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2018/07/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2009/2/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:52590 Activity:high
2/16    California is truly f'd for sure this time.  Can we find another pair
        of stupid radio DJs to start a drive to recall Arnold?
        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/us/17cali.html?_r=3&hp
        \_ It will only help if we get a governor with a spine, and get rid of
           the incompetent legislature.
           \_ How do you expect that we will get a decent ledge?  With the 2/3rd
              requirement to pass a budget and ridiculous gerrymandering
           \_ How do you expect that we will get a decent ledge?  With the
              2/3rd requirement to pass a budget and ridiculous gerrymandering
              creating permanent seats for wackos and wingnuts on both sides
              of the debate, we essentially have tyranny of the nutty
              minorities.  I don't see how you fix California without having
              a constitutional convention, and I can't see how that would
              ever happen.
              \_ We can amend the constitution with an initiative. In the past
                 the super-majority to pass a budget issue was put in front
                 of the voters and they voted it down, they might be more
                 receptive after this year.
                 \_ I actually like the super-majority rule.  Why don't they
                    cut more spending?  They talk about the budget as if
                    it's set in stone and there's no way to solve it except
                    raising taxes.
                    \_ What is the rationale for tyranny of the minority for
                       simple rule changes?
                       \_ Example of simple rule change?
              \_ Redistricting is the only thing that will fix the legislature
                 problem IMO.
                 \_ I thought a proposition to redistrict passed in the
                    last election?
                 \_ Redistricting plus removal of the 2/3rds rule plus removal
                    of the set-asides.  California's troubles are a layer cake.
                    \_ Oh hell no.  The 2/3 requirement for RAISING taxes needs
                       to remain.  In fact, it should be 2/3 for raising total
                       expenditures.
                       \_ Ah, I see.  You're actually a wingnut.
                          \_ No, we got into this mess because as fast as
                             revenue went up, we spent even more, vastly
                             outpacing inflation + population growth.
                             \_ Where are you getting your figures?
                                \_ http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/lao_menu_economics.aspx
                                   Spending in 97-98 = 52.8B, 07-08 = 102B
                                   Spending based on pop + infl:
                                   http://www.reason.org/commentaries/summers_20090126.shtml
                                   \_ What is the figure of population +
                                      inflation?  The reason article is playing
                                      games with averages that make it very
                                      difficult to tell how honest he is
                                      being.  This article is more balanced imo:
                                      http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/3020153
                                      \_ GDP is going to grow a bit faster
                                         than population + inflation.
        \_ Why do you think its the governator's fault when the budget has been
           hung up in the legislature all this time?
           \_ The governor has vetoed a compromise, and the Republicans
              refused to override his veto.
           \_ Really, the problem is not so much legislative incompetence
              as legislative inexperience.  The problem is term limits,
              which ensures that no one in the legislature has the experience
              or the relationships to work through a budget impasse like
              this one.   -tom
              \_ The budget has doubled in 10 years, and rose faster under
                 Arnie than under Davis.  The Governor has line-item veto.  He
                 could fix this problem if he wanted to, but instead worked on
                 budgets that papered over problems for years.
                 \_ line-item veto only works when there is something to veto.
                    The budget is still stuck in legislature....
                 \_ Shouldn't budget numbers be looked at as a constant % of
                    GDP rather than absolute dollar value?  Some folks like to
                    bitch that spending has gone up 82% since 1998, but so
                    has GDP.  Looking at things in terms of relative share
                    is important.
                    \_ Do we have to spend every freaking dollar? If GDP
                       went up 82% then what if we increased spending 60%?
                       Would that be wrong?
                       \_ It would be wrong if the state does not have enough
                          money to provide the services it should.  For
                          example, per-student funding to UC has dropped
                          40% since 1990.  So yes, if the state gets more
                          money, it needs to spend it to begin to restore
                          services which have been cut in previous hard
                          budget times.  -tom
                          \_ Our tax burden is still among the highest in the
                             nation (#6 I think).  We should be able to confine
                             ourselves to such a budget without putting
                             the state in danger of insolvency like the
                             Democrats + Arnie are doing by refusing to make
                             any meaningful cuts.
                             \_ We are no where near #6.
                        http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005
                                http://tinyurl.com/9mv2z (Money Magazine)
                                \_ this isn't 2005 (although even taking that
                                   data I think my post still stands to reason)
                                   \_ What, taking the data that California
                                      is actually in the middle of the pack
                                      in terms of state and local tax rates?
                                      And of course, California's average
                                      income is higher, which pushes the
                                      tax burden higher.  And doing things
                                      in California costs more (land and
                                      salary), so we need more state money
                                      per capita to provide the same
                                      services.  Do you have anything other
                                      than ideological ranting?  -tom
                                      \_ It's not middle of the pack.
                                http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr163.pdf
                                         Average income being higher does
                                         not push the tax burden higher,
                                         are you on crack?   Tax burden is
                                         a function of tax rates.
                                         A rich state should actually get
                                         away with less, because govt's
                                         costs do not scale linearly
                                         with income.  A car in CA still
                                         costs the same as a car in OK,
                                         basically.  Land is not a recurring
                                         cost, in general.
                                         Also, for tax burden, it is much
                                         worse for CA when you look at the
                                         burden on those who actually pay
                                         the tax.  CA's income tax is very
                                         progressive and we have a large
                                         population of low-income freeloaders.
                                         \_ Are you really this stupid?  Among
                                            other things, a car in CA pays
                                            20% more for gas.  Property is
                                            absolutely a recurring cost, and
                                            I noticed you completely ignored
                                            the question of salary.  -tom
                                            \_ You are a complete idiot. The
                                               car itself costs the same.
                                               Land itself is not a recurring
                                               cost either.
                                               I said "costs do not scale
                                               linearly" not that there are
                                               no higher costs.  Higher
                                               income trumps those costs.
                                               \_ Let me put it this way;
                                                  how much more do you think
                                                  it costs to do business in
                                                  California, compared to,
                                                  say, Kansas City?  Are you
                                                  really trying to make the
                                                  assertion that California
                                                  business operators spend
                                                  about the same as Kansas
                                                  City business operators?
                                                   -tom
                                         \_ We need to deport IMMIGRANTS
                                      \_ Nope, like I said, he's another
                                         wingnut.  Part of the problem.
                                      \_ We have the highest income, sales, and
                                         gas tax in the nation.
                                         \_ Where do you get your BS from?
                                            Tennessee has 9.25% sales tax.
                                            NY has the highest gasoline tax.
                                            CA has very low property taxes,
                                            as I am sure you know.
                                            \_ Low in terms of % of value,
                                               but not in absolute terms.
                                               We pay about the same property
                                               tax as everywhere else and
                                               a high income tax to boot.
                                               \_ Paying the same dollar
                                                  amount on a mansion in
                                                  Malibu and on a shack in
                                                  Wyoming is not "paying
                                                  about the same property
                                                  tax."  You're a moron.  -tom
                                                  \_ A mansion in Malibu
                                                     pays a lot more tax
                                                     than a shack in Wyoming.
                                                     Stupid argument. Reality
                                                     is that California is
                                                     #26 in local property tax
                                                     collections per capita
                                                     and #20 per household.
                                                     http://tinyurl.com/aopmde
                                                     \_ And top-3 in property
                                                        value.  -tom
                                                        \_ So? That doesn't
                                                           mean we should be
                                                           top-3 in taxes paid.
                                                           I know your dream
                                                           is to be #1 in this
                                                           particular category,
                                                           but some of us think
                                                           paying average taxes
                                                           is just fine and
                                                           that the State
                                                           should be able to
                                                           survive with that
                                                           given that income
                                                           taxes are also high.
                                                           I don't use any
                                                           more services here
                                                           in CA at my $650K
                                                           house than I do at
                                                           my $150K house in
                                                           another state. In
                                                           fact, that house is
                                                           bigger but the tax
                                                           bill is much less.
                                                           Cost of living is
                                                           less there, too, but
                                                           not *that* much less.
                                                           You just love to pay
                                                           taxes. I'm happy at
                                                           #20 for property
                                                           tax. Feel free to
                                                           mail in more on my
                                                           behalf when your
                                                           next bill is due.
                                                           \_ Services cost
                                                              more to provide
                                                              in California,
                                                              due to higher
                                                              land, labor,
                                                              fuel and food
                                                              costs; therefore,
                                                              the state needs
                                                              more money to
                                                              provide the
                                                              same services
                                                              as cheaper
                                                              states.  That's
                                                              why our state
                                                              services are
                                                              massively
                                                              underfunded. -tom
                                                              \_ Do you think
                                                                 services cost
                                                                 8x more,
                                                                 because that's
                                                                 the difference
                                                                 in property
                                                                 tax I pay even
                                                                 though the
                                                                 cost of living
                                                                 is only 40%
                                                                 less and the
                                                                 other house is
                                                                 2x the size. I
                                                                 assure you
                                                                 that the fire
                                                                 and police
                                                                 work just as
                                                                 well and that
                                                                 the schools
                                                                 are better
                                                                 than in most
                                                                 of CA. Our
                                                                 services are
                                                                 not
                                                                 underfunded.
                                                                 We allocate
                                                                 money
                                                                 incorrectly
                                                                 and, sad
                                                                 to say, the
                                                                 illegal
                                                                 immigrants
                                                                 are sucking
                                                                 the State's
                                                                 coffers dry
                                                                 by using
                                                                 services they
                                                                 do not pay for.
                                                                 do not pay
                                                                 for.
                                                                 \_ You have
                                                                    no content.
                                                                    Goodbye.
                                                                     -tom
                                                                    \_ Loser.
                                                                       I give
                                                                       you a
                                                                       real
                                                                       example
                                                                       of
                                                                       property
                                                                       tax
                                                                       disparity
                                                                       dispar-
                                                                       ity
                                                                       and you
                                                                       can't
                                                                       handle
                                                                       the
                                                                       truth.
                             \_ I agree with you that Arnie has been very
                                fiscally irresponsible but at this point the
                                GOP is being reckless. Aren't they just as much
                                to blame for pushing the state towards fiscal
                                insolvency?
                                \_ No, because they aren't the ones who added
                                   the spending.  The Dems and Arnie busted
                                   the budget repeatedly even during the times
                                   of bubble-inflated tax revenues.
                                   \_ They had their share in busting budgets,
                                      if nothing else, they could have shut the
                                      state down during the boom years. Now
                                      they are just appearing as immature
                                      obstructionists.
                       \_ I agree. If conservatives hadn't decided to push for
                          three-strikes and put all those extra people in
                          prison, we wouldn't be in this mess. We warned you
                          at the time that it going to get too expensive.
                          \_ Don't forget the "car tax" cut!
                             \_ Or Prop 87, when California tried to put
                                royalties on oil production (like almost every
                                other state does, when oil or mineral
                                resources are extracted) and was opposed by
                                the GOP, combined with Big Oil.
2018/07/17 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/17    

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www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/us/17cali.html?_r=3&hp
com California, Almost Broke, Nears Brink David McNew/Getty Images California's budget woes have forced the cancellation of thousands of infrastructure projects, like this new bridge in Glendale. California -- its deficits ballooning, its lawmakers intransigent and its governor apparently bereft of allies or influence -- appears headed off the fiscal rails. Enlarge This Image Rich Pedroncelli/Associated Press Darrell Steinberg, left, the State Senate president pro tempore, conferring Monday with his Democratic colleagues. Enlarge This Image Rich Pedroncelli/Associated Press Republican senators reconvened Monday after negotiations over the weekend ended in the rejection of a budget deal. Since the fall, when lawmakers began trying to attack the gaps in the $143 billion budget that their earlier plan had not addressed, the state has fallen into deeper financial straits, with more bad news coming daily from Sacramento. The state, nearly out of cash, has laid off scores of workers and put hundreds more on unpaid furloughs. It has stopped paying counties and issuing income tax refunds and halted thousands of infrastructure projects. Twenty-thousand layoff notices will go out on Tuesday morning, Matt David, the communications director for Gov. "In the absence of a budget we need to realize this savings and the process takes six months," Mr David said. After negotiating nonstop from Saturday afternoon until late Sunday night on a series of budget bills that would have closed a projected $41 billion deficit, state lawmakers failed to get enough votes to close the deal and adjourned. They returned to the Capitol on Monday morning and labored into the evening but still failed to reach a deal. They planned to reconvene at 10 am Tuesday to go at it again. California has also lost access to much of the credit markets, nearly unheard of among state municipal bond issuers. Standard & Poor's downgraded the state's bond rating to the lowest in the nation. California's woes will almost certainly leave a jagged fiscal scar on the nation's most populous state, an outgrowth of the financial triptych of above-average unemployment, high foreclosure rates and plummeting tax revenues, and the state's unusual budgeting practices. "No other state is in the kind of crisis that California is in," said Iris J Lav, the deputy director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal research group in Washington. The roots of California's inability to address its budget woes are statutory and political. The state, unlike most others, requires a two-thirds majority vote in the Legislature to pass budgets and tax increases. And its process for creating voter initiatives hamstrings the budget process by directing money for some programs while depriving others of cash. 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Legislative Analyst's Office Legislative Analyst's Office Search Sitemap Recurring Publications Budget Overview Perspectives and Issues Analysis of the Budget May Revision Overview Budget Major Features Supplemental Language State Spending Plan Fiscal Outlook Recommended Legislation Cal Facts Handouts and Presentations All Recurring By Year Historical Data * State of California Expenditures, 1984-85 to 2009-10 (Updated January 2009) Excel Pivot Table 20mb, or Source Data (.ZIP File) 24mb * State of California Revenues, 1950-01 to 2009-10 (Updated January 2009) Excel Spreadsheet, 490kb * State of California Personnel-Years, 1982-83 to 2006-07 (Updated January, 2008) Excel Format, 11mb, or Compressed .ZIP File, 250kb Useful Budgetary Links * Summary Schedules from the Governor's Budget (Prepared by the Department of Finance)
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www.reason.org/commentaries/summers_20090126.shtml
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www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/3020153
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"I wish it hadn't grown that much," said Mike Genest, Schwarzenegger's state finance director, "but in some sense, it was inevitable. Had we stuck with a very austere budget, we would have been in better shape. "But that would have meant real, permanent reductions in service levels, like schools and health care and prison guard pay, and that would have required herculean effort from the Legislature. Top Democrats cite voter initiatives as big drivers in the state's spending _ like the 1994 "Three Strikes" measure that increased the prison population, or like Proposition 98, the 1988 measure guaranteeing at least 40 percent of the general fund for education. Add to that, they say, some major lawsuits the state lost, including a federal case requiring more spending to upgrade prison health care at about $1 billion a year so far. "If you factor out voter initiatives and court suits, the remaining part of state government grew at or less than inflation and population growth," said John Laird, a Santa Cruz Democrat who served as Assembly budget committee chairman from 2004 to 2008. At $13 billion last year, it now exceeds spending on higher education. Tough laws and voter-approved ballot measures have increased the prison population 82 percent over the past 20 years. Gray Davis gave the powerful prison guard's union a 30 percent raise between 2003 and 2008, increasing payroll costs. But state lawmakers also expanded Medi-Cal eligibility among children and low-income women a decade ago, increasing case loads. It saved the average motorist about $200 a year but would have devastated the cities and counties that had been receiving the money. So Schwarzenegger agreed to repay them every year with state funds. That promise now costs the state $6 billion a year, or $2 billion more than the rate of inflation and population growth since early 2003. That was mostly to cover debt payments on bonds that voters approved for parks and highways, along with moves to limit university tuition increases. Some budget observers say spending more than inflation and population growth is OK, particularly if the economy grows faster. It's what voters wanted, and some programs grow faster than the rate of inflation," said Jean Ross, executive director of the non-profit California Budget Project. "Like Reagan said, giving money to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys," said Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayer's Association. Coupal noted that even though California's revenues have fallen dramatically this year, the state general fund still brings in about $90 billion in annual taxes. That's nearly 20 percent more than it received five years ago _ and only about 12 percent less than the peak last year before the economy tanked. "Most businesses and families could take 10 to 12 percent out of their budget. One of the state's most famous tax-cut crusaders, US Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Granite Bay, said the problem is that California's bureaucracy has grown too large and powerful. Salaries are too high, it's too difficult to fire state workers, and the entire system needs an overhaul, he said, including outsourcing to private firms everything from non-violent inmates to highway engineering. "We've got to put our wardens back in charge of prisons, and principals back in charge of teachers, and introduce competitive pressures back into those systems," McClintock said. But Laird, the Democratic former budget chairman, said it isn't that easy to reduce the size of government. "You can call teachers 'bureaucracy,' but in fact they are teachers," said Laird. Fixing California's broken budget system will require a wide range of reforms, many experts say, from making it tougher to qualify ballot measures to spending caps to reexamining the two-thirds vote requirement to raise taxes. In the meantime, legislative leaders say a budget deal could come as soon as this week. It is nearly certain to include big spending cuts and higher taxes. "Our society is moving in the direction of, 'I want more from government but I don't want to pay for it,' " said Genest. "Right now we have leaders making hard choices out of necessity, and we need to continue that."
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More tax rankings: Income, sales, property NEW YORK (CNN/Money) -- There are countless reasons why you choose to live where you live. The climate, the schools and the job opportunities are just a few. The Tax Foundation, a policy research group, estimated the average taxpayer's total state and local tax burden for 2005 in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia. That burden reflects what residents pay in state and local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, luxury taxes and fuel taxes, among others. States below are ranked from least to most tax friendly. top The state/local tax burden reflects what a state and its local governments collect as a percentage of per capita income. Of course, if you live in the Garden State your personal tax burden may be higher or lower. Much will depend, as it would in any state, on whether you own your home, where in the state you live, how much you make and the source of your income. Business Leader Council Live Quotes automatically refresh, but individual equities are delayed 15 minutes for Nasdaq, and 20 minutes for other exchanges. Market indexes are shown in real time, except for the DJIA, which is delayed by two minutes.
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More tax rankings: Income, sales, property NEW YORK (CNN/Money) -- There are countless reasons why you choose to live where you live. The climate, the schools and the job opportunities are just a few. The Tax Foundation, a policy research group, estimated the average taxpayer's total state and local tax burden for 2005 in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia. That burden reflects what residents pay in state and local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, luxury taxes and fuel taxes, among others. States below are ranked from least to most tax friendly. top The state/local tax burden reflects what a state and its local governments collect as a percentage of per capita income. Of course, if you live in the Garden State your personal tax burden may be higher or lower. Much will depend, as it would in any state, on whether you own your home, where in the state you live, how much you make and the source of your income. Business Leader Council Live Quotes automatically refresh, but individual equities are delayed 15 minutes for Nasdaq, and 20 minutes for other exchanges. Market indexes are shown in real time, except for the DJIA, which is delayed by two minutes.
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August 25, 2008 Local Property Tax Collections Per Capita and Per Household, Fiscal Year 2006 Note: To zoom in, print, select text or search the following document, please use the grey toolbar below. KB * Local Property Tax Collections Per Capita and Per Household, Fiscal Year 2006 , PDF, 50 KB * Printer Friendly * Send to a Friend 2009 Tax Foundation. All Rights Reserved.