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| 7/8 |
| 2007/9/12-14 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:48036 Activity:high |
9/12 Obama: strong backer of Israel.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/09/11/post_69.html
\- BTW, Mearshimer and Walt are two quite well regarded
people in the International Relations fields. They are
"standard" in the grad IR curriculum. It would be
like say Susan Graham and Jeffrey Ullman weighing in on
compliers ... ok neither are Donald Knuth, and regular
people dont know who they are, but they are top in the
field. Walt did his PhD at Berkeley under Kenneth Waltz
[who would be like Knuth, or John McCarthy in the earlier
analogy]. Anyway, just pointing out these arent two randoms
or fringe fruitcakes ... like that dood Dershowitz went
after.
\_ I thought blanks and jews hate each other.
\_ Who told you that, Rush Limbaugh?
\_ Probably not that big a deal in recent years but the further
you go back, you more true it is. I'm sorry if you're unaware
of your own nation's history to such a degree you think only
Rush Limbaugh might know the ugly truth. --sad for you
\_ You mean during the Civil Rights movement when Blacks
and Jews worked hand in hand, literally, to help stop
segregation? Or do you mean further back? What
specifically are you talking about?
"From the beginning of the Civil Rights Movement,
Blacks and Jews marched arm-in-arm. In 1909, W.E.B.
Dubois, Julius Rosenthal, Lillian Wald, Rabbi Emil G.
Hirsch, Stephen Wise and Henry Malkewitz formed the
National Association for the Advancement of Colored
People (NAACP). One year later other prominent Jewish and
Black leaders created the Urban League. Julius Rosenwald
and Booker T. Washington worked together in 1912 to
improve the educational system for Blacks in the South."
http://www.csua.org/u/ji7
\_ No, I mean pre-Civil Rights when jews from Europe
were coming to the US to avoid being slaughtered in
European pogroms. The fact that there are a few well
known people who worked together at the time does not
change the fact that the average black and the average
jew hated each other. They were competing for jobs,
housing, etc. Today you won't find many jews and
blacks living in the same areas so distance makes the
heart grow fonder. Each has other concerns in the
modern era so the typical jew/black-on-the-street has
no special animosity towards the other. If you're
either black or jewish, ask your grandparents how they
feel about the other.
\_ You are misinformed about pre-Civil Rights history,
both in terms of race relations and overlap of
employment seeking. Read books like Low Life by
Luc Sante for more perspective.
\_ Most likely this perception of animosity between Jews
and blacks stems from anti-semitic rhetoric from Elijah
Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan, not to mention choice
mis-steps from the good Reverend, quoted below.
mis-steps from the good Reverend, quoted below. -!pp
\_ And don't forget about Professor Griff.
\_ Still waiting for a reply that shows knowledge about
my "nation's history." I assume I will never get it,
nor the mea culpa I deserve.
\_ Are you the same moron who thought GWB was
the principal person behind the PATRIOT Act?
Look at the post 3 posts up or the one below.
Or try STFW your damn self.
\_ Just like I thought, you haven't the foggiest
clue what you are talking about. Even funnier,
you think "Professor Griff" is history. Read
a history book some time, before you make
a fool of yourself again.
a fool of yourself again. Hint: the civil
rights movement started quite a bit *before*
Elijah Muhammed, contradicting your "further
back" claim. Furthermore, the overwhelming
majority of Blacks are Christian, not Muslim.
\_ The Elijah Muhammed comment was from a
different poster, not the one telling you
to STFW. -!pp
\_ Jesse Jackson = Christian. It doesn't
matter either way. The point is that in the
recent past, relatively high-profile blacks
have made some very anti-Jewish statements
and even though Prof. Griff may not be a
historical figure in your opinion, what is
significant is the lack of backlash these
high profile blacks received within the
black community. Jesse Jackson was more
than one remark and yet he is still the de
facto Emperor of Black People. STFW.
Seriously. I'm not doing anymore of your
fucking homework.
\_ No, your point was that blacks and jews
hate each other. This is an over-
generalization. -!pp
\_ I didn't make the statement that
blacks and jews hate each other.
blacks and jews hate each other. I'm
just pointing out that it's not that
far-fetched to believe this is the
case and that you didn't need Rush
Limbaugh to reach the conclusion.
-pp, but not pppppp
\_ Yep, thanks. Also, the idea that
blacks "hate" Jews more than they
"hate" other whites, is quite
frankly, laughable. -pp
\_ Fine. Live in ignorance. I can't
make you STFW and I really don't
care if you feel like you won
some sort of stupid Internet
debate.
\_ Are you taking your ball and
going home, too?
\_ Jesse Jackson. Hymietown.
\_ Because of course, Jesse Jackson speaks for all blacks
in America. And one remark is proof of "hate."
\_ Could it be because Jews dominated the slave trade?
\_ He told my dad he speaks for all black people...
\_ Does he plan on bombing them?
\_ "Brzezinski praised Obama for offering a "new face, a new sense of
direction, a new definition of America's role in the world,"
giving the junior senator from Illinois a strong boost of
credibility in the foreign policy department."
Yikes! An endorsement from the author of the "fund the Mujahadeen in
Afghanistan" policy is mixed blessing! |
| 7/8 |
|
| blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/09/11/post_69.html Correcting the Univision Record The Univision forum on Sunday drew a larger audience for a younger demographic than previous presidential debates, but the overall viewership was not higher than other events, as the network first reported. Voting Blocs Discussion Group Obama Distances Himself From Controversial Book on US-Israeli Relations Like many in Washington, Barack Obama is running as fast as he can from the authors of a controversial new book on US-Israeli politics. And in doing so, he's taking a distinctly different path than one of his highest-profile supporters in the foreign policy establishment, Zbigniew Brzezinski. com page for "The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy" by John Mearsheimer, a political scientist at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, a professor at Harvard University's John F Kennedy School of Government. The book argues that a highly influential assortment of pro-Israeli politicians, journalists and academics have succeeded in pushing US policy in the Middle East in directions that do not necessarily serve America's best interests. And, like an article by the authors that appeared last year, the book has caused a considerable stir -- critics have accused the authors of anti-Semitism, admirers have praised them for needed candor, and several institutions and organizations have turned down or canceled appearances by the authors, including the Graduate Center at the City University of New York and, the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. The Obama campaign says its ad probably appeared on the book's Amazon page simply because the campaign paid for its Web site to be mentioned on searches that included the word "politics," among other phrases, part of a publicity strategy being used by many 2008 candidates. Though the ad's link to the book was clearly unintentional, the campaign may be sensitive to any appearance of an anti-Israel tilt given that Obama had already met with a skeptical response among some Jewish voters this year. one of the enemies we have to fight -- it's not just terrorists, it's not just Hezbollah, it's not just Hamas -- it's also cynicism." At another conference in Washington in April, of the National Jewish Democratic Council, Obama chose his words carefully, while still seeking to show that he was not satisfied with the status quo in Israel: "My commitment to you is unwavering," he said in response to a question about Israel, "but the only thing I will not do is to relinquish the possibility that our Middle East policy involves more than just arms sales and military and strategic options to consider. There would be no such nuance from Obama when confronted with the Amazon ad. Campaign spokesman Jennifer Psaki told The Sun that Obama had not read the book but knew enough about it to disagree with its authors. "The ad has been removed from the site because the views of the book do not reflect the views of Senator Obama on the US- Israel relationship," she said. "Senator Obama has stated that his support for a strong US- Israel relationship, which includes both a commitment to Israel's security and to helping Israel achieve peace with its neighbors, comes from his belief that it's the right policy for the United States. The idea that supporters of Israel have somehow distorted US foreign policy, or that they are responsible for the debacle in Iraq, is just wrong." Brzezinski praised Obama for offering a "new face, a new sense of direction, a new definition of America's role in the world," giving the junior senator from Illinois a strong boost of credibility in the foreign policy department. He is expected to be at Obama's side tomorrow in Iowa when the senator gives what is being billed as a major speech addressing Gen. In the July-August 2006 issue of Foreign Policy, Brzezinski defended Mearsheimer and Walt, saying their article had "rendered a public service by initiating a much-needed public debate on the role of the 'Israel lobby' in the shaping of US foreign policy" and that they "adduce a great deal of factual evidence that over the years Israel has been the beneficiary of privileged -- indeed, highly preferential -- financial assistance, out of all proportion to what the United States extends to any other country." Of those attacking the authors, Brzezinski wrote, "Of course, stifling such debate is in the interest of those who have done well in the absence of it. Hence the outraged reaction from some to Mearsheimer and Walt." The Obama campaign tonight dismissed questions about squaring Obama's spurning of the book's authors with Brzezinski's strong defense of them against the "outraged reaction" of critics. Robert Wexler of Florida, offered a statement in defense of Obama, saying Obama has "been a consistent supporter of Israel and this is an unfortunate case of a fabricated controversy for political reasons." "I speak with him often on Israel policy," Wexler added, "and I can tell you firsthand that Barack Obama is opposed to the arguments presented in this book." User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. |
| www.csua.org/u/ji7 -> www.pbs.org/itvs/fromswastikatojimcrow/relations.html The story of Black-Jewish relations in the United States is a long and complex one.... Jews were among those who worked to establish the NAACP in 1909. African-American newspapers were among the first in the US to denounce Nazism.... FROM SWASTIKA TO JIM CROW creates hope and reminds us of a time in US history when the two communities came together. The history of this relationship is a tumultuous one, ironically full of ugly twists and turns interspersed with moments of real human transcendence. Shared Empathy Since the time of slavery, Blacks have in some ways identified with the Jewish experience. They compared their situation in the American South to that of the Jews in Egypt, as expressed in Black spirituals such as "Go Down, Moses." The longing for their own exodus inspired the popularity of "Zion" in the names of many Black churches. Black nationalists used the Zionist movement as a model for their own Back-to-Africa movement. lynching Public lynching of Blacks in the South Dachau concentration camp A group of American editors and publishers in Dachau are shown the corpses of prisoners during an inspection of the camp Courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives Over the years Jews have also expressed empathy with the plight of Blacks. In the early 1900s, Jewish newspapers drew parallels between the Black movement out of the South and the Jews' escape from Egypt, pointing out that both Blacks and Jews lived in ghettos, and calling anti-Black riots in the South "pogroms". Stressing the similarities rather than the differences between the Jewish and Black experience in America, Jewish leaders emphasized the idea that both groups would benefit the more America moved toward a society of merit, free of religious, ethnic and racial restrictions. From the beginning of the Civil Rights Movement, Blacks and Jews marched arm-in-arm. In 1909, WEB Dubois, Julius Rosenthal, Lillian Wald, Rabbi Emil G Hirsch, Stephen Wise and Henry Malkewitz formed the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). One year later other prominent Jewish and Black leaders created the Urban League. Julius Rosenwald and Booker T Washington worked together in 1912 to improve the educational system for Blacks in the South. Thus, in the 1930s and '40s when Jewish refugee professors arrived at Southern Black Colleges, there was a history of overt empathy between Blacks and Jews, and the possibility of truly effective collaboration. Professor Ernst Borinski organized dinners at which Blacks and Whites would have to sit next to each other - a simple yet revolutionary act. Black students empathized with the cruelty these scholars had endured in Europe and trusted them more than other Whites. In fact, often Black students - as well as members of the Southern White community - saw these refugees as "some kind of colored folk." The unique relationship that developed between these teachers and their students was in some ways a microcosm of what was beginning to happen in other parts of the United States. The American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, and the Anti-Defamation League were central to the campaign against racial prejudice. Jews made substantial financial contributions to many civil rights organizations, including the NAACP, the Urban League, the Congress of Racial Equality, and the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee. About 50 percent of the civil rights attorneys in the South during the 1960s were Jews, as were over 50 percent of the Whites who went to Mississippi in 1964 to challenge Jim Crow Laws. |