Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:September:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1999/9/2 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16448 Activity:very high
9.2     Aw yeah:
        Ethnic Studies 98, 2 units, MW 12-1, 155 Kroeber
        Tupac Shakur made a significant impact on current and
        future generations.
        This class will explore the nature of Tupac's significance. Class
        discussions, analysis of poetry and songs, guest speakers, films, and
        literature will be utilized to accomplish this exploration.
        Course Coordinator(s): Felipe Macay,, 636-1995
        \_ This isn't real.  You can't earn credits for this.  Please tell me
           this is a joke you made up and not from the class catalog.
           \_ This should satisfy the L&S philosophy & values requirement
              since all of those classes are detached from reality.
           \_ this _is_ a class, and I am taking it - for the units of course.
              and the large reader is _quite_ humourous.
              \_ If you do take this class tell us what the makeup of the
                 class is.  I bet you there's a bunch of whore chicks
                 dressed in nasty clothes and guys who shave the sides of
                 their heads but let their tops grow out really long,
                 wear their visors upside down and backwards, Tommy
                 Hilfiger shirts and stupid frat jackets, and baggy pants so
                 baggy that you need rubber bands, and drive stupid suped up
                 Honda Civics that don't do anything but scrape the ground
                 and vibrate
           \_ I once saw an MTV "News Report" saying that Tupac Shakur's
              death is the most important event in the 1990's. Now, if
              that isn't intelligent journalism then I don't know what
              is.  I once associated myself with the MTV generation.
              Now I'm just ashamed to even know about it. Unfortunately,
              half the dumbshits in this school think that the entire
              world revolves around (c)rap.
                \_ I'm not the world's biggest rap music fan, but how do
                   you get off saying something like this? it is the most
                   powerful influence in youth culture in America, with
                   the possible exception of religion.  So what do you
                   think the world revolves around? c++? Britney Spears?
                   William Faulkner?
                   \_ I didn't say it revolved around anything.  But in
                      a decade when we've seen Yitsak Rabin, Mark
                      McGuire, John Glenn, and many world leaders make
                      history, and massive world events like the Balkan
                      conflict how can you say the Tupac's death is
                      "the major historical turning point in the 1990's"?
                      \_ Mark McGuire? this is a joke, right? and what
                         kind of history has Glenn made this decade?
                         being an old man in the middle of a public
                         relations stunt?
                         \_ Oh yeah, and Tupac is something I want my
                            kids to remember about the 1990's.  In our
                            US History books twenty years later we'll
                            have "Tupac Shakur's death throws America
                            into turmoil" instead of "Mark McGuire makes
                            history".  I hate baseball more than anyone
                            else but I know what's historically
                            \_ How could you have missed the nationwide
                               riots that occurred as a result of Tupac
                               being shot?
                                \_ Riots because one black drug dealer was
                                   shot by another black drug dealer?
                \_ Take it or leave it, hiphop is an interesting social and
                   artistic phenomenon. I personally find it fascinating
                   that it provokes the extreme reactions in people that it
                   obviously does. You don't see people going out and
                   speaking out against the evils of broadcasting bubblegum
                   oldies or classical music, and the fact that gangsta rap
                   is both widely popular and widely reviled points out that
                   there are two widely-held and diametrically opposed
                   viewpoints on it; add in a flashy celebrity personality
                   such as Tupac, and you get something which could be the
                   makings of an excellent opportunity for bringing people who
                   were merely passive listeners or passively disgusted
                   together to talk. (I can't help but imagine that the above
                   poster, for one, will be in attendance in order to set
                   everyone straight. And of course I'm being wildly idealistic,
                   but if there's going to be any intellectual discussion of
                   ideas on this campus, it's not going to be in the stagnant
                   code farms of the EECS dep't.)
                   \_ Pfft.  As if there's going to be any serious intellectual
                      discussion of ideas within Ethnic Studies . . . I quickly
                      learned that the way to an A in my Ethnic Studies class
                      was to *never* debate the statements of my (communist-
                      lesbian-of-color) TA, but to merely absorb her spouting
                      and regurgitate it in my next essay or exam.  I sure
                      hope this ES98 is a DECal class . . .
                      \_ it's pretty sad but I think this is about the only
                         thing that I learned in my years at Cal -- just give
                         them what they want and nothing more
                   \_ Artistic?  Yeah right.  You want art and culture, try
                      listening to the Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel, Van
                      Morrison, Bob Dylan, Bob Marley, Dave Matthes, Barry
                      White, Mozart, swing, jazz, blues, whatever.  I admit,
                      even I listen to bubble gum shit too but at least I admit
                      that the crap I listen to on the radio is bubble gum.
                      Rap is exactly that - bubble gum, but with minorities
                      dressed in flashy clothing and singing to a variation
                      of the same tune.  It's bubble gum and it's not
                      something worth studying for artistic and cultural
                      reasons in an academic institution.
                      \_ we can't have a "colored" storming these ivory
                         towers now, can we?  what's more "bubble gum"
                         \_ I wasn't being racist.  I was just pointing
                            out how a lot or rap was.  How many rap
                            music out there is about someone's hatred
                            for white people.  By the way, I'm not white
                            myself neither is Bob Marley. ax may be a KKK
                            but I'm not.
                                \_ How did I get associated with the KKK?
                                   My last name is Spanish, for God's sake.
                                   Although I wouldn't mind getting under a
                                   white sheet with yer mom.  -ax
                         than just about all of paul mccartney's beatles'
                         \_ Most of modern day music has some form of
                            derivation of something that the Beatles did.
                            It may be bubble gum now since you've heard
                            much of it over and over in alternative music
                            but back then it was new material.
                         \_ There will truly be no peace and justice in
                            AmeriKKKa until bh stops talking about the damn
                            Beatles and becomes a Tupac fan instead!  Stop
                            this professorial racism!
                \_ you all speak like the decadent bourgeiouse larvae you
                   are.  The 3rd world cares not about your mtv or your
                   decadent ways.  The time will grow near.
                   \_ This was posted as a joke but the real joke was that,
                      during the three weeks I spent in West Africa last
                      year, the most common T-shirts I saw were Tupac shirts.
                      Most of the folks I asked had no idea who he was or that
                      he had been dead for a year. They just liked the shirts.
                      Probably distributed by the same source that flooded
                      West Africa with the Madonna decal that is on every
                      damned taxi in the country. -ulysses
                \_ I'm sure that Tupac Shakur played a pretty significant
                   role in the life of the woman he raped and sodomized.
                   Maybe the class will take a look at that aspect of
                   his life as well.
                   \_ Only one woman?  how small-time!
                     \_ one *conviction*
                   \_ She was just a footsoldier in the revolution.
        \_ HE'S DEAD, GET A LIFE!!!!
1999/9/2 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:16449 Activity:nil
9/2     Asshole, don't erase the whole motd.  There's plenty of decent stuff
        on here.  Motd restored.
1999/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:16450 Activity:low
9/2     Berkeley makes slashdot news regarding changes to BSD license.
1999/9/2 [Uncategorized] UID:16451 Activity:nil
9/2     What's the proper format for a http head request?  Where can I find
        this info on the net?  Thanks!
1999/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:16452 Activity:very high
9/2     Is the US Marshals considered "police"?  Why are there so many
        different kinds of national "polices": FBI, US Marshals, DEA,
        ATF, etc.?  Don't they overlap?  Why can't we just have one police
        department like some other countries?  Thx. -- New to this country
 _____                _  ______ _
|  ___| __ ___  ___  | |/ / ___| |__   __ _ _ __   __ _
| |_ | '__/ _ \/ _ \ | ' / |   | '_ \ / _` | '_ \ / _` |
|  _|| | |  __/  __/ | . \ |___| | | | (_| | | | | (_| |
|_|  |_|  \___|\___| |_|\_\____|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|\__, |
        \_ Turn back on ~lwall/bin/ for all to use.
           \_ Get a life.  or a clue..
        \_ Each of the various orgs you named and others have their own area
           of enforcement they specialize in.  The DEA does drugs.  The FBI
           does general enforcement within our borders and also is the counter
           to large criminal orgs such as the mafia.  The ATF burns religious
           nuts and I don't know what the US Marshals do.  Each of these orgs
           often works closely with the others.  For example, the FBI helped
           the ATF burn the wackos at Waco.  The DEA imports drugs so the FBI
           and Coast Guard have something to do.  The CIA manufactures drugs
           in other countries to keep prices down (cheap foreign labor).  Any
           other questions?
           \_ U.S. Property recovery and escaped convicts are the
              responsiblity of hte Marshals. there is actually very little
              overlapping, in my opinion. -jlee
              \_ So an escaped convict can't be captured by FBI or city police
                 because only the US Marshals have the legal power to do so?
              \_ So an escaped convict can't be captured by FBI because only
                 the US Marshals have the legal power to do so?  Or if I'm
                 making a bomb at home, the city police can't arrest me because
                 only the ATF has the power to do so?
                 \_ No they can. But only one org has the main jurisdiction.
           \_ Jeez.. you make it sound like "Mission Earth"
           \_ What does the Bureau of "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" have to
              do with religious nuts?  And why is the US Secret Service, an
                \_ The ATF was the org primarily responible for the Waco Texas
                   seige until the FBI showed up and burned them to death.
              agency for protecting the president, under the Dept. of
              Treasury?  Isn't the Dept. of Treasury only about money and
              economics?  Confused.
              \_ you know that the secret service was originally created
                 to combat rampant currency counterfeiting, right?
              \_ BATF went after the Branch Davidians on weapons possession
                 violations (they had a M2 Medus for example - .50BMG full
                 auto). Secret Service started under Abraham Lincoln as an
                 anti-counterfeiting unit.  -jlee
           \_ CIA isn't a law enforcement agency technically speaking, is it?
              \_ CIA 's activities can not concern "U.S. persons" by law.
        \_ Politics and grabbing as much budget as possible.
1999/9/2-5 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:16453 Activity:high
9/2     Can somebody point me to web sites that has tutorials on BGP, OSPF,
        and other routing protocols?  I have read the RFCs, but they are
        not really written with teaching in mind.  Thanks.
        \_ You can try reading the lecture notes at
           but Kevin Fall was the worst professor (if that's what you call
           him) I've ever had at Berkeley so I don't know how much you'll
           learn from that.  Maybe you should buy the 122 book.
           \_ Yes, he was the worst prof ever. But he didn't give any grade
              below a C-, even if you didn't take the final.
           \_ Worse than Alan Smith?
              \_ I know this 4.0gpa, 17 A-pluses guy who thinks Alan
                 Smith's class is great.
                 \_ You can't???
                 \_ Well, if your primary interest is continuing your string
                    of A-pluses, rather than learning something, Smith *is*
                        \_ Learning is worthless if you can't show it off with
                           good grades.  If you're not getting good grades,
                           you're wasting your time in school.  There's very
                           little you can learn in school that can't be learned
                           out of school.  The only difference is good grades
                           are evidence of having learned something.  A big
                           "yeah whatever, go fuck yourself" for anyone who
                           brings up the old line about not wanting to work
                           for anyone who would dare be stupid enough to ask
                           your gpa.  That's just sour grapes.
                           \_ Not true.  By example, I have two friends in
                              CS.  One has a 3.8 and the other has a 3.1.
           \_ I took that ee122 w/ kfall.  I rather liked the project.
              It wasn't a standard Berkeley CS "Fill in your code here"
              project.  It was: read the rfc, write code according to
              SPEC.  This made me actually feel like I was doing something
              useful.  I still use and am developing my webserver today.
              My only gripe was that the lecture notes were in a format
              (converted .ppt -> .ps) which took too long to print - paolo
              \_ And then there are those idiots who think they can print
                 PDF files straight to a postscript printer.
                 \_ You can't???
                              It's pretty amazing how someone with a 3.8
                              can ask some of the stupidest questions in
                              the world but I personally wouldn't trust
                              my life to him.  He once asked me if you
                              could cast an Integer in Java to a string by
                              Integer i = new Integer(5);
                              How pathetic, yet he still has a 3.8.
                              The guy with the 3.1, on the other hand, is
                              a hell of a lot more trustworthy as he
                              doesn't do idiotic things like cast Integer's
                              to String's
                    great for 162 . . . just memorize his lectures so that
                    you can regurgitate them back at exam time, and you'll do
                    fine.  Not to mention that you didn't have to spend too
                    much time on those pesky NACHOS projects, because they
                    were worth practically nothing.
                    \_ He buys Smith's argument that for cs162 class
                       projects, simulation is more useful than synthesis
                       (ie. NACHOS) in the "real world".
                       \_ "Real world" arguments concerning Smith would have
                          been convincing if he didn't spend his lectures
                          reminiscing about paging out to drum memory on his
                          IBM 1401 . . . for him, the real world stopped
                          somewhere around 1972.
           \_ Dude, you could've taken 122 from Jean Walrand.  Count your
        \_ Cisco has a CD set they give out at their courses.  It's pretty
           good if you ignore the marketing garbage and product info on it.
           Mine's marked "Sales Order Number DOC-CONDOCCD" if that's any
           help.  -John
        \_ Still think that kfall wasn't that bad, even if you selectively
           edit this file.  the webserver project was good, it wasn't an
           "insert code here" type of project, it had to be written from
           scratch to the rfc 1945 spec.  If you want a good book, DO NOT
           BUY Peterson & Davie, kfall himself recommended a book by Keshav.
           - paolo
           \_ i think the only good criticism of the class was not that kfall
              assigned real programming projects but that he wasnt upfront
              about it at the beginning of the semester.  The class had
              not previously had as involved a programming project as when he
              taught it and such could not be expected from the catalog.
              Really, though, there should be an ee122 and cs122, with some
              common ground between the two.  ee122 should talk about the
              the hardware implications of a network protocol and how that
              affects protocol stack design and cs122, the design of a
              protocol stack and use in applications.  But as ee122 talks
              about both aspects, yes, students should be prepared to
              implement a real network protocol.  And for the original
              question, TCP Illustrated.  RIP WR Stevens.
              \_ NO!.  I will explain:  if the Networking class was a CS
                 class, I could not have taken it last semester.  Same with
                 _EE_ 150.  CS Classes are restricted, thus ensuring
                 high wages for those who can graduate with the major.
                 (not necessarily high clue.) - paolo
                 \_ paolo, that is a selfish attitude.  just because you
                    might not have been able to get into the class doesnt
                    mean that it should be taught in an ineffective manner.
                    If separating ee122 into hw and sw classes would teach
                    the material better then so be it.
                    \_ Dreamer.  It's all about self.  School has nothing to
                       do with The Right Thing or they would make sure they
                       didn't have to restrict classes in the first place.
                       Check out the forest, not the trees.
                       \_ right, and so you can have upper div cs classes
                          with 400 students in them.  great idea paolo.
1999/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:16454 Activity:low
9/3     Does anyone know how to bold/underline things in vi?
        \_ You do understand the meaning of "text editor" don't you?
        \_ .B, <B> or whatever the bold code is for the formatting language
                you are writing
        \_ How can I make a header/table/blinking-line in vi?
1999/9/2-3 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:16455 Activity:high
9/2     I know this is probably about a 4 line perl script, but could
        someone direct me to a program which changes a html doc. into a
        text doc.
        \_ This is close but not there.  html2ps converts html to postscript.
           try to apropos html (or alias apropos man -k if you haven't done
           \_ what's so hard about typing man -k?  it's a full keystroke less
              than apropos and easier to remember...
              \_ apropos is an english word so it's easier to remember for
                 some people.
                 \_ apropos?  Say that ten times, fast.
                    \_ Yeah, I did. So what?
                        \_ No you didn't.  If you said it fast enough you'd be
                           dead now.  Coded into every lifeform is a trigger
                           which will cause spontaneous combustion.  The
                           trigger happens to be saying apropos ten times, fast.
                           The fact that you're still here to claim you did so
                           only proves you didn't.  Please note that me, the
                           CSUA, the politubro, UCB, and no other person or
                           organisation is responsible for your death should
                           you choose to say apropos ten times at a fast enough
                           rate to cause your burning death.
        \_ lynx -dump
           \_ This is the closest answer to correct.
@x = <>;
`|lynx -dump`;
                   Something like that?  :-)  (my perl is rusty, sorry)
                   \_ that's only 2 lines.  You must make it about 4 lines
                      or else you can never show your face here again without
                      it being bitten off by my dog.
                      \_ Ok add this:
print "Conversion done in";
print "4 lines of bad perl.\n";
                         Will that keep the dogs at bay?
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:September:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>