5/23    Anyone had Fateman for 264 (or even 164)? How is he as a
        professor?
        \_ I had him one of the times I took 164.  He's a smart guy
           but I didn't really jive with his teaching style.  When I
           took 264 under Savage Sue, I felt that I was getting a
           much much better experience.  -blojo
           \_ Seconded.  Sue Graham rules.
           \_ I had Sue Graham for 164 and thought she was really good.
              Why do people have horror stories about her?
              \_ Because she is boring.  And because she generously only
                 takes away 3% of your grade per hour (as opposed to the
                 usual 5%) when she finds out cochise died 3 hours before
                 the project deadline.  -- ilyas
                 \_ She isn't nearly as boring as most profs and though
                    yes she is though, she is at least fair, which is
                    yes she is tough, she is at least fair, which is
                    more than I can say about some others.
           \_ You don't want a smart teacher.  You want a good teacher.  IE:
              someone who can teach the material well.  There's nothing in any
              of those classes any of the profs teaching them shouldn't already
              know sufficiently.
        \_ I had him for 164 in Sp '92.  His lecture wasn't exciting,
           although he seemed smart.  I think he gave easy grades.  -- yuen
                \_ Easy grades are important (not being sarcastic).
                  \_ yah avoid a prof who gives easy grades.  His class
                     will probably teach you nothing.
                        \_ Yeah you should do what I did and take all the
                           really smart, hard grading profs, learn a lot, and
                           see your gpa drop a full point.  Good idea.  Tell
                           the corporate recruiter that your 2.8 from Cal is
                           the same as another Cal student's 3.8 or a Farmer's
                           4.0 beause you took really hard profs!  Yeah right.
                           \_ "We have a saying at Berkeley: 'If they want
                              to know your GPA you don't want to work for
                              them.'"  My advice is go to a few interviews
                              for jobs you don't want sometime when you
                              aren't obviously hungry to practice being
                              a bit cocky.  Sure some interviewers will
                              gag and not want you, but you didn't want
                              that job.  In the long run you will find
                              yourself doing more interesting work for
                              more pay.
                              \_ Yup.  That's exactly what I did.  Why?
                                 Because I didn't have the gpa for grad school.
                                 Thanks for the tip.
                                 \_ I gotta admit under a 3.0 is pretty
                                    sad.  (Which is what you need to get
                                    over the grad school cut)  Hell even
                                    I managed that.
                                    \_ You didn't take all the harder teachers
                                       like I did and learn as much as me.
                                       As I said before, take easy teachers,
                                       get a good gpa.  The rest is bullshit.
                                       Don't fall for the idealism crap about
                                       learning more.
                                       \_ oh i didn't realize you knew
                                          what classes I took.  Sorry.
                                          (As a matter of fact I tried to
                                          avoid the easy classes cause I was
                                          here to learn.  I'm just saying
                                          a 3.0 really isn't that hard to get,
                                          at least not if you consider yourself
                                          grad student material)
                                          \_ You wouldn't have a 3.0+ gpa if
                                             you took all the harder classes.
                                             Maybe you missed the basic
                                             concept that it *isn't* easy to
                                             get a B or higher in a hard
                                             class.  Or maybe Cal has just
                                             watered it down in recent years
                                             to keep the grade inflated
                                             self-esteem raised weeny kids
                                             of the Baby Boomers from going
                                             off the deep end and suiciding
                                             when they get less than a 4.0
                                             for the first time ever?
                       \_ Manuel Blum teaching 172 is a counterexample.
                          He is a very easy grader.  I probably learned
                          more in his class than in any other undergrad class.
                          -- ilyas
        \_ he's great if you get misty-eyed over Algol 60 stories