Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:October:24 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2000/10/24-25 [Computer/Companies/Ebay] UID:19550 Activity:nil
10/24   What is the absolute cutoff time to leave a feedback for a user on
        eBay? A stupid seller is refusing payment, eBay is not doing
        anything about it, and if I leave a negative feedback right now
        I will surely get one back. To protect myself I'd like to leave
        a negative feedback a few hours before the cutoff so that he cannot
        retaliate. But what is the cutoff time?
        \_ http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/feedback.html
2000/10/24-25 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:19551 Activity:nil
10/24   Can you hook up a regular keyboard AND mouse to a laptop?
        Any good advice/links on laptops?
        \_ USB
        \_ If your laptop has only one PS/2 jack, you can get a Y-adapter
           for it. I got mine at Frys for $8.99. You need to connect your
           mouse and keyboard to the Y-adapter first, then connect the Y
           adapter to your laptop. If you reverse the order your laptop
           will not recognise the device.
           \_ This depends on the laptop also. On the old Toshibas the
              Y cable didn't work since there wasn't enough power to
              drive the keyboard and mouse.
        \_ If you have USB, the solution is easy...
        \_ I do this all the time with my PowerBook G3. I plug the
           keyboard into USB1 and the mouse into the keyboard and
           my PSX-esque controller into USB2. If you have one of those
           UBER-LAME PC laptops without USB, try the splitter mentioned
           above or get a docking station (mini or otherwise), as docking
           stations have both keyboard and mouse ports (usb and otherwise).
2000/10/24 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19552 Activity:nil
10/23   on a Sun (solaris).  if i use BASH and type grep i get gnu grep,
        if i use [not BASH] i get the Uber-LAME grep that comes with
        solaris.  "which" indicates that they are the SAME grep.  What
        the hell is going on?
           \_ Your fu is really weak, this is a $PATH problem.
                \_ If your fu is so great why don't you explain WHY "which"
                   is leading me astray.
                   \_ Your problem is most likely related to "which"
                      screwing up when looking at $PATH (it screws up
                      because its a POS csh script). $PATH is set in
                      a shell's init scripts. Depending on your shell,
                      its value will be different. "which" is too stupid
                      to figure all this out and just gives you the lame
                      csh setting.
                      When using a Bourne shell (/bin/sh, /sbin/sh on
                      Solaris) or a Bourne-compatible shell (bash) use
                      "type" instead of "which" as God and Steve intended.
                      When using Korn shell, you should exec /bin/sh
                      and rm -f all instances of David Korn's greatest
                      mistake. If you insist on using a csh compatible
                      shell, please shoot yourself in the head or jump
                      in front of a car, or something to get yourself
                      removed from the gene pool.
                        \_ boy, can't everyone just get along, agree on
                           a friggin' standard so i don't have to be
                           annoyed by petty differences in execution
                           every time i use a new box. fer fuck's sake.
                           \_ There is a standard its called POSIX, barely
                              anyone uses it. The only shell standard
                              worth adhering to is Bourne Shell, as
                              concieved and created by the master in
                              tribute to one of the finest of languages
                              ALGOL.
                              Now about your GNU addition, perhaps you
                              should check yourself into the Betty Ford
                              clinic for recovering 31337 GNU/L1NUX
                              H@0XR5.
                              \_ I use tcsh because that is what the csua
                                 gave me way back in 1992 and i'm too old
                                 to change now.
                                 \_ Put the following in your .cshrc (or
                                    whatever you pagans use):
                                    exec /bin/sh
                                    One is never too old to renounce the
                                    dark side.
                      \_ why doesn't bourne shell provide built-in
                         arithmetic?  it really sucks when you're trying
                         to fix a system without /bin/expr..
                            \_ bc is usually available if expr isn't.
                         \_ but POSIX-sh does have it. And POSIX-sh is
                            basically ksh. So use ksh.
                            \_ What kind of a man recommends that David
                               Korn's most hateful rubbish ought to be
                               used?
        \_ What's wrong with solaris grep (either /usr/bin or /usr/xpg4/bin)?
           Are you addicted to all that non-standard GNU crap or something?
           Damn kids and with thier 311T3 GNU/L1NUX B0X35.
           \_ You misspelled 31337.
              \_ S00RY.
           \_ For starters solaris grep will not descend directory trees.
              It is also lacking the -A and -B flags and others. -crebbs
                 \_ What's wrong with: find /dir -type f -name ... -exec grep {}
                    ....
                    \_ where's the terminating semi?
                    \_ creates one grep per file, which is too much overhead.
                       Use xargs as God intended.
                 \_ Descending directory trees should not be a function
                    of grep, that would be stupid and inane and completely
                    opposed to the UNIX tools philosophy. Take some time
                    and read "Software Tools" and you will be enlightened.
                    Old jungle saying if you want to descend trees, use
                    find & xargs as the gods did in ages past:
                    find . -type f -print | xargs grep [options] [expr]
                    \_ With slight updating for correctness (it's what the
                       original authors would have wanted, had they wanted
                       their programs to actually work in the general case):
                       find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep [options] [expr]
                       \_ older versions of Solaris did not have -print0,
                          since the original poster didn't specify which
                          version of Solaris he was using, I had to leave
                          this out.
                    \_ is this considered poor style:
                       grep [options] [expr] `find . -type f -print`
                       \_ Yes, little grasshopper. If your redirect
                          results in more than MAXARGS matches, the
                          command will fail.
                    \_ follow up from -crebbs unintentionally deleted.
                         \_ Actually, I intentionally deleted it -crebbs
                            (it basically said: i'm lazy and i don't really
                             care about the "UNIX tools philosophy" i care
                             that grep -r [expr] is easier to type. Though
                             i certainly don't need to read some book to
                             get the point being made, regardless of if i
                             agree)
                      \_ Software Tools is a book by Kernigan & Plaugher
                          that explains what the purpose of a "tool"
                          should be. The purpose of grep is global
                          regular expression print, it prints out
                          matching lines from a *FILE* or list of
                          *FILES* It has nothing to do with *DIRECTORIES*.
                           \_ The purpose of a tool is whatever i happen
                              to want to use it for.  The primary purpose
                              of grep is to find something i'm looking for
                              but don't know where it is.  Sometimes that
                              means i don't know where in a file. sometimes
                              that means in a directory and sometimes that
                              means in a directory tree.  If i'm just
                              matching lines in the way you are thinking
                              i'm probably not using grep i'm usin PERL.
                              If all i ever used grep for was in shell
                              scripting i might agree with you.
                                 \_ The primary purpose of grep is not
                                    as you suggest to "find" things
                                    that you are looking for but don't
                                    know where they are. The primary
                                    purpose of grep is "global regular
                                    expression print", it is supposed
                                    to print matching lines from a FILE.
                                    Its job is not to guess what the
                                    linguistically lazy mean. Perhaps
                                    we can enhance the next version of
                                    grep to include a Dieana Troi mode
                                    where it senses what you want to
                                    match and does a big song and dance
                                    to help your find it.
                                    \_ bash and it's default grep sucks.
                                       How comes it's not a mail client too?
                                       Plus, not only should it recursively
                                       grep directories, it should grep
                                       my inbox and mail-folders and also
                                       check my .tar .gz and .zip files
                                       automatically. In fact, you should
                                       use EMACS instead.
              \_ if you need this crap, use awk.
                 \_ awk is for piping $2 to xargs kill -9
        \_ grep is grep.  If you need more use Perl.
           \_ oh please, why use perl, if you need more use JAVA. A
              reasonable person uses the quickest/easiest tool available
              to get the job done.
              \_ And that's Java?  Dude, you're sick.
2000/10/24 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:19553 Activity:nil
10/23   Can somebody recommend a fancy vegetarian restaurant in the bay area?
        I'm looking for something like Chez Pannese but 100% vegetarian.
        Thanks.
        \_ Long Life Vegi House in Berkeley (assuming it's still
           there) is not quite as fancy as Chez Pannise and they also
           serve seafood...but it's _damn_ good.  --recovering vegan
           \_ you know, all those poeple who like long life vegi house
              must have been beaten as kids.  The food is bland and
              unispired, even the pure vegi dishes.  It is true white boy
              chinese food.
              \_ I've observed that many "vegi" only restaurants serve
                 the most bland food on the planet and look at you as
                 if you are a grotesque sea monster from a black lagoon
                 on mars if you ask them for red pepper or hot sauce.
                 I find it frustrating to eat americanized "vegi" food.
                 - indian who is glad to have home cooking
        \_ it's pretty hard to be a vegan epicurean...
           \_ it's not very hard to be a fucking moron -pld
                \_ Gosh that was a useful comment.
              \_ case in point?
        \_ Consider yourself invited Chez Moi. I'm not professionally
           trained or anything but I'm not a bad cook and I love having
           vegetarians for dinner. -seano
              \_ You eat vegetarians for dinner! Damn I thought there
                 was a law against that.
                 \_ Actually, I prefer vegan meat; for breakfast and cold
                    cuts... but all vegetarians go well with a compliment of
                    asparagus bordelaise and a crisp sauvignon blanc. -seano
                    \_ the joke was funny until you explained it
                    \_ Interesting. Soda's own Jeffery Damlher.
                        \_ He didn't exclude women from his invite list....
                        \_ is he like Jeffrey Dahmer?
           \_ and the nice smell of rotting food adds so much to the ambience
        \_ I heard of a restaurant called Green's.  Don't know if it still
           exists or not.  It might be in SF.
           \_ Yes, Greens. Don't go anywhere else. It's in SF (Fort
              Mason). Fleur De Lys is also reputed to have a good vegetarian
              tasting menu according to Zagat. --dim
              \_ Fleur de Lys is a pretty damn good restaurant
        \_ Never been to Greens, but I have a copy of their cookbook,
           VERY yummy food, but note, Greens has absolutely NOTHING
           whatsoever to do with being healthy.  A nice lean steak
           is probably healthier than many of their dishes.
        \_ Millenium - in the ground floor of some hotel in SF.  (Almost vegan,
           but has some dishes with cheese and/or honey.)
           \_ millenium is for the hard core vegetarian or vegan.  it rocks
              if you hate meat.  in the abigail hotel on mcallister near
              van ness --chris
              \_ What does hating meat have to do with begin vegetarian?
                 - vegetarian who does not hate meat, but rather choses
                   not to eat it.
                 \_ i meant if you hate meat, you'll like millenium.  it's
                    almost all vegan, they have seitan, tofu galore...so if
                    you like the taste of meat, the meat substitutes won't
                    make you too happy. --chris
                    \_ I like the taste of meat and think meat substitutes
                       are disgusting.  Any vegitarian who eats those things
                       should stop being stupid and just eat meat once
                       in a while.  If you are gonna be vegi do it right and
                       eat stuff that isn't pretending.  IT TASTES BETTER.
                        \_ just for reference, i eat vegi fake meat because
                           i like it, not because i hate meat or because i
                           want to replace it.  in fact, i've never tasted
                           red meat before, unless you count the bologna i
                           accidentally ate once when i was little that made
                           me violently ill.  -lila
                           \_ hey, kind of like those peas i choked on
                              that accidentally rolled next to my porterhouse
                              when i was 9...
                                \_ no, not really
                       \_ Okay, its obvious that my comment was misunderstood.
                          I'm a vegetarian who doesn't eat "meat" substitutes.
                          I've always had a vegetarian diet (indian), but I
                          don't hate meat and I'm not a member of PETA or
                          anything stupid like that. I think that one should
                          be free to choose to eat meat or not. There is no
                          point in heckling people over their choice.
                          \_ I don't think chris was saying vegetarians
                             explicitly "hate meat." i think she said you had
                             to be a vegetarian who hated meat to like
                             and really appreciate millenium
        \_ saw a bumper sticker: "I Love Animals. They taste delicious"
           \_ Another: "If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he
              make them out of meat?"
              \_ reminds me of the Far Side cartoons tofu gazelles while
                 the Lions looked on.
        \_ Green's is a good suggestion. You may also want to try Joubet's
           at the end of the N Judah line. Vegetarian French-South African
           cusine.
2000/10/24 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:19554 Activity:nil
10/23   Any online java tutorials?
        \_ many...
        \_ http://java.sun.com
        \_ good online book at http://www.bruceeckel.com
           \_ This book is absolutely awful. I wonder if Mr. Eckel
              can even write a decent sized java program.
2000/10/24-25 [Uncategorized] UID:19555 Activity:high
10/24   Gotta love people getting their trolling ass-panties all in a twist
        about recursive directory-tree searches.  Geez Louise!
        \_ I like panties!
2000/10/24-25 [Uncategorized] UID:19556 Activity:high
10/24   Vote:
        User Friendly:  ....
        Dilbert:        ..
        Megatokyo:      .
        Crack-ho magzn: .
          (yermom, that is)
        Kevin and Kell (http://www.kevinandkell.com .
        Blondie:        .
        Blondie's: .....
        \_ fat slice >> blondies.
2000/10/24-25 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:19557 Activity:moderate
10/24   In tcsh, is there a difference between $path and $PATH?
        \_ only in syntax/format - they automagically update each other
            \_ one's in all cas
        \_ one's in all caps
        \_ one's in all caps __ and therefore more l337.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:October:24 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>