3/11 I am curious, what would the death penalty opponents say about
people like Brian Nichols? Or those who committed 911? Where
do you draw the line?
\_ You draw the line at "state-enforced execution." -tom
\_ So you suggest we let people like Brian Nichols happily
live in prison, watching TV, and pumping iron?
\_ Yeah, I'm sure prison is just like a country club. -tom
\_ Of course not. In a country club, you have to pay for the
food and the gym, and there's no free medical.
\_ What about state-enforced prison? Are you against
anything state-enforced?
\_ No. Don't be a moron. -tom
\_ He probably can't help it.
\_ I'm not necessarily against the death penalty, but I believe the
system can be improved. My opinion is that, while in the U.S. you
can convict someone with "beyond reasonable doubt", you should only
be able to put someone to death using "beyond any doubt" that the
defendent actually committed the crime.
E.g., the jury convicted Scott Peterson using "beyond reasonable
doubt", but I don't believe a jury could say it was "beyond any
doubt" he did it or had someone do it, and so therefore couldn't
sentence him to death.
Naturally things like state-of-mind (premeditation / heat of the
moment, clinical insanity, etc.) may be hard to include in this
equation -- unless for example you have someone telling several
people that they have nothing against Grandpa, but they really want
that inheritance and he's old anyway -- but that's the main tricky
part of the implementation.
Ideally, there shouldn't be a death penalty, but some system where
those who would normally be put to death would be punished with hard
labor and minimal comforts for the rest of their lives. But this
ideal may be hard in coming and in regulating abuse, so I'm not
going to preach on that, but push a "beyond any doubt" restriction
on capital punishment instead.
\_ So let's say they can't prove for _sure_ someone did XYZ. It's
OK to take away their life with a fate many would consider worse
than death: life in prison, but not OK to kill them, usually on
\_ What I don't understand are the arguments that support the
death penalty for reasons beyond what it is: (a) to punish,
(b) to set an example, (c) to remove a danger from society.
It is not a mercy killing, nor can you apply economic
arguments. I personally oppose it, although asking me a
"what if" question like this is basically the same as the
torture dilemna--in short, I don't know. I just wish people
arguing pro/contra the death penalty would be intellectually
honest and not use nonsense reasoning. -John
the argument that it's irrevocable. I would argue that life (or
even a long period) in prison is just as irrevocable.
\_ Let's take Scott Peterson. We can't prove for _sure_ he did
it or had someone do it. The jury puts him in jail for life.
20 years later, someone else says he did it -- Scott is an
adulterer, an asshole, a liar, and a poor excuse for a human
being -- but to a judge, he didn't kill Laci.
You release Scott Peterson. The government must pay
restitution and clear his legal record. The payments don't
make up for the time lost. For some people, this would be
fair. So, let's say we had someone truly innocent convicted,
like Dr. whatshisface from The Fujitive. The government would
pay restitution, but it wouldn't make up for lost time. But
that's life. That's not "OK", but it's the best we can do
with the system.
On the other hand, if you kill Scott Peterson and Dr.
Fujitive guy on "beyond reasonable doubt" and they both
turn out to be innocent, that's not "OK", and we can actually
do better with a "beyond any doubt" restriction on capital
punishment.
\_ That's just a more roundabout and less intellectually
honest way of saying that you're an opponent of capital
punishment. |