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2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37624 Activity:high |
5/11 When I was really young, I used to think that suicide bombers were stupid because after they blow themselves up, there would no longer be any more bombers. I thought that if I had to bomb, I'd just place bombs around so that I can live the next day to bomb more people. Anyways, as silly as my childish idea may seem, what baffles me today is how bombers keep coming and coming, as if they're resurrected or something. Where are they getting these people? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4535323.stm \_ theres lots of desperate poor /expendable people in the third world. The _real_ bombers are the ones that are arming the suicide bombers and giving them the orders. \_ Yes, there is an unending supply of people willing to kill themselves. The only limitation is on the planning and infrastructure. \_ Because the population is infinite! \_ No, the population just has to reproduce more quickly than it explodes. \_ You don't undertand tribal societies very well. When you kill one member of a family, the rest of the family is honor bound to avenge the death. That is why our campaing to bomb the to avenge the death. That is why our campaign to bomb the Iraqis into submission is doomed to failure. We think of the self first. They think of the family honor first. \_ how is blowing up yourself outside of a line of dudes applying for a job avenging your family honor? - danh \_ Like I said, you just don't understand it. \_ Wasn't it Sun-Tzu or some famous general who once said that war cannot be won without psychology? I think this is a perfect example where we have superior fighting force that doesn't understand anything about psychology. Superior force != winning. \_ Li Zi said that if one is willing to give a way his life, he would trigger fear down to thousands of people. \_ When Bush decided to invade Iraq 2 years ago, I told everyone that it's going to be very similar to how Israelis and Palestians fight, that we (and civilians) would be on the receiving end of waves of suicide bombings. No one said anything, and some even shrugged it off because they're hot blooded and want nothing but revenge for 9/11. We have a lot to learn about ourselves. \_ I haven't seen the waves of suicide bombings in the US. \_ From my what my Syrian and other friends have told me most of the bombers either have mental problems or are borderline mentally retarded, and thus are vulnerable to brainwashing. \_ yes, and your point being...? \_ That it isn't cultural. \_ From interview given by NPR, most sucide bombers are Saudis, Syrian comes in second. \_ How come most armies don't use suicide bombers then? \_ I am not aware of any armies that do. \_ Early on in Vietnam War, NVAs would kill round eyes or S Vietnamese generals, take their clothes, then dress up as S Vietnamese soldiers. They got into the U.S. compound and at the right time, get close to American generals and... KABOOM! In addition, they used a lot of orphaned children (with backpacks) as bombs because they knew that Americans didn't shoot at children. They also wired up dead Americans with bombs so that when they're found, the rescuers would get blown up as well. While these things didn't diminish the US military power, it had detrimental effects on the morale of our troops. Needless to say, I think the NVAs were much better at psychological warfare than Americans. \_ Meh -- I don't think it was so much a matter of the NVA being good at psychological warfare, as it was a matter of the US being so bad at keeping up troops morale (not to mention being crippled by politics from the counter culture back home). There were just so many things wrong with the way the US was prosecuting the Vietnam War in terms of goals, strategy, philosophy, recruitment practices, etc. Relating the morale of US troops late in that conflict to ANY nation's efforts at psych warfare would be speciously conclusive. \_ The Kamikaze was on suicidal missions, although they used planes instead of bombs. used planes instead of bombs. I think the US military cannot give orders to go on suicidal missions. It can only ask for volunteers. Don't know about other militaries. \_ Japanese had a ton of different ways to commit suicide. Kamikaze planes are just the most famous. http://www.ww2pacific.com/suicide.html There is at least an oral history of Koreans and Russians suicide bombing tanks in WWII. \_ Luftwaffe pilots did suicide missions when the Red Army was closing in on Berlin. They fly their planes into bridges taken by the Russians to blow the bridges up. \_ A story that resonates w/ Poles is that Polish prisoners in German camps actually did suicide dives out upper-floor windows to land on top of and kill individual German guards |
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news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4535323.stm Printable version Suicide bombs cause Iraq carnage Iraqi Jamil Abdul Husain grieves for his killed brother Haydar Abdul Husa in killed in the Tikrit attack An Iraqi man grieves for his brother after the Tikrit attack Suicide bombers have set off a wave of blasts in Iraq, killing about 70 p eople and injuring more than 100 in the bloodiest day since February. The deadliest bombings were in Tikrit, where at least 33 died, and the to wn of Hawija, where at least 32 were killed. Suicide bombings and shootings rocked Baghdad, killing at least three peo ple. The attacks continue an upsurge in violence that has claimed more than 30 0 lives in the past two weeks, as US forces fight rebels in the west. Press mulls rising violence Laith Kubba, an Iraqi government spokesman, told the BBC that rebels were lashing out wildly, knowing their "days are numbered". But the insurgency appears to be gathering pace rather than running out o f steam, the BBC's Jim Muir in Baghdad says. See a graph showing the level of recent attacks The attacks came a day after the US Senate unanimously approved an emerge ncy spending bill authorising a further $82bn for US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other activities. Police targets Wednesday's wave of bombings began in the northern city of Tikrit - Sadda m Hussein's hometown, which is dominated by Iraq's minority Sunni Muslim community. Map showing locations of Wednesday's bombings in Iraq At least 33 people were killed and about 70 injured in a car bombing in a crowded marketplace, police said. The bomber had apparently been targeting a police station, but police for ced him to swerve into the market. Almost all the dead are said to be Shia Muslim civilians who had gathered to look for work. Ibrahim Mohammad, a migrant worker who saw the explosion, called it "a tr agedy", Reuters news agency reported. The militant group Ansar al-Sunna claimed responsibility for the Tikrit a ttack, saying it was aimed at migrant workers employed by a nearby US ba se. Scene of bombing in Baghdad on Wednesday Baghdad saw suicide car bombings and an attack on a convoy At least 32 people were killed and dozens wounded soon afterwards, when a suicide bomber with explosives strapped to his body hit a police and ar my recruitment centre in the northern town of Hawija. The bomber reportedly mingled with recruits before setting off his explos ives, a tactic that has been used at least twice before in recent weeks, our correspondent says. "I was standing near the centre and all of a sudden it turned into a scen e of dead bodies and pools of blood," police Sgt Khalaf Abbas told the A ssociated Press news agency by telephone. "Windows were blown out in nearby houses, leaving the street covered by g lass." Some casualties were taken to Kirkuk, the nearest city, because Hawija do es not have the means to care for them, AP reported. Kidnappings There were also at least four explosions in Baghdad, including a car bomb ing in the Dura district that killed three people and injured at least e ight. HIGH-PROFILE KIDNAPS Akihiko Saito Contractor, Japanese Raja Nawaf Governor of Anbar, Iraqi Mohammad Jalal Saleh Security chief, Iraqi Douglas Wood Engineer, Australian Marie Jeanne Ion, Sorin Dumitru Miscoci, Ovidiu Ohanesian Journalists, Romanian Florence Aubenas Journalist, France Jeffrey Ake Contractor, US Baghdad was also the scene of an attack on a police patrol in the Mansour district that killed two policemen and a civilian, Reuters reported. It was unclear if a third car bombing, and a roadside bomb aimed at a US convoy, caused any deaths. Not since 28 February - when 125 people died in a massive car bombing in Hilla - have insurgents killed so many Iraqis in a single day. US forces have been mounting a major counter-insurgency operation in the western province of Anbar, where they say they have killed about 100 reb els in the past several days. The governor of Anbar was kidnapped on Tuesday and rebels have demanded t hat the US stop its operations. A number of foreigners are also being held hostage - among them an Austra lian engineer seized in Baghdad in late April and a Japanese security co ntractor captured on Sunday. |
www.ww2pacific.com/suicide.html World War II in the Pacific Japanese Suicide Attacks at Sea. It is not uncommon in warfare for a wounded soldier to "Take one with him ." The most dramatic is that of a pilot on either side with a damaged plane with no hope of getting home to ram the enemy, either in the air, on the ground, or at sea. Japanese carrier-based aircraft attack Fifth Fleet covering S aipan operation; Japanese aerial counterattacks continue on TF 38, inflictin g damage on light cruiser Reno (CL-96) by a suicide plane. Late in the war, the Japanese established a policy of intentional suicide , called "special attack". From 24 October 1944, the policy of suicide attack inflicted much damage on the US fleet. Off Leyte, 55 Kamikaze pilots, in the first planned mas s suicide attacks of the war, coordinated with the IJN attack on Leyte Gulf, hit the escort carriers and sank the St. Lo (CVE-63) and damaged the large escorts Sangamon (CVE-26), Suwannee (CVE-27), Santee (CVE-29), and small escorts White Plains, Kalinin Bay, and Kitkun Bay. five ships were sunk, 23 heavily damaged, and 12 moderate damage. Off Okinawa -- Ten "Kikusui", swarms of Kamikaze, up to 350 attackers at a time, 1,900 in total, damaged 250 ships with 34 destroyers and smaller ships sunk. Several ships were damaged so badly they were not repaired. One in seven of all naval causalities occurred off Okinawa. This is a number sufficient to sink or damage 1,000 ships of an invading fleet. There were 104 build before the war ended, but had not yet reached combat units. Mitsubishi J8M/Ki-200 Shusui -- rocket powered interceptor. Japanese copy of German Me163 rocket powered interceptor fighter speciall y designed for use against B-29. The Baka piloted glide bomb was carried to within 12 miles of the target by a medium bomber. It would glide towards the target then activate roc kets (model 11) or jet engine (model 22) to dive into the target and exp lode its one ton warhead. The Baka was difficult to stop, but its mothe r plane was extremely vulnerable. Japanese make first known operational use of Baka piloted bo mbs in unsuccessful air attack against TF-58. Off Okinawa, destroyer Mannert L Abele (DD-733) is sunk by Baka--she is the first US Navy ship to be sunk by that type of weapon. High speed minesweeper Jeffers (DMS-27) is damaged by Baka and kamikaze. Mineswee per Gayety (AM-239) is damaged by near-misses of kamikaze and Baka. Ki-167 or Hiruy To-Go -- Bomber with 3 ton thermite bomb. A Ki-67 Kai (Peggy) twin-engine bomber with guns removed and faired over, with crew reduced to four men, a 6,400 pound thermite bomb was installe d with a blast radius of 1 km. Two are known to have been built, one sor ted 17Apr45 for the USN fleet and disappeared, likely shot down by a Hel lcat. Great numbers (6,200 Navy, 3,000 Army) were built and stored in caves for the invasion. LCI-365 and LCI-974 sunk by Japanese suicide boats in Lingayen Gulf, Luzon, Philippines. PC-1129 sunk by Japanese suicide boat off Nasugbu, Luzon, P hilippine Islands. LCS-7, LCS-26, and LCS-49 sunk by suicide boats of f Mariveles, Corregidor Channel, Luzon. USS LCI-82 and LSM-12 sunk by Japanese suicide boats off Okinawa. USS Hutchins (DD-476) seriously damaged by a Japanese sui cide boat in Buckner Bay, Okinawa, and not repaired after the end of the war. Fukuryu -- Human mine - Swimmers carry an explosive charge beneath a ship. Infantry landing craft (gunboat) LCI-404 is damaged by s uicide swimmers, Yoo Passage, Palaus. Japanese suicide swimmers attempt attack upon surveying shi p Hydrographer (AGS-2) in Schonian Harbor, Palaus. The army had developed the technique in Philippines and on Okinawa to att ack tanks by strapping explosive on a soldier who would crawl between the treads. I-36 launches Kaitens that damage ammunition ship Mazama (AE-9) and infantry landing craft LCI-600 at Ulithi. submarine I-47 launches Kaitens that damage US freighter Pontus H Ross off Hollandia, New Guinea. Operation KONGO concludes with Japanese submarine I-48 carry ing out unsuccessful Kaiten attack on US shipping at Ulithi. Japanese submarine I-47 (equipped with Kaitens) is damaged b y 5th Fleet surface ships/craft off Okinawa and forced to return to Kure for repairs. Submarine I-366, en route to take delivery of Kaitens, is da maged by mine off Hikari. Destroyer escort Gilligan (DE-508) is damaged by dud torpedo Kaiten launched from Japanese submarine I-367. Japanese submarine I-36 carries out unsuccessful Kaiten att ack on stores ship Antares (AKS-3) southeast of the Marianas, destroyer Sproston (DD-577) comes to Antares's aid, sinking one Kaiten and damaging I-36. Destroyer escort Underhill (DE-682), destroyed while interc epting 4 Kaitens from Japanese submarine I-53 off Luzon. Destroyer escort Earl V Johnson (DE-702) is damaged by exp losion--near-miss of Kaiten fired by submarine I-53, Philippine Sea. Destroyer escort Johnnie Hutchins (DE-360) on the convoy rou te between Leyte and Okinawa, sinks what may have been Kaitens launched by I-58. Japanese submarine I-58 conducts unsuccessful Kaiten attack on dock landing ship Oak Hill (LSD-7) while she is en route from Okinawa to Leyte Gulf. Although not intended only as a suicide weapon, survival rates were not h igh. All five in the "Special Attack Unit" used in the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor were destroyed. Midgets also attacked in Sydney (all four lost) and Madagascar in June'42. Five hundred 5-man submarines were being built for coastal defense with 1 15 completed at the time of surrender. Teenaged boys and girls were taught how to use grenades and spears. |