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| 2003/12/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11559 Activity:high |
12/21 Hah! Clinton managed to 'connect the dots' between Iraq and Al Qaeda,
why couldn't your little bush leaguer do it? Muahahahaha!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp
\_ Post the printer-friendly link if you're going to post a story:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3527&R=79F61E497
\_ Okay, so now you are agreeing with the Iraqi war because we caught
Saddam? Now it's cool to be Pro-War you're digging up articles
showing that the dems are agreeing that there is an Al Qaida and
Saddam connection? Boy, you commie left wing liberals sure are
standing on your last leg... You were wrong about Afghanistan, you
were wrong about Reagan, you were wrong about Iran, and you were
wrong about Iraq. The only thing you dems are good for is dragging
us into lost causes like Vietnam and Korea. Way to go.
\_ Whoa, whoa, whoa there. Since when was Korea a lost cause?
Yeah, we failed to unite the whole country, but the part we
saved sure turned out well. You should have said Solmolia.
(BTW the difference between Korean and Vietnam or Somolia,
that while the S. Korean's didn't love our soldiers all the
time, the did generally want us there.)
\_ Apparently you don't read enough history. Korea was a lost
cause and it cost Truman the election. The only reason the reds
stopped attacking was that relations were breaking down between
the USSR and Red China. They would've whipped them off of the
peninsula if the USSR had kept on supporting the war (it was,
after all, their jetfighters and their pilots). And I didn't
say Somolia because that's small potatos compared to Cuba (yep,
you dems lost Cuba too, and you also technically lost China to
after all, their jetfighters and their pilots). And I didn't say
Somolia because that's small potatos compared to Cuba (yep, you
dems lost Cuba too, and you also technically lost China to
the Reds, but then the Chang-Kai-Shek gov't was way too corrupt
to keep things under control).
\_ I pine for the days when they taught history in our
country's schools. Do the phrases "third UN offensive",
1951, and "north of the 38th parallel" mean anything to you?
Note that this was previous to any serious Sino- Soviet
breakup. -John
\_ While true that it cost Truman the election, that just means
it looked like a lost cause at the time. Also, Truman was
running the war like an idiot, so just as well he lost.
\_ Appearently, you guys have forgotten how Korean was divided
at first place. It is you arrogant American decided to allow
USSR to occupy Northeastern China and north of 38 parallel
of the Korean peninsula (instead of Chinese Nationalist
Army) after Japanese surroundered in the Yalta Conference,
in exchange for USSR declare war on Japan. Later, you
Americans decided that allowing USSR to declare war on Japan
and occupy Japanese islands was a bad idea after all, thus,
used nuclear bomb (read: WMD) on 300,000 civilians to end
the war quickly.
In all, USSR declared war on Japan for one day before
Japanese surroundered. Number of shots fired upon Japanese
by the Russians: ZERO.
\_ Except for the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05 where Japan
kicked Russia out of Korea/Manchuria, started by a
Japanese suprise attack on Port Arthur.
If you guys had any respect of sovereignty of a non-
European nation at first place (i.e. China) , none of this
nuclear holocaust and Korean War would ever happen.
\_ So China would never have invaded South Korea and force
reunification as was done in Vietnam? Neato!
Then again, you guys at the time were still in that White
Supremist mode... not just Americans, but French and English
turned around continue to occupies Algeria and Indo China.
Democracy? Human Rights? give me a fucking break.
-kngharv
as well. French, after crying foul for Nazi's occupation,
turned around continue to occupies Algeria and Indo China.
Democracy? Human Rights? give me a fucking break.
-kngharv
\_ Dude, EVERYONE has problems with Human Rights.
\_ Korea wasn't supposed to "defended" the US. It was a
mistaken statement by the US Secretary of War that included
Korea as a protectorate. After that it became a pissing
match once MacArthur decided to draw China into the war.
\_ So now you are trying to pass off Clinton's bombing of the
to keep things under control).
\_ I pine for the days when they taught history in our
country's schools. Do the phrases "third UN offensive",
1951, and "north of the 38th parallel" mean anything to
you? Note that this was previous to any serious Sino-
Soviet breakup. -John
\_ While true that it cost Truman the election, that just
means it looked list a lost cause at the time. Also,
Truman was running the war like an idiot, so just as
well he lost.
asprin factory in Sudan as some kind of intelligence success?
I guess it is about as real as Bush's WMD. At least Clinton
didn't lose 500 brave Americans over his goof.
\_ That many died a week in Vietnam because of
LBJ's "goof"
\_ No, I'm saying Clinton was able to successfully make the clear
connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq but that little
bush leaguer couldn't even when he had access to Clinton's
intelligence work. Unable to come up with anything new he went
in on the hope we'd find WMD because it was too embarassing to
use the good intel from the previous admin on the Iraq/Al Qaeda
connection. Bill Clinton: connecting the Iraq/Al Qaeda dots!
\_ Read the story. There is no "clear" connection, that is why
they call it connecting the dots. More like seeing things
that aren't there, if you ask me. |
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| www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3527&R=79F61E497 ARE AL QAEDAS links to Saddam Husseins Iraq just a fantasy of the Bush administration? The Clinton administration also warned the American public about those ties and defended its response to al Qaeda terror by citing an Iraqi connection. For nearly two years, starting in 1996, the CIA monitored the al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan. The plant was known to have deep connections to Sudans Military Industrial Corporation, and the CIA had gathered intelligence on the budding relationship between Iraqi chemical weapons experts and the plants top officials. The intelligence included information that several top chemical weapons specialists from Iraq had attended ceremonies to celebrate the plants opening in 1996. And, more compelling, the National Security Agency had intercepted telephone calls between Iraqi scientists and the plants general manager. Iraq also admitted to having a $199,000 contract with al Shifa for goods under the oil-for-food program. While its hard to know what significance, if any, to ascribe to this information, it fits a pattern described in recent CIA reporting on the overlap in the mid-1990s between al Qaeda-financed groups and firms that violated United States sanctions on behalf of Iraq. The clincher, however, came later in the spring of 1998, when the CIA secretly gathered a soil sample from 60 feet outside of the plants main gate. The sample showed high levels of O-ethylmethylphosphonothioic acid, known as EMPTA, which is a key ingredient for the deadly nerve agent VX. A senior intelligence official who briefed reporters at the time was asked which countries make VX using EMPTA. There are a variety of ways of making VX, a variety of recipes, and EMPTA is fairly unique. That briefing came on August 24, 1998, four days after the Clinton administration launched cruise-missile strikes against al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan and Sudan Osama bin Ladens headquarters from 1992-96, including the al Shifa plant. The missile strikes came 13 days after bombings at United States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania killed 257 people-including 12 Americans-and injured nearly 5,000. Clinton administration officials said that the attacks were in part retaliatory and in part preemptive. United States intelligence agencies had picked up chatter among bin Ladens deputies indicating that more attacks against American interests were imminent. The al Shifa plant in Sudan was largely destroyed after being hit by six Tomahawk missiles. John McWethy, national security correspondent for ABC News, reported the story on August 25, 1998: Before the pharmaceutical plant was reduced to rubble by American cruise missiles, the CIA was secretly gathering evidence that ended up putting the facility on Americas target list. Intelligence sources say their agents clandestinely gathered soil samples outside the plant and found, quote, strong evidence of a chemical compound called EMPTA, a compound that has only one known purpose, to make VX nerve gas. Then, the connection: The United States had been suspicious for months, partly because of Osama bin Ladens financial ties, but also because of strong connections to Iraq. Sources say the United States had intercepted phone calls from the plant to a man in Iraq who runs that countrys chemical weapons program. The senior intelligence officials who briefed reporters laid out the collaboration. We knew there were fuzzy ties between bin Laden and the plant but strong ties between him and Sudan and strong ties between the plant and Sudan and strong ties between the plant and Iraq. Although this official was careful not to oversell bin Ladens ties to the plant, other Clinton officials told reporters that the plants general manager lived in a villa owned by bin Laden. Several Clinton administration national security officials told THE WEEKLY STANDARD last week that they stand by the intelligence. The bottom line for me is that the targeting was justified and appropriate, said Daniel Benjamin, director of counterterrorism on Clintons National Security Council, in an emailed response to questions. I would be surprised if any president-with the evidence of al Qaedas intentions evident in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and the intelligence on chemical weapons that was at hand from Sudan-would have made a different decision about bombing the plant. I think you give the commander in chief the benefit of the doubt, said George W. Bush, governor of Texas, on August 20, 1998, the same day as the United States counterstrikes. Im confident hes working on the best intelligence available, and I hope its successful. Wouldnt the bombing of a plant with well-documented connections to Iraqs chemical weapons program, undertaken in an effort to strike back at Osama bin Ladens terrorist network, seem to suggest the Clinton administration national security officials believed Iraq was working with al Qaeda? Benjamin, who has been one of the leading skeptics of claims that Iraq was working with al Qaeda, doesnt want to connect those dots. Instead, he describes al Qaeda and Iraq as unwitting collaborators. The Iraqi connection with al Shifa, given what we know about it, does not yet meet the test as proof of a substantive relationship because it isnt clear that one side knew the other sides involvement. That is, it is not clear that the Iraqis knew about bin Ladens well-concealed investment in the Sudanese Military Industrial Corporation. The Sudanese very likely had their own interest in VX development, and they would also have had good reasons to keep al Qaedas involvement from the Iraqis. After all, Saddam was exactly the kind of secularist autocrat that al Qaeda despised. In the most extreme case, if the Iraqis suspected al Qaeda involvement, they might have had assurances from the Sudanese that bin Ladens people would never get the weapons. That may sound less than satisfying, but the Sudanese did show a talent for fleecing bin Laden. It is all somewhat speculative, and it would be helpful to know more. It does sound less than satisfying to one Bush administration official. So, when the Clinton administration wants to justify its strike on al Shifa, this official tells me, its okay to use an Iraq-al Qaeda connection. But now that the Bush administration and George Tenet talk about links, its suddenly not believable? The Clinton administration heavily emphasized the Iraq link to justify its 1998 strikes against al Qaeda. Just four days before the embassy bombings, Saddam Hussein had once again stepped up his defiance of United States weapons inspectors, causing what Senator Richard Lugar called another Iraqi crisis. Undersecretary of State Thomas Pickering, one of those in the small circle of Clinton advisers involved in planning the strikes, briefed foreign reporters on August 25, 1998. He was asked about the connection directly and answered carefully. Q: Ambassador Pickering, do you know of any connection between the so-called pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum and the Iraqi government in regard to production of precursors of VX? PICKERING: Yeah, I would like to consult my notes just to be sure that what I have to say is stated clearly and correctly. We see evidence that we think is quite clear on contacts between Sudan and Iraq. In fact, al Shifa officials, early in the companys history, we believe were in touch with Iraqi individuals associated with Iraqs VX program. Ambassador Bill Richardson, at the time United States ambassador to the United Nations, echoed those sentiments in an appearance on CNNs Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, on August 30, 1998. He called the targeting one of the finest hours of our intelligence people. We know for a fact, physical evidence, soil samples of VX precursor-chemical precursor at the site, said Richardson. Secondly, Wolf, direct evidence of ties between Osama bin Laden and the Military Industrial Corporation-the al Shifa factory was part of that. This is an operation-a collection of buildings that does a lot of this dirty munitions stuff. And, thirdly, there is no evidence that this precursor has a commercial application. So, you combine that with Sudan support for terrorism, their conn... |
| www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp ARE AL QAEDAS links to Saddam Husseins Iraq just a fantasy of the Bush administration? The Clinton administration also warned the American public about those ties and defended its response to al Qaeda terror by citing an Iraqi connection. For nearly two years, starting in 1996, the CIA monitored the al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan. The plant was known to have deep connections to Sudans Military Industrial Corporation, and the CIA had gathered intelligence on the budding relationship between Iraqi chemical weapons experts and the plants top officials. The intelligence included information that several top chemical weapons specialists from Iraq had attended ceremonies to celebrate the plants opening in 1996. And, more compelling, the National Security Agency had intercepted telephone calls between Iraqi scientists and the plants general manager. Iraq also admitted to having a $199,000 contract with al Shifa for goods under the oil-for-food program. While its hard to know what significance, if any, to ascribe to this information, it fits a pattern described in recent CIA reporting on the overlap in the mid-1990s between al Qaeda-financed groups and firms that violated United States sanctions on behalf of Iraq. The clincher, however, came later in the spring of 1998, when the CIA secretly gathered a soil sample from 60 feet outside of the plants main gate. The sample showed high levels of O-ethylmethylphosphonothioic acid, known as EMPTA, which is a key ingredient for the deadly nerve agent VX. There are a variety of ways of making VX, a variety of recipes, and EMPTA is fairly unique. That briefing came on August 24, 1998, four days after the Clinton administration launched cruise-missile strikes against al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan and Sudan Osama bin Ladens headquarters from 1992-96, including the al Shifa plant. The missile strikes came 13 days after bombings at United States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania killed 257 people-including 12 Americans-and injured nearly 5,000. Clinton administration officials said that the attacks were in part retaliatory and in part preemptive. United States intelligence agencies had picked up chatter among bin Ladens deputies indicating that more attacks against American interests were imminent. The al Shifa plant in Sudan was largely destroyed after being hit by six Tomahawk missiles. John McWethy, national security correspondent for ABC News, reported the story on August 25, 1998: Before the pharmaceutical plant was reduced to rubble by American cruise missiles, the CIA was secretly gathering evidence that ended up putting the facility on Americas target list. Intelligence sources say their agents clandestinely gathered soil samples outside the plant and found, quote, strong evidence of a chemical compound called EMPTA, a compound that has only one known purpose, to make VX nerve gas. Then, the connection: The United States had been suspicious for months, partly because of Osama bin Ladens financial ties, but also because of strong connections to Iraq. Sources say the United States had intercepted phone calls from the plant to a man in Iraq who runs that countrys chemical weapons program. |