Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 33563
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2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

2004/9/16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33563 Activity:very high
9/16    http://csua.org/u/92m (SF Chronicle)
        Police escorted Sue Niederer of Hopewell, N.J., from a rally ... after
        she demanded to know why her son, Army 1st Lt. Seth Dvorin, 24, was
        killed in Iraq. Dvorin died in February while trying to disarm a bomb.
        As shouts of "Four More Years" subsided, Niederer, standing in the
        middle of a crowd of some 700, continued to shout about the killing of
        her son. Secret Service and local police escorted her out of the
        event, handcuffed her and placed her in the back of a police van. The
        first lady continued speaking, touting her husband's record on the
        economy, health care and the war on terror ...
        [Cue "Two Americas" footage]
        \_ Posted by someone who never served. Never understands why good
           people die. And most of all, looks very short-term.
           \_ you only read news written and posted by veterans?
              how many vets are there on soda?  like 5?  - danh
           \_ Please justify why 1024 Americans have died and between 7000
              and 17,000 (not including civilians) have been wounded in Iraq.
              Also please justify Iraqi deaths.  Thanks.
           \_ Also caused by someone who never served.  Never understands how
              needless war can be.  And most of all, is the president of
              excuses.
              \_ war is needless? That's like saying humans don't need to eat.
                 \_ "CAN BE".  Retard.
                 \_ Some wars are needless. Are you trying to say that
                    all wars are a good idea?
                    \_ I am saying war is as inevitable as you are alive.
           \_ He died for our oil and for war profiteers. Bless him. He
              certainly didn't die defending anything. (aside: Soda seems
              really damn slow lately. It's interfering with my trolling.)
           \_ Would you die for your country during WW2, or in Iraq?
              I think everyone agrees dying in WW2 would be worth it.
              Apparently this mother feels Iraq wasn't worth it.
              Maybe she should shut the hell up and salute the flag, since
              dying in Iraq is worth it, too.
                \_ if the Axis had won then this world would be full of
                   hot blonde women and hot azn women           -troll
                   \- and dubya would be the center of attention in a
                      bukkake circle! -liberal troll
                   \_ My history fu is weak.  Why was Nazi against Jews but not
                      Japanese?  I thought back then Europeans considered all
                      Asians inferior.
                      \_ Simple answer: strategy.  Hitler tried to rationalize
                         it to the public by saying that the Japanese were the
                         most 'Aryan' of the Asians.
                         \_ who would have won between Japan and Germany
                            if they fought each other one-on-one?
                            \_ Everyone else, really, but the real answer is
                               more complex.  At what point? With what
                               resources?
                               \_ Not to meantion, where?  Japan and
                                  Germany aren't all that close to each
                                  other you know.  And their militaries
                                  were specialized in different areas.
                                  If it was a fight in the middle of
                                  Russia (which seems the most likely
                                  place) I think Germany would probably
                                  trounce Japan.  In SE Asia, well...
                      \_ Nazis featured racist ideology, but it wasn't the
                         basis for their actions except with regard to fighting
                         a) Bolsheviks and b) Jews, perceived as having an
                         inferior, polluting culture and controlling business
                         and politics, and importantly being seen as communist
                         allies. It was also a rationalization for conquering
                         Slavic lands for lebensraum. The book "The
                         International Jew" was published in the 20's by
                         Henry Ford's publishing company. The inferiority or
                         not of Asians was pretty much irrelevant (except as
                         it brings into question the other racist ideas).
                         Ironically, Hitler's paranoia about communists had
                         basis in reality as Stalin spelled out a plan of
                         making all of Europe into Soviet states.
                         http://home.swipnet.se/nordling/Stalinspeech.html
        \_ With all due respect what are they supposed to do?  Let her
           scream, yell and disrupt the rally?
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

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Cache (1189 bytes)
csua.org/u/92m -> www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/09/16/politics1409EDT0616.DTL&type=printable
Woman wearing 'President Bush You Killed My Son' T-Shirt disrupts first lady's rally - JOHN P McALPIN, Associated Press Writer Thursday, September 16, 2004 (09-16) 11:09 PDT HAMILTON, NJ (AP) -- A woman wearing a T-shirt with the words "President Bush You Killed My Son" and a picture of a soldier killed in Iraq was detained Thursday after she interrupted a campaign speech by First lady Laura Bush. As shouts of "Four More Years" subsided, Niederer, standing in the middle of a crowd of some 700, continued to shout about the killing of her son. Secret Service and local police escorted her out of the event, handcuffed her and placed her in the back of a police van. The first lady continued speaking, touting her husband's record on the economy, health care and the war on terror to those attending the rally in this suburban community of 90,000 people near Trenton. She said that many in New Jersey, including some in neighborhoods near the firehouse, lost family members that day. "Too many people here had a loved one that went to work in New York that day," Bush said. "It's for our country, it's for our children, our grandchildren that we do the hard work of confronting terror."
Cache (8192 bytes)
home.swipnet.se/nordling/Stalinspeech.html
Stalin's speech to the Politburo on 19 August 1939 (Carl Nordling's comment: I hve not succeeded in getting an authorized English translation of the speech. If we conclude a mutual assistance pact with France and Great Britain, Germany will back off from Poland and seek a 'modus vivendi' with the Western Powers. War would thus be prevented, but further events could take a serious turn for the USSR." "If we accept Germany's proposal to conclude a non-aggression pact with her, she will of course attack Poland, and the intervention of France and England is then unavoidable. Europe will be thrown into serious upheavals and disorder. In this case we will have a great opportunity to stay out of the conflict, while being able to hope for our own timely entrance into war." "The experience of the last 20 years has shown, that in peacetime it is impossible to maintain a Communist movement throughout Europe that would be strong enough for a Bolshevik Party to seize power. The dictatorship of such a Party will only become possible as the result of a major war." We must accept the German proposal and politely send the Anglo-French delegations back home. Our immediate advantage will be the destruction of Poland up to the very approaches to Warsaw, including Ukrainian Galicia." "Germany has given us full leeway in the Baltic States and has no objection to our claim on Bessarabia. Germany is also prepared to accept our interests in Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary. At the same time, we must anticipate what will ensue from the destruction of Germany in war as well as from a German victory. If she is destroyed, the sovietization of Germany follows inevitably and a Communist government will be established We should not forget that a sovietized Germany would face great danger, if the sovietization occurred after a short war. England and France would then be strong enough to seize Berlin and to destroy a Soviet Germany. We would not be able to aid our Bolshevik comrades in Germany." "Therefore, our task consists in helping Germany wage war as long as possible, with the aim in view that England and France should not be able to defeat a sovietized Germany. Maintaining neutrality and waiting for the right time, the USSR will lend aid to today's Germany and supply her with raw materials and foodstuffs. Of course, we will not allow such shipments to jeopardize our economy or weaken our armed might. " "At the same time we must carry on active Communist propaganda in the Anglo-French block, and especially in France. We must be prepared for the fact that in wartime the French Communist Party must abandon legal activities and go underground. We realize that such work will demand great sacrifice in lives. The main task will be to break up and demoralize the army and the police. If this preparatory work is fulfilled properly, the security of a Soviet Germany will be assured. "For the realization of these plans it is essential that war continue for as long as possible, and all efforts should be made, both in Western Europe and the Balkans, to see that this happens." "Now let us consider the second possibility, namely that Germany becomes the victor. Some propose that this would present us with a serious danger. There is some truth to this notion, but it would be erroneous to believe that such a danger is as near and as great as they assume. If Germany achieves victory in the war, it will emerge from it in such a depleted state that to start a war with the USSR will take ten years at very least." On the other hand, a victorious Germany would have at her disposal a large territory. Over the course of many decades, Germany would be preoccupied with the 'exploitation' of these territories and establishing in them a German order. Obviously, Germany would be too preoccupied to move against us. There is still another factor that enhances our security. In the defeated France, the French Communist Party would be very strong. We would exploit thin order to come to the aid of France and win her over as an ally. Later, the nations who fell under the 'protection' of a victorious Germany would also become our allies. We should have a large arena in which to develop the world revolution." It is in the interest of the USSR, the Land of the Toilers, that a war breaks out between the Reich and the capitalist Anglo-French bloc. Everything must be done so that the war lasts as long as possible in order that both sides become exhausted. For this reason we must agree to the pact proposed by Germany, and use it so that once this war is declared, it will last for a maximum amount of time. We must step up our propaganda within the combatant-countries, in order to be prepared when the war ends." If we conclude a mutual assistance pact with France and Great Britain, Germany will back off from Poland and seek a modus vivendi with the Western Powers. War would be avoided, but further events could prove dangerous for the USSR." "If we accept Germany's proposal and conclude a non-aggression pact with her, she will of course invade Poland, and the intervention of France and England is then unavoidable. Western Europe would be sub-jected to serious upheavals and disorder. In this case we will have a great opportunity to stay out of the conflict, and we could plan the opportune time for us to enter the war." "The experience of the last 20 years has shown, that in peacetime the Communist movement is never strong enough for the Bolshevik Party to seize power. The dictatorship of such a Party will only become pos-sible as the result of a major war." We must accept the German proposal and politely send the Anglo-French mission home. Our immediate advantage will be to take Poland all the way to the gates of Warsaw, as well as Ukrainian Galicia." "Germany grants us full freedom of action in the Baltic States and recognizes our claim on Bessarabia. She is prepared to acknowledge our interests in Romania Bulgaria and Hungary. At the same time, we must look ahead to the situation that will follow and to a possible conquest of Germany. In such a situation, we must desist Sovietization of Germany and establishing a Communist Government there. We should not forget that Sovietization would only bring about great danger, if it should shorten the war. England and France are still strong enough to seize Berlin and to destroy a Soviet Germany. We would be unable to assist our Bolshevik German comrades." "In this way we will cause Germany to be able to wage war in the future, with the goal that England and France should not be able to threaten a Sovietized Germany. Maintaining neutrality and waiting for the right time, the USSR will presently supply Germany with raw mate-rials and finished goods. However, we must not send so much as to weaken our economy or the power of our army. At the same time we must carry on active Communist propaganda in the Anglo-French block, and especially in France. We must be ready for the time when, in that country, the Party should quit the legal means of warfare and turn under-ground. We know that their work will demand great sacrifices, but we trust our French comrades. The first task will be to demoralize the army and the police. If this preparatory work is fulfilled properly, the danger to a Soviet Germany will recede. It will also contribute to the Sovietization of France." "For the realization of these plans it is essential that the war continue for as long as possible, and all forces in Western Europe and the Balkans, with which we are actively involved, should be directed toward this goal." "Now let us consider the second possibility, a victory by Germany. Some think that this would confront us with a serious danger. There is some truth in this, but it would be a mistake to regard the danger as so close or so great as has been proposed. If Germany should prove to be victo-rious, she will leave the war too weakened to start a war with the USSR within ten years at least. She will have to supervise the occupation of France and England and to restore herself. Obviously, this Germany will be too busy elsewhere to turn against us. In a conquered France, the French Communist Party will be ...