n c^n, n=1,2,3,...)? How would a linear bounded automaton
        accept this language?
        \_ Just write a perl script for some computer.  Make k large enough
        \_ Do you own homework.
           to make 3*n*k be equal to the RAM size of the computer.
           \_ 'your'
                \_ 'typo'
                   \_ 'idiot'
                        \_ Think of this the next time you typo, idiot.
           "That's how."
                \_ and people wonder why the csua is a sysadmin farm
        \_ pumping lemma pumping lemma pumping lemma, hehe.
        \_ Do your own homework.
        \_ Are you saying no one has shown that it can, or are you saying
           someone has formally proved that it can't?
           \_ "Someone" has formally proved that it can't, and YOU CAN, TOO!
              With just a small 4-unit investment into an intro complexity
              class, YOU TOO can go around saying cool words like "pumping
              lemma", "LBTM", "Savitch", and "EXPfuckingSPACE." Take 172,
              and CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOR THE BETTER! -alexf (real answer: pump)
              \_ I did take 172 in Spring '91.  I just had a lousy professor
        \_ How relevant is complexity, architecture, automata&languates,
           logic&systems design, theory of computation? NONE. I took a
           c++/Java class and now I'm making 80K/year.          -not CS major
           \_ relevant to what?  just because most people in computers
              dont need to understand fundamentals doesn't make it important.
              this is like all those idiots who think that because they make
              tons of money in software hardeware is useless.  without
              people to concieve of new kinds of computing devices who understa
              nd theory and people to build those devices, you would not
              have anything to work on for your 80k/yr.  no one is going
              to pay you 80k/yr to write addition algorithms on Babbage's
              difference engine.  not relevant to *your*life != not relevant.
                \_ I happily make tons of money in a non-hardware field and
                   fully appreciate all the hardware toys that come my way.
                   Not a CS major and making more than the clown above who
                   doesn't get it.  Every advance in either software or hardware
                   is good for everyone's bottomline.
           \_ Is your code maintainable and extensible?  Probably not...
                \_ Are you in school and making +80K? Probably not.
                   Are you in industry and making +80K? Probably.
                   \_ Industry is for brainless people and academia is for
                        brainy people. Industry sucks and academia rules.
                        B1FF G0 BAC|< 2 SK00L!!!!!!!
                        \_ "I work for academia and get paid less to do less,
                           therefore I am morally superior and more intelligent
                           than my industry counterpart."  This is such a total
                           crock.  It was hard to get a good first industry job
                           coming from academia because in industry they know
                           the book worms don't know how to produce, can't work
                           and can't get along well with others.  Academia isnt
                           even academia anymore.  How many rooms and buildings
                           are named after companies or CEO-ish sponsors?  How
                           many projects on compas are paid for in whole or in
                           part by industry?  You think that's free money from
                           the goodness of USA INC's heart?  Academia is the
                           cheap research arm of industry, today.  Traditional
                           academics are dead.  Long dead.
                           \_ Idiot.  It's the long term research in the
                              industry that is dead.  Go away, you superficial
                              software drone.
2000/2/25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:17615 Activity:moderate 70%like:17608
2/23    To all the CS graduates, how much do you like your job? What exactly
        are you working on? Would you recommend CS?     -sophomore declaring

       Screw this loser, read the reply after my friend:
        \_ Go into it for the money.  The cock suckers talking about doing it
           for the love of it exist in every field.  Do it for the money for
           a few years so you can afford to do whatever you want for the love
           of it for the rest of your life without worrying about the rent,
           mortgage payments, car payments, children's educations, or how to
           pay the electric bill and put food on the table.  The idealists
           are fools throwing away their youth.  These are the same people
           who will be voting every year for a socialist government to take
           care of them in their old age because they "lived life for the
           pure pleasure of it".  They think of themselves as some sort of
           counter culture heros.  I think of them as leeches.  Go for the
           money, sonny.
           \_ Hrm.  I disagree with you on several points.  Starving to death
              so you can do something that you love is just plain silly and
              as far as I can see, you're the only one suggesting such a thing.
              The most common thread here is that you'll be very unhappy doing
              something that you hate -- been there, done that, and it ain't
              worth it.  Second of all, you seem to be implying that by doing
              CS for the money you will deterministically become rich and THEN
              be able to go on and do something that you love.  That's just
              absurd.  Thirdly, associating someone that enjoys their
              work with a political philosophy or moral standpoint is, at
              best, illogical (I myself tend to be pro-gun, pro-death
              penalty -- pretty far from what most people would think of as
              liberal or left-wing).  You can think of them as leeches, but
              if you were really *reading* anything anyone was saying, you'd
              have noted that we were all talking about being *employed* and
              enjoying our work.  Of course, this could just be an idiotic
              troll and I'm wasting my breath taking you seriously. -mice
        \_ don't listen to this angry, cynical asshole.  i know a pharmacist
           who's been working in the field for the past 20 years.  she
           makes at least a consistent $100K a year.  That's more than enough
           to survive on.  but you know what?  she hates the work. and
           she complains about how much it sucks.  and how it goes on and
           on for 8+ hours a day.  don't get stuck in a job that you don't
 's like a slow, minute by minute death.  do what you like,
           but decide if you are going to make the sacrifice.  do you have any
           idea how boring and stupid the guy above sounds?  you are born, you
           grow up, go to school, get married, fuck, have kids, work,
           retire, then die.  There are millions who do the same damn
           mindless pattern of merely living to pass on their dna.  you can
           probably much better than this if your aspirations are in the right
        \_ take cs61 series.  if you can't hack it, then it's a moot point.
           if you're already beyond that, then it's cs162 and cs164 that
           will tell you if you want to be CS or not
        \_ I love my job.  I mostly do distributed system programming.
           The only way I can recommend CS as a major is if you've tried
           at least one CS class and *REALLY* enjoyed the work -- if
           you're thinking of declaring CS strictly for the money, you'll
           probably be pretty unhappy. -mice
           \_ Agreed.  If you're doing CS for the money, you're doing it
              for the wrong reason.  You won't make the kind of money you
              hear about ("overnight millionaires") unless you truly have
              a passion for it.  A passion that drives you to learn more and
              more and more until you truly have much Fu.  Moral:  Do what
              excites you.  --sowings
              \_ gee, really?  I heard some guy in a diner tell me that
                 his daughter was finishing her masters in CS and southern
                 connecticut state university so she could work in
                 "sillycone valley", where they pick you up in a limmo
                 at the airport, give you a private cook, and pay you several
                 hundred thousand a year automatically.  "That's how
                 they are out in California," he told me.  Shit.  Sign
                 me up.
                        -lives a long way from silicon valley
                        \_ Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight -Dr. Evil
                           \_ no, really, i really heard a guy said that,
                              and i'm pretty sure the poor guy belived it.
                              \_ Not questioning whether or not he said it
                                 but he's just not evil enough.  He's the
                                 margarine of evil.  -Dr. Evil
                 \_ are feeling okay there?  you seem a little piqued.
                \_ you were confused. He was actually referring to
                   "Silicone Valley", where all that happens if you have
                   nice tits, and you show them to the right people.
                   Which in Grammy-speak, means "everyone".
           \_ hey, I declared Chem Engineering 'for the money' and wound up
              doing computer/networking work for more! -ERic
                 \_ I was MSME and I wound up working at Cisco. I didn't
                    get into networking for the money though, it was just
                    more interesting than Mat. Sci.. The money hasn't been
                    \_ just a comment for the record that has nothing to
                       do with this thread: materials science may not be
                       that neat now, but in the next couple decades it
                       will see the same kinds of amazing progression that
                       computer science has in the last few decades, mark
                       my words.  In twenty five years mat. sci. will be just
                       as exciting as CS is now, and it will bear very little
                       resemblance to what is currently called materials
                        \_ Just one word of advice, son, "Plastics".
                    bad though. I'm not sure I would have liked CS at Cal,
                    since I found that the undergrad CS classes don't really
                    teach you CS.
                     \_ uh-huh...
                        \_ I took some of the 1xx classes and a couple of
                           of the 2xx (grad) classes at Cal along with several
                           2xx (grad) classes at Stanford and found that
                           the *real* stuff is taught only in the grad coures.
                            \_ which 1xx courses?
              \_ Sure, but you like computers, ERic.  I have taken classes
                 with CS majors who declared how much they hated computers
                 (and not the right-after-something-won't-compile "i hate
                 computers") and thought they (computers) would be the
                 downfall of modern civilization, but they figured they'd
                 make some money off them while they could.  I feel a PHB
                 in someone's future.  I wonder if I'll even want to be in
                 the computer industry in 5 years when all of the current
                 CS ugrads who are in it for the money graduate and come
                 looking for jobs.  <sob>
                        \_ CS ugrads who are in it only for the money are
                           nothing new - they've been around for many years
                           \_ Maybe so, but there has been a much greater
                              influx of them recently.  --sowings
                              \_ Agreed, but this is nothing that can't be
                                 remedied with a couple of shotguns. -dans
                                 \_ .45
                                  \_ shotguns.  yuk yuk.  you are so kewl
                                     \_ Shotgun is a weapon of a peasant.
                                        .45! .45! .45 is the STANDARD!
                                        Subsonic one-shot-drop-dead caliber.
                                        \_ Idiot.
                                           \_ NATO knave.
                                              \_ NATO nothing.  Fuck that
                                                 pussy subsonic .45 shit.
                                                 .454 baby.  *THAT'S* a man's
                                                 \_ Casull?
                                                 \_ I don't want the round
                                                    passing through.
              \_ the economics of our world today make life impossible,
                 especially this area, don't you all think?  *sigh*
        \_ Everything in here is wrong except the bits about
           "thousand", "materials", and "everyone".
2000/2/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/Networking] UID:17608 Activity:very high 70%like:17615
2/23    To all the CS graduates, how much do you like your job? What exactly
        are you working on? Would you recommend CS?     -sophomore declaring
        \_ I love my job.  I mostly do distributed system programming.
           The only way I can recommend CS as a major is if you've tried
           at least one CS class and *REALLY* enjoyed the work -- if
           you're thinking of declaring CS strictly for the money, you'll
           probably be pretty unhappy. -mice
           \_ Agreed.  If you're doing CS for the money, you're doing it
              for the wrong reason.  You won't make the kind of money you
              hear about ("overnight millionaires") unless you truly have
              a passion for it.  A passion that drives you to learn more and
              more and more until you truly have much Fu.  Moral:  Do what
              excites you.  --sowings
              \_ gee, really?  I heard some guy in a diner tell me that
                 his daughter was finishing her masters in CS and southern
                 connecticut state university so she could work in
                 "sillycone valley", where they pick you up in a limmo
                 at the airport, give you a private cook, and pay you several
                 hundred thousand a year automatically.  "That's how
                 they are out in California," he told me.  Shit.  Sign
                 me up.
                        -lives a long way from silicon valley
                        \_ Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight -Dr. Evil
                           \_ no, really, i really heard a guy said that,
                              and i'm pretty sure the poor guy belived it.
                              \_ Not questioning whether or not he said it
                                 but he's just not evil enough.  He's the
                                 margarine of evil.  -Dr. Evil
                 \_ are feeling okay there?  you seem a little piqued.
                \_ you were confused. He was actually referring to
                   "Silicone Valley", where all that happens if you have
                   nice tits, and you show them to the right people.
                   Which in Grammy-speak, means "everyone".
           \_ hey, I declared Chem Engineering 'for the money' and wound up
              doing computer/networking work for more! -ERic
                 \_ I was MSME and I wound up working at Cisco. I didn't
                    get into networking for the money though, it was just
                    more interesting than Mat. Sci.. The money hasn't been
                    bad though. I'm not sure I would have liked CS at Cal,
                    since I found that the undergrad CS classes don't really
                    teach you CS.
                     \_ uh-huh...
                        \_ I took some of the 1xx classes and a couple of
                           of the 2xx (grad) classes at Cal along with several
                           2xx (grad) classes at Stanford and found that
                           the *real* stuff is taught only in the grad coures.
              \_ Sure, but you like computers, ERic.  I have taken classes
                 with CS majors who declared how much they hated computers
                 (and not the right-after-something-won't-compile "i hate
                 computers") and thought they (computers) would be the
                 downfall of modern civilization, but they figured they'd
                 make some money off them while they could.  I feel a PHB
                 in someone's future.  I wonder if I'll even want to be in
                 the computer industry in 5 years when all of the current
                 CS ugrads who are in it for the money graduate and come
                 looking for jobs.  <sob>
                        \_ CS ugrads who are in it only for the money are
                           nothing new - they've been around for many years
                           \_ Maybe so, but there has been a much greater
                              influx of them recently.  --sowings
                              \_ Agreed, but this is nothing that can't be
                                 remedied with a couple of shotguns. -dans
                                 \_ .45
2000/2/18-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17546 Activity:nil
2/17    check out csua/pub/jobs/SpringStreet
         we especially need web developers and java scripting
2000/2/11-13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17491 Activity:low
2/11    Are most upper division courses in CS in Java?  Do they teach C++/C
        \_ Computer science isn't the business of teaching C/C++ or Java
           or Perl or any other programming language.  Nor is it about
           "how to program either".  But from what I've been through
           many upper div CS courses still use C/C++ including 162, 164
           184 and EE 122 (yeah, it's not classified under CS but oh well).
           Some like 170 let you have the option of using Java or whatever
           you prefer.  And 152 uses VHDL.  Again, the point of the course
           isn't how to program.  That can easily be learned in a few weeks
           and are what the CS 9x service courses are for.
           \_ CS170 almost never allows Java. When did it??!? CS164 is taught
              in Java once in a while. Wang let you do your 186 project in
              Java if you prefer. A lot of students use Java for 169 and 160
              (classes where you have a choice). 162, 170, and 184 are the
              most C++ oriented. Oh ya, EE122 usually prohibits Java... at
              least it has for the past 4 semesters.
                \_ Java is allowed since "C is too hard... waaaah... I always
                   get segfaults and core dumps and don't know what it means!!"
                   \_ That would be a good point except for the fact that it
                      it isn't true. Java usually isn't allowed in CS170.
                      \_ Wrong. At least for the past 3 semesters, there were
                         no official restrictions on what language to use for
                         the projects.
           \_ Agree.
                Nuclear physics, academia = quantum mech, hardcore equations
                Nuclear physics, industry = cleaning up nuclear waste
              By the same token,
                Computer science, academia = hardcore algorithm
                Computer science, industry = debug other people's code
              As usual, academia=no money=:(, industry=money=:)
           \_ having said that, while it is not the purpose of the
              undergraduate curriculum to teach people languages or how
              to program, as matter of neccesity, students must learn
              how to, even if they have to do it on their own.
                \_ kchang?  is that you kchang???
2000/2/2-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17405 Activity:high 80%like:18264 66%like:18071 80%like:17656 66%like:17102 66%like:16487
2/2/00  happy even day!
        \_ Only on _your_ calendar and system of mathematics.
           \_ In what system of mathematics does the definition of
              even change?
                \_ Binary.  Been to a basic CS class in the last 20 years?
                   \_ How does the definition of even change in binary? Also
                      that's not really a different system of mathematics,
                      just a base change. - nb
                      \_ Maybe by "even" the second poster meant even digits
                         instead of even numbers.  Then in binary number system
                         there are no "even-digits days" at all, or the only
                         "even-digits days" are 0/0/00 of each century if you
                         only use two digits for years.  -- not the second
        \_ It is day 33, twink.
2000/1/30-2/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:17374 Activity:kinda low
1/29    What happened to <DEAD>csua/motd.cgi<DEAD> ?
        \_ Perhaps you should mail www@csua like the error message says, not
           ask on the motd where perhaps one or two of the many who read it
           will be able to do something about it.
        \_ Paolo decided to be helpful and break it.  Aren't you glad we
           have paolo to fuck so many things up for us?
           \_ No, actually, I pointed out that it had a fairly serious
              security hole in it, and so he disabled it.  But of course
              it sounds much better to say "Paolo broke it".  Idiot.
                \_ dbushong is an evil hacker and broke the motd.cgi script!
        \_ Hi.  I'll get around to fixing the motd.cgi after all my work
           from my paying job + class work is done.  - paolo.
           \_ So, 4 years or 5?
              \_ can't be that long, I'm graduating in december. Go bears!
2000/1/28-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17366 Activity:nil
1/28    Follow up to GC in Java. How do you:
        1) look at the memory space/usage in JVM
        2) force GC on Java 1.2?
        3) How is HotSpot GC implemented?
2000/1/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17305 Activity:low
1/22    Where is a good place to look for Java/IMAP APIs? I don't want to
        read RFC for IMAP4.0 and reimplement the APIs. Thanks!
        \_ If you find one, let me know.  the IMAP RFC is quite a hairy
           read.  Not to say that it's any worse than others ... - norby
2000/1/23-24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17301 Activity:nil
1/21    So which computer science professor will TuBerculosis(tjb) flame this
        \_ Email him and ask for his class list.
2000/1/20-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:17278 Activity:moderate
1/20    Where is a good place to find Regular Expression and Regular
        Substitution package for Java?
        \_ -vann
        \_ Just use perl.
        \_ java.text
        \_ GNU has one and oroinc is the best ( ?). It's Perl5
                regex in Java.
2000/1/7-8 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:17189 Activity:high
1/7     Is it possible to install JDK 1.1.7 and 1.1.8 together? The Solaris
        pkgadd always always installs in /usr/java1.1, and unfortunately,
        both 1.1.7 and 1.1.8 installs it in /usr/java1.1.
        \_ just install it elsewhere and link it to /opt/java .  Since I
           have to use three or four different installations at a time, this is
           what I do.                   -brain
           \_ gee brain, what are we going to do tomorrow night? -pinky
                \_ We're going to do what we do every night, Pinky....
                        \_ you mean like fucking my brains out? *poit*
                \_ Can you pose some pix of yours in your home page, Pinky?
2000/1/7-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17185 Activity:nil
1/6     In Java, I can declare huge static string (e.g. static String
        mesg[][] = { {"error1", "Disk error"}, {"hello", "Welcome!"} }.
        How do I do the equivalent in Java Hash table?
        \_ The hard way, i.e. manually adding things in.  Java ain't perl.
        \_ Java is dead.  XML is in.
                \_ Spoken like someone who understands neither.
                        \_ Spoken like a Java fanatic who doesn't understand
                           that the pace of technology has destroyed Java
                           before it ever took off.  Bye Java.  Nice to almost
                           know you.
                                \_ No, just someone who knows the difference
                                   between a programming language and a
                                   document formatting language.  XML is very
                                   cool & useful, but has nothing to do with
                                   writing programs.
                                   \_ No one is going to pay big bucks for last
                                      year's Java coders once XML is in.  It
                                      has nothing to do with writing programs
                                      or document markup.  It has to do with
                                      cold hard cash and the Java folks are
                                      soon to be out.  You're all wrapped up in
                                      the technology.
                \_ Ah, but writing XML parsers in Java is *very* in...
                   a possible motivation for the above post.
                        \_ Doesn't matter what you use to do your XML.
                   \_ EXPAT! EXPAT! EXPAT IS THE STANDARD!  XML parser.
               \_ almost everything you now use employs Java in some fashion,
                  technopeasant.  Java is still very in.  See also "enterprise"
                  Java.         -javaHead
                  \_ Don't be stupid.  Almost everything I now use employs C
                     and some small shred employs C++.  For every line of
                     production Java in the world there's about 300 million
                     in C and 10 million in C++.
              \_ You're dead. Homo sapiens is in.
1999/12/31-2000/1/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/Editors/IDE] UID:17127 Activity:nil
12/30   Is there an editor out there that will analyze my code (C++, Java)
        and tell me if I have a dead variable (dead code elimination),
        visually optimize code, etc? I know that this happens in the
        compiler, but I'd like to have some kind of editor that can
        give me advice.
        \_ ED, ED, ED is the STANDARD!!! Peephole/control-flow optimizer.
1999/12/16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17055 Activity:high
12/15   best book to learn Java?
        \_ You should be able to pick up Java in the first couple of days on
           the job/in the course.
           \_ no job, no course, need a book.
              \_ The best book is "THe java tutorial", online, and free,
                 If you can't learn from online materials, you are a loser
                 who should not be attempting to program. But dont let
                 that stop you from ordering the paper version. Details
                 on that are also on the javasoft site.
1999/12/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:17010 Activity:low 66%like:17015
12/5    When are class accounts turned off?
        \_ The day after finals.
          \_ Why the _FUCK_ are you asking this on the Soda motd?  Cripes,
             get a cl00.  --sowings
        \_ Have you tried reading the login messages on your class account
                or <DEAD>www-inst.eecs<DEAD> ?
1999/12/1-6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:16987 Activity:nil
12/1    friend told me about this internet startup job opportunity but it's
        not what i'm looking for - figured someone here might be interested:
        "Join the leading information-based portal site with e-commerce and
        e-community services for Chinese Internet users worldwide.   Located in
        Irvine, CA, looking for talented web developers with the following
        experience: 2-3 yrs UNIX OS and SQL interface, proficient in java,
        C/C++, shell code dev, web programming & e-commerce site dev."
        email jng for more info.
        \_ Do I need to be Chinese or fluent?
        \_ shouldn't this go to the /csua/pub/jobs soon?
1999/11/25-27 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/OS] UID:16954 Activity:high
11/25   Thought of the day: why hasn't anyone thought of trying a class
        action suit against M$ for providing the OS due to whose incompetence
        90% of currently existent viruses were created? Same goes for the
        new wave of M$ Office/Outlook exploits. This should warrant at
        least a 10-digit number in punitive damages (if not 11 or 12), no?
        (And no, I don't observe thanksgiving).
        \_ read the agreement on the package.
           \_ EULA or not -- as far as I know, _even_ if one agrees to some
              disclaimer, the disclaimer can be deemed invalid under certain
           \_ My EULA says that upon opening the shrinkwrap (which is required
              or you can't read the EULA) that you owe me your body, mind, soul
              and all personal wealth past, present, or future unless you live
              in Guam, the Virgin Islands, or Idaho where this agreement does
              not apply.  In return you are allowed to use my software on one
              computer until such time as I feel otherwise and you have no
              recourse if I break your computer or the software does nothing
              because the CD is a blank.  You agreed to all this upon opening
              the shrinkwrap.  Now that you understand how a M$ EULA works,
              you think it'll protect them from any lawsuits?
              \_ heh it would seem that YOU don't understand much about the
                 law.  to answer your (idiotic and uninformed) question,
                 no, that probably won't, and if you didn't spend all your
                 time wacking off to nudie pics downloaded from the web
                 you'd realize that there are already lawsuits that have been
                 filed in response to the findings of fact.  Stop posting
                 on the motd until your mind is at least 8 years old.  Oh and
                 happy thanksgiving.
                 \_ There's no connection between the monopoly issue, which'll
                    certainly see the light of day time and time again, and
                    what I'm talking about above. The OTHER sin that M$ is
                    guilty of is writing shitty code, shitty enough to create
                    a cottage industry of virii for their platform of
                    unparallelled dimensions. I'm sure I don't need to bring
                    up specific instances... we've all heard more than we
                    wanted to about the recent Outlook exploits. The question
                    is why THAT hasn't gone to court yet. -original poster
                    wanted to about the recent Outlook/Office exploits. The
                    question is why THAT hasn't gone to court yet.
                      -original poster [not author of the 2nd EULA post above]
1999/11/19-20 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16918 Activity:moderate
11/18   Trevor strikes again in ucb.class.cs61c, this time bragging
        about his relations with women.
        \_ He is amusing, gotta give him that. But it begs the question:
           is he abusive and harrassing only in front of a computer
           screen (like many a motd'er), or is he like this in person?
           \_ Personally, I think this Trevor guy is a fictional
              character.  Nobody (either in person or on the newsgroup)
              could be so obnoxious and vulgar (not even in the CSUA).
        \_ Once again proved that he's dork with his half baked
           \_ What did his japanese say?
        \_ Trevor is my lover!  Trevor has got more game than all you geeks
           combined!  -movie star/model/actress with 4.0 GPA in love with TB.
           \_ Trever is gay! He just brags about women to make is BF's jealous.
        \_ This may be an ignorant question, but shouldn't someone from the
           class staff or even Prof. Culler himself should yank him out of
           the class or better yet, have the University expel him for vulgarism
           on a public (class) newsgroup? Or do they just don't give a fuck?
                \_ Why should they care?  By expelling him or taking other
                   action, they'd be giving him the attention he craves.  Does
                   he have a soda account?  He'd be a fun addition to the motd.
           \_ Why? He's an excellent student and the caliber of student that
              we here at Cal admire. Plus, he's loaded so we don't have to
              give him financial aid.
1999/11/16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:16891 Activity:low
11/15   I just realized that I have 5 different copies of JVM on my NT
        (and they sure take up a lot of space!!!) Is there an easy way
        to consolidate them? I have 1.1.4 all the way to 1.2. Thanks!
        \_ Reformat hard drive.  Re-install NT. (yes i suck. no not like that)
        \_ del /s /q  jvm1.1.4/*.*
1999/11/14-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16882 Activity:nil 50%like:17171
11/11   Java and Web Scripting positions available /csua/pub/jobs/BCG/
1999/11/14-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16880 Activity:nil
11/11   In one simple English sentence, what exactly is a Java ServletExec?
        \_ cgi in java with a better name
           \_ Not exactly.  CGI forks a separate process, while servlets
              run in the process space of the already running servlet
              engine.  To answer your question, Java ServletExec
              is a web-server plug-in that provides a servlet engine
              for several web servers (it's a product by a company
              called New Atlanta).
                \_ wrong again. CGI running on a server w/perl_mods also
                   run in the process space of the already running perl module
                   \_ Is mod perl really a cgi in the traditional sense,
                      though?  I always thought of it more as a server side
                      web server enhancement more like ASP than a traditional
                      fork/exec CGI.  Mod perl isn't really a "gateway" to
                      anything anymore.  Maybe I'm just splitting hairs.
        \_ Thanks for the explanation, it is kinda clear now. I have more Qs.
           What exactly is JavaBeans, JavaJini, and all those stuff in
           conherent, jargon-less English sentences and why are they so cool?
           \_ JavaBeans:
              "... all those stuff... and why they are so cool":
           \_ JavaBeans - part of Java 1.1 (now over a year old), easy way
              to make component software that can be used by visual development
              Jini - software architecture designed for lightweight component
              systems that can be broken down into networked "services" without
              a lot of code.
              See also EJB (Enterprise Java Beans), JSP (Java Server Pages,
              now available in apache), and the Big One, J2EE
1999/11/14-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:16873 Activity:nil
11/13   What is a *.jsp page? Is it one of those M$ asp, in Java?
        \_ server side java.  It can run on linux machines ...
1999/11/10-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16861 Activity:high
11/10   If each semester is only $2000, and each student averages 14
        units a semester, how much would lectures and discussions be,
        per hour based?
        \_ *Only* $2000 a semester?  Maybe to your daddy.
        \_ not sure about Berkeley, but a friend of mine at Harvard Med
        \_ Well, gee, let me get out M$Calc.  Do you math, idiot.  And the
           says that each lecture is about $200/hour. Can you believe that?
        \_ Well, gee, let me get out M$Calc.  Do your math, idiot.  And the
           average is 15 units for people who want to graduate in this
                \_ What's the average hr per unit? # of weeks in a semester?
                   Should lab hours be counted?
                        \_ Where have you been?  It's supposed to be 1 unit of
                           credit = 15 hours of class over 15 weeks.  So a 4
                           unit class is 4 hours/week * 15 weeks = 60 hours.
                           Labs tend to fuck this up but I don't take any lab
                           classes so I don't care.  15 units/semester is the
                           standard.  Where are you people getting this 14 and
                           16 and other crap from?
                ED!  ED!  ED is the standard!  number of units per semester _/
           \_ Assume 16 units/sem, 4 units/class, 1 class/4hr lec+discussion,
              you end up paying about $9 per hour. Conclusion: You can
              really afford falling asleep in lectures afterall. Of course,
              med school is a totally different story.
              \_ w0w, Publik sk00l is cheap!!
              \_ Well, UCLA Med is $4000/semester with 16wk semesters (not
                 including 2wks for tests) and about 6.5hrs class/day.
                 Therefore it is ~$7.7 per hour of lecture/lab.  Include
                 tests, and rotations at infinite hours per week and that
                 number falls to probably $4-5 / hr. -drex
              \_ I calculated about $10/hr about 5 years ago.
1999/10/21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:16745 Activity:nil
10/20   Why the csua, and xcf haven't had any cool things/projects come out
        them.  It occurs to me that people keep talking about the myth of
        the good old days, and that everything was cooler then.  Well, you're
        partially right.  You would find hot-shit coders sitting around the
        web and talkig long into the night about this or that thing about
        computer science.  But that doesn't happen anymore.  Why?  Because
        people have better computers at home than any student org can ever
        have.  And so the hot-shit people stay at home.  Look at all the people
        who are brilliant in class.  They certainly don't hang around student
        groups much often, because they're at their reshall/home working on the
        next patch of thread support for linux at their home on their much
        faster computer (than anything we have).  This is why, for some reason
        people you never hear about are the people who do kick ass work at
          mystery solved.  You want to bring back the old days?  Make the cost
        of buying a pentium 666 intensely prohibitive.
1999/10/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:16737 Activity:nil
10/20   Your CS 150 book made /.
1999/9/5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:16468 Activity:low
nt9.6     For all those who hate visual interfaces:
        "Up to 10% extra credit for a wizzy Tcl/Tk (or Java!) user interface
        front end, showinging elevators going up and down and people getting
        on and off, that could be used by next semester?s CS162 class."
        this is straight from the project spec.  Guess UI isn't that
        unimportant after all.
        \_ I'm more concerned with whether they stop using that lame ass
           Nachos for that class and use something like FreeBSD (perhaps
           running on vmware or something)
1999/9/2-5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16453 Activity:high
9/2     Can somebody point me to web sites that has tutorials on BGP, OSPF,
        and other routing protocols?  I have read the RFCs, but they are
        not really written with teaching in mind.  Thanks.
        \_ You can try reading the lecture notes at
           but Kevin Fall was the worst professor (if that's what you call
           him) I've ever had at Berkeley so I don't know how much you'll
           learn from that.  Maybe you should buy the 122 book.
           \_ Yes, he was the worst prof ever. But he didn't give any grade
              below a C-, even if you didn't take the final.
           \_ Worse than Alan Smith?
              \_ I know this 4.0gpa, 17 A-pluses guy who thinks Alan
                 Smith's class is great.
                 \_ You can't???
                 \_ Well, if your primary interest is continuing your string
                    of A-pluses, rather than learning something, Smith *is*
                        \_ Learning is worthless if you can't show it off with
                           good grades.  If you're not getting good grades,
                           you're wasting your time in school.  There's very
                           little you can learn in school that can't be learned
                           out of school.  The only difference is good grades
                           are evidence of having learned something.  A big
                           "yeah whatever, go fuck yourself" for anyone who
                           brings up the old line about not wanting to work
                           for anyone who would dare be stupid enough to ask
                           your gpa.  That's just sour grapes.
                           \_ Not true.  By example, I have two friends in
                              CS.  One has a 3.8 and the other has a 3.1.
           \_ I took that ee122 w/ kfall.  I rather liked the project.
              It wasn't a standard Berkeley CS "Fill in your code here"
              project.  It was: read the rfc, write code according to
              SPEC.  This made me actually feel like I was doing something
              useful.  I still use and am developing my webserver today.
              My only gripe was that the lecture notes were in a format
              (converted .ppt -> .ps) which took too long to print - paolo
              \_ And then there are those idiots who think they can print
                 PDF files straight to a postscript printer.
                 \_ You can't???
                              It's pretty amazing how someone with a 3.8
                              can ask some of the stupidest questions in
                              the world but I personally wouldn't trust
                              my life to him.  He once asked me if you
                              could cast an Integer in Java to a string by
                              Integer i = new Integer(5);
                              How pathetic, yet he still has a 3.8.
                              The guy with the 3.1, on the other hand, is
                              a hell of a lot more trustworthy as he
                              doesn't do idiotic things like cast Integer's
                              to String's
                    great for 162 . . . just memorize his lectures so that
                    you can regurgitate them back at exam time, and you'll do
                    fine.  Not to mention that you didn't have to spend too
                    much time on those pesky NACHOS projects, because they
                    were worth practically nothing.
                    \_ He buys Smith's argument that for cs162 class
                       projects, simulation is more useful than synthesis
                       (ie. NACHOS) in the "real world".
                       \_ "Real world" arguments concerning Smith would have
                          been convincing if he didn't spend his lectures
                          reminiscing about paging out to drum memory on his
                          IBM 1401 . . . for him, the real world stopped
                          somewhere around 1972.
           \_ Dude, you could've taken 122 from Jean Walrand.  Count your
        \_ Cisco has a CD set they give out at their courses.  It's pretty
           good if you ignore the marketing garbage and product info on it.
           Mine's marked "Sales Order Number DOC-CONDOCCD" if that's any
           help.  -John
        \_ Still think that kfall wasn't that bad, even if you selectively
           edit this file.  the webserver project was good, it wasn't an
           "insert code here" type of project, it had to be written from
           scratch to the rfc 1945 spec.  If you want a good book, DO NOT
           BUY Peterson & Davie, kfall himself recommended a book by Keshav.
           - paolo
           \_ i think the only good criticism of the class was not that kfall
              assigned real programming projects but that he wasnt upfront
              about it at the beginning of the semester.  The class had
              not previously had as involved a programming project as when he
              taught it and such could not be expected from the catalog.
              Really, though, there should be an ee122 and cs122, with some
              common ground between the two.  ee122 should talk about the
              the hardware implications of a network protocol and how that
              affects protocol stack design and cs122, the design of a
              protocol stack and use in applications.  But as ee122 talks
              about both aspects, yes, students should be prepared to
              implement a real network protocol.  And for the original
              question, TCP Illustrated.  RIP WR Stevens.
              \_ NO!.  I will explain:  if the Networking class was a CS
                 class, I could not have taken it last semester.  Same with
                 _EE_ 150.  CS Classes are restricted, thus ensuring
                 high wages for those who can graduate with the major.
                 (not necessarily high clue.) - paolo
                 \_ paolo, that is a selfish attitude.  just because you
                    might not have been able to get into the class doesnt
                    mean that it should be taught in an ineffective manner.
                    If separating ee122 into hw and sw classes would teach
                    the material better then so be it.
                    \_ Dreamer.  It's all about self.  School has nothing to
                       do with The Right Thing or they would make sure they
                       didn't have to restrict classes in the first place.
                       Check out the forest, not the trees.
                       \_ right, and so you can have upper div cs classes
                          with 400 students in them.  great idea paolo.
1999/9/2 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16448 Activity:very high
9.2     Aw yeah:
        Ethnic Studies 98, 2 units, MW 12-1, 155 Kroeber
        Tupac Shakur made a significant impact on current and
        future generations.
        This class will explore the nature of Tupac's significance. Class
        discussions, analysis of poetry and songs, guest speakers, films, and
        literature will be utilized to accomplish this exploration.
        Course Coordinator(s): Felipe Macay,, 636-1995
        \_ This isn't real.  You can't earn credits for this.  Please tell me
           this is a joke you made up and not from the class catalog.
           \_ This should satisfy the L&S philosophy & values requirement
              since all of those classes are detached from reality.
           \_ this _is_ a class, and I am taking it - for the units of course.
              and the large reader is _quite_ humourous.
              \_ If you do take this class tell us what the makeup of the
                 class is.  I bet you there's a bunch of whore chicks
                 dressed in nasty clothes and guys who shave the sides of
                 their heads but let their tops grow out really long,
                 wear their visors upside down and backwards, Tommy
                 Hilfiger shirts and stupid frat jackets, and baggy pants so
                 baggy that you need rubber bands, and drive stupid suped up
                 Honda Civics that don't do anything but scrape the ground
                 and vibrate
           \_ I once saw an MTV "News Report" saying that Tupac Shakur's
              death is the most important event in the 1990's. Now, if
              that isn't intelligent journalism then I don't know what
              is.  I once associated myself with the MTV generation.
              Now I'm just ashamed to even know about it. Unfortunately,
              half the dumbshits in this school think that the entire
              world revolves around (c)rap.
                \_ I'm not the world's biggest rap music fan, but how do
                   you get off saying something like this? it is the most
                   powerful influence in youth culture in America, with
                   the possible exception of religion.  So what do you
                   think the world revolves around? c++? Britney Spears?
                   William Faulkner?
                   \_ I didn't say it revolved around anything.  But in
                      a decade when we've seen Yitsak Rabin, Mark
                      McGuire, John Glenn, and many world leaders make
                      history, and massive world events like the Balkan
                      conflict how can you say the Tupac's death is
                      "the major historical turning point in the 1990's"?
                      \_ Mark McGuire? this is a joke, right? and what
                         kind of history has Glenn made this decade?
                         being an old man in the middle of a public
                         relations stunt?
                         \_ Oh yeah, and Tupac is something I want my
                            kids to remember about the 1990's.  In our
                            US History books twenty years later we'll
                            have "Tupac Shakur's death throws America
                            into turmoil" instead of "Mark McGuire makes
                            history".  I hate baseball more than anyone
                            else but I know what's historically
                            \_ How could you have missed the nationwide
                               riots that occurred as a result of Tupac
                               being shot?
                                \_ Riots because one black drug dealer was
                                   shot by another black drug dealer?
                \_ Take it or leave it, hiphop is an interesting social and
                   artistic phenomenon. I personally find it fascinating
                   that it provokes the extreme reactions in people that it
                   obviously does. You don't see people going out and
                   speaking out against the evils of broadcasting bubblegum
                   oldies or classical music, and the fact that gangsta rap
                   is both widely popular and widely reviled points out that
                   there are two widely-held and diametrically opposed
                   viewpoints on it; add in a flashy celebrity personality
                   such as Tupac, and you get something which could be the
                   makings of an excellent opportunity for bringing people who
                   were merely passive listeners or passively disgusted
                   together to talk. (I can't help but imagine that the above
                   poster, for one, will be in attendance in order to set
                   everyone straight. And of course I'm being wildly idealistic,
                   but if there's going to be any intellectual discussion of
                   ideas on this campus, it's not going to be in the stagnant
                   code farms of the EECS dep't.)
                   \_ Pfft.  As if there's going to be any serious intellectual
                      discussion of ideas within Ethnic Studies . . . I quickly
                      learned that the way to an A in my Ethnic Studies class
                      was to *never* debate the statements of my (communist-
                      lesbian-of-color) TA, but to merely absorb her spouting
                      and regurgitate it in my next essay or exam.  I sure
                      hope this ES98 is a DECal class . . .
                      \_ it's pretty sad but I think this is about the only
                         thing that I learned in my years at Cal -- just give
                         them what they want and nothing more
                   \_ Artistic?  Yeah right.  You want art and culture, try
                      listening to the Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel, Van
                      Morrison, Bob Dylan, Bob Marley, Dave Matthes, Barry
                      White, Mozart, swing, jazz, blues, whatever.  I admit,
                      even I listen to bubble gum shit too but at least I admit
                      that the crap I listen to on the radio is bubble gum.
                      Rap is exactly that - bubble gum, but with minorities
                      dressed in flashy clothing and singing to a variation
                      of the same tune.  It's bubble gum and it's not
                      something worth studying for artistic and cultural
                      reasons in an academic institution.
                      \_ we can't have a "colored" storming these ivory
                         towers now, can we?  what's more "bubble gum"
                         \_ I wasn't being racist.  I was just pointing
                            out how a lot or rap was.  How many rap
                            music out there is about someone's hatred
                            for white people.  By the way, I'm not white
                            myself neither is Bob Marley. ax may be a KKK
                            but I'm not.
                                \_ How did I get associated with the KKK?
                                   My last name is Spanish, for God's sake.
                                   Although I wouldn't mind getting under a
                                   white sheet with yer mom.  -ax
                         than just about all of paul mccartney's beatles'
                         \_ Most of modern day music has some form of
                            derivation of something that the Beatles did.
                            It may be bubble gum now since you've heard
                            much of it over and over in alternative music
                            but back then it was new material.
                         \_ There will truly be no peace and justice in
                            AmeriKKKa until bh stops talking about the damn
                            Beatles and becomes a Tupac fan instead!  Stop
                            this professorial racism!
                \_ you all speak like the decadent bourgeiouse larvae you
                   are.  The 3rd world cares not about your mtv or your
                   decadent ways.  The time will grow near.
                   \_ This was posted as a joke but the real joke was that,
                      during the three weeks I spent in West Africa last
                      year, the most common T-shirts I saw were Tupac shirts.
                      Most of the folks I asked had no idea who he was or that
                      he had been dead for a year. They just liked the shirts.
                      Probably distributed by the same source that flooded
                      West Africa with the Madonna decal that is on every
                      damned taxi in the country. -ulysses
                \_ I'm sure that Tupac Shakur played a pretty significant
                   role in the life of the woman he raped and sodomized.
                   Maybe the class will take a look at that aspect of
                   his life as well.
                   \_ Only one woman?  how small-time!
                     \_ one *conviction*
                   \_ She was just a footsoldier in the revolution.
        \_ HE'S DEAD, GET A LIFE!!!!
1999/8/23-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16378 Activity:low
8/23    Does clone() in Java clone every single private variables? What if
        the private variable is just a pointer to another class? will that
        get duplicated?
        \_ no, it doesn't do deep-copy.
        \_ Cloneable does really give any gaurantees.  It's one of the most
          useless interfaces in Core.  It's supposed to be for ease-of-use, but
          I think it's more trouble than it's worth.
1999/8/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW] UID:16325 Activity:moderate
8/16    The Computer Science Division is currently looking for T.A's for the
        following classes: CS 162, 164, 170, 180.
        Interested individuals should contact Mike Clancy
        ( and file an online application: (grads) (undergrads)
        \_ What is CS180?
           \_ it's the cogsci/computer science hippie class.  you don't
              want to deal with it.
                \_ uhh, no that is 188 you dumbass
                \_ sigh, please bother to read the schedule of classes, it's
                   probably changed much since you've been here.  Thanks.
1999/8/12-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:16300 Activity:nil
8/11    Openings for java programmers at Nextera Interactive in SF.
        See /csua/pub/jobs/NexteraInteractive.  --mgeis
1999/8/5-11/3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16259 Activity:nil
07/15 A Java SSH Client and S/Key Calculator are online at:
      <DEAD>www.csua/ssh<DEAD> and <DEAD>www.csua/skey<DEAD> respectively
1999/8/5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16252 Activity:very high
8/4     If Java has no pointer, how do I create a data structure of link
        list, btree, hash table+links, etc? Thanks.
        \_ Because sometimes pointer means more than "reference", and the
           posters below are being disingenuous or stupid (or both).
           Can I create a dangling reference in java?  Can I create a
           reference that causes a bus error or segv?  No.
           \_ You're calling Hilfinger stupid?  "Hashtable x;" x is
              a memory location to data structure on the heap or a null
              memory reference, hence the name "pointer".  You can
              play the name game all you want but they do the same thing.
              What special precations the JVM takes is no matter to the name.
        \_ There are two classes of variables in Java: the primitives (like
           boolean, int, float, double, long, char,...) and pointers to
           objects.  It's just that in Java there are no * and & like in C.
           All those symbols are implicit.  You cannot have data structures
           allocated on the procedure stack.  All Objects and things that
           derive it end up in the heap (dynamically allocated) while
           primitives and pointers are on the proc stack. --jeff
        \_ Objects.
         \_ java has refrences you dumbass
          \_ Quoting from Hilfinger: "Java has pointers no matter what those
             idiots at Sun want you to think."
1999/7/23 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16192 Activity:high
7/22    Can someone install java 2.0 on soda?
        \_ I'm sure someone can.
1999/7/20 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16164 Activity:nil
7/19    A bit dated but for all you Jar Jar fans out there (both of you):
1999/7/10-12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16103 Activity:nil
7/9     Someone was asking about Java 2.0 on linux.  This isn't a port but
        Sun is releasing the code for free download:
        \_ Java 2 != Java 2.0, Java 2 = Java 1.2 (from the same marketing
           wizards that renamed Solaris 2.7 to Solaris 7)
                \_ It's just an LSB-first version numbering as opposed
                   to an MSB-first version numbering, that's all! :-) -brg
1999/6/27-28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16024 Activity:insanely high
6/27    So who is kidding who?  Sun withdrew from ISO because
        it did not want ISO to control Java
        \_ Bottom line: Sun invented Java, Sun owns Java, end of story.
           \_ That's fine.  They shouldn't try to pretend it's some sort
              of standard then.  If they want it to be a standard, they
              need to play by the rules of the standards bodies.
              \_ Idiot. saying "it isn't a standard unless a 'standards body'
                 owns it", is like saying "It isn't software unless it
                 is copylefted".
              \_ What part of "they own it and can do whatever they
                 want with it" don't you understand.  It's called
                 intellectual property.  They invented it, they own
                 it, it's theirs.  If we didn't have this kind of system
                 there would be no incentive to create new things.
                                \_ that's nonsense.  "sub-optimal incentive
                                   according to mainstream economic models",
                                   sure.  "No incentive", no way.  There
                                   are all kinds of reasons to create new
                                   things without exclusive govt-backed
                                   IP rights in them; there's just an
                                   argument that it's more "socially optimal"
                                   to make up stuff like copyright, patents,
                 This isn't communism.
                        \_ ** Insert your bh-GNU-RMS comment here **
                          \_ At least RMS lives his beliefs.
                 \_ You didn't actually answer the previous person, who
                    merely said that Sun "shouldn't try to pretend it's
                    some sort of standard", which IS an impression that
                    their marketing has been conveying of late.  To be
                    more specific about what kind of standard we're talking
                    about: open industry standards developed through
                    standards bodies or technical working groups with
                    some kind of open participation, public comment, or
                    peer review.  Sure, Java is a Sun proprietary standard,
                    and it's cool, but it doesn't have the status of
                    something like TCP/IP or the SI.
        \_ Of course they withdrew.  Duh.  What point do you think you're
                \_ Java to die as fast as other proprietary technology.
                   \_ You mean like the way all the MS crap has done so
                      poorly as a proprietary system from top to bottom?
                      Has MS ever released a single line of code for
                      *anything*?  I want Open Bob.  I had some ideas for
                      MSBob improvements.
                        \_ MS Bob is dead!
1999/6/23-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16010 Activity:high
6/22    How come in Java, I can do the following:
                str = str + "Hello world";
        instead of
                str = new(str + "Hello world");
                \_ Because you are not telling the new keyword
                   what type of class to create. The + operator
                   has been overloaded so that you can cat strings
                \_ java doesn't support operator overload
        \_ It's actually a very simple modification of the parser grammar
           and a few additional AST (abstract syntax tree) nodes.  The two
           turn out identical code anyway and is was done simple because
           they can and makes it more convenient to use (though it makes
           the grammar syntax less consistent).
             \_ See the JLS under the section for java.lang.StringBuffer
            (20.13) for how they suggest you compile the string +
            operator; it's instructive even if you aren't writing a
            compiler. -brg
        \_ you mean "as well as", not "instead of".
           Why = because programmers are lazy, and sometimes stupid.
                \_ better short cut and work than longer and not works, stupid j
           \_ #F, programmers, especially those in the INDUSTRY, are
                always stupid. They always do short cut that work but
                are lousy implementations. Then they leave the company
                and the new hires get to debug their code. That is INDUSTRY
                        \_ shut up kchang.
                \_ This is a bit unfair.  Industry programmers have this thing
                   called a 'deadline'.  They're not stupid.  Apathetic and
                   under a lot of pressure is more like it.  No more stupid
                   than a 'non-industry' programmer whatever that's supposed
                   to mean.
                        \_ yeah, and grad students don't have deadlines
                           \_ "Professor?  I need a few more weeks."  "Ok."
                              "Boss?  I need a few more weeks."  "Tell me
                               again how much I pay you?"  Hardly the same.
                               Don't fool yourself into thinking academics
                               work as hard as industry folks.  I've done
                               both for a few years each and academic work is
                               like being on vacation in comparison.
                \_ Why is this a religious issue in the first place?
                Strings are treated in Java more like base types
                in the syntax even though they are instances of
                the String class because of the prevalence of
                Strings. One can think of them as char*. Versions
                of C++
        String templates offered this as an overloaded operator before
        there was Java. Anyway, if you don't like overloaded operators,
        don't use them. williamc
                \_ Why is this a religious issue in the first place? Strings are\
 treated in Java more like base types in the syntax even though they are instanc\
es of the String class because of the prevalence of Strings. One can think of th\
em as char*. Versions of C++

String templates offered this as an overloaded operator before there was Java. A\
nyway, if you don't like overloaded operators, don't use them. williamc
        \_ You could but you should use StringBuffer when doing
           string manipulations (i.e., StringBuffer.append()).
           JVM coverts String objects to StringBuffer objects when
           you perform a concatenation on two Strings and that slows
           your program down.
1999/6/23 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16009 Activity:nil
        Because we love Jar-Jar so much.
1999/6/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15979 Activity:low
6/17    Hi, I'm a loser with no social skills.  I'm always asking for advice
        on the motd on social or work situations.  What should I do?
        \_ hire a high-class hooker. She'll make a... Well, she'll help,
           \_ Any recommendations on a high-class hooker?

           /- uh huh.
         _ lifeless soda lusers suddenly became experts on real life.
        /  you people should stop talking what you learned from Ally MacBeal.
1999/6/17-20 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Consumer/PDA] UID:15978 Activity:kinda low
6/17    Palm Pilot V for sale.  Brand new, still in the box.  It has Sun's
        kJava installed on it, so you can develop limited Java apps
        and run them on it.  $350 obo.  Send email to peterl.
        \_ You picked this up at JavaOne for $200 didn't you?
        \_ You can get a brand new one for $200 at JavaOne.
           \_ Not everyone can get into JavaOne. I'll sell you mine for $275...
                \_ sign your name!
                \_ This is contrary to the BH Laws of Computer Hacking!  You
                   must provide the PP5 for free and then charge for phone
                   \_ People who can't be funny shouldn't make bh jokes.
1999/5/28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15891 Activity:nil
5/27    The key to finally killing Jar Jar?
        \_ It is obvious that Lucas does not like Java
1999/5/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15865 Activity:very high
5/23    Anyone had Fateman for 264 (or even 164)? How is he as a
        \_ I had him one of the times I took 164.  He's a smart guy
           but I didn't really jive with his teaching style.  When I
           took 264 under Savage Sue, I felt that I was getting a
           much much better experience.  -blojo
           \_ Seconded.  Sue Graham rules.
           \_ I had Sue Graham for 164 and thought she was really good.
              Why do people have horror stories about her?
              \_ Because she is boring.  And because she generously only
                 takes away 3% of your grade per hour (as opposed to the
                 usual 5%) when she finds out cochise died 3 hours before
                 the project deadline.  -- ilyas
                 \_ She isn't nearly as boring as most profs and though
                    yes she is though, she is at least fair, which is
                    yes she is tough, she is at least fair, which is
                    more than I can say about some others.
           \_ You don't want a smart teacher.  You want a good teacher.  IE:
              someone who can teach the material well.  There's nothing in any
              of those classes any of the profs teaching them shouldn't already
              know sufficiently.
        \_ I had him for 164 in Sp '92.  His lecture wasn't exciting,
           although he seemed smart.  I think he gave easy grades.  -- yuen
                \_ Easy grades are important (not being sarcastic).
                  \_ yah avoid a prof who gives easy grades.  His class
                     will probably teach you nothing.
                        \_ Yeah you should do what I did and take all the
                           really smart, hard grading profs, learn a lot, and
                           see your gpa drop a full point.  Good idea.  Tell
                           the corporate recruiter that your 2.8 from Cal is
                           the same as another Cal student's 3.8 or a Farmer's
                           4.0 beause you took really hard profs!  Yeah right.
                           \_ "We have a saying at Berkeley: 'If they want
                              to know your GPA you don't want to work for
                              them.'"  My advice is go to a few interviews
                              for jobs you don't want sometime when you
                              aren't obviously hungry to practice being
                              a bit cocky.  Sure some interviewers will
                              gag and not want you, but you didn't want
                              that job.  In the long run you will find
                              yourself doing more interesting work for
                              more pay.
                              \_ Yup.  That's exactly what I did.  Why?
                                 Because I didn't have the gpa for grad school.
                                 Thanks for the tip.
                                 \_ I gotta admit under a 3.0 is pretty
                                    sad.  (Which is what you need to get
                                    over the grad school cut)  Hell even
                                    I managed that.
                                    \_ You didn't take all the harder teachers
                                       like I did and learn as much as me.
                                       As I said before, take easy teachers,
                                       get a good gpa.  The rest is bullshit.
                                       Don't fall for the idealism crap about
                                       learning more.
                                       \_ oh i didn't realize you knew
                                          what classes I took.  Sorry.
                                          (As a matter of fact I tried to
                                          avoid the easy classes cause I was
                                          here to learn.  I'm just saying
                                          a 3.0 really isn't that hard to get,
                                          at least not if you consider yourself
                                          grad student material)
                                          \_ You wouldn't have a 3.0+ gpa if
                                             you took all the harder classes.
                                             Maybe you missed the basic
                                             concept that it *isn't* easy to
                                             get a B or higher in a hard
                                             class.  Or maybe Cal has just
                                             watered it down in recent years
                                             to keep the grade inflated
                                             self-esteem raised weeny kids
                                             of the Baby Boomers from going
                                             off the deep end and suiciding
                                             when they get less than a 4.0
                                             for the first time ever?
                       \_ Manuel Blum teaching 172 is a counterexample.
                          He is a very easy grader.  I probably learned
                          more in his class than in any other undergrad class.
                          -- ilyas
        \_ he's great if you get misty-eyed over Algol 60 stories
1999/5/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Recreation/Media] UID:15863 Activity:high
5/24    The Phantom Menace rocks!  I don't know what the critics wer
        complaining about.
        \_ So, tell me what you like about it.  I saw it and was disappointed.
           \_ The action sequences were excellent.  We got to see a
              glimpse of the old republic.  The actors were convincing
              IMO.  Yes, the plot is pretty simple, but I thought it
              sets up Eps. 2-6 very well.
              \_ I thought the plot was slow.  At times, I was yawning.
                 Yes, it does setup Eps 2-6 very well.  I am looking forward
                 to watching Eps 2 & 3 already.  Overall, I didn't think
                 it deserves all that hype and I was disappointed with the
                 plot and special effects.
        \_  i think what it comes down to is this: there is alot wrong with
             that movie, but there is nothing wrong with it thats not wrong
             with the other three either, and i like the other three, so i
             like this one.  for people our age, dissapointment is inevitable
             since that kind of movie is just more fun when you're five.
             \_ Yup, the other three were far from perfect (ESB coming
                closest). And they mostly appealed to kids (esp. ROTJ), which
                Lucas has stated over & over again is his primary audience.
                We're all 20 yrs older now. Of course it wouldn't have the
                same appeal to us.
        \_ i agree, it rewled.. the only part i didn't like was that C3PO
           was created by him (don't want to give away too much), but the
           rest was great., sword fight scenes great, characters appropriate.
           critics don't really know what the force is about..
           \_ "critics don't really know what the fouce is about"... HELLO??!?
              THERE IS NO 'FORCE'!  It's a MOVIE!  This isn't religion!  There
              is no God!
              \_ I find your lack of faith disturbing.
        \_ DEATH TO JAR-JAR^H^H^H^H^H^H^HEWOKS! --jon
           \_ Better yet, Jar Jar Ebonics
1999/5/20-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Languages/JavaScript] UID:15846 Activity:kinda low
5/19    Full time entry level javascript programmer opening at San Fransisco
        e-commerce startup; senior level openings too.  Email for info --phr.
        \_ class Fool { static { System.err.println("I hate Java"); } }
           \_ Javascript, not Java.  It's even lamer.
1999/5/18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15832 Activity:insanely high
5/17    I've been asked the following question in an interview.  What
        should I have said?
                "Name 3 things you don't like about Java"
                \_ It's slow.
                        \_ this is no longer true.  See "HotSpot" JVM
                           for details.                 -brain
                \_ It doesn't have pointers.
                   \_ you're an idiot. almost everything is pointers
                \_ It is not C++
                   \_ that's a plus, moron.
        \_ 1. Doesn't have proper closures; 2. Doesn't have parametric types;
           3. Really crappy development environments (except VA Java),
            because you can't support incremental compilation without
            seriously hacking the VM.
            \_ Inner classes are semantically equivelent to slightly
               restricted closures (with ugly syntax).  My answers would be
               a)  A dismal compilation model which takes a language which
                   is the correct compromise between performance and usability
        \_ Real Men (tm) don't write code.  Much less answer stupid questions
           about Java.
                   and makes it run like a slug.
                        walls "asian chic".  (At least real men like
                        kchang who don't know the difference between
                        chic and chick.)
               b)  A bytecode which is an exercise in poor design, which
                   further degrades performance and makes it really hard
                   to analyze.
               c)  Some REALLY REALLY ugly syntax when higher order
                   operations are desired.  -nweaver
        \_ Caffeine is bad for you, it tastes bad, and it's snobby
        \_ There's no way to be sure that resources (not just memory)
           have been given back when an object should be garbage
           collected (i.e. when you set ptr = 0).
           \_ I believe that there is a finalization mechanism when
              objects are garbage collected.
              \_ That's right, but you never know when this method will
                 be called.
           \_ does java have weak pointers these days?
        \_ Real Men (tm) don't write code.  Much less answer stupid
           questions about Java.
                \_ Real Men(TM) write filters that beep whenever anyone
                   walls "asian chic".  (At least real men like kchang
                   who don't know the difference between chic and
                   \_ Real Men (tm) != kchang. 'nuff said.
1999/3/31-4/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15672 Activity:insanely high
3/30    Can someone name the 7 Wonders of the World?
        \_C++,Java,Pascal,Cobol,Smalltalk,VB,Fortran _
          \_No way man. Cobol and VB don't deserve to be in the same list as
            C++ and Java.
                \_ Java?  What a joke!
                \_ Java, nice toy, don't leave your browser with it.
            \_ It's a wonder Cobol still exists...
                \_ There's more cobol out there than C, C++, and Java
                   combined.  Next time do a little research before sticking
                   your huge foot in your gaping mouth.  Have you ever even
                   *seen* any cobol?  Could you identify a cobol program if
                   it was clearly labelled, "COBOL CODE FOR RUNNING YOUR
                   BANK" at the top and bottom of every page?
                   \_ I challenge you to back up that statement.  More
                      Windows applications have been written in the last 10 years
                      than all the years before combined.
         \ Colossus of Rhodes, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Pyramids of Giza,
           Lighthouse of Alexandria, Hanging gardens of Babylon,
           Temple to Zeus, and library of alexandria.  I think.
           \_ Are any of these still standing/impressive to visit?
              \_ Just the pyramids
           \_ What was the question, 7 natural wonders or 7 historical wonders??
                 has historical & natural & others.
           \_ I thought the Great Wall in China was one of them.  No?
            \_ Someone has been playing a bit too much Civ.  Yes? -- ilyas
        \_ Sleepy, Happy, Dopey, Bashful,...can't name the other 3.
           \_ Sneezy, Grumpy, and Doc, I'm pretty sure.
        \_ Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
        \_ I'll show you seven... inches!!
                \_ That's it?
                   \_ Sorry, didn't clarify. I meant flacid.
                        \_ My clit is bigger than that you little girl!
1999/3/30-4/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15663 Activity:high
3/30    I don't know what it is with Haas people and web stuff, but if you're
        interested in that sort of thing, /csua/pub/recruiting/pacfirm.sp99
        \_ http://soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU% less /csua/pub/recruiting/pacfirm.sp99
           /csua/pub/recruiting/pacfirm.sp99: Permission denied
                \_ oops, sorry, fixed -brg
        \_ Cuz Haas people are a bunch of twinks.
           \_ Why, just because they think computer science is all about
              how to make web pages?
              \_ It <B>isn't</B>?
        \_ As a CS graduate and Business minor, I have to say that Haas is
        vastly over-rated, and the school has cultivated a culture that
        everyone from Haas looks similiar, think they knew more than
        anybody else, no team work, etc.
           \_ do you think it's different at other (big name) b schools?
           \_ if you think in cs, those teacher's pets who answer
              every single question in class are annoying, wait till
              you take an MIS class with business ppl.  Some of the
              students have absolutely no idea what they are talking about,
              especially when it comes to technical stuff.  But a lot
              of them are usually the first grab the spot light.
              But then again, it's not how much you know, it's
              how much others think you know, sad eh?
              \_ There _are_ times when you're better saying nothing.  The
                 problem is these people don't know when that time has arrived
                 are often end up hurting themselves.  Ever see a Prof tell a
                 one of those pests to shut up?  I have.  It was a very
                 satisfying experience.  Poor thing... she looked crushed.
                 And yes, I did get a higher final grade despite saying
                 nothing in class all semester.  Loud mouths beware.
                 \_ grades != real life.  Business people are learning a valuable
                    skill by being able to talk like an expert on subject
                    they have absolutely no idea about.  Those people get ahead.
                    \_ second that.  Another point: class participation is
                        a big deal.  Business is all about relationships, if
                        you shut up in class and nobody knows you, you're not
                        making much connections.  It's ok in CS, but won't
                        work in business.
1999/2/16-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:15417 Activity:low
2/15    Anyone know anything about JDK-1.2 (a.k.a. Java 2) under Linux?  Sun
        made a press release in November claiming they were releasing it "next
        week" but I see neither hide or hair of it since then, just a pointer
        to who claim they'll give an update on how it's going
        when they get around to it..   --dbushong
        \_ What I'm curious about it why Sun doesn't just take the Solaris
           javac source code and port it over to Linux and FreeBSD straight
           rather than licensing it to blackdown.
                \_ Control, baby, control!  He would wields the source, holds
                   the power!  What would happen to M$ if they released
                   Windows' source?  (other than getting laughed at by
                   millions of hackers)
                       \_ It takes a monopoly of billions to hold us back
                   \_ Uh, if Sun ported javac straight to Linux and FreeBSD
                      they wouldn't be releasing the source to anyone.
                        \_ Hard/software sales, baby, sales!
                \_ probably because Sun doesn't want to maintain Linux code,
                   since it's not their OS.  Plus when they license out
                   Java the licensee gets source to modify.  Then they pay Sun.
                \_ javac is written in Java. You probably meant JVM
1999/2/12-13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:15403 Activity:high
2/12    Most people in the industry are content at the fact that they are
        1)in a prestigious corporation 2)pays well 3) good benefits.
        How PATHETIC.
        \_ pathetic attempt @@ flame bait (though I guess that means I
           fell for it)
        \_ beats working for a lowly company that pays terribly with no
        \_ You're right. We should strike for daily blow jobs.
           \_ If they hire outside people, yes. I wouldn't want a blowjob
              from anyone that works at my company.
        \_ I'll join the bait eaters: Uhm, gee, I think you just posted 3 of
           the 4 reasons for working anywhere.  You had some other reason one
           might work in industry that you think isn't pathetic?  Or you'd
           only have respect if _everyone_ went on to get PhDs?  Then CS would
           be a purely academic field and no one would own anything with a
           chip in it because chips wouldn't exist outside a lab.  And who
           pays all these super geniuses to do pure research forever?  Sigh...
           Feeling bad that your cop-out friends all drive expensive cars and
           can afford to eat better than rice every other night while you're
           kissing your Prof's fat pot sticker filled ass everyday?  Bitter
           yet?  And how about those of us in industry making those big bucks
           who never even took a CS class?  hehe...
           \_ True, but people who usually go into a high tech job for the
              big bucks usually ends up producing worthless junk, copying
              other people's ideas, suing other people because they can't
              come up with their own ideas, making faulty products, or
              going along with the fad whatever it may be that day.  People
              who don't take academic seriously are usually the uncreative
              types.  Plus, if it weren't for the PhDs like Dave Patterson,
              Ken Thompson, John Hennessy, and so forth we wouldn't have
              things like RISC chips, chips that pipeline, superscalar and
              vector processors, time shared multithreaded multiprocessing
              operating systems, and so on.  So if you think the academic
              world is so bad why don't you just skip college, go straight
              into your 'computer programming' company and tell your
              employer how much you hate PhDs and universities that do
              research in electrical engineering and computer science.
1998/11/18-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14970 Activity:high
11/17   Sun wins lawsuit
        \_ I'm sure M$ will appeal.  It isn't done yet but it _is_ looking bad
        for M$.
        \_ So what!  Java is still hella slow to do anything useful.
                \_ your Java fu is weak, grasshopper.  Use a JIT.
                \_ useful like say CORBA?
        \_ Good for Microsoft.  Good for Java.  Good for programmers. -jctwu
        \_ Wrong.  Sun won the injunction.  The lawsuit is still in
           progress.  Though it looks like they'll win the suit as well.
        \_ Go bears
                \_ Go Tree!
                  \_kill the tree!!!
1998/11/9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:14935 Activity:nil
11/09   Hey if any of yous is bored, why not head on over to:
        It's a real short 3 min. online quiz that i need participants for
        for my psych2 class.  oh yeah-i guess one lucky winner gets a new
        unopened hed(pe) cd (i think it's funk/punk/rap) colubiahouse
        accidently sent me.  Thanks!
        \_ psych 2 eh..that was probably the 2nd easiest class i've ever
           taken at berkeley next to 61c.  interesting class though, and
           a good breath class to take. highly recommended.  sorry, but
           i hate rap.
        \_ I think this is a scam to get your email address.
        \_ you don't have to put yer email--it's just if you want to win
           crappy cd. i swear on my abysmal GPA i won't pimp your email
1998/9/29-30 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14697 Activity:very high
9/29    available now:  java jdk 1.1.7.
        \_ When will it ever end?!  Stop the madness...
                \_ Death to JAVA!  Up with ActiveX!
                                                \_ already dead it is
                \_ I love ActiveX.  I love erasing Harddrives and emailing
                  Quicken files to random sites on the internet.
                  other people's that is.  Ah, sweet security model...
                  \_ Fuck that noise.  You hear a lot more about Java holes
                     than ActiveX problems.  Fuck Sun and their crummy Java.
                        \_ you can't use ActiveX to develop reliable
                                distributed applications.  DCOM bites..
                                \_ ActiveX runs on all platforms worth
                                developing on.
                        \_ I don't think you've even used Java
                                \_ "Yes I have. No you haven't. Yes I have".
                                Don't bother unless you have something to add.
                        \_ it's not noise.  Despite its problems, there
                           aren't any major security holes in Java.
                                \_ Major?  Oh please.  If Java was so perfect
                                why is anyone using anything else?  Java is
                                dead.  Still born.
        \_ it will never end.  JDK 1.2 has CORBA.  Woo hoo!
                \_ CORBA iz da bomb
                        \_ Yeah, a "logic bomb"...
                \_ Still, it's f**king slow.
        \_ I should send you a Perl magnetic poetry kit.  -- tmonroe
1998/9/26-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14680 Activity:high
9/26    Does anyone know where on the web I can get source information for
        CS264 (Graham's graduate PL class) this semester, especially a
        sylabus and what the class is covering?  The department web page
        seems lacking. - seidl
        \_ I took 264 and 265.  They're good classes... about half of
           264 dealt with basic compiler mechanics, kind of like 164,
           but faster and more intelligently.  The rest of 264, and
           all about 265, was about optimization and code manipulation.
           Very good stuff.  (This was with Graham that I took them,
           maybe 4-5 years ago... who knows if the classes have
           changed though.)   -- blojo
           \_ My trouble is Jon, that Oct 8th I'm supposed to be giving
           \_ My trouble is that Oct 8th I'm supposed to be giving
              what I'm supposed to cover.  I know I'm going to talk about
              the lecture in the class, and I have very little idea of
              what I'm supposed to cover (or even what room the class is in).
              I know I'm going to talk about
              my research some, and our ASPLOS paper, but as for the rest,
              I'm not sure what to cover. - seidl
                \_ If you are too stupid to mail Sue Graham, I can only
                   conclude this lecture will be lame or you are trying to
                   show off.  And that isn't an exclusive or.
                   \_ If you dont spend anytime in the CS department,
                      I can all of a sudden understand how you think
                      getting a hold of Sue Graham is as easy as sending
                      her mail of any sort.  And Matt Seidl hardly needs
                      to show off. --Jon

                      \_ simpering lapdog!
                  \_ Mailed her and no response.  I'll poke her again, but
                        \_ *I* wouldn't pole her.  Not my type.
                     Since I'm head out to eh BA on Wednesday, I kinda
                     need info ASAP. - seidl
              \_ In terms of outside lectures, I remember them being
                 pretty free-wheeling.  Just talk about what interests
                 you most about your current work.  The class is full
                 of smart people, so they'll get a lot of it, and what
                 they won't get is still okay, because a lot of the
                 class is like that.  -- blojo
        \_ unless she overhauled it in the past year or so, it's mostly
           a drawn out recount of lexing&parsing through her heyday
           all the way to about 1981.  in the next few weeks the people
           who are still breathing will hear about runtime systems (though
           the survivors probably already poked around on their own to
           fend off boredom). as said above, talk about your stuff
           and don't worry too much about staying within her trajectory.
           the students will be thankful.
        \_ seidl needs to be sodomized
                \_ He was.  It was a good one.  Buy the "I raped Matt Seidl"
                   video for $19.95.
1998/9/25-26 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:14671 Activity:moderate
        Quicken down, 1 less reason to use non-UNIX many more to go?
        \_ Linux is pretty good for java apps because it has native
           processor support (kaffe) that no othe os's have.
           \_ what are you talking about, "native processor support"?
           That would normally mean "the processor natively supports java",
           which is obviously false. Do you mean "JIT compilation"?
           kaffe does that on lots of platforms.
           Do you mean "compiles to actual executables"? The kaffe web pages
           don't say it can do that, and I don't think it can.
                \_ there are java->native cpu compilers for other OS'es though
                        linux loses
                   \_ yah. What kaffe wins on will be its new awt
                       implementation. That is, when it actually works.
                       (it will run on DOS, though. wow.
           Do you mean "you can type the name of a java class, and it runs"?
           So WHAT?
           \_ From the RH linux package description on kaffe:
                "This is Kaffe, a virtula machine design to execute Java
                bytecode.  This machine can be configured in two modes.
                In one it operates as a pure bytecode interpreter (not
                unlike Javasoft's machine); in the second mode it performs
                "just-in-time" code conversion from the abstract code to
                the host machine's native code.  This will ultimately
                allow execution of Java code at the same spped as standard
                compiled code but while maintaining the advantages and
                flexibility of code independence."
                -RH linux installation guide
                \_ Note#1: linux was one of the LAST packages to get a JIT
                   compiler, compared to other major platforms
                   Note #2: THIS DOES NOT  "allow execution ... at same speed"
                   because real C code gets better optimization from the
                   compiler. And incidentaly, kaffe supports JIT on linux,
                   solaris, and a few other platforms. This is NOT
                   linux-specific in any way, shape or form.
            \_short summary: the above linux bigot is an idiot who wouldn't
                know a java compiler from a hole in his head
        \_ this looks kinda neat :)
1998/9/15-16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14601 Activity:high
9/15    I'm trying to teach a barrel of monkeys how to program in Java.
        Anyone know a good advanced programming book based on Java?  These
        are your average monkeys and won't tolerate a slow class.
        \_ "barrel of monkeys"?
                \_ Yes.  Are you FOB?
                                        \_ I am kick ass like gang member!
                                        \_ I drive Honda Acura!
                                        \_ Black slippers, white socks,
                                           black baggy pants, purple satin
                                           shirt buttoned at collar, 3
                                           cans hair gel, Honda Acura!
                                                \_ No, Nike Slippers and
                                                   socks, DKNY pants,
                                                   Calvin shirt, Polo hat.
                                           \_ settle down, john
                                           \_ kchang lives!!!!
                                 \_ Doesn't "FOB" mean Friend of Bill???
                                        \_ Only if you're FOB or talking
                                           about the chinese donations
1998/9/15-16 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14599 Activity:high
9/15    Anyone know a good introductory programming book based on Java?
        My high school CS teacher had a bunch of newbie programmers
        stuck in her intermediate Java class, and she's at her wit's end
        trying to find good materials suitable for beginners. Thx. -anirvan
        \_ Arnold & Gosling - The Java Programming Language.  I thought it
           was pretty good.  You can't get much simpler than that.  It's
           also the official book on java.  If they're HS students make
           them suffer and teach them scheme.
        \_ Just give them the grade they earn.

        I asked before - How can I run afterstep on the EECS Instructional
        computers, *without* installing the package etc...? I tried every
        suggestion in the previous answers, but they didn't work on the
        EECS computers, nor on Soda. Any ideas? Thanks, - noah
        \_ there is no AS on eecs instructional.  There is WindowMaker on
           the Solaris machines which comes very close to AS (i actually
           think it looks a bit nicer).  It's a pain in the ass to install
and it
           won't always work on the first try so you have to play around a
           little.  The install scripts are at /usr/sww/GNUstep/bin/ I
           think it's called wmaker.inst but read the README).  good luck
        \_ There is no AS on soda either, but it's in ports, so mail root@soda
                and ask them to install it.
        \_ /home/tmp is your friend.
            \_ that's one of the most unreadable and unhelpful books on the
               market.  it's OK as a reference, don't try to learn from it.
                \_ I concur.  While The Red Book and The Gray Book
                   literally define The Java Platform, it's more useful as
                   an implementor's
                   guide than as a teaching aid.  I would recommend the
                   Tiger book (ORA's
                   Java in a Nutshell).  -java stud
        \_ Just give them the grade they earn.  HS Java is worthless anyway.
           HS'ers are too stupid to learn anything anyway, why bother?
           \_ I beg to differ. I learned Pascal/C in high school, and it
              helped give a good head start in cs60B.
                \_ Then you had a worthless 60b class.  Who taught?
                        \_ 60B used to include teaching C, so why is it
                           so hard to believe learning C in advance was
                           a head start?
                           \_ Like a few of my partners who thought they
                              knew everything until they didn't?
                        \_ Maybe he just had a good HS teacher.  Such things
                           are rumored to exist (like when BH taught HS).
                           \_ A myth.  I refuse to believe this.
                                \_ good HS teachers, or BH->HS?
                                        \_ The former.  The latter isn't of
                                           any interest but I recall him
                                           saying something about it once.
                                                \_ jove was written by one of
                                                        BH's HS students.
                                                \_ you can read about bh
                                                   teaching hs on www.cs/~bh
        \_ "Thinking In Java" is suppose to be good. You can download the
           online version for free:
1998/8/14 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14461 Activity:high
8/14    Has anyone else had problems using float in Java? i.e.
        calculation on big numbers is way off?
        \_ Check out the research project known as "Borneo" if you need
           Java + IEEE floats. It's run by the master of IEEE floats himself.
        \_ Java is believed to not implement fp correctly.  I believe the
           most recent version has fixed this but I'm not sure.  Ask your
           61b prof.  I think the've eliminated the 2 implicit guard and
           round bits because it is a hardware implementation. ?
           \_ I believe that this was one of the problems "fixed" by
              sun in 1.1.6.  At least I don't notice math calculations
              screwing up anymore.
1998/7/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14377 Activity:nil
1998/6/29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14270 Activity:high
6/29    Can somebody point me to an example of how to call
        an external program in Java?  Thanks.
        \_ Use JNI, the Java Native Inteface.
1998/5/11-13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14080 Activity:moderate
5/11    How does one make servlet with jdk1.2 beta work with Apache
        1.2.x w/o any third party support or jserv from the Java-Apache
        project?  I've got the patch for mod_servlet.c, which, according
        to the documentation, should be distributed as part of the JSDK
        which is shipped with jdk1.2 beta.  But I can't find this file
        in my jdk1.2 beta I missing something?  Should
        I download the JSDK seperately?
        \_ No it doesn't say that at all.  You might want to re-read it again
           at  Basically the mod_servlet requires JSDK but
           you have get it either from JDK 1.2, or you down it as a separate
           package.  Btw, the latest version of JSDK is 2.0 now.  -- cm1ee
        \_ you can only use servlet with sun's java server or w3's jigsaw
           \_ Not true anymore.  There are now at least a dozen HTTP servers
             that supports the Servlet interface. See
           \_ That's not what Sun claims.
        \_ a "servlet" implies that the server has implemented the Servlet API
                framework. Now figure the rest out.
           \_ You meant a "servlet-enable httpd", Mr. Trying-to-be-smart.
        \_ Why the fuck don't you want to use jserv, idiot?
1998/5/8 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:14071 Activity:high
5/8     What's the difference between a compiled language and an
        interpreted language?  Advantages of each?
        \_ interpreted programs are executed by yet another program
        (usually a compiled one) and compiled programs are completly
        executed by the computer hardware (the binary is just a bunch of
        machine language instructions that the processor can understand.
        Compiled programs tend to be faster because of less overhead while
        interpreted programs tend to be more portable.  Then there are the
        compiled interpeted languages like java that have both the speed
        and portability advantage.
            \_ What do you mean Java is compiled interpreted?
                \_ Java is normally compiled into JVM bytecode, which is
                   interpreted on machines that don't run on Java processors
                   (i.e. 99.999% of computers that run Java) - it gives
                   portability with a speed tradeoff.
        \_ Any language can be compiled or interpreted, including java.  -tom
        \_ God, please take cs164. This thread could go on forever.
1998/4/21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:13991 Activity:nil
4/20    If you want to work for ATDP helping to teach Java, HTML, and
        JavaScript to high-school kids, look at /csua/pub/jobs/ATDP.Su98
1998/4/21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13989 Activity:nil
4/20    May all the gays, lesbians, and Java haters come out of your shell!
        |_ <DEAD><DEAD>e out of your shell
1998/4/10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:13930 Activity:nil 60%like:14178
4/9     What's the difference between a programmer and a software engineer?
        \_ programming is a specialization of engineering. A programmer, like
           any engineer, CREATE things (programs) that IMPROVE the mankind.
           However, an engineer doesn't necessarily know how to program.
        \_ programmers write code, software engineers design it
           \_ so software engineer never code, and programmers never design?
              take a rhetoric class!
        \_ software engineers can make their code run even in hostile
           environments (crappy hardware, limited memory, buggy compilers,
           tethered debuggers that make gdb look high-tech, and so on)
        \_ Hiearchy is this:
                -software engineer
1998/4/8 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:13917 Activity:high
4/7     Is it just me or does Netscape 4.x have problems running Java on
        Windows NT 4.0?  -- disgruntled windoze slave
        \_ See the following MS Knowledge Base article for a fix:
           -slow (the same problem afflicts IE3 & Netscape)
        \_ and no, i cannot switch to another OS.
           \_ HAHAHAAHAHA -evil clown
           \_ however, you CAN switch to another implementation of java.
           download JDK 1.1 support.
1998/3/19-20 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13842 Activity:nil
3/20    Java development job available from Tom Sawyer Software right here at
        Berkeley. Sent email to for detail.
        \_ do you get to "teach classes on advanced java" for huge fees,
           and have the "students" paint your fence for you?
1998/3/17-18 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13821 Activity:kinda low
3/17    The java front is cracking!
        \_ it's not cracking; this has always been happening.
                JNDI was excluded from core because it wasn't ready yet.
                And once again Micro$oft lies; Enterprise Java is coming out
                in JDK 1.2 with CORBA.
           \_ *squish* Microsoft *squash*! *squish*
              "help me I'm a small co. or standard!"
1998/3/13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13797 Activity:nil
3/12    I'm a very non-technical person, please don't flame this thread:
        How does Java directly improve our lives right now? I've seen a lot
        of commercials and ads, but being a very non-technical person, I have
        no idea how it makes our lives better.
        \_ It doesn't, it's just some Sun marketting hype that is making a lot
           of people who use Java miserable.
        \_ Java made Nick Weaver the handsome sexual dynamo he is today!
1998/3/10-11 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13787 Activity:very high
3/10    Wired Digital giving a free tutorial on Advanced Java Scripting
        from 3 - 7 PM today. 660 Third Street, San Francisco.  -ausman
        \_ Is it me, or does "Java Scripting" seem just a LITTLE
           too buzzwordish?  -nweaver
           \_ It's you.
           \_ 1T S0UNDZ PR3TTY ___ W1R3D ___ 2 M3, D00D!!!1!!!1!!
              M3BB3 U R JUST 2 UN-H1P -- U N33D 2 B3 0N3 UV TH3 TECHN0L0G1CAL
              N3W-WAV3 3L33T3 2 UND3RSTAND.  G0 BAK 2 UR PDP-IO, D00D.  TH3
              FUTUR HAZ ALR3ADY PASS3D U BY . . .
1998/2/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Startup] UID:13731 Activity:high
2/23    Class action suits are the best thing in the world. When I sent in
        Iomega for a $50 rebate by sending in an original receipt, original
        UPC label, and the application, I got a mail back saying that I did
        not enclose the UPC label nor the original receipt. I was perplexed.
        Then after a year, they sent me a mail saying "Class action suit--
        a whole bunch of people didn't get what they were supposed to, and
        if you were one of them, sign here, and we'll try to resolve this case"
        Class action suits are good.
        \_ Iomega is cheap, they thought they could get away... H AH AHA
        \_ Do not sign anything without consulting your lawyers
           \_ Say what?  It's a $50 rebate on a $99 device.  How much is
              the consultation going to cost?  Don't be stupid.
        \_ May Iomega burn in hell.  Iomega management made $11 million
           in January by exercising their options and subsequently, the stock
           tanked when management finally revealed bad news.
           \_ That's against insider trading policy, isn't it?  -- yuen
                \_ Not really.  It's very difficult to prove especially
                   on something like earnings data which can be interpreted
                   in different ways (e.g. a company showing record profits
                   might see its stock fall if earnings were not as high
                   as "analysts' forecasts").  Management would get in
                   trouble though if they purchased shares of stock knowing
                   that the company was going to be taken over next week and
                   that the buyer's price/share was higher than what
                   they were paying for it.  --wft
1998/2/10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13654 Activity:nil
2/10    Four years ago Sun had a commercial blitz on Java, and everyone flocked
        to it (we're not even going to discuss how Java is failing miserably
        right now). Now, four years later, Sun has a commercial blitz on
        Network Computing, and now everyone is going to flock to it (we're not
        even going to discuss how NC is going to fail). Sun is STUPID.
        \_ Twue, but they are finally putting out PCI-based workstations.
                \_ Oooohhh Ahhhh they're going to finally replace every single
                   PC in the entire universe with this awsomely c00l PCI shit
                   that PC had long time ago! BABY!!! SUN RUL3Z MAN!!!!!!
        \_ Sun is full of smart Phds who make wonderful gadgets but don't know
           anything about selling their products. Microsoft is full of dumb ass
           college dropouts who make horrible gadgets but are superior at
           selling their products. Go figure.
1998/2/3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13610 Activity:very high
2/2     How many people are really fed up with sites that used to be very
        cool, but now are full jammed with a lot of non-sense Java shit and
        fancy-shmancy graphics that makes loading the page forever and halts
        the web server like hell?
        \_ I like having slow loads for zero content.
           \_ There's a campaign against slow sites. See:
              \_ Doesn't anyone see the irony here, having a campaign
                 against slow sites on GEOCITIES?
                 \_ Free expression of the membership.
        \_ Just say no to Java!!! It is just some overhyped shit that's making
           web browsing a pain in the rear end. We don't want to deal with
           technology of the future, we want to deal with technology of
           TODAY. Fuck Java and all the hype that came with it.
                \_ Fuck java, activex, animated GIFs and all other zero
                   content, slow load bullshit.
                \_ you say "fuck java" but "rear end"?
                \_ YEAH! Microsoft has their WebTV, Active stuff,  etc etc,
                   and as sucky and evil as they may be, they work, and are
                   helping millions of people. Now, name ONE thing benefited
                   from Java... can you? I can't say any, except a lot of
                   frustration from Java developers and managers. Yeah, write
                   once, debug everywhere. Lame ass Sun. I hope their stock
                   plunge to hell, cuz I'm out of job cuz of them.
                                        -former netscrape java developer
1998/1/19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:13522 Activity:high 50%like:13841
1/17    Can someone please recommend a good Java book?
        \_ Java in a Nutshell.
        \_ Just Java
1997/4/1 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:32122 Activity:nil
3/31    Java JDK 1.1.1 is now available from JavaSoft.  -- cmlee
         \_ It was available a while ago dork. It is still in
            final beta version.
            \_ This bug-fix release came out on 3/29.  -- cmlee
           \_ Great.  Is it still really dumb ass slow?
         \_ no.  they redid a bit in assembler so now it's only
          sorta dumb ass slow.  (But still faster than
          MS Visual Basic, which proves idiots don't care
          about speed.)
          \_ HOw can you tell that it's faster than VB?
           \_ By writing programs to do the same thing
              in both and timing them.  It's called
              "benchmarking" - perhaps you've heard of it?
              (For fairness, VB is still much faster to
        write for newbies than java, which somewhat
        excuses it's slowness.)
1996/10/28 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:31964 Activity:nil
10/26   Hi all.  I'd like to solicitate your valuable opinion and interest
        on whether or not we should attempt to obtain Java sources from
        Sun under an educational-use license agreement.  I have dl'ed and
        placed a copy of the agreement in ~cmlee/pub/java for your perusal.
        The source is to be used for porting it to soda's Dynix platform.
        But a secondary benefit would be for CSUA members to gain first-hand
        knowledge to how Java is implemented and such.  -- cmlee
        \_ Sure..why not...  it'll give us something to play with...
        \_ Hell ya!  There is no better man page than the source. --ari
        \_ Port to Ultrix too while you're at it, and you'll have several
         CS dept. professors loving the CSUA once they can run it
         on EECS instructional computers.
         \_ Forget Ultrix - MKLinux!
1996/2/12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:31819 Activity:nil
2/9     I'm planning on going to some java caves on the third weekend of
        February.  If you're interested in going, please either mail me or
        add yourself to the contagious mailing list.  You can also read
        ~raytrace/lava-cave-info for more information. -raytrace
2018/12/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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