7/5 What's the big deal about NK testing firing some missiles? I mean
don't we test fire missiles all the time? We must've test
fired thousands of missiles, heck, we still drop bombs
wherever we feel like, and that's all fine. But another
sovereign nation can't test fire a fucking missiles? Last I
recall NK hasn't dropped bombs on anyone except Korea. We have
dropped Nuclear Bombs, Cluster Bombs, all kinds of fucking
bombs everywhere around the globe, but I guess it's ok because
we are the good guys, and we never attack unless being
attacked, ops, I mean we never, never mind.
\_ You're right, it's about international prestige. NK wants some,
the U.S. doesn't want to give it to them.
\_ It's not just the US; Japan's objecting to NK testing missiles,
too. That's not about prestige, that's self-preservation. If
NK can target Tokyo, Japan believes NK will use this to blackmail
Japan for more economic/agrarian aid. Japan has reason to think so;
cf. NK's abduction of Japanese citizens and subsequent denial of
such.
\_ Plus the fake fishing boats in Japan waters.
\_ Plus the underground tunnels across the 38deg parallel.
\_ The funny thing is, there is little symphathy toward Japan
across Asia. Japanese need to think a bit hard on why being
targeted by N.Korea doesn't yield any symphathy among its
neighbors.
\_ In other news, Japan was dressed like it wanted to be
targetted.
\_ Dude, from the *U.S.* perspective Japan is very important,
our 4th largest trading partner. We don't want to see them
nuked or blackmailed.
\_ China is the 3rd largest trading partner, but US doesn't
mind China being nuked or blackmailed at all. In fact,
US probably going to nuke China when it got a chance.
what does trade has anything to do with all this?
\_ No one (apart from the Uighurs and some militant
Tibetans in exile) wants to nuke China. The US is
pursuing a policy of encouraging the PRC to abandon
its ersatz Communism in favor of capitalism (which
many people think will somehow lead to democratic
reform; I disagree on the basis that the people in
power in the PRC are much more likely to use the
economic miracle to consolidate their own power at the
expense of the serf class they rule). Also, DPRK
cannot blackmail PRC because PRC controls the oil
pipeline that leads into the DPRK; when DPRK last tried
to get snarky with PRC, there was an "accident" that
shut down the pipeline for nearly a week. DPRK backed
down.
\_ economic propsperity will lead to political reform.
The Chinese government today is, believe me or not,
a lot more transparent than 15 years ago. But
don't put your bet on full western-style democracy.
it has been tried and didn't work. Another history
lesson of the day, China is the first country in
East Asia that established a Democratic Republic
with 5 branch of government.
\_ Despite Sun Yat-sen's idealistic intentions,
the Republic of China was never a Western-style
democracy; it was an oligarchy, and it quickly
devolved into a military dictatorship. It was
disaffection with the KMT's stranglehold on the
ersatz democracy that fueled Mao & Co.'s rise to
power. After the founding of the PRC, democracy
became something less than lip service; cf.
Gang of Four.
\_ They just fired a 7th (!!). I wonder how many NK comrades literally
starve for every compensatory phallic NK missle launch.
\_ You do know these missiles are called "Nodong," right?
\_ Yeah!!! We should all quick picking on poor little NK. After all
it was Western agression that provoked them into starting the
Korean War! Get you fcking head out of the sand. NK perfects
missile technology, it'll be nuclear yellow mornings for you
libs in the West coasts all the time. And please don't give tell me
you don't know about the thousands of conventional arty pieces
pointed at Seoul, ready to level it at the first sign of attack.
\_ As the only nation on this planet in the history of
mankind that have used a nuclear weapon against millions
of civilian lives, and wants to develop "bunker busting
nukes" against an enemy so weak they can't even fight us
face to face, we really have no right to tell anyone
what to do about nuclear weapons. Just remember, what
goes around, comes around. 75% of the world agrees that
the US is the biggest threat to world peace. It is time
you get your head out of the sand and ask "why".
\_ Why if 75% say so then it must be true! I can see how the
sun never sets on the U.S. flag! I can see English being
forced on the locals. Yes, sirree! We are threat to world
peace with all the food we give away, all the money we
give away to those who play ball with us, my gawd, all that
"shame" from Hiroshima (100k dead vs. 2mil USGI possibly
dying) has lead us to the warpath! You know we wanted
to rewrite the Vietnamese lang. just like the French did.
You know we wanted to go all the way to Beijing. By golly
you have us pegged as conquering squatters we are.
\_ The US did go all the way to Beijing in 1900.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-Nation_Alliance
\_ Nice. Maybe they think we're a threat because of what we
actually HAVE done, largely supporting and funding
destabilizing influences the world over.
\_ you mean how we've been the most generous and pacifist
power the world has ever seen?
\_ US is neither most generous (in the percentage of
is GDP) nor pacifist. We've been overthrown
democratic governments, founding garallias,
and invade soverign nation against UN charter.
Exactly what make you think US is a pacifist?
\_ Generous: we give more. We also give a lot more
\_ nope. per pecentage of GDP, US doesn't give
more.
in private donations. Pacifist: name any country
\_ private donation doesnt count as Nation's
donation. good try to spin the way through
in the past with any amount of power that didn't
try to form an empire. I can only name one that
has more power than the rest of the world
combined and barely uses it. This is a very
pacifist and passive country.
\_ Do you want to talk about Iran in 1953?
Guatamola? Chili? and latest Iraq? If you
want to talk about neighbors, you want to
talk about our invasion against Canada?
our advanture with Mexico? I haven't start
talking about all these Indian nations because
inferior race doesn't count as humans.
\_ And Kenneth Lay was a great philanthropist.
\_ Snarky. Ignorant.
\_ He was! How's that ignorant?
\_ More generous and pacifistic than Sweden? Canada?
The Netherlands? I think not.
\_ I was unaware Sweden, Canada, and the Netherlands
were super powers. I apologise to you and the
rest of the motd for not recognising these three
great nations for the super powers they are.
\_ The phrase was "power" not "super power." But
yeah, if you want to claim that the United
States is the most generous and pacifistic
superpower in the world, that would be hard
to argue with, since we are also the only
superpower in the world. We are also,
incidently, the greediest and most warmongering
superpower in the world. But in either case,
you aren't saying a whole lot.
\_ Split any hairs lately? Use Power or Super
Power. No nation with power over their
neighbors has ever been as generous or as
pacifistic as the US. How's that? No
nation has ever had the power the US has
now and pray they don't ever because it's
only down hill from here.
\_ Okay, I agree with you on this.
\_ you are sooooooooooo ignorant of history.
google the term "pax sinica."
\_ Hello, the Middle Kingdom invented
gunboat diplomacy before there were
gunboats. Also, if the MK had an
economic dispute (i.e., if you didn't
pay your tribute), they'd invade and
destroy. This would seem to invalidate
the pacifist requirement.
\_ you have no idea what you are
talking about. tribute is more
similar to trade agreement than
what you think it is. But since
you are clueless beyond help, I
am not going to elaborate further.
\_ LOLicious! You have nothing to
back up your revisionist view
of the Middle Kingdom as last
benign military force, so you
accuse me of not knowing what
I'm talking about. -10 points
for House ChiCom Troll!
\_ Hey, don't forget the kindness of
the Islamic empire. As long as
you agreed with them on
everything, they wouldn't murder
everyone and rape all the women!
What elightenment!
\_ hmm... let see... why all the
fucking Jews seeking refuge in
those Islamic empire if they are
being murdered and raped?
\_ 1) Because they had _less_
chance of being raped in Islamic
world than in Xian world; google
Pogroms. 2) Because pp has
overstated the case even more
than revisionist ChiCom Troll.
\_ Yeah, each of those countries can airlift
people after tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes
easily. Why they protect thousands of miles
of land that's not even theirs!
\_ Overseas Development Aid as a percentage of GDP
Denmark 0.96%
Norway .89
Sweden .83
Netherlands .81
Luxembourg .77
Belgium .43
Ireland .40
France .38
Japan .23
United States .13
\_ Are you including private donations? No.
I think you'll be surprised at just how
generous Americans really are if you
bothered to check that instead of just
looking at government funded programs, but
Americans are all greedy and selfish and
insular and stupid so don't worry about it.
\_ Give me the facts then, instead of just
spouting your opinion. Including private
donations, who is the most generous?
Cite your source, please.
\_ Fighting the war on terror is equivalent
to development aid, because terror impedes
development. The defense cost and the Bush
War in Iraq are greater than any dev aid
we've ever seen, and therefore the US is
the most generous nation on the planet.
God Bless! -Bush Cheney Lay Skilling #1!
\_ what about china?
\_ China is not exactly in the position
to help anyone. If China can leveage
millions of people out of poverty, it
will be considered an act of huge
favor toward humanintarian cause.
\_ Seeing how many super powers on this list: 1
\_ screw this percentage of GDP crap, and show
us the real absolute numbers. Do you think
the needy will be more grateful for $100
from a rich man than $1 from a pauper?
\_ No, but Jesus taught that the latter
is a bigger gift.
\_ Who?
\_ Jesus Holy-shit Christ.
\_ What?! I learned on the motd
that His middle name was
"tapdancing". Is this a
different guy?
\_ Oh come on, he was doing a good job
lying with statistics. Don't try to
bring hard numbers into it.
\_ How is percentage lying? I believe
the claim was "most generous"
Generosity is a measure of sacrifice,
not absolute dollar value.
\_ The US did go all the way to Beijing in 1900.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-Nation_Alliance
\_ US is the leading superpower. If it wasn't US, it would be
Spain, France, Holland, Germany, UK, China, Japan, or someone
else. Don't think that w/o the US the power vacuum would be
filled with some peaceloving nation. As world powers decline,
others rise to take their place. Only the names change.
\_ Those people should be asked their definition of "World
Peace." I don't see how we have World Peace now, so how
can anyone threaten it? Is Dafur (and other such places)
not the automatic biggest threat to world peace, since
they keep it from existing in the first place?
\_ Darfur doesn't count to these people. They're brown,
they're foreign, they have a different religion/culture/
language/everything and worst of all, they're poor so if
they're getting slaughtered hey let's just have another
UN meeting in a few months to discuss the exact definition
of genocide. Once the UN's Human Rights Commission's
sub-committee on the definition of genocide gets back to
us next year we can then decide if that definition fits
Darfur but only after the government there releases figures
telling us how many they're killing per day and why each
one was killed.
\_ We didn't kill *millions* with nuclear weapons, more like
300,000. Not to justify it or anything, just pointing out
that you're off by a factor of ten.
\_ Agreed. About the same number of civilians the Japanese
killed in the Rape of Nanjing alone.
\_ Agreed. About the same as the number of civilians the
Japanese killed in the Rape of Nanjing alone.
\_ I know where you're coming from, but believe me, Kim Jong Il is not
the guy you want to defend on this sovereignty issue. |
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