Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:April:28 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:18134 Activity:very high
4/27    Thanks for the job interview suggestions the other day.  I asked
        the "Write a program that sums integers given at the command-line".
        That was indeed a good thing.
        \_ You have got to be ***FUCKING KIDDING***.  What position
           were you hiring for, janitor?  -blojo (intoxicated)
        \_ I'm glad it helped.  blojo: face it, people are fucking morons.
           -dans
                \_ Original post was looking for a warm body that can do some
                   \_ Shit, where can you find such personnel? Ours only
                      know how to inadvertently jar loose power cords.
                   basic coding in C/C++.  Dunno about your janitors but ours
                   can only admin 95/98/NT.
                   \_ Shit, where can you find such personnel? Our custodial
                      staff only know how to inadvertently jar loose the
                      computer power cords.
        \_ How did it go?  We want the gory details...
           \_ Well, I'll be strictly factual since this might filter back to
              them.  One person was unhappy doing it in C, and thought
              "command-line arguments" meant cout << "Please enter # of
              integers to be added".  The other person got it more or less
              right except they had main(char *argv[], int argc) and they
              didn't initialize int sum.  I gave them both 5 minutes.  What
              this told me was that the first person may have problems with
              C programming and communication, and the second person is
              so-so.  Incidentally, the first person had a GPA of 3.8 and is
              a grader for a C++ course and the second has a GPA of 3.2, and
              they were both MS students.  Don't ask which school.  ("When I
              grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!")
                \_ All my faith in the world is destroyed.  -blojo (ibid)
                   \_ I once knew an MSCS from CMU who couldn't grasp the
                      concept of moving a file from his AOL account to his
                      home machine with net access. -- ilyas
                        \_ Proving what?  That a degree means nothing?  We
                           all knew that already.
                           \_ The motd is not a proving ground.
                        \_ Maybe he was into theory and never used a computer.
                           \_ Hi paolo
                           \_ You know, I am interviewing people now, so I
                              have some actual data to bring to bear.  And
                              you know what, a math degree generally entails
                              a greater degree of clue than a CS degree.
                              How about that?  -- ilyas
                              \_ Clue about the stars?  Tell us about them.
                  \_ "People Are Stupid (TM)".  I was at a company that did
                      UCB on-campus interviews and they asked CS undergrad
                      seniors if they could write an algorithm to insert
                      into a linked list in sorted order.  >50% couldn't --oj
              \_ Huh. maybe there IS an actual IT shortage after all.
              \_ hey most modern computer guys don't need no command lines
                \_ You meant to say, "Most button pushing monkeys only need
                   a mouse".
                   \_ congratulations you missed the sarcasm
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:18135 Activity:nil
4/27    For those of you who are graduating (BS/MS/PHP), get $100
        certificate from Amazon by filling out the survey at
        <DEAD>survey.collegehire.com/survey/selectpage.html<DEAD>
        (You can get more if you refer)
        If you are not on collegehire's master graduating list, you will
        need to send in a resume + transcript to prove your eligibility.
        -YC (who filled out the form and then found out about the proof
         of status thingy)
        \_ It's a trick! Don't do it!
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/P2P, Recreation/Music] UID:18136 Activity:high
4/27    What is Gnutella?
        \_ One of several open source napster clones.  I believe it also
           doesn't rely on a central set of servers (like Napster) to archive
           information about what's where.  -John
           \_ It's not exactly a napster clone in that it doesn't use the
              same protocol as Napster and it's not just for trading
              mp3s; but the idea is similar.
              It was created by some people at Nullsoft (the WinAmp people),
              but when they released a public beta and their new bosses
              at AOL/TimeWarner found out, they told them to shut it
              down. Last I checked, the "official" Gnutella site is still
              out of commission.  Try: http://www.gnutella.co.uk
        \_ Gnu's implementation of Nutella
        \_ Random musing - does Napster keep any log of connections? When
           then get shut down some day, will the music industry be able to
           get a lot of all the music I've grabbed through them?  Will the
           volume be too high in general for individuals to get busted?
             \_ Why don't you just pay for your damn music? - musician
                \_ Because of inadequate purchasing options - if I was
                   allowed to easily evaluate music before purchasing,
                   and able to buy on a basis of exactly what I wanted to
                   buy (i.e. song-by-song basis), I would be *happy* to
                   support the musicians.  I am not willing to support the
                   leech of the music industry, however.  Same goes for the
                   film industry, once bandwidth is sufficient to pirate
                   movies.  Why can BMG sell discs so cheaply?  Why are
                   CDs more expensive than the more-expensive-to-make audio
                   cassettes?  The industry sucks.
                        \_ uh, it's called "supply and demand".
                           Rationalize all you want, but if it becomes
                           impossible to make money selling CD's/movies,
                           people will stop doing it.  -tom
                           \_ I trust in human ingenuity.  People will
                              adapt to another model in which they can
                              still make money and music/art.
                           \_ uh, it's hard to make money when everyone
                              steals your product, you selfish moron.  -tom
                              \_ What about concerts?  Playing in clubs?
                        \_ A typical band playing in a typical club
                           will cover the cost of their dinner and not
                           much more.  The only thing that brings performers
                           into big arenas to make big money is MASSIVE
                           RECORD COMPANY PROMOTION.  Self-promoted bands
                           do not make money touring.  -tom
\_ In general, the volume will be too high to bust individuals.
                However, in your case, they will somehow get back to you at
                which point you will get arrested and have to call sky to
                bust you out.
        \_ Lately, running BSD nap on soda, I always get error connecting
        socket. Is this purposeful on soda/berkeley's part, or is this
        some temporary snafu, or what?
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:18137 Activity:nil
4/28    procmail question: is there any (elegant) way to automatically
        delete mail messages from a mailfolder?  I'd like to have a
        backup copy of the last 100 or so incoming messages, stored in a
        pine-style mail folder, and the best I've seen creates lots of
        1-message mail folders in a subdirectory of ~/mail.  thanks
        \_ You could modify the recipe that does the 1-message mail folders
           and add something like a 'cat * > ../single-backup-dir'. Watch
           out for problems related to the post below... This is a pretty
           inelegant solution because you have to recreate the singledir
           file every time you receive an email. But you could tweak your
           recipe some more to append and only recreate the file every
           N messages. Now I'm just waiting for someone to post the REAL
           solution, not this crappy hack.
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:18138 Activity:nil
4/28    In terms of market availability, ease of obtaining certification,
        and financial reward, which certification would you guys recommend
        for non-tech majors who are interested in high-tech? MCSE?
        Oracle certification, or CCNA?
        \_ The intro Cisco courses are really good.  You'll learn a lot about
           networking protocols, more than the actual router configuration.
           I wouldn't worry too much about certification, since you'll be
           useless without actual clue.  I don't know about Oracle, but
           the general consensus seems to be that DBA'ing is only marginally
           more exciting than watching paint dry, if lucrative, and MCSE, what
           can I say.  If you can't learn the shit by playing with it, then
           you need to go back to non-tech.  -John
        \_ Let's see... you finally realized that majoring in "wood" isn't
          going to make you any money... so you want to make what CS majors,
          make, without doing the work.
          I'd have to say the MCSE is most appropriate for you.
        \_ There is no easy answer to this. There are trade-offs and it all
           depends on what you want. For example, getting MCSE is probably
           the cheapest way to go (competition on books, classes, etc), but
           the pay is only mediocre. Oracle certification will be very
           financially rewarding, but it is extremely stressful and the
           classes are more expensive than MCSE classes. CCNA classes are
           also financially rewarding, but like Oracle certification, they
           are also very expensive. Any average Joe can probably do MCSE
           and Oracle (you just play with them on your PC). CCNA however is
           a totally different ball game.
        \_ You seem to have erased my very serious answer. So let me
           rephrase it in a more direct manner for you, since you dont
           understand subtlety:
           You're a loser looking for a fast buck. Therefore, join the
           rest of your ilk,in the MSCE flock
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:18139 Activity:low
4/28    I'm the same person who asked the CD-RW question.  Now that we have
        the choice of drive settled ... Do I have a *choice* on a SCSI
        card?  Adaptec cards are expensive, and this CD-RW is for
        a relative who wants fast burns but I don't want to give him crap.
        Am I just going to go ahead and buy for him a $160 Ultra160 card?
        \_ get a cheap 60-70 buck card, ie., tekram or something, if it's
           just gonna be used to hook up to the cdrw.
2000/4/28-29 [Industry/Jobs] UID:18140 Activity:moderate
4/28    Can someone recommend a good salary survey site for
        non-management technical positions? Most sites I could find
        have outdated data or not enough data.
        \_ http://salary.com
           \_ This is pretty good... compares to offers that I have been getting.
        \_ http://www.pencom.com e.g. <DEAD>salarysurvey.pencom.com/SalExt<DEAD>
           --social science major
           \_ This is WAY WAY low if you graduating EECS/CS.
        \_ Are you BS/BA or MS? $65k is average, $75k+ if you're good.
2000/4/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:18141 Activity:nil
4/28    Microsoft gets smacked:
        http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,2557484,00.html
        AFAIK, this is just a recommendation.  What is the likelihood that
        it will be carried out? -dans
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:April:28 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>