Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 37319
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2025/07/11 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/11    

2005/4/22-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:37319 Activity:high
4/22    Thoughts on the "nuclear option"?  Seems truly crazy to me.
        \_ Is this in relation to something?
           \_ Uh..  do you follow the news at all?
        \_ Until both sides are willing to do a 24-hr round-the-clock
           filibuster, I don't think it's reasonable to even talk about it.
           You can break a filibuster with endurance if you're willing to stay
           up late.  And if the other side is willing to stay and fight it,
           maybe the majority should reconsider.  On the other hand, I think
           the Dems are going nuts blocking judges.
           \_ 10 out of over 200 is nuts?  Maybe the majority should remember
              what "compromise" means. I bet you'll be the first screaming
              for cloture rules to be reinstated when the D's take back the
              Senate.
              \_ Well, "10 out of over 200" is misleading.  The Democrats
                 blocked 17 of 52 Bush appellate nominees, roughly 1/3.  Of
                 course, the Republicans blocked 16 of 51 Clinton second
                 term appellate nominees too.  So the Democrats are slighly
                 less accommodating, but both sides play this game.
                 \_ I really don't mind "this game".  For the most part, these
                    nominees are fine.  When someone leans far enough to either
                    side to get more than 40 people to say NO, it _should_ be
                    a red flag.
                 \_ Explain to me again how this is "going nuts."
                    \_ Did I comment on "nuts" one way or the other?  I merely
                       explained that "10 out of over 200" is misleading, when
                       it was really "17 of 52".  Nor did I single out the
                       Democrats, when I took pains to point out that
                       Republicans did the same thing.  You need to 1) calm
                       down, and 2) work on your reading comprehension.
                 \_ This is a bit deceptive.  The Clinton nominees were
                    blocked, but by the majority in the Senate, not by a
                    filibuster.
           \_ You can approve judges if you can get 51 votes out of the Senate
              (or 50 votes + VP Cheney) every time.  Considering you have 55
              Republican senators, all you need are 50 rubber stamps to pack
              the courts.  Breaking a filibuster requires 60 votes.
              Filibustering is rarely used, because who wants to stay up all
              night when you could compromise?
              However, you can also get 50 votes to make a rule that says you
              can't filibuster anymore on judges.
              In which case, you can then employ 50 rubber stamps on any judge
              you want.
              Is this legal?  Yes.
              Is this good for America?  I really doubt it.
              \_ Don't you also need to attain cloture on a rule change?
                 \_ Apparently not.
              \_ Staying up all night sounds so theatrical and dramatic, but
                 in the modern Senate all that is required is for a senator
                 to state an intent to filibuster.  Requiring a senator to
                 pull an all-nighter might interfere with the real Senate
                 business of sucking up to special interests and banging
                 underage pages.
                 \_ What's your point again?
                    \_ Just correcting the inaccurate claim that a filibuster
                       requires a senator "to stay up all night".  Some of us
                       care about factual things.
                       \_ So all a senator has to do is "state an intent
                          to filibuster"?  What do they do after that?
                          Note how I haven't claimed "that a filibuster
                          requires a senator 'to stay up all night'".  Read
                          the wording carefully -- the words are "who wants
                          to stay up all night when you could compromise",
                          not "a filibuster requires a senator to stay up
                          all night".
                          \_ Well, the exact words were "Filibustering is
                             rarely used, because who wants to stay up all
                             night..."
                             \_ Why don't you answer my question, which
                                should address the key question of how
                                difficult it is to filibuster.
                                What does a filibustering senator do after
                                stating an intent to filibuster?
                                \_ Do?  Nothing.  If there are enough votes
                                   for cloture, fine.  If not, the filibustered
                                   bill gets tabled.  You might want to read
                                   the wikipedia entry on filibusters.
                                   \_ I did read it.  Please quote the section
                                      which shows (in more or less words):
                                      "If there are enough votes for cloture,
                                      fine.  If not, the filibustered bill gets
                                      tabled."
                                      Be very careful with your interpretation.
                                      \_ "What happens if the Senate fails to
                                         invoke cloture?   The debate
                                         continues. Generally, the Senate
                                         majority leader . in this case
                                         Frist . will simply give up trying
                                         to have the chamber vote on the
                                         measure in question and move on to
                                         another issue."
                                         http://csua.org/u/btx
                                         \_ What's your problem?
                                            Why aren't you quoting wikipedia
                                            like I asked?  You're the one who
                                            brought up wikipedia.
                                            \_ I am large, I contain
                                               multitudes.
                                               multitudes. --chiapet
        \_ The Constitution explicity names six instances where supermajorities
           are required, appellate judge nominations is not one of them.
           The use of filibusters to prevent nominations is historically
           rare, until Bush's 1st and 2nd term.
           A Senate majority is allowed to change procedural rules, and so
           they should.
           Lastly, it is a sad day indeed when espousing the beliefs of the
           founders, as did Janice Rogers Brown, makes you a controversial
           nominee.  Unfortunately this is not the first time.
           \_ "A Senate majority is allowed to change procedural rules, and
              so they should."  Just because you can doesn't mean you "should".
              Legal?  Yes.
              Good for America?  I really doubt it.
2025/07/11 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/11    

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Cache (8192 bytes)
csua.org/u/btx -> www.postherald.com/nw042005.shtml
l Nation/World l Gloomy Earth Day forecast has many green linings Environmental trends grow in popularity By JOAN LOWY SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE The forecast for Earth Day 2005 is gloomy with a chance of doomsday. In March, a sweeping study written by nearly 1,400 scientists concluded m ankind has changed the natural environment of the planet faster and more extensively in 50 years than at any other time in human history. Natural resources that humanity depends upon water, timber, food, fuel an d fiber, to name a few are overused and are in jeopardy, the study found . "A Short History of Progress" by Canadian historical philosopher Ronald W right was published in Canada and is scheduled for US release this mon th. "Our civilization will survive if we can live on the surplus that nature generates in all its various ways," Wright said in an interview. then we're on a path to bankruptcy and bill ions will die." There is, however, a green lining to these doom-and-gloom scenarios. The market for Earth-friendly technologies and products is expanding at a rapid clip. Here are five of the most promising green trends this Earth Day, celebrated Friday. Green cars: Making cars more fuel efficient and shifting to alternative energy sources has been a national goal for more than two decades. That goal may be in sight thanks to growing consumer acceptance of hybrid gas-electric cars such as the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid and Ford Escape. The Prius, the best-selling hybrid, gets about 55 miles per gal lon. Since 1999, more than 200,000 hybrids have been sold in the United States , according to the Union of Concerned Scientists. Hybrids still represent less than 1 percent of vehicles on the road, but with gas prices topping $2 a gallon, consumer interest is growing rapidl y, said Ron Cogan, publisher of Green Car Journal. Green buildings: In five years, the US Green Building Council has cer tified 213 commercial and public buildings as meeting its standards for energy efficiency, use of recycled materials, water conservation and oth er practices. Another 1,800 buildings are in the process of being certified. "When you think about how slow the building industry is to change, the fa ct that people are even following (the council's standards) is kind of a mazing to us," said Taryn Holowka, a spokeswoman for the council. "I think what has happened is we've changed people's attitudes." Also, the Environmental Protection Agency reports nearly 10 percent of ne w homes in some of the nation's top housing markets meet the agency's En ergy Star requirements. To earn an Energy Star, a new house must be 30 p ercent more energy efficient than required by regulation. Green roofs: These plant-covered roofs reduce storm-water runoff, air p ollution, energy bills and the urban "heat island" effect. 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In 1975, a new thres hold was adopted: requiring a three-fifths vote of the 100-member Senate . Generally, the Senate majority leader in this cas e Frist will simply give up trying to have the chamber vote on the measu re in question and move on to another issue. Adventurers in Central America and the West Indies who were stirring up trouble came to be know n in English as filibusterers, from the Dutch "vribuiter." In the 1850s, the term was popularly applied to quarrelsome lawmakers who were viewed as pirating the Senate floor. Generally speaking, the idea is to provide some protection to the minorit y If all votes centered on simple majority rule, even the most ill-cons idered pieces of legislation could be adopted over minority objection. ...