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| 2005/8/24-25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39252 Activity:high |
8/24 "You know I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if
he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really
ought to go ahead and do it. ... We have the ability to take him out,
and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability."
-Pat Robertson, previously
"I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take
him out'. And 'take him out' could be a number of things including
kidnapping. ... I was misinterpreted ..."
-Pat Robertson, yesterday
"Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that
statement."
-Pat Robertson, today
\_ How do you apologize for being a total lunatic?
\_ Oh and I like it how figures like Robertson, Rumsfeld will deny
saying X when shown direct VIDEO proof of them saying X and think
that's just fine.
\_ For posterity, which Rumsfeld quote? Are you talking about
the WMDs east/west/south/north of Baghdad/Tikrit quote?
Did you mean Cheney instead?
\_ http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/03/ana04004.html
\_ An extremist religious figure preaching violence! What's that? He's
an American citizen and free to say what he likes? Wow, how the
a private citizen and free to say what he likes? Wow, how the
tunes vary.
\_ He has the freedom of speech to advocate murder, but it's a shame
more moderate leaders in his sect don't condemn him for it.
\_ That freedom is going away in the UK.
\_ While I'm no apologist for Robertson, I'd like to see the sentences
preceding the "it". People tend to be a bit sloppy about
antecedents, especially in spoken English.
\_ Corrected. I took the original quote from http://cnn.com, guess they
cut out the "You know" part in the text. Watch video here:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/24/robertson.chavez/index.html
If you ask me on the whole it still means the same thing --
his most recent statement spells it out pretty much.
Also, http://cnn.com should not have cut that part out. -op
\_ Still not enough context. I think he was talking about
assassination but I'd like to see the entire discussion, not
just that clip.
\_ For the sake of argument, what would sufficiently qualify
the posted statements for you?
Are you just interested in what he was talking about,
or are you really looking for some "out" for him?
\_ Well, ideally the entire conversation up to those
comments would be best. I'm not looking for an "out".
I've just seen enough stuff taken out of context to be
skeptical of any clip less than complete.
\_ The biggest out for Robertson would be pointing out
that if he said "Assassinate Saddam! Save money!
FREEDOM!!" pre-invasion, people who complained would
have been beaten down as Saddam-lovers.
Theoretically Robertson could have been talking about
how similar Chavez was like to Saddam (torture, WMDs,
he would destroy the U.S. if given the chance, etc.)
before talking about killing him.
Just an analysis by me, not statements of fact.
\_ I'm not interested in an "out". I'm interested in
figuring out precisely what he was saying.
\_ Why? Why are people supposed to pay attention
to what this guy says? Who the fuck is he?
\_ He's someone who meets with your president
on a semi-regular basis to discuss policy
and politics.
\_ Maybe we should concentrate on 'taking out' bin Laden. Do we
have that ability?
\_ Video of the statement: http://mediamatters.org/items/200508220006
\_ Longer than the http://cnn.com clip, but still incomplete. It could be
interpreted to be saying "okay, assassination is off the table,
but we should do anything else to get him out of power." I'd
still need to see the whole video.
\_ It could be interpreted that way, but you're really stretching
now. I think it's pretty damn obvious what he is saying.
\_ Yes, especially when he releases a statement saying:
"Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize
for that statement."
\_ Which strongly suggests he didn't mean assassination, or
he wouldn't backpedal from it. He makes crazy
statements all the time and doesn't back off from them.
\_ Uh...
\_ Okay, here's Robertson's official press release with the apology
http://www.patrobertson.com/pressreleases/hugochavez.asp
You tell me what he REALLY meant.
\_ Well okay then. So he clearly says that he said we should
assassinate him, and has now apologized. That clears it up for
me. |
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| www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/03/ana04004.html But This Time, a Journalist Actually Threw It In His Face. A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS Thanks to David Sirota of the Center for American Progress for spotting a nd forwarding this excerpt in which Rumsfeld is caught in a brazen lie b y Bob Schieffer of CBS. LINK for further proof of Rumsfeld's lie on "Face the Nation." Excerpt from "Face the Nation": SCHIEFFER: Well, let me just ask you this. If they did not have these wea pons of mass destruction, though, granted all of that is true, why then did they pose an immediate threat to us, to this country? And it's become kind of folklore that that's--that's what' s happened. SCHIEFFER: You're saying that nobody in the administration said that. RUMSFELD: I--I can't speak for nobody--everybody in the administrati on and say nobody said that. RUMSFELD: Not--if--if you have any citations, I'd like to see 'em. It says some have argued that the nu'--t his is you speaking--that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent, that Saddam is at least five to seven years away from having nuclear we apons. RUMSFELD: Well, I've--I've tried to be precise, and I've tried to be accurate. It--my view of--of the situation was that he--he h ad--we--we believe, the best intelligence that we had and other countrie s had and that--that we believed and we still do not know--we will know. |
| www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/24/robertson.chavez/index.html driving a car into a group of innocent bystanders, then I can't, as a Christian, simply wait for the catastrophe and then comfort the wound ed and bury the dead. I must try to wrestle the steering wheel out of th e hands of the driver." Bonhoeffer was hanged by the Nazis for his involvement in a 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler. Robertson's rationale for his statement remained unchanged. "I said before the war in Iraq began that the wisest course would be to w age war against Saddam Hussein, not the whole nation of Iraq," Robertson said. "When faced with the threat of a comparable dictator in our own h emisphere, would it not be wiser to wage war against one person rather t han finding ourselves down the road locked in a bitter struggle with a w hole nation?" So far there has been no reaction from Venezuela to Robertson's apology. Earlier Wednesday, on his "The 700 Club" program, Robertson said the medi a had taken his remarks out of context. Watch vid eo) The controversy began Monday when Robertson called Chavez "a terrific dan ger" bent on exporting Communism and Islamic extremism across the Americ as. Watch Robertson's comments) "We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," he said. "We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to ha ve some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." Chavez, a close ally of Cuban President Fidel Castro, has said in the pas t he believes the United States is trying to kill him and vowed that Ven ezuela, which accounts for more than 10 percent of US oil imports, wou ld shut off the flow of oil if that happened. Tuesday, the Venezuelan leader shrugged off Robertson's comments during a trip to Cuba. "I don't know him, and as far as his opinion of me goes, I couldn't care less." And Venezuela's ambassador to the United States, Bernardo Alvarez, said R obertson was "no ordinary private citizen" and demanded the White House strongly condemn the remarks. Full story) Bush administration critical of Chavez Chavez has built ties to Cuba since he was elected in 1998, becoming a cl ose friend of Castro's and selling oil to the communist island at prefer ential rates. The colorful former Venezuelan army officer has the widespread support of his country's poor. His opponents, largely drawn from the country's middle and upper classes, accuse him of undermining democratic institutions. In 2004, he won a recall referendum with the support of 58 percent of voters. He has become an increasingly outspoken critic of the United States, whic h he accuses of having been behind a 2002 coup attempt that forced him f rom office for two days. The Bush administration denied involvement but refused to condemn the att empted coup. Assassinations of world leaders have been forbidden since President Ford signed an executive order in 1976. The rule came after congressional hea rings in the 1970s documented CIA attempts to kill Castro and US inter ference in the politics of other Latin American countries. This month, Chavez warned that US troops would be "soundly defeated" if Washington were to invade Venezuela. Full story) Administration officials have been sharply critical of Venezuela, the fou rth-largest supplier of oil to the United States. During her confirmation hearings, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice sin gled out Venezuela as a "negative force" in the region, and Rumsfeld has suggested Chavez's government has interfered with the internal affairs of other countries in the region. Controversial statements are not new to the 75-year-old Robertson. He has suggested in the past that a meteor could strike Florida because o f unofficial "Gay Days" at Disney World and that feminism caused women t o kill their children, practice witchcraft and become lesbians. |
| mediamatters.org/items/200508220006 Discuss (101 comments) Robertson called for the assassination of Venezuela's president Pat Robertson, host of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club and founder of the Christian Coalition of America, called for the assassinat ion of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. And wha t did the United States State Department do about it? And as a result, within about 48 hours that coup was broken; Chavez w as back in power, but we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he's going to make that a launching pad for com munist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent. You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he t hinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. This is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has co me that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion wa r to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot ea sier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it o ver with. |
| www.patrobertson.com/pressreleases/hugochavez.asp Chavez repeatedly claimed that Americans were trying to assassinate him. In my frustration that the US and the world community are ignoring this threat, I said the following: Thanks, Dale. If you look back just a few years, there was a popular coup that overthrew him; and what did the United States State Department do about it? and as a result, within about 48 hours, tha t coup was broken, Chavez was back in power. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and hes going to make tha t a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all ov er the continent. I dont know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks were trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought t o go ahead and do it. Its a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I dont think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific da nger, and this is in our sphere of influence, so we cant let this happe n We have the Monroe Doctrine, and we have other doctrines that we have announced, and without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south , controlling a huge pool of oil that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exerc ise that ability. We dont need another 200-billion-dollar war to get ri d of one strong-arm dictator. Its a whole lot easier to have some of th e covert operatives do the job and then get it over with. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thin ks the US is out to kill him. Chavez has found common cause with terrorists such as the noted assa ssin Carlos the Jackal, has visited Iran reportedly to gain access to nu clear technology, and has referred to Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro as his comrades. Chavez also intends to fund the violent overthrow of democratically elected governments throughout South America, beginning with neighboring Colombia. As I report the news daily from around the world, I am acutely conscious of the fact that our nation is at war. Not only are there active wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but there is a war of terror being waged against civilized nations throughout the world. We are in the midst of a war that is draining vast amounts of our treasur e and is costing the blood of our armed forces. I am a person who believ es in peace, but not peace at any price. However, I said before the war in Iraq began that the wisest course would be to wage war against Saddam Hussein, not the whole nation of Iraq. When faced with the threat of a comparable dictator in our own hemisphere, would it not be wiser to wage war against one person rather than finding ourselves down the road lock ed in a bitter struggle with a whole nation? The brilliant Protestant theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who lived under the hellish conditions of Nazi Germany, is reported to have said: If I see a madman driving a car into a group of innocent bystanders, the n I cant, as a Christian, simply wait for the catastrophe and then comf ort the wounded and bury the dead. I must try to wrestle the steering wh eel out of the hands of the driver. On the strength of this reasoning, Bonhoeffer decided to lend his support to those in Germany who had joined together in an attempt to assassinat e Adolf Hitler. Bonhoeffer was imprisoned and killed by the Nazis, but h is example deserves our respect and consideration today. There are many who disagree with my comments, and I respect their opinion s There are others who think that stopping a dictator is the appropriat e course of action. In any event, the incredible publicity surrounding m y remarks has focused our governments attention on a growing problem wh ich has been largely ignored. Bring It On Read Pat's latest book, a collection of questions and answers from the po pular Bring It On segment of The 700 Club. Pat doesn't pull any punches in these candid answers to tough questions. |
| cnn.com -> www.cnn.com/ About 250 prisoners freed from Abu Ghraib The United States today freed about 250 detainees from Abu Ghraib prison, site of alleged abuses that prompted global outrage and led to days of hearings on Capitol Hill. Today marks the first mass prisoner release since the abuse scandal broke several weeks ago. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had visited the prison Thursday. |