Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 32710
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2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

2004/8/5 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32710 Activity:moderate
8/5     And McCain says it better than I could:
        link:www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9327026.htm?1c
        \_ from http://bugmenot.com:
           login:jsmith123@hotmail.com
           pw:1234567
        \_ "I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I
           don't know if they knew all the facts."  So he condemns it without
           knowing if it's true?  My respect for McCain is waning.
           \_ perhaps he thinks they acted before they knew everything?
              \_ That's how I read it too.  The PP sounds like he's saying
                 "Dear God!  He formed an opinion based on an assumption,
                  rather than a gauranteed fact!"
        \_ Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day -- Jim Rassmann, who says
           Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on
           Kerry's boat, said the group was lying on all fronts. They say
           Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure
           fabrication." ... McCain: "It was the same kind of deal that was
           pulled on me ... I can't believe the president would pull such a
           cheap stunt." ... The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in
           Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed,
           Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in
           2000.
        \_ How does what McCain says bear any factual relevance to what
           Kerry did when he returned from Vietnam?  Why won't any of you
           leftists answer this question?
           \_ He's calling the commercial a dirty political trick, and compares
              it to what the Bush campaign did to him 4 years ago.  What Kerry
              did after Vietnam was condemn a war of which he had firsthand
              knowledge, a war which didn't need to be fought and which killed
              far too many young men.
           \_ Easy.  McCain says the Bushies found some vets to smear his
              record in vietnam.  If McCain is telling the truth, it would
              suggest that the vets dissing Kerry now are also making stuff up
              for Bush's benefit.
              \_ How many times do I have to repeat this.  I'm interested
                 in facts not the messenger.  Why are leftists so impassioned
                 about OPINIONS.
                 \_ Okay, let's discuss:  What fact are you looking for?
                 \_ There are no facts to discuss.  There's only what I think
                    about what McCain thinks about what some people are saying
                    about Kerry.  Don't start a conversation about people's
                    opinions and then complain that you wanted facts.
                    \_ The facts are what Kerry did in Vietnam, and more
                       more importantly what he did AFTER Vietnam.
                       \_ This thread is about anti-Kerry attack ads on
                          the Vietnam War.  If you have an issue with what
                          Kerry did after the war, you would do us a big
                          favor by saying what exactly it was, and maybe in
                          a new thread.  Or, you could stay as you are,
                          wondering why leftists aren't answering your
                          question.
                          \_ I have, repeatedly.  They are deleted.
                            http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Timeline
                            http://www.stopjohn.com/movies/winter-soldier.htm
                            http://www.stopjohn.com/movies/hanoi-john.htm
                            \_ Dewd, you're not going to get very far
                               with laundry lists from partisan web sites.
                               Pick one or two individual items you like, and
                               post it.  After you have established
                               credibility, the sky's the limit.
                               \_ Partisanship in the Congressional record...
                                  I see.  The audio is fake and so are the
                                  pictures?
                                  \_ Please don't forget the advice I just
                                     gave you.  Start with one or two items.
                                     New thread.
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

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ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Timeline
Upper Senate Park, Washington, DC Media Appearances Wednesday, August 4 at 12:20 pm Eastern: Professor Henry Mark Holzer will appear on the G Gordon Liddy show (national talk radio). Thursday, August 5 at 4:00 pm Eastern: Scott Swett will appear on the Sean Hannity Show (talk radio, Fox News, national). Friday, August 6 at 8:35 am Eastern: Scott Swett will appear on WCBN (talk radio, Baltimore, Maryland). later describe it as "a permanent international organization to aid or to conduct operations to help Americans dodge the draft or defect, to demoralize its army with anti-American propaganda, to conduct protests, demonstrations, and boycotts, and to sanction anyone connected with the war." The operation is staffed by undercover intelligence officers and funded to the tune of about $15 million per year by the Communist Party. Between 1966 and 1972 it will generate "thousands of 'documentary' materials printed in all the major Western languages describing the 'abominable crimes' committed by American soldiers against civilians in Vietnam, along with counterfeited pictures." International War Crimes Tribunal opens in Stockholm, Sweden, with Jean-Paul Sartre as executive president. The members of the tribunal are all well-known supporters of North Vietnam, and the "evidence" presented is supplied largely by North Vietnam, the Vietcong, and communist investigators. The Tribunal concludes that American forces are engaged in the "massive extermination" of the people of South Vietnam, and are committing "genocide in the strictest sense." November 20, 1967 -- A second session of the International War Crimes Tribunal is held at Roskilde, Denmark. Early April, 1969 -- US Naval Lieutenant John Kerry leaves Vietnam and is soon reassigned as a personal aide and flag lieutenant to Rear Admiral Walter F Schlech, Jr. with the Military Sea Transportation Service based in Brooklyn, New York. November, 1969 -- In response to a public call from the Bertrand Russell foundation in New York, Jeremy Rifkin and Tod Ensign launch a new organization called Citizens Commissions of Inquiry (CCI) to publicize American war crimes in Indochina. December, 1969 -- Kerry requests an early discharge from the Navy in order to run for a Massachusetts congressional seat on an antiwar platform. January 3, 1970 -- Kerry is discharged from active duty. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations," and that he wants "to almost eliminate CIA activity." February, 1970 -- CCI co-sponsors its first "commissions of inquiry" in Toronto and Annapolis MD, and begins providing accounts of war crimes to the press. During the next few months, the CCI holds events in Springfield Massachusetts, Richmond, New York City, Buffalo, Boston, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and Portland Oregon. March, 1970 -- Kerry drops out of the Fourth District congressional race to make way for antiwar activist Father Robert F Drinan, dean of Boston College Law School, and later becomes chairman of Drinan's campaign. Drinan defeats pro-war incumbent Philip Philbin in the Democratic primary and goes on to win the general election. May 7, 1970 -- Kerry appears on The Dick Cavett Show for the first time, speaking in opposition to US involvement in Vietnam. May 23, 1970 -- Kerry marries Julia Stimson Thorne in New York. Late May, 1970 -- John and Julia Kerry travel to Paris on a private trip. Kerry meets with Madam Win Thi Binh, the Foreign Minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG) -- the political wing of the Vietcong -- and with representatives of Hanoi who were in Paris for the peace talks. June, 1970 -- Kerry joins Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a national veterans group that is part of the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. The PCPJ is a broad coalition of local and national organizations, including the Communist Party, USA, "committed to conducting demonstrations aimed at ending the war in Indochina, and poverty, racism and injustice at home." The VVAW, CCI and PCPJ all have headquarters at 156 Fifth Avenue in New York City. VVAW Executive Secretary Al Hubbard, a former Black Panther, is also on the coordinating committee of the PCPJ. Hubbard soon appoints Kerry to the VVAW's Executive Committee, bypassing the normal election process. August, 1970 -- Al Hubbard asks Tod Ensign and Jeremy Rifkin of the CCI to join with the VVAW, the Reverend Dick Fernandez of Clergy and Laymen Concerned about Vietnam (CALCAV), Jane Fonda, Mark Lane and others to organize national hearings on war crimes. The American Crisis: "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink for the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." By the end of the month the Winter Soldier Investigation has been planned as a simultaneous event featuring "Vietnamese victims" in Windsor, Canada, and Vietnam veterans in Detroit, connected by closed-circuit television. September 4, 1970 -- Operation RAW (Rapid American Withdrawal). Some 75 VVAW members begin a three-day hike to Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. flyers to townspeople stating that they might have been raped, murdered or tortured by the US Infantry had they been Vietnamese, and claiming that "American soldiers do these things every day." rally is held in Valley Forge, featuring speeches by John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and Mark Lane. My Lai was not an isolated incident but rather a way of life for many of our military." VVAW Executive Committee meeting is attended by president Jan Crumb, executive secretary Al Hubbard, treasurer Jason Gettinger, Northeast representative John Kerry, and three others. The organization leadership decides to picket against the National Guard Association in New York, send Hubbard on a "speaking tour" with Jane Fonda, consider an "appropriate induction center action for purpose of making clear transition from citizen to war criminal," and "sponsor turn in of war crimes testimony to UN" after the Winter Soldier event. September 17, 1970 -- The VVAW protests the National Guard's national convention, handing out flyers that read: The National Guard Uses Your Tax Dollar: To support the military-industrial complex To honor war criminals - Westmoreland, Laird, Nixon, etc. To applaud campus murders by National Guard units To encourage armed attacks on minority communities October, 1970 -- Jane Fonda, Al Hubbard and Jan Crumb raise money for the VVAW and create new chapters through a nationwide lecture tour covering more than 50 college campuses. Fonda and Mark Lane also plug the VVAW during appearances on the Dick Cavett Show. November 22, 1970 -- During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience, "I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist," and "The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam." November, 1970 -- After a falling-out between Mark Lane and the CCI leadership, the CCI splits from the VVAW and drops out of the Winter Soldier event. The CCI turns to planning a National Veterans Inquiry in Washington, DC in early December. Fonda and Lane continue working with the VVAW on Winter Soldier. Conversations With Americans in the New York Times Book Review as "irresponsible" and details several fabricated claims of American atrocities. Publisher Simon & Schuster quickly cancels future printings of Lane's book. full page ad provided for free to the VVAW by publisher Hugh Hefner. The ad brings in thousands of new members during the next several weeks. January, 1971 -- Jane Fonda raises funds for the Winter Soldier Investigation through a series of benefit concerts. Participants include Fonda, Dick Gregory, Donald Sutherland, Graham Nash, David Crosby and Phil Ochs. Fonda is named Honorary National Coordinator of the event. Late January, 1971 -- Newly elected Congressman Ro...