Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2009:February:27 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2009/2/27-3/5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Health/Women] UID:52654 Activity:moderate
        *shocking* allegations.
        China denounces US 'rights abuse':
                China has responded in detail to a US report published this
                week criticising China for alleged rights abuses. Beijing
                released its own report on the US, saying crime is a threat to
                many Americans and racial discrimination prevails in social
                life across the US.
        \_ Chinese obviously doesn't know much about America.  American are
           actually very abusive in terms of human rights but we've just
           accept it as part of the norm.  example, USA has the highest
           incarceration rate, relatively high murder rate, Blacks/Latinos
           being jailed for drug-related crime are disproportionally higher
           than the demographics of the drug users, etc, etc.  And I haven't
           start talking about outsourcing tortures, prisoner abuse,
           detain people indefinitely without trial nor charges... I really
           don't know what is so special about China and their human rights.
           \_ We generally don't run over protestors with tanks here.  -tom
           \_ All of China is not Bejing.
           \_ Virtually no one in the USA goes to jail for just using drugs.
              In fact, in California, even many small time dealers may be
              released off the hook if caught dealing the first time. Those
              minorities in jail you're talking about are not there
              for just drug use. Most of them are recedivist dealers who
              negotiated a plea deal where they accept a relatively small
              jail time for drug possession in exchange for the judges
              dropping the more serious charges. They do it because
              most of them know their case wouldn't stand in court, and they
              would have to go to jail for much longer time. Just go outside
              of campus and see who is dealing drugs.
              \_ This is not true. I will do some research and get back to
                 you, but there are millions in jail in the US for possession
                 \_ Yeah. Please do so. Find and post whacked liberal web site
                    link of the week to support your liberal agenda. I know
                    second hand from people who had known others who had gone
                    through the system.
                    \_ Well since you put it that way, I won't waste my time.
                       Obviously your second hand anecdotal knowledge is
                       superior than any kind of fact-based reasoning.
                        \_ Please tell us about your facts. What are they?
                           You have a proof that the vast majority of drug
                           "users" were not jailed for dealing? No one goes to
                           jail for using drugs in California. That's a fact
                           "users" were not jailed for dealing? No one goes
                           to jail for using drugs in California. That's a fact
                           Even small time dealers get at worst a probation
                           sentense. Anyone who has gone through this system
                           will tell you this. People who are in jail for the
                           most part are real criminals. No doubt about it. You
                           will tell you this. People who are in jail for the most part
                           are the hardened criminals. No doubt about it. You
                           can't see who is dealing drugs in the Bay Area and
                           elsewhere? You still need to do research on that?
                           elsewhere? You need to do research on that?
                           \_ "No one goes to jail in California for using
                              drugs." Having a hard time tracking down
                              CA-specific numbers, but Bureau of Justice
                              reports 250k prisoners under jurisdiction of
                              state correctional authorities for drug
                              offenses in 2005:
                              If you can find a breakdown of CA prison pop.
                              that shows no drug offenders, your case is
                              \_ I don't know if he's right or not, but surely
                                 you realize that your link doesn't actually
                                 answer his claim.  (Maybe for the same reason
                                 as conspiracy theories are impossible to
                                 disprove, but still...) Especially since
                                 dealing is a drug offense... -!pp
                                 \_ Catch-22, then. I would like much clearer
                                    statistics, but the sources are hard to
                                    \_ Yeah, you'd need to find both: how many
                                       people are in jail _just_ for
                                       possession, and how many plea deals
                                       were struck to reduce dealing to
                                       possession.  And, you'd have to take
                                       into account the DAs who use a dealing
                                       charge as a threat to get a plea on
                        \_ You might be right, even the DEA is in favor of
                           treatment over jail for first time posession:
                           There's your wacked out liberal site for you, DOJ.
2009/2/27-3/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:52655 Activity:low
2/27    CA unemployment increases from 9.3% to 10.1% for Jan
        \_ Good thing the legislature passed the biggest tax increase in
           history!  That should solve it.
           \_ because cutting taxes has done such a great job so far!
                \_ it has.. giving mortgages to poor folks did us in
                   \_ 100% horseshit.
              \_ Find me an economist who thinks raising taxes will help
                 grow the economy.
                 \_ States can't run a deficit AND because of our fucked
                    up initiative system CA spending is pretty locked.
                    There's not much choice.
                    \_ I guess States need some of the stimulus money then
                       because the Feds can run a deficit. Raising taxes
                       right now is stupid.
                 \_ Raising taxes might hurt the economy less than cutting
                    services would.
                    \_ Those are not the only two choices.
                 \_ Once again, 100% horseshit.
                     "Drawing upon economic theory, we believe
                     reducing government spending will have a more
                     deleterious effect on Washington s economy than
                     would increasing revenue. Although both cuts in
                     government spending and tax increases have the
                     potential to slow economic growth, cutting
                     government spending would likely have the most
                     immediate impact by directly reducing
                     consumption. Tax increases are less problematic
                     because individual consumers, especially those
                     with higher-incomes, are unlikely to reduce
                     consumption by the full amount of the tax
                     increase."  (First hit on Google.)  -tom
                     \_ You do realize that all but a small handful
                        of the economists who are urging for higher
                        taxes rather than reduced government spending
                        in that letter are government employees,
                        right? 100% horseshit indeed.
                        \_ You asked me to find you an economist who
                           thinks raising taxes will grow the economy,
                           and I found you 20+ on the first Google hit,
                           \_ Uh, no. Those 20+ economist merely *said*
                              raising taxes would grow the economy. Whether
                              or not they actually *think* it will is
                              completely different. As I pointed out, they
                              were arguing for raising taxes in favor of
                              cutting state spending. Just casually looking
                              at where these people worked, all but 3-4 of
                              them were easily identifiable as state employees.
                              Do you want me to spell it out for you?
                              \_ Well, gee, pretty much all the economists
                                 who say that raising taxes is bad are
                                 wealthy taxpayers, so I guess we can ignore
                                 their opinions.  -tom
                                 \_ Before you were just dense. Now you're
                                    making imaginary arguments.
                                    \_ How is it any more imaginary than the
                                       argument that we should discount
                                       economists who work for the
                                       government?  Economists who don't
                                       work for the government directly
                                       benefit from lower taxes; by your
                                       "logic," we should discount their
                                       opinions due to conflict of
                                       interest.  -tom
                           including several who are not government
                           employees.  So, yes, 100% horseshit.  Want to
                           try moving the yardsticks again?  OK, here are
                           some more:
                           \_ These economists are comparing raising
                              taxes versus cutting spending, which is not
                              really the issue. Cutting spending right now
                              would be suicide. The alternative to raising
                              taxes is not cutting spending. It's running
                              a deficit, which makes sense to do during
                              lean economic times. During a Depression is
                              not the time to balance the budget.
                              \_ Nice job moving the yardsticks again.  -tom
                                 \_ You have a really low hurdle for
                                    success if you want to take the
                                    original statement literally.
        \_ This article says nothing at all about taxes versus economic
           growth, but it does point out that federal spending as a % of
           GDP is higher than historical levels.
                           Please discount those, too.  -tom
        \_ The guy in this article notes that the economy grew the fastest
           in the late 1990s when Clinton "briefly took federal taxes to
           20% of GDP". There is no correlation between the taxes being
           high and the <DEAD><DEAD> growth. I think raising taxes during boom
           periods is a smart idea, but the taxes were not the cause of the
           boom. At the article points out, when you raise taxes on
           cigarettes, consumption decreases. When you raise taxes on oil,
           consumption decreases. You think raising income taxes will not
           decrease consumption? Herbert Hoover raised taxes during the
           Depression and it was a horrible blunder. Read up about it.
           Let's not do that again.
           \_ Do you understand the difference between income tax and
              sales tax?
              \_ Do you understand the similarities?
2009/2/27-3/6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:52656 Activity:nil
2/27    Woah, check out inflation-adjusted home prices over the years
        \_ Yeah, during the top of the bubble people kept saying prices
           needed to drop 50%, looks about right.
2009/2/27-3/5 [Uncategorized] UID:52657 Activity:nil
2/27    Say you're upgrading your wedding band, what's a good place to
        trade in your old one?
        \_ You might start with the jeweler where you're getting the new
           one. They might even make the new one out of the metal from the
           old one, which would save you money and provide some continuity
           from the old ring to the new one, if you care about that kind of
           thing (which it sounds like you don't).
           \_ Yeah, I mean, metal is metal... is it suppose like, contain
              some type of soul or meta-aura inside it or something?
              \_ sounds silly but you will get serious brownie points for
                 saying "this is made from the same metal you bought for me
                 sweetie" etc
                 \_ Not just brownie points: sometimes it's non-negotiable.
                    When I broke my ring finger and had to have the ring
                    cut off, my wife _insisted_ that I get the band repaired
                    instead of replaced. YMMV. --erikred
              \_ If it's just metal why bother with the wedding band in
                 the first place?
           \_ I don't think most jewelers like to work with old
              metal--different alloys have different metal ratios and purity
              levels, and mixing two batches doesn't always turn out well.  But
              your best bet is to ask a jeweler who does custom work.
        \_ Cash4Gold
2009/2/27-3/5 [Computer/Networking] UID:52658 Activity:nil
2/27    I need to buy a wireless router, can u guys help me out?   I need the
        following features:  wireless, G or better, PPTP dial up, PPoE dialup,
        VoIP/SIP register, DDNS, uPnP.
        I am having a such hard time to find a review site which allow me to
        select these features.   Any ideas?  There are a couple model from
        this small company Draytek has these features, I am having the hardest
        time picking out Linksys/Netgear model that has similiar features.
        I want to by-pass China's great Firewall as well as using SIP VoIP
        servies.    thanks in advance.
        \_ uPnP is the first thing I disable on a router.  Why do you want it?
        \_ Would you consider having some of those features off the router?
           For the SIP bit, I'd consider Asterix on ALIX (
           and otherwise, WRT-54G with dd-wrt is pretty good.  Don't know if
           it has everything you want. -John
2009/2/27-3/5 [Uncategorized] UID:52659 Activity:nil
2/27    Q408 GDP revised from -3.8% to ... @!!% some ungodly number!  S&P
        beter be returning me at least 10% this year!
        \_ This is all Obama's fault.
2009/2/27-3/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:52660 Activity:kinda low
2/27    Stupid question -- I know I've been away for a while, but has
        anyone ever discussed something like a CSUA phpbb or similar
        setup?  I get the impression hardly anyone uses wall anymore,
        and I'm surprised the motd is still active.  -John
        \_ Yes.  I played around with it for a while, but people raised
           such bitching about the evils of phpbb that I opted to not
           implement my own forum software.  I agree it would be nice
           for people to get persistent discussions going. -mrauser
           \_ I have no idea about phpBB, but I would like something to
              replace the motd that new students can get into. -jrleek
              \_ I had an idea at lunch with Ausman today -- motd
                 anonymity is good, so create a dummy user.  Let people
                 log in with either their regular account (PAM auth
                 or something) or via the dummy user -- which then
                 requires an authentication process with CSUA
                 credentials to a user's account (to avoid anonymous
                 non-CSUA hosers.)  Don't log these accesses (or
                 maybe just "bob authenticated to the dummy acct. on
                 xyz date") and let authenticated users then post
                 anonymously.  Problem solved.  BTW, phpbb was just
                 an example -- anything web-based would do.  If this
                 is of interest to anyone, I can look into it.  -John
                 \_ I don't understand. The whole point of the internet
                    discussion is to have transparency and open discussions.
                    Why do you want to limit yourself to a few selected
                    CSUAers? A closed systems usually turns into flame-fest
                    with a bunch of same old cranky farts like holub.
                    \_ I don't think anonymous access is desirable or
                       aligned with CSUA goals.  It's basically a historical
                       accident, and it's not currently providing any
                       value to the CSUA.  It's not necessary.  -tom
                       [Some anonymous twink deleted this message--why is it
                       important for the CSUA to support that kind of
                       [Some anonymous twink deleted this message, twice
                       now--why is it important for the CSUA to support that
                       kind of behavior?]
                    \_ I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is
                       not a troll.  The CSUA used to be a good platform (I
                       have been out of the loop for a while) for connecting
                       students with alumni, among others.  MOTD is a
                       functional but archaic method for posting stuff, and
                       I don't think many people have the time or patience
                       to deal with it.  If you're interested in getting
                       students in contact with graduates regarding know-how,
                       jobs, whatever, you'll go for whatever works.  Second,
                       there are people such as you (since you didn't sign
                       your post) who want anonymity.  That's fine, and I
                       respect that.  Forced transparency stifles discussion.
                       I like the CSUA, it got me started with computers in
                       my career, and it'd be nice to give back; regarding
                       limiting discussion to CSUA members, I also maintain
                       stronger ties with alumni from my b-school because I
                       am pretty sure that they're of reasonably high quality.
                       Anyway, this all is moot if nobody's interested.  I am
                       happy to invest the time and effort if someone wants
                       to let me know.  -John
                       \_ There seems to be quite a bit of interest in this,
                          I'm interested, mrauser seems interested, tom is.
                          Even the current politburo seems interested.  There
                          was some talk about this last semester.  They
                          redesigned the website, but I guess they didn't get
                          around to the forum.  (Much harder, after all)
                          If you want to take it on, it seems like there
                          would be plenty of people to cheer you on. :)
                          \_ s/they/I/i. I redesigned the site because while I
                             could easily maintain the site, it required some
                             level of comfort with UNIX and the command-line
                             which quite simply most students nowadays lack. In
                             other words, I decided supporting Movable Type was
                             easier than supporting the older (and more flexible
                             IMO) system, since the current secretary isn't as
                             experienced with HTML, Markdown, Python, etc.
                             easier than supporting the older (and more
                             flexible IMO) system, since the current secretary
                             isn't as experienced with HTML, Markdown, Python,

                             Re: the forum - I wanted a forum, but politburo
                             last semester, while not actually opposed, lacked
                             any interest in me setting one up.  Some people on
                             motd complained about it and nobody stepped up to
                             offer to do it, so it died a quiet death. John is
                             100% correct on lack of time and patience to wade
                             through motd; my usage drops off significantly
                             when I have work to do, especially with all the
                             polticial-economic discussions I have no interest
                             in reading (that's not to say I'm not generally
                             interested in the topic, but let's not get into
                             that or start a flame war).  I still would like a
                             forum.  If someone here is willing to set one up,
                             I'd like that. --toulouse
                             \_ Someone at work set up a Simple Machines Forum
                                in like 1 day. I can't say how secure it
                                is, but it works. There are others.
                                \_ Do whatever you want to set up new and
                                   alternative forums, but leave the motd
                                   and wall alone for those who wish to
                                   continue to use them in spite of their
                                   limitations.  The arent doing harm or
                                   sucking major resources, and they have
                                   value to some, so no reason this should
                                   be XOR instead of AND.
                                   \_ Paranoid much? Why would we destroy
                                      motd or wall? They have basically no
                                      overhead. The point is to set up
                                      something that serves the CSUA's
                                      needs better, not to take MOTD away
                                      from alumni. --t
                                      \_ who is paranoid? a reasonable
                                         comment since turning these off
                                         has been proposed before and
                                         csua leadership has often gotten
                                         "no brainer" issues wrong. asked and
                                            \_ Except for the fact that I've
                                               made it abundantly clear before
                                               that I won't be shutting down
                                               motd. The fact that I'm using
                                               motd should tell you something,
                                               too. Looks like you got a "no
                                               brainer" issue wrong. :P --t
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2009:February:27 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>