Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:09 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2003/9/9 [Uncategorized] UID:10120 Activity:high
9/8     Prompted by the RIAA and their filesharer lawsuits-- is there a
        way for the victims to short-circuit the process, maybe
        Donate all assets to the EFF, declare bankruptcy and avoid paying
        the settlement?
        \_ a friend of mine had an interesting idea. a legal DDOS attack:
           if a million people all filed different, small,  suits
           against the RIAA about some bullshit, the net effect could
           be devastating...or could it? i don't know if this could work,
           but it's an interesting idea.
           \_ This sort of bullshit noise is made by some clown every so often.
              The courts are just going to throw everyone out before seeing a
              judge.  If it does anything, it will simply clog the small courts
              and prevent _real_ people with _real_ problems from using them.
              Boo fucking hoo on the music pirates getting destroyed.  Prices
              are too high or the music sucks?  Don't buy it.  Donating all of
              one's wealth to the EFF is *the* most stupid thing I think I
              might have *ever* heard on the motd.  You're going to go to zero
              wealth because the RIAA *might* take you to court?  Sheer idiocy.
2003/9/9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:10121 Activity:high
9/8     Any recommendations for a text-based Yahoo instant messanger app
        for linux that logs.
        \_ Yahoo::Messenger
           \_ what do you mean, there isn't a CPAN module by that name.
              \_ Sorry, Net::YahooMessenger, but really, you could have
                 tried searching.
                 \_ I did search for "Yahoo" at the CPAN list:
                    Why isn't that module listed there? BTW, I'm looking
                    for an application, not a library.
                    \_ Luke!  Use the source!  *WRITE* an application!  You
                       have the power within you!  Feel it!  Reach out to it!
                       Close your eyes, unload the IDE, and just *feel* the
2003/9/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:10122 Activity:very high
9/8     You think the US has bad crime--a friend in London was just mugged
        by a guy who hit him in the head with a machete and stole his
        phone.  Wow.  -John
        \- and we learn from this; it's hard to kill a person without a gun.
                \_ He didn't want to kill him.  He wanted his cell phone.  No,
                   it's not hard to kill someone with a machete;  ask 300,000
                   Tutsis.  -John
                   \- if you look at stats, the types of weapons [including
                      type of gun] has big effects on the fatality rates
                      associate with crime. although the relationship between
                      crime rates and gun availability is complicated i
                      belive the numbers are quite clear the rate of people
                      killed is alot high when guns are involved. note also
                      it's a lot higher with long guns than handguns ...
                      so policy that affects the gun type mixture has
                      implications for fatalities as well --psb
                      \_ It's pretty obvious that more people will be killed
                         given that a crime is commited and that a gun was
                         involved (as opposed to a gunless crime).  This
                         says nothing about the relationship between gun
                         availability and crime rate (pro-gun people claim,
                         probably justifiably, that guns are a deterrent.)
                         It's also troubling that moral implications
                         of reckless regulation of private lives does not
                         enter the discussion of policy.
                         \_ I'll bet if everyone (except felons, certified
                            crazies, etc) was _required_ to carry a gun,
                            stranger on stranger crime would be almost
           \_ no, the attacker easily could have chopped up the victim with a
              *machete* after whacking them in the head.  you've learned
              nothing, not even how to properly spread your FUD.
              \_ "Hard" is not describing just the physical possibility.
                 Physical proximity increases the psychological impact
                 of causing injury.
                 \_ Anyone willing to whack someone on the head with a machete
                    for a cell phone doesn't have the same psychological limits
                    you and I have.
                    \_ as john said, the goal wasn't a murder.  The goal was
                       a robbery.
                       \_ which isn't at all what the person above said about
                          hard.  they were talking psychological limitations
                          to killing, not the attacker's goals.  if murder
                          was the goal, they'd be dead no matter the weapon.
                          if theft was the goal, they'd point the gun, take
                          the cell and leave if the victim didn't give the
                          attacker any crap.
        \_ Actually, no, I don't think crime in the US is bad.  It's mostly
           confined to certain areas of large cities which can be avoided.
           This is a very safe country compared to most where you can get
           mugged on the street by a guy hitting you in the head with a
           machete for your phone.
           \_ Interestingly, this doesn't stop Americans from being terribly
              _afraid_ of crime, even if (and sometimes even especially) if
              they live in areas where they are very unlikely to be victims.
           \_ Homicide rates, Y2K, per 100K population:
                50.14 South Africa
                21.40 Russia
                10.00 Lithuania
                9.94 Estonia
                6.22 Latvia
                5.64 USA
                2.94 Spain
                1.81 Australia
                1.79 France
                1.76 Canada
                1.61 England
                1.42 Italy
                             you were a stree thug.  I've got no sympathy for
                1.17 Germany
                \_ Do you have stats that break out cities vs non-cities for
                   any of these countries?  The US non-gang banger crime rates
                   are probably lower than Germany's rate listed above.
              \_ Crime is slowly spreading into the nicer areas so there is
                 some justification for crime fears but it is true that the
                 _current_ rates in those areas are still low.
           \_ Unfortunately, some areas where people had to go to (like Berkeley
              for school) has bad crime rates.
              \_ You don't _have_ to go to a crime ridden city for school and
                 the city doesn't have to be so crime ridden.  Get rid of
                 pro-crime groups like Cop Watch and you'll see crime drop even
                 in Berkeley.
                 \_ You know the crime rate has gone down in Berkeley since
                    since Cop Watch started in the late 80s, right?
                    \_ You're going to attribute lowered crime to Cop Watch?
                       You're nuts.  I was here in the early 80's to now and
                       it has to do with more cops on the streets on foot and
                       on bikes being more aggressive with criminals during
                       the last 20 years.  Next you'll be claiming that a
                       butterfly in China has somehow caused crime to drop
                       here as well.
                       \_ cops commit crimes.
                          \_ yes, I'm sure the dramatic drop in crime in
                             Berkeley is due to Cop Watch coming down hard on
                             the evil UCPD and BPD and keeping them from
                             abusing drug dealers and muggers by limited the
                             poor oppressed criminals civil rights and freedom
                             of movement by putting their sorry asses in jail.
                          \_ it's only a crime if you get caught.
                       \_ No, you are the nut for claiming that Cop Watch has
                          had an effect on the crime rate one way or another.
                          You are making a totaly unsubstantiated claim and
                          then when evidence is shown contrary to your claim,
                          you fall back on ad hominem tactits. Show me the
                          evidence that Cop Watch has caused increased crime
                          in Berkeley. The best way you could do it is to
                          compare Berekely with a similar city and show that
                          the crime rate dropped more in the other city.
                          Bet you can't do it, though. I think that Cop
                          Watch has caused the police to act more civilly
                          especially on South Side, leading to better
                          community relations and more respect for the
                          police, which has led to *surprise* a lower
                          crime rate. Where the police are totally out
                          of control, like LA Southside in the 90s, is
                          when crime goes up the most.
                          \_ The cops were always civil in Berkeley *unless*
                             \_ a BPD once yelled at me, "What's the matter
                                with you, you got your head up your ass?" And
                                he thought I was a grad student, not a punk.
                                \_ If you were pissing on my shoes I'd say the
                                   same thing, punk.
                             you were a street thug.  I've got no sympathy for
                             the trash crawling around Telegraph in the 80s.
                             \_ I lived in South Berkeley in the late 80s
                                and the cops were most definitely not civil.
                                \_ Me too.  Never had a problem.  Maybe you
                                   should stop spitting on them.
        \_ You think London has bad crime compared to NYC, LA, or most
           large American cities? In Berkeley, some idiot shot and killed
           a student for his wallet. I assume your friend survived.
           \_ I remember when I was at Cal, in the paper, I read some guy was
              mugging a couple on Channing St., and he gave them a count of 3
              to give him their wallets. At 2, he shot the guy.
              \_ Yes, there are many anecdotes around and no one ever said
                 Berkeley was a safe place anyway.  And no, he didn't shoot at
                 2.  The idiot guy tried to talk to his mugger about it and
                 settle their differences without violence.  After all,
                 violence never settled anything, right?  Yes, I was here then
                 \_ I believe that they both reached for the gun.
                    \_ Must be a different dude.  The deader I know of tried
                       the Peace & Conflict Studies Department method.  His
                       girlfriend who handed over her purse is still alive.
                       \_ Is this the appropriate situation to claim,
                          "Isn't it ironic?" -alanis
                          \_ No, but it sounds good.
                          \_ Alanis was wrong. She sang of tragic, not ironic.
                             \_ Alanis was responsible for a whole generation
                                of teenage girls being taught to horribly
                                misuse a perfectly good word.
                                \_ teenage girls (and adult men and all between)
                                   have been horribly misusing that word LONG
                                   before anyone had heard of Alanis.
                                \_ you are wrong.  She did not sing of
                                   "tragic" any more than she sang of
                                   "ironic".  rain on your wedding day is
                                   ironic if you think like a teenage girl.
                                   It is not tragic.  10K spoons is neither
                                   tragic nor ironic. (but more the latter
                                   than the former).  Only the plane crash
                                   could be considered "tragic" by anyone not
                                   an idiot, and even that is pushing it and
                                   it also has ironic elements.  (though that
                                   is DEF. pushing it).  Oh yeah, a no smoking
                                   sign on a cig. break is ironic not tragic.
                                   (if you are a smoker who expected to smoke
                                   but who obeys signs).  [formatd all over
                                   this *mess*]
                             \_ Wow, you heard the same stand up routine
                                everyone else did and took it for your own.
                                You're obviously too clever for motd.
2003/9/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:10123 Activity:high
        Dean: the party of young rich white educated geeky people.
        \_ why should black people vote for Bush as opposed to Dean?
           I am too tired to tell you right now why that article is
           \_ what an amazing cop-out.  you're too tired?  than dont respond
              at all.  you're wasting bits.
              \_ Ah, yes, bits, that unrenewable resource.  Dude, the motd is
                 a waste of bits.  Deal.
        \_ what a dumb article. "More than 6 in 10 whites describe themselves as
           Internet users, while about half of blacks say they use it". Notice
           the capitalized Internet and the attempted distinction between "about
           half" and "6 in 10".
           \_ Why should black people vote for Dean?  Why should the color of
              one's skin have any relation to their politics?
              \_ spoken by a true white boy
                 \_ not white and you still didn't answer anything, but i don't
                    expect you to because the answers don't fit your agenda.
                    1) they shouldn't, 2) it doesn't.
              \_ beats the hell out of me.  why don't you ask the NAACP?
                 \_ naacp?  i don't hang out with racists, thanks.
           \_ You're viewing the article in the wrong light. Dean needs the
              Dem nom first. There are more minorities in the Dem party. The
              ability to relate to minority POV is thus, more significant.
2003/9/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:10124 Activity:moderate
9/9     If they are going to come up with four blade razors, why doesn't
        the next company just make five blade razors?
        \_ "This one goes to eleven!"
        \_ "But this one goes to eleven!"
        \_ SNL. Patented 13th blade for that extra close shave.
        \_ Just pull the whole piece out.  No shaving need for the next few
2003/9/9-10 [Computer/Networking] UID:10125 Activity:kinda low
9/9     why does ping <DEAD><DEAD> returns localloop ip (
        \_ cause somebody is bad.    dig <DEAD><DEAD>
          \_ you mean they can fool ping to think it's the localloop ip?
2003/9/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:10126 Activity:nil
9/9     Have you guys ever on CSUA experience some lag from time to time while
        typing in a doc, or composing an email?  It just happened to me again
        while I was typing this message, it appears to pause for a sec or two.
        Is this the result of someone on soda running some cpu intensive tasks?
        \_ This is generally from network usage at Cal.  The kids are back in
           town and firing up their gnutella clients.
        \_ Yeah I experience it all the time, it it network lag for me.
           I blame it on the file sharers at work.
2003/9/9 [Health, Health/Disease/General] UID:29523 Activity:high
9/8     Nearly the saddest thing I've ever read.  ( site)
        \_ Wow, playing counterstrike and warcraft
           now counts as exercise.
           The walking bits gets me. Why is walking
           consider moderate excersize?
           \_ THAT gets you? What about the purposeless wandering?
              \_ I dunno, I can purposelessly wander pretty damn fast.
              \_ cool, my life is "light exercise"!
        \_ I dunno, can anybody find the document that article used as a
           source? The most likely candidate I could find was this:
           which makes it seem to me like that article is a gross
           \_ Of course the article is crap.  It isn't mainsteam media's job
              to inform but to create new and manipulate popular opinion to be
              more in line with what the reporters and their editors want you
              to believe.
2003/9/9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:29524 Activity:insanely high
        Sigh... once again world leaders were unprepared for the obvious and
        easily foreseen.  Only a week ago Japan announced they're going to
        _start_ spending $2b/year for the next 5+ years.  SK has no plans for
        defense at all.  And in the next year we have a good chance of seeing
        a few million people anywhere in the region go up in smoke.  Literally.
        \_ According to the 2003 CIA world factbook the military budgets
           for these countries in 2002 were (roughly):
           S. Korea:  $13B
           Japan: $40B
           \_ Percentage for missile defense?  near zero.
        \_ Kim Jong-Il isn't going to do anything. Why not?  Because he'll
           lose if he tries.  Kim Jong-Il's most important goal is survival.
           He merely wants to give off the appearance of being crazy so he
           can blackmail donor countries.  If he did anything, we would
           invade and he would lose. for sure.
                  \- it's probably actually the case that NKorea is
                     willing to "bid" to higher risk levels. going with
                     the poker analogy, bluffing might be just that when
                     it comes to a single round of poker, but the willingness
                     to run higher risks has implications across repeated
                     interactions. in a MAD world you dont directly threaten
                     the other side, but you threten the other side with
                     your willingness to risk things going out of control.
                     this model applies in a certain modified way in the
                     north korean case. lit. references skipped. BTW,
                     pico iyer has an interesting travel essay on NK
                     from a few yrs back in "tropical classical" i think.
                     there is also an interesting frontline on NK. --psb
           \_ You know, that's very similar to what people said about Saddam
              Hussein: he'd either use/have WMD's or allow the inspectors in.
              1) we haven't found WMD's (which of course brings up nasty
              questions of either intelligence failure or someone else getting
              the weapons.
              2) he didn't let inspectors in
                 \_ uhh, revisionist history here?
                    \_ Thanks for the correction--I must be hanging out with the
                       wrong crowd.  His obstruction in 1994 led the inspectors
                       to believe that they couldn't accomplish anything (and
                       hence the left).  The UN resolutions in 2002-2003 were
                       for Hussein to lead the inspectors to WMD's or produce
                       evidence that the weapons had been destroyed.  No one
                       expected him to let his country be invaded rather than
                        \_ the inspectors left in 1998.  Not 1994.  Also
                           he did start producing serious evidence there were
                           no WMDs, but the adminstration went to the
                           the rest of the world and said he was lieing and
                           they had evidence to prove it.  Funny how now they
                           are backing away from that and hoping most people
                           wont notice or care.  Which is working in the US
                           but isn't working too well outside of the country.
                           And as has been proven recently the US CAN'T go
                           it alone unless they are willing to make sacrafices
                           and pay through the nose.
                           \_ His evidence was late and weak thus leading to
                              the reasonable assumption + intelligence that
                              there were easily found WMD.  Hussein's actions
                              still make no sense.  We had a large force at
                              his southern border and were making preparations
                              to invade that were so obvious CNN was showing
                              the work being done on international TV and he
                              still wouldn't blink.
                              \_ Perhaps he was not willing to fully
                                 cooperate because US is bombing his
                                 military capabilities even beyond the no
                                 fly zone, and has pretty much stated that
                                 we would try to assasinate Saddam if we
                                 find the chance?
                                 \_ No, your timeline is way off.  We were
                                    *way* beyond no fly zones and other
                                    sanctions era garbage at this point.  If
                                    he didn't blink it was clear he'd get
                                    invaded and crushed, party over.  No blink.
                                    You can't judge foreign leaders based on
                                    your local concept of common sense.
                                    \_ It was clear to him he would
                                       get invaded no matter whether he
                                       blinked or not.  US special forces
                                       is all over Iraq by that point, and
                                       condition for no invasion is for
                                       Saddam to step down and go into exile.
                                       Exile means US can assasinate him
                                       anytime it wants.  The voluminous
                                       evidence (several thousand pages) is
           \_ So how much of your half-eaten Cheetos did you spew all over
              your screen while typing that?
                                       not weak but as much as he can provide
                                       given that, as we now know, he really
                                       doesn't have any WMD.
                           \_ Obviously I need to stop posting late at night.
              There is no sane explanation for Hussein's actions.  Why do you
              expect Kim Jong-Il to be different?
           \_ There's a really interesting long ass article about
              Kim Jong-Il in last week's new yorker, I guess I could
              post it somewhere if you're interested.   now I feel
              like psb, this sucks. - danh
              \- evolutionary ameliorism
           \_ So you work for the State Department and have access to the
              psych profiles of foreign leaders?  What security clearance
              does that require?  Is there any other secret shit you can
                 maneuvering to prevent a war at all costs.  Keeping US
              share with us?  --super spy #1 fan
              \_ One doesn't need all that "secret shit".  It's common
                        \_ Umm, China constitutes > 70% of N Korean imports.
                           Since N. Korea has no natural resources or
                           domestic industry, this means in effect N.
                           Korea survives only through China.  PRC
                           military wants military parity with the US
                           ~ 2025, their generals and military reports
                           are very specific that they view the US as
                           adversary.  Sorry you are wrong (unless of
                           course you know more thant the entire US
                           defense establishment).
                 sense.  The problem with US intelligence services is
                 too much technology and too little common sense.  Kim
                 wants to hold on to power for the long term, and to do
                 that his best model is the PRC.  Unfortunately, US
                 sanctions is preventing him from following in the PRC's
                 footsteps.  He also faces much more serious military
                 pressures and burden as compared to the PRC.  South
                 Korea poses much more of a threat as the better
                 model than Taiwan vis-a-vis the PRC, since
                 Taiwan is so small compared to PRC.  Yes, Kim might
                 strike if he is cornered.  If you let him have a way
                 out, he would take the way out.  I think US wants to
                 take him out whereas S. Korea prefers a more moderate,
                 slower, but less risky way.  Maybe if PRC continues to
                 prosper economically, it can pull N. Korea out of
                 economic disaster even with US sanctions.  Either take
                 Kim out ASAP or help him with economic liberalization
                 are both better than the current impasse.
                 \_ No, it isn't common sense to threaten your neighbors and
                    the US with nuclear weapons if you expect to survive long
                    term.  If staying alive and in power was his goal, he's
                    chosen a suicidal and foolish path that only a mad man
                    would take.  How do you see 10+ years of nuclear weapons
                    and missile development in a starving nation as a means
                    of survival as common sense?
                    \_ If S. Korea, Japan, US feels threatened by N. Korea,
                       how do you think N. Korea feels about the might of
                       the US?  If N. Korea's military is weak, US and
                       S. Korea would likely have taken it out a long time
                       ago, given that USSR is no more and PRC is more and more
                       unwilling to support the liability that is N. Korea.
                       \_ Sigh... if the US wanted to take out NK we could do
                          so right now.  NK can *never* be so strong that we
                          can't take them out.  You have it all backwards.  The
                          *only* reason to take them out is they're getting too
                          strong and building WMD and the means to use them
                          *and* are suicidally threatening to do so.  Otherwise
                          no one would care what a backwater starving nation
                          run by yet another psycho is doing to it's people.
                          \_ not "no one." South Korea would care.  Most
                             south Koreans still have family over there.
                          \_ Sure and USSR could have taken out Afghanistan.
                             Just throw a few nukular bombs and then send
                             in the whole damn Red Army.  3rd grade arguments
                             aside, the question is always, "At what cost?".
                             And no, the reason N. Korea is more and more a
                             concern is not that they are getting too strong
                             but that they are getting too weak and unstable,
                             and of course, the above stated desires of S.
                             Koreans to have a united nation.  As for caring
                             about "backwater starving nations", it's all
                             about projecting power and securing interests,
                             like in Iraq, or Philippines in the last
                 \_ don't forget that the current PRC model all started
                    with Mao being *dead*.  all through the idiocy of the
                    great leap forward and the cultural revolution
                    there were moderate leaders ready to turn China into
                    a real country, and without the maniac dying all this
                    was totaly impossible.  Kim is NK's maniac.
                    \_ Mao is a brutal dictator but not a maniac.  Yes,
                       GLF is sheer stupidity but I think Mao really
                       believed it would work, at least initially.  As for
                       the GPCR, it is Mao's calculated bid to return to power.
                       The PRC model (a more basic version) has been
                       experimented upon off and on since the commie
                       takeover, by the likes of Zhou, Liu and Deng.
                       Mao did not like it too much not because of its
                       merits/problems but because it gives too much
                       power to Liu and others, sidelining Mao.
           \_ [troll purged]
           \_ In Washington the 'common sense' prevailing intelligence is
              that North Korea is China's client state.  They are
              maneuvering to force the US off of the Korean peninsula
              so China can expand its sphere of influence. DUH.
              \_ PRC's main concern is much more than whether US troops is
                 on the Korean peninsula.   It's biggest fear is war on
                 the Korean peninsula.  Politically, helping N. Korea would be
                 disastrous since PRC has good relations with S. Korea, and
                 need trade with Japan and US.  Not helping would be
                 disastrous since its people and military leaders would be
                 questioning why it is giving up what the previous generation
                 gave life and blood for.  Economically, it would be
                 disastrous for the whole region either way.  Militarily, it
                 would have a hard time matching US / S. Korea.  PRC is
                 maneuvering to prevent a war at all costs.  Forcing US
                 off the Korean peninsula is way down on the bottom of the
                 list.  This is all common sense, and very basic.
2003/9/9 [Computer/SW] UID:29525 Activity:nil
9/9     restored from reasonably recent copy.  someone else munged it while
        editing the live file.  please learn to use your editors.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2003:September:09 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>