5/15    I'm naive and don't know all the issues there, but it seems to me
        that the root of the Iraq Civil War stems from the fact that three
        major ethnic groups hate each other and don't like to run the
        government together. Why can't they be split up into
        three separate Emirates, each governing its own affairs while
        having common Federal government-like structures like utilities
        and the military?
        \_ Short answer: the Turks (our allies) are violently opposed to an
           independent Kurdistan, because they think that would inspire
           further separatism among their own native Kurds; Iran would most
           likely annex (or at least welcome under their protection) an
           independent Shiite nation; and the Sunnis and Shia have wildly
           different ideas of what's Shiite territory and what's Sunni.
           That said, we may be heading in that direction anyway.
        \_ I'm just waiting for the headline "Bush meets secretly with Saddam
           for tips on running Iraq"
        \_ All the oil is in the Shiite and Kurdish areas.  Sunnis would love
           to have a share of that distributed through a federal apparatus.
           Shiites and Kurds would love to keep it, based on their people
           sitting on it.  How do you come to an agreement?
           With Saddam it was easy:  It all goes to Sunnis, and if you're
           unhappy with that, you go into the woodchipper, feet-first.
        \_ Did I miss something?  Iraq Civil War?  Anyway, the above already
           answered your core question, but most of the problems in the
           Middle East and Africa date back to European nations intentionally
           carving up tribal groups, drawing artificial lines, and generally
           creating such a huge mess of things that untangling them now is not
           as simple as just drawing new lines.  You'd just be making a new
           mess to replace the old one.  There's also this very new concept
           of "international stability" which is all about everyone shutting
           the hell up and dealing with whatever mess they've got.  Wars of
           conquest are no longer allowed.  Wars to fix the broken European
           lines are not allowed.  Nothing is allowed.  Buy Mcdonald's is
           allowed.  Those intentionally messed up artificial borders are the
           root cause of things like the Hutu and Tutsi killing each other,
           several famines, and a lot of other ugliness in that large part of
           the world.
           \_ So why doesn't Europe do more to fix these messes they've made?
              \_ why would they?  it was done intentionally and sometimes
                 through ignorance, apathy and/or expediency.  what do you
                 think has changed that suddenly the european powers would
                 feel the desire to fix their previous messes?  and where do
                 you come up with the idea that a) they have the power to do
                 so and b) the right?  why don't the locals fix their own
                 messes and redraw their own borders in a more sensible and
                 equitable way?
                 \_ Where do you come up with the idea that I came up with
                    the idea that Europe can or should do anything you stupid
                    motherfucker. I merely asked why don't they.
                    \_ First, they weren't asked; if the UN had decided to
                       invade Iraq, it would have attempted to draw equitable
                       borders, but the UN was ignored so now it's our mess.
                       And second, there's no reason to believe that
                       Europe (or America for that matter) can draw borders
                       any better than the people living there.  -tom
                       \_ They weren't asked to ruin these places by making
                          fucked up borders in the first place and that didn't
                          stop them.
                          \_ Therefore they should go in and make more
                             fucked up borders?  Do you have a point?  -tom
                       \_ Why are you limiting this discussion to Iraq?
                          Europe messed up Sudan, Kashmir, Rwanda also.
                          There's no shortage of other places to fix.
          \_ When sectarian violence is killing hundreds, if not thousands,
              of people every week, I don't know what you can call it but a
              civil war.
              \_ business as usual for that area.
                 \_ bushshit.
                    \_ its public info.  go look up the death tolls for iraq.
                       \_ How 'bout you provide the info.  This is a specious
                          claim.
                          \_ i don't know what you guys are arguing about, but
                             the Iraqi president said "1,091 people were killed
                             between April 1 and 30".  About 260 per week.
                             In Baghdad only.  Only bodies which got to the
                             morgue.