Entry 20273 (Berkeley CSUA MOTD)

Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 20273

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2025/05/29 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

5/29

2001/1/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:20273 Activity:high

1/8     http://www.salon.com/tech/col/garf/2001/01/08/bad_java/index.html
        \_ most of his complaints are not Java-specific.  He's a bigot.
        \_ I'm confused.  How did Salon end up with a good article online?
                \_ it's not so good.  The author is a M$ bigot and doesn't
                   address the large Linux solution space that uses Java
                   on the server side.  See also apache/tomcat.
                        \_ Do you have any clue who the author is?
                         Ever see a copy of O'Reilley's Unix Security Handbook?
                         Try doing a search for him on Amazon before labeling
                         him an ignorant M$ bigot.
        \_ I would believe the "compiled vs. interpreted" argument more
           if everyone agreed Perl was slow.
           \_ Perl is *dog* slow.  No one uses Perl for speed of execution.
              People use Perl for speed of development and _usually_ easily
           \_ What is TTM?
              modified code.  -Paid to Perl
           \_ Perl is painfully slow for any of the many complex tasks it
              wasn't designed for.  For string manipultion and the like,
              yes it is pretty damn blazing, but for, for instance, general
              math it sucks crustry ass.
              \_ Using perl will help you learn regex a lot easier.  But
                 once you know how regex works, it's easy to start using
                 regex package in c.
                 \_ of course that would be missing the point.  If what you
                    want to do is string manipulation use perl.  It will be
                    fast, the code will be quick to write and relativly bug
                    free in a much shorter time frame.  Regexp package or
                    not C is not a language thatm akes strings easy to
                    muck with.
        \_ Java sucks for clients. A large percentage of Java programmers
           already accept this (it sucks for so many reasons), but Java is
           the de-facto standard for eCommerce sites and many other server
           software companies because you gain in TTM and OO-ness. Also,
           it's good for things like build scripts that need to be cross
           platform (which is one of many uses of Java at Oracle).
           \_ What is TTM?  Never heard of it.  Is it important?
              \_ time to market.
           \_ Bullshit.  OO-ness is and of itself has no value.  Stop the hype!
              TTM?  Again, bullshit.  You want TTM?  Hire competent coders, not
              Java coders.  I'll take five experienced C coders over your five
              Java-is-OO-TTM-kewl-but-never-did-C kids for my project anyday.
              Out here in the world, we want things to work and hit milestones,
              we don't care that BH thinks OO is "way kewl!".
           \_ java as a language is GREAT for clients. The problem is that
              the runtimes are rather lacking. eg: no-one told these
              VM writers how to optimize for RAM usage.
                \_ maybe if there was more money in writing these VM's
                   they'd give a fuck.
                        \_ They should do it for the love of java.  Hey are
                           these VM's written in Java?

ERROR, url_link recursive (eces.Colorado.EDU/secure/mindterm2) 2025/05/29 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

5/29

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2012/8/29-11/7 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:54467 Activity:nil

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2009/9/28-10/8 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:53409 Activity:nil

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2009/7/21-24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:53168 Activity:moderate

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www.salon.com/tech/col/garf/2001/01/08/bad_java/index.html -> dir.salon.com/tech/col/garf/2001/01/08/bad_java/index.htmlBy Simson Garfinkel - - - - - - - - - - January 08, 2001 | I hate Java. As a programmer, I hate 44 Java, the language, for what it has done to the field of programming. As a journalist, I hate the relentless hyping of Java by its supporters, as well as their unending excuses as to why Java has failed to deliver. And as a technologist who has been involved with three major projects that have used Java, I hate the complications that Java has caused. I will concede that it is possible to use Java to create small applications that are downloaded over the Web and run within Web browsers. Over the past month, I've actually run into two such Java-based applications that worked pretty well. The first was a Java-based 45 mortgage calculator that dramatically shows the financial advantage to pre-paying your home mortgage -- paying just $50 extra on a $733 monthly mortgage payment can save you $40,196 over the course of an 8 percent, 30-year loan. I was also particularly impressed by the Yahoo Finance Java-based portfolio 46 manager, which lets you rapidly compare a large set of stocks using dozens of different variables. The vast majority of the high-profile attempts to use Java to create major desktop applications have failed. But five years after Java's introduction, it is still slow and cumbersome, and not only has the "write-once, run-everywhere" promise not been delivered on, it's also turned out to not even be necessary. Java is far from even being the first attempt at portability. Let's not forget that the original motivation behind the C 47 * language, way back in the early 1970s, was to create a portable computer language. The theory was that a programmer would be able to take a program written in C and be able to run it on different computers simply by recompiling 48 * the source code. I have many programs that can compile and run on Windows, on Intel-based Unix workstations, and even on Sun Ultra-SPARC servers. One of the advantages of Java over C was supposed to be that programs would be able to migrate from computer to computer without having to be recompiled. But while the portability works most of the time, Java is not, and never will be, a replacement for C or its successor C++. But they ended up with a language that is ugly, hard to read and that requires an inordinate amount of typing because of a variety of pedagogical restrictions imposed by Java's creators.