Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 11488
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2003/12/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:11488 Activity:nil
12/16   from the nytimes:
        "In a swirl of reports that some police officers joined the
        protest, Captain Challoub made it clear where his sympathies
        lay. "Why did they show Mr. President Saddam Hussein on
        television and humiliate him?" he asked. "He is our president.
        There must be some kind of immunity.""
        Even people risking their lives working for us didn't like
        their former president humiliated.
        \_ Clearly Captain Challoub is living in the past and needs a new
           job.  He wasn't their president.  He was a brutal dictator, not
           an elected president.  The only thing more stupid than this quote
           or your posting it is that I bothered to feed a troll.  Do us all
           a favor and delete your own post.
           \_ It's not necessary to tell us how stupid you are.  It is
              quite obvious that, elected or not, many Sunnis still liked
              Saddam, so why fan the flames?  "Bring it on!"
              \_ Of course the Sunnis liked being a minority group that got
                 to oppress the rest of the country.  I'm sure the South
                 African whites felt the same way.  Did you have a point?
                 \_ Oops, the Sunnis like Saddam.  We can't use the
                    "Liberate Iraqis from Saddam" as the reason for our
                    invasion anymore.  Let's change the reason to "liberate
                    the Shiites from the Sunnis" then.  Oh, wait, the
                    Shiites may not like us there very much either.  Maybe
                    we should change the reason to "help the oppressed Kurds
                    gain independence".  Or maybe we should dig up some
                    WMD, or maybe find Osama's mother in Iraq.
                    \_ Wow, nice way to go off topic and duck my question. I'll
                       take that as a win.  To answer your dodge, we invaded
                       because Saddam was a bastard and Bush Sr. screwed the
                       people over the first time and setting right his mistake
                       was the moral thing to do.  You understand what it means
                       to "do the right thing"?
                       \_ By itself Bush Sr. not going into Iraq is a valid
                          option.  Instigating a Shiite rebellion and then
                          not going in to help is wrong.  There are many
                          ways to effect change in Iraq.  10 years of
                          dibilitating sanctions followed by an invasion
                          and then a clumsily handled occupation is not the
                          "right thing" to do. ---- (*)
              \_ and many Germans loved Hitler.  Your point?
                 \_ Last I checked, Iraq wasn't occupying any foreign
                    country in the last 10 years.  Your analogy is
                    bogus.  In one case we are liberating the Iraqis
                    (only reason we have left), in the other we were
                    liberating others FROM the Germans.  Because of
                    that, the opinion of the Iraqis is critical to
                    the whole endeavor.
                    \_ By your 'logic' we should have stopped at the German
                       borders and left Hitler in power.
                       \_ I don't know where you learned your faulty logic.
                          When your reason for the invasion is to liberate
                          the Iraqis, you better be concerned about what
                          their opinion is.  If you say you are doing some-
                          thing to help someone, you should ask them
                          whether they wanted it, and whether your action
                          is actually helping them, or just for you own
                          selfish interest.
                          \_ Saddam invaded Kuwait. Part of liberating Kuwait
                             should have been removing him. Now it has been
                             done. The analogy to freeing Europe but stopping
                             at the German border is a good one.
                             \_ Your analogy is bogus (see (*) above).  Give
                                it up.
                                \_ I think it was the right thing to do and
                                   the only reason it took 10 years is because
                                   Clinton preferred to take no action.
                                   \_ And I don't think it was the right thing
                                      to do.  Thanks for playing.
                                      \_ Way to reduce your point to a matter
                                         of opinion.
                                         \_ The point has been made already.
                                            You only offered an opinion, but
                                            expect something more in return?
                          \_ The minority ethnic group in Iraq was in favor of
                             continued slaughter and oppression of the majority
                             of the population.  I'm sure you're aware of that,
                             little troll.  I'll bet you were in favor of
                             a political change in SA where the situation was
                             exactly the same.  The only difference is that in
                             SA the minority oppressors were white people and
                             we know white people are automatically wrong and
                             evil at all times, right?
                             \_ Ah, playing the race card again.
                                First, except for the Kurds, Iraqis are
                                ethnically the same.  The Sunnis / Shiite
                                distinction is religious, not ethnic.  The
                                Kurds are ethnically different but they
                                are Sunnis too.  Thus your "minority
                                ethnic group [slaughtering and oppressing]
                                others" is bogus.  There are many Shiites
                                and also Christians in positions of power
                                under the Saddam regime.  While religious
                                and tribal affliations do play a role,
                                it is not in the black and white terms you
                                portray, and your attempt to castigate
                                all Sunnis as oppressors is wrong headed
                                and naive.  If you disregard their opinion
                                and interest, democracy in Iraq is bound to
                                fail.
        \_ You need to realize GW Bush cares more about PR at home than PR
           in Iraq.  So what if Iraqis don't like us.  That just means we
           need to kill a few more insurgents.  Piece of cake.  But hey,
           got to win that election first.
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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