9/8 You think the US has bad crime--a friend in London was just mugged
by a guy who hit him in the head with a machete and stole his
phone. Wow. -John
\- and we learn from this; it's hard to kill a person without a gun.
\_ He didn't want to kill him. He wanted his cell phone. No,
it's not hard to kill someone with a machete; ask 300,000
Tutsis. -John
\- if you look at stats, the types of weapons [including
type of gun] has big effects on the fatality rates
associate with crime. although the relationship between
crime rates and gun availability is complicated i
belive the numbers are quite clear the rate of people
killed is alot high when guns are involved. note also
it's a lot higher with long guns than handguns ...
so policy that affects the gun type mixture has
implications for fatalities as well --psb
\_ It's pretty obvious that more people will be killed
given that a crime is commited and that a gun was
involved (as opposed to a gunless crime). This
says nothing about the relationship between gun
availability and crime rate (pro-gun people claim,
probably justifiably, that guns are a deterrent.)
It's also troubling that moral implications
of reckless regulation of private lives does not
enter the discussion of policy.
\_ I'll bet if everyone (except felons, certified
crazies, etc) was _required_ to carry a gun,
stranger on stranger crime would be almost
non-existent.
\_ no, the attacker easily could have chopped up the victim with a
*machete* after whacking them in the head. you've learned
nothing, not even how to properly spread your FUD.
\_ "Hard" is not describing just the physical possibility.
Physical proximity increases the psychological impact
of causing injury.
\_ Anyone willing to whack someone on the head with a machete
for a cell phone doesn't have the same psychological limits
you and I have.
\_ as john said, the goal wasn't a murder. The goal was
a robbery.
\_ which isn't at all what the person above said about
hard. they were talking psychological limitations
to killing, not the attacker's goals. if murder
was the goal, they'd be dead no matter the weapon.
if theft was the goal, they'd point the gun, take
the cell and leave if the victim didn't give the
attacker any crap.
\_ Actually, no, I don't think crime in the US is bad. It's mostly
confined to certain areas of large cities which can be avoided.
This is a very safe country compared to most where you can get
mugged on the street by a guy hitting you in the head with a
machete for your phone.
\_ Interestingly, this doesn't stop Americans from being terribly
_afraid_ of crime, even if (and sometimes even especially) if
they live in areas where they are very unlikely to be victims.
\_ Homicide rates, Y2K, per 100K population:
50.14 South Africa
21.40 Russia
10.00 Lithuania
9.94 Estonia
6.22 Latvia
5.64 USA
2.94 Spain
1.81 Australia
1.79 France
1.76 Canada
1.61 England
1.42 Italy
you were a stree thug. I've got no sympathy for
1.17 Germany
\_ Do you have stats that break out cities vs non-cities for
any of these countries? The US non-gang banger crime rates
are probably lower than Germany's rate listed above.
\_ Crime is slowly spreading into the nicer areas so there is
some justification for crime fears but it is true that the
_current_ rates in those areas are still low.
\_ Unfortunately, some areas where people had to go to (like Berkeley
for school) has bad crime rates.
\_ You don't _have_ to go to a crime ridden city for school and
the city doesn't have to be so crime ridden. Get rid of
pro-crime groups like Cop Watch and you'll see crime drop even
in Berkeley.
\_ You know the crime rate has gone down in Berkeley since
since Cop Watch started in the late 80s, right?
\_ You're going to attribute lowered crime to Cop Watch?
You're nuts. I was here in the early 80's to now and
it has to do with more cops on the streets on foot and
on bikes being more aggressive with criminals during
the last 20 years. Next you'll be claiming that a
butterfly in China has somehow caused crime to drop
here as well.
\_ cops commit crimes.
\_ yes, I'm sure the dramatic drop in crime in
Berkeley is due to Cop Watch coming down hard on
the evil UCPD and BPD and keeping them from
abusing drug dealers and muggers by limited the
poor oppressed criminals civil rights and freedom
of movement by putting their sorry asses in jail.
\_ it's only a crime if you get caught.
\_ No, you are the nut for claiming that Cop Watch has
had an effect on the crime rate one way or another.
You are making a totaly unsubstantiated claim and
then when evidence is shown contrary to your claim,
you fall back on ad hominem tactits. Show me the
evidence that Cop Watch has caused increased crime
in Berkeley. The best way you could do it is to
compare Berekely with a similar city and show that
the crime rate dropped more in the other city.
Bet you can't do it, though. I think that Cop
Watch has caused the police to act more civilly
especially on South Side, leading to better
community relations and more respect for the
police, which has led to *surprise* a lower
crime rate. Where the police are totally out
of control, like LA Southside in the 90s, is
when crime goes up the most.
\_ The cops were always civil in Berkeley *unless*
\_ a BPD once yelled at me, "What's the matter
with you, you got your head up your ass?" And
he thought I was a grad student, not a punk.
\_ If you were pissing on my shoes I'd say the
same thing, punk.
you were a street thug. I've got no sympathy for
the trash crawling around Telegraph in the 80s.
\_ I lived in South Berkeley in the late 80s
and the cops were most definitely not civil.
\_ Me too. Never had a problem. Maybe you
should stop spitting on them.
\_ You think London has bad crime compared to NYC, LA, or most
large American cities? In Berkeley, some idiot shot and killed
a student for his wallet. I assume your friend survived.
\_ I remember when I was at Cal, in the paper, I read some guy was
mugging a couple on Channing St., and he gave them a count of 3
to give him their wallets. At 2, he shot the guy.
\_ Yes, there are many anecdotes around and no one ever said
Berkeley was a safe place anyway. And no, he didn't shoot at
2. The idiot guy tried to talk to his mugger about it and
settle their differences without violence. After all,
violence never settled anything, right? Yes, I was here then
also.
\_ I believe that they both reached for the gun.
\_ Must be a different dude. The deader I know of tried
the Peace & Conflict Studies Department method. His
girlfriend who handed over her purse is still alive.
\_ Is this the appropriate situation to claim,
"Isn't it ironic?" -alanis
\_ No, but it sounds good.
\_ Alanis was wrong. She sang of tragic, not ironic.
\_ Alanis was responsible for a whole generation
of teenage girls being taught to horribly
misuse a perfectly good word.
\_ teenage girls (and adult men and all between)
have been horribly misusing that word LONG
before anyone had heard of Alanis.
\_ you are wrong. She did not sing of
"tragic" any more than she sang of
"ironic". rain on your wedding day is
ironic if you think like a teenage girl.
It is not tragic. 10K spoons is neither
tragic nor ironic. (but more the latter
than the former). Only the plane crash
could be considered "tragic" by anyone not
an idiot, and even that is pushing it and
it also has ironic elements. (though that
is DEF. pushing it). Oh yeah, a no smoking
sign on a cig. break is ironic not tragic.
(if you are a smoker who expected to smoke
but who obeys signs). [formatd all over
this *mess*]
\_ Wow, you heard the same stand up routine
everyone else did and took it for your own.
You're obviously too clever for motd. |
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