Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:July:05 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2006/7/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43561 Activity:moderate
7/5     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1659910/posts
        Recall two U.S. soldiers were kidnapped a couple weeks ago and killed.
        Reports are now that they were mutilated beyond recognition and
        beheaded.  Recall that another U.S. soldier was charged with rape and
        quadruple murder last week.  It turns out that all three soldiers were
        in the same platoon.
        \_ jblack, is that you? Do you still call them "Freedom Fries"?
           \_ Just watch the coverage disparity.
              \_ This is non-responsive. Just answer the question please.
                 \_ there wasn't a question.  why do you hate so much? -!jblack
                    \_ "Do you still call them Freedom Fries", is not a
                       question? What do you call it then?
                       \_ blunt hostility serving no useful purpose.  have you
                          stopped beating your wife?  -!jblack
                          \_ Hey, you are the idiots who alienated our allies
                             with the whole "Freedom Fries" thing. Along with
                             triumphant aircraft carrier landings, "Cheese
                             Eating Surrender Monkeys", "Old Europe", "Bring
                             'Em On!" and all the rest of the loudmouthed,
                             trash talking. Now that things have not gone your
                             way, you want to pretend like it all never
                             happened. Sorry, three years ago is not ancient
                             history and we need to be reminded of your
                             arrogant foolishness, so as to learn from your
                             mistakes and not repeat them.
        \_ "you are either with us, or against us."  remember that line?
           and then, we invaded Iraq.  Those who are resisting our occupation
           are by definition terrorist and should not be pardoned.
           Is this all thing warped?  or it's just me?
           \_ "You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists" was
              how I remember it. Which is worse, I don't know...
        \_ how big is a platoon?
           \_ commanded by a lieutenant, a combat platoon typically has 30-40
        \_ Compare the US non-reaction of this with the Israeli reaction of a
           kidnapping of *one* soldier in Gaza.  No wonder our troops might as
           well have target circles painted on their uniforms.
           \_ think of why there is no reaction from our part?  may be
              these US Soldiers deserve to be killed?
2006/7/5-6 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:43562 Activity:nil
7/5     How can I remove my info from soda's web finger gateway thing?
        \_ touch ~/.nofinger
2006/7/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:43563 Activity:kinda low
7/5     http://tinyurl.com/qv9v8  (yahoo)
        so, when are we going to invade North Korea?  Afterall, we did
        invade Iraq and ready to bomb Iran.
        \_ obNoOil
        \_ One could say "obNoOil" but that'd be intellectually dishonest.
           More likely is that the President's and his staff understand that
           each country should be treated according to circumstances, one might
           say he's taking a nuanced approach to world affairs, rather than
           the one size fits all approach you're suggesting.  And btw, no one
           said we're ready to bomb Iran.  *IF* there is anything to bomb it
           is spread all over the place.  This isn't the Iraqi reactor the
           Israelis blew up.  Nuance.  Fun, huh?
           \_ Read "Cobra II." We invaded Iraq because we thought it would be
              easy and set an example.  Invading North Korea is Hard (tm), or
              was at least perceived to be in 2002.  It is thought that NK
              could do a huge amount of damage to Seoul via artillery and other
              means before we could successfully invade.  Iraq was invaded
              because it was the most "vulnerable" of the "Axis of Evil." --!op
              \_ I don't dispute any of that.  I agree with you that it is
                 more complex than the mindless "no blood for big oil" crowd
                 would have us believe.  Quite the contrary, I think 10k+
                 artillery pieces could make a good mush of Seoul, etc and
                 Iraq was an easier target, etc.
            \_ there is an earlier thread about we are being a pacifist...
            \_ My obNoOil was a joke. Obviously the real reason is only that
               NK essentially is holding hostages (SK). Plus there's China
               to deal with. Nuanced approach? Rubbish.
                  \- In return for giving up nukes, I recommend borrowing
                     from the historical playbook by offering North Kolea
                     CHENEY as a deterrance hostage. link:csua.org/u/gbx
                     \_ The PSB is wise; heed the PSB.
2006/7/5-6 [Health] UID:43564 Activity:nil
7/5     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vXaNRydT5Y
        I have been searching for this for ages to show my wife who
        never saw it. It's the infamous "I learned it by watching YOU!"
        anti-drug ad from 1987. -bz
        \_ And why is this yet another ineffective Reaganstic campaigns
           worth watching?
        \_ Why?
2006/7/5 [Recreation/Dating] UID:43565 Activity:nil 80%like:43540
6/30    ax where are you
        http://youtube.com/watch?v=agly43DevXU
        http://myboobsite.com/blog
        http://tinyurl.com/of22u
        \_ ...was there a point to this?
           \_ If you have to ask, you don't know...
                \_ I'm still here, and it's good to see the motd is
                   as kind to me as ever.  Thanks!!  -ax
2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43566 Activity:nil
7/5     Ken Lay dead, reportedly of a heart attack.
        \_ Apparently, I'm not the only one who's suspecting this to be a
           big cover up for him to escape his sentence:
           http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/52773
           \_ Has the price of tin gone up recently?
        \_ piss me off.  I want this guy go to jail.  And i am really mad
           about how news articles kept saying he is a spiritual person...
           I just love this logic.  "he goes church, therefore, eventhough
           he have stolen millions from the poor, he still deserve a place in
           heavan."
           \_ He's dead of a massive coronary.  He's dead.  He didn't escape
              to South America with his ill gotten gains.  He's dead.  Dead.
              He's dead, Jim, dead, dead, dead.
           \_ Yeah, but that's pretty much what the Bible says.  Good deeds are
              totally irrelevant.  Faith trumps all.
2006/7/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:43567 Activity:kinda low
7/5     Coulter plaigiarizes, nobody cares
        http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001051.php
        \_ http://www.nypost.com/photos/news07022006004a.jpg
           Oh holy crap.  I take it back when I said she was
           "passably attractive"  Eww.  (Sorry, I'm a face man)
           \_ Which has what to do with anything?
        \_ I read the things she 'plaigiarized'.  No one cares because that
           doesn't fit the definition.  But don't let facts get in your way.
        \_ Coulter [anything], nobody cares.  -John
           \_ Her book sales dispute that.
              \_ OK I'll rephrase, nobody who matters cares.  -John
                 \_ Re-rephrased, "only people who think like me matter", but
                    I don't think you meant to say that.
                    \_ Straw man exposed and knocked down.  Nobody with any
                       significant mental capacity for differentiated
                       and analytical political thought buys the kind of
                       claptrap she writes.  Her political persuasion aside,
                       it's low quality pseudo-intellectual self-affirmation
                       for the "America, FUCK YEAH" NASCAR crowd.  And maybe
                       you're right, I should have worded my point differently.
                       The mob of the lowest common denominator does matter.
                       I'll use "fucking morons" instead.  -John
2006/7/5-6 [Uncategorized] UID:43568 Activity:nil
7/5     What's the best (lightest+brightest) LED light and rear light
        for a road bike?
2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:43569 Activity:moderate
7/5     What's the big deal about NK testing firing some missiles?  I mean
        don't we test fire missiles all the time? We must've test
        fired thousands of missiles, heck, we still drop bombs
        wherever we feel like, and that's all fine. But another
        sovereign nation can't test fire a fucking missiles? Last I
        recall NK hasn't dropped bombs on anyone except Korea. We have
        dropped Nuclear Bombs, Cluster Bombs, all kinds of fucking
        bombs everywhere around the globe, but I guess it's ok because
        we are the good guys, and we never attack unless being
        attacked, ops, I mean we never, never mind.
        \_ You're right, it's about international prestige.  NK wants some,
           the U.S. doesn't want to give it to them.
        \_ It's not just the US; Japan's objecting to NK testing missiles,
           too. That's not about prestige, that's self-preservation. If
           NK can target Tokyo, Japan believes NK will use this to blackmail
           Japan for more economic/agrarian aid. Japan has reason to think so;
           cf. NK's abduction of Japanese citizens and subsequent denial of
           such.
           \_ Plus the fake fishing boats in Japan waters.
           \_ Plus the underground tunnels across the 38deg parallel.
           \_ The funny thing is, there is little symphathy toward Japan
              across Asia.  Japanese need to think a bit hard on why being
              targeted by N.Korea doesn't yield any symphathy among its
              neighbors.
              \_ In other news, Japan was dressed like it wanted to be
                 targetted.
              \_ Dude, from the *U.S.* perspective Japan is very important,
                 our 4th largest trading partner.  We don't want to see them
                 nuked or blackmailed.
                 \_ China is the 3rd largest trading partner, but US doesn't
                    mind China being nuked or blackmailed at all.  In fact,
                    US probably going to nuke China when it got a chance.
                    what does trade has anything to do with all this?
                    \_ No one (apart from the Uighurs and some militant
                       Tibetans in exile) wants to nuke China. The US is
                       pursuing a policy of encouraging the PRC to abandon
                       its ersatz Communism in favor of capitalism (which
                       many people think will somehow lead to democratic
                       reform; I disagree on the basis that the people in
                       power in the PRC are much more likely to use the
                       economic miracle to consolidate their own power at the
                       expense of the serf class they rule). Also, DPRK
                       cannot blackmail PRC because PRC controls the oil
                       pipeline that leads into the DPRK; when DPRK last tried
                       to get snarky with PRC, there was an "accident" that
                       shut down the pipeline for nearly a week. DPRK backed
                       down.
                       \_ economic propsperity will lead to political reform.
                          The Chinese government today is, believe me or not,
                          a lot more transparent than 15 years ago.  But
                          don't put your bet on full western-style democracy.
                          it has been tried and didn't work.  Another history
                          lesson of the day, China is the first country in
                          East Asia that established a Democratic Republic
                          with 5 branch of government.
                          \_ Despite Sun Yat-sen's idealistic intentions,
                             the Republic of China was never a Western-style
                             democracy; it was an oligarchy, and it quickly
                             devolved into a military dictatorship. It was
                             disaffection with the KMT's stranglehold on the
                             ersatz democracy that fueled Mao & Co.'s rise to
                             power. After the founding of the PRC, democracy
                             became something less than lip service; cf.
                             Gang of Four.
        \_ They just fired a 7th (!!).  I wonder how many NK comrades literally
           starve for every compensatory phallic NK missle launch.
           \_ You do know these missiles are called "Nodong," right?
        \_ Yeah!!! We should all quick picking on poor little NK. After all
           it was Western agression that provoked them into starting the
           Korean War! Get you fcking head out of the sand. NK perfects
           missile technology, it'll be nuclear yellow mornings for you
           libs in the West coasts all the time. And please don't give tell me
           you don't know about the thousands of conventional arty pieces
           pointed at Seoul, ready to level it at the first sign of attack.
           \_ As the only nation on this planet in the history of
              mankind that have used a nuclear weapon against millions
              of civilian lives, and wants to develop "bunker busting
              nukes" against an enemy so weak they can't even fight us
              face to face, we really have no right to tell anyone
              what to do about nuclear weapons. Just remember, what
              goes around, comes around. 75% of the world agrees that
              the US is the biggest threat to world peace. It is time
              you get your head out of the sand and ask "why".
              \_ Why if 75% say so then it must be true! I can see how the
                 sun never sets on the U.S. flag! I can see English being
                 forced on the locals. Yes, sirree! We are threat to world
                 peace with all the food we give away, all the money we
                 give away to those who play ball with us, my gawd, all that
                 "shame" from Hiroshima (100k dead vs. 2mil USGI possibly
                 dying) has lead us to the warpath! You know we wanted
                 to rewrite the Vietnamese lang. just like the French did.
                 You know we wanted to go all the way to Beijing. By golly
                 you have us pegged as conquering squatters we are.
                 \_ The US did go all the way to Beijing in 1900.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-Nation_Alliance
                 \_ Nice.  Maybe they think we're a threat because of what we
                    actually HAVE done, largely supporting and funding
                    destabilizing influences the world over.
                    \_ you mean how we've been the most generous and pacifist
                       power the world has ever seen?
                       \_ US is neither most generous (in the percentage of
                          is GDP) nor pacifist.  We've been overthrown
                          democratic governments, founding garallias,
                          and invade soverign nation against UN charter.
                          Exactly what make you think US is a pacifist?
                          \_ Generous: we give more.  We also give a lot more
                             \_ nope.  per pecentage of GDP, US doesn't give
                                more.
                             in private donations.  Pacifist: name any country
                                \_ private donation doesnt count as Nation's
                                   donation.  good try to spin the way through
                             in the past with any amount of power that didn't
                             try to form an empire.  I can only name one that
                             has more power than the rest of the world
                             combined and barely uses it.  This is a very
                             pacifist and passive country.
                             \_ Do you want to talk about Iran in 1953?
                                Guatamola?  Chili?  and latest Iraq? If you
                                want to talk about neighbors, you want to
                                talk about our invasion against Canada?
                                our advanture with Mexico?  I haven't start
                                talking about all these Indian nations because
                                inferior race doesn't count as humans.
                       \_ And Kenneth Lay was a great philanthropist.
                          \_ Snarky.  Ignorant.
                             \_ He was!  How's that ignorant?
                       \_ More generous and pacifistic than Sweden? Canada?
                          The Netherlands? I think not.
                          \_ I was unaware Sweden, Canada, and the Netherlands
                             were super powers.  I apologise to you and the
                             rest of the motd for not recognising these three
                             great nations for the super powers they are.
                             \_ The phrase was "power" not "super power." But
                                yeah, if you want to claim that the United
                                States is the most generous and pacifistic
                                superpower in the world, that would be hard
                                to argue with, since we are also the only
                                superpower in the world. We are also,
                                incidently, the greediest and most warmongering
                                superpower in the world. But in either case,
                                you aren't saying a whole lot.
                                \_ Split any hairs lately?  Use Power or Super
                                   Power.  No nation with power over their
                                   neighbors has ever been as generous or as
                                   pacifistic as the US.  How's that?  No
                                   nation has ever had the power the US has
                                   now and pray they don't ever because it's
                                   only down hill from here.
                                   \_ Okay, I agree with you on this.
                                   \_ you are sooooooooooo ignorant of history.
                                      google the term "pax sinica."
                                      \_ Hello, the Middle Kingdom invented
                                         gunboat diplomacy before there were
                                         gunboats. Also, if the MK had an
                                         economic dispute (i.e., if you didn't
                                         pay your tribute), they'd invade and
                                         destroy. This would seem to invalidate
                                         the pacifist requirement.
                                         \_ you have no idea what you are
                                            talking about.  tribute is more
                                            similar to trade agreement than
                                            what you think it is.  But since
                                            you are clueless beyond help, I
                                            am not going to elaborate further.
                                            \_ LOLicious! You have nothing to
                                               back up your revisionist view
                                               of the Middle Kingdom as last
                                               benign military force, so you
                                               accuse me of not knowing what
                                               I'm talking about. -10 points
                                               for House ChiCom Troll!
                                      \_ Hey, don't forget the kindness of
                                         the Islamic empire.  As long as
                                         you agreed with them on
                                         everything, they wouldn't murder
                                         everyone and rape all the women!
                                         What elightenment!
                                         \_ hmm... let see... why all the
                                            fucking Jews seeking refuge in
                                            those Islamic empire if they are
                                            being murdered and raped?
                                            \_ 1) Because they had _less_
                                               chance of being raped in Islamic
                                               world than in Xian world; google
                                               Pogroms. 2) Because pp has
                                               overstated the case even more
                                               than revisionist ChiCom Troll.
                          \_ Yeah, each of those countries can airlift
                             people after tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes
                             easily. Why they protect thousands of miles
                             of land that's not even theirs!
                             \_ Overseas Development Aid as a percentage of GDP
                                Denmark 0.96%
                                Norway .89
                                Sweden .83
                                Netherlands .81
                                Luxembourg .77
                                Belgium .43
                                Ireland .40
                                France .38
                                Japan .23
                                United States .13
                                \_ Are you including private donations?  No.
                                   I think you'll be surprised at just how
                                   generous Americans really are if you
                                   bothered to check that instead of just
                                   looking at government funded programs, but
                                   Americans are all greedy and selfish and
                                   insular and stupid so don't worry about it.
                                   \_ Give me the facts then, instead of just
                                      spouting your opinion. Including private
                                      donations, who is the most generous?
                                      Cite your source, please.
                                \_ Fighting the war on terror is equivalent
                                   to development aid, because terror impedes
                                   development. The defense cost and the Bush
                                   War in Iraq are greater than any dev aid
                                   we've ever seen, and therefore the US is
                                   the most generous nation on the planet.
                                   God Bless!   -Bush Cheney Lay Skilling #1!
                                \_ what about china?
                                   \_ China is not exactly in the position
                                      to help anyone.  If China can leveage
                                      millions of people out of poverty, it
                                      will be considered an act of huge
                                      favor toward humanintarian cause.
                                \_ Seeing how many super powers on this list: 1
                                \_ screw this percentage of GDP crap, and show
                                   us the real absolute numbers.  Do you think
                                   the needy  will be more grateful for $100
                                   from a rich man than $1 from a pauper?
                                   \_ No, but Jesus taught that the latter
                                      is a bigger gift.
                                      \_ Who?
                                         \_ Jesus Holy-shit Christ.
                                            \_ What?!  I learned on the motd
                                               that His middle name was
                                               "tapdancing".  Is this a
                                               different guy?
                                   \_ Oh come on, he was doing a good job
                                      lying with statistics.  Don't try to
                                      bring hard numbers into it.

                                      \_ How is percentage lying?  I believe
                                         the claim was "most generous"
                                         Generosity is a measure of sacrifice,
                                         not absolute dollar value.
                 \_ The US did go all the way to Beijing in 1900.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-Nation_Alliance
              \_ US is the leading superpower. If it wasn't US, it would be
                 Spain, France, Holland, Germany, UK, China, Japan, or someone
                 else. Don't think that w/o the US the power vacuum would be
                 filled with some peaceloving nation. As world powers decline,
                 others rise to take their place. Only the names change.
              \_ Those people should be asked their definition of "World
                 Peace."  I don't see how we have World Peace now, so how
                 can anyone threaten it?  Is Dafur (and other such places)
                 not the automatic biggest threat to world peace, since
                 they keep it from existing in the first place?
                 \_ Darfur doesn't count to these people.  They're brown,
                    they're foreign, they have a different religion/culture/
                    language/everything and worst of all, they're poor so if
                    they're getting slaughtered hey let's just have another
                    UN meeting in a few months to discuss the exact definition
                    of genocide.  Once the UN's Human Rights Commission's
                    sub-committee on the definition of genocide gets back to
                    us next year we can then decide if that definition fits
                    Darfur but only after the government there releases figures
                    telling us how many they're killing per day and why each
                    one was killed.
              \_ We didn't kill *millions* with nuclear weapons, more like
                 300,000.  Not to justify it or anything, just pointing out
                 that you're off by a factor of ten.
                 \_ Agreed.  About the same number of civilians the Japanese
                    killed in the Rape of Nanjing alone.
                 \_ Agreed.  About the same as the number of civilians the
                    Japanese killed in the Rape of Nanjing alone.
        \_ I know where you're coming from, but believe me, Kim Jong Il is not
           the guy you want to defend on this sovereignty issue.
2006/7/5-7 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:43570 Activity:nil
7/5     How do I display my disk quota for home dir and /var/mail?
        /usr/bin/quota doesn't show those.  Thx.
2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:43571 Activity:nil
7/5     Soooo, Israel invaded the Gaza strip days ago and not a word on
        the motd.  It feels like the pink elephant in the room.  No one
        cares?  Shall we ignore this like we do the Darfur attrocities that
        continue to this day?
        \_ What do you want them to do?  Negotiate for the hostage?
           \_ if anything, first act of war was unleashed by Israel, impose
              unjustified economic sanctions upon a DEMOCRATICALLY elected
              government.
           \_ they demand release of those under 18 of age and women.  I
              don't know about you, but the demand sounds relatively reasonable
              to me.
              \_ so releasing a set of people known to carry suicide bombs
                 back into the general population sounds reasonable to you?
                 \_ how do you know ALL the people in Israelli custody are
                    guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
        \_ Hamas attacks Israel, and you think Israel is the problem?
           http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1209965,00.html
           \_ And you're ok with Israel cutting off the democratically elected
              government before they barely had a chance to get into office?
              \_ Hamas are terrorists and thugs, Hitler was democratically
                 elected, and I invoke Godwin's law and declare this
                 discussion over before it barely had a chance to
                 get started.  -John
                 \_ and PLA was not a terrorist?  how about PKK?  we are
                    actually giving money away to PKK, you know that, right?
                    \_ The PLA were as well.  As are the PKK.  And if we're
                       giving them money, that's not right.  Period.  -John
                       \_ but we do give money to PKK.
                 \_ Wait, are you trumping a Middle East discussion with a
                    Nazi abortion? Call Jerry Springer! --erikred
                 \_ I think this is an example of Quirk's Exception. -ausman
                    \_ Have you ever seen the MSU and IAC yelling at each
                       other (when I was at Cal, they were both at Sather
                       Gate.)  No, I wouldn't make an exception.  -John
        \_ See kids?  Don't drink and discuss Arab-Israeli politics.
        \_ Hamas uses suicide bombers against civilians.  Having an official
           policy of killing civilians for maximum civilian casualties speaks
           for itself.
           \_ Indeed.  Israel's had fucking tanks in Gaza for a few days now
              and there's a huge funeral because they've killed ONE guy who
              was about to fire a rocket at them.
              \_ I'm not trying to argue, and I have absolutely no respect
                 for Hamas, but Israel also killed a few people hanging
                 out on the beach a few weeks ago.  I think both sides
                 have done things to piss off and alienate the other side.
                 \_ how about bombing president's office?  bombing power plant
                    that knock 700,000 people out of power?  The truth is,
                    Israel want to destroy infrastructure of a proper nation
                    so Palestinian can never form an effective state.  This
                    whole thing is not about one soldier being kidnapped.
                    \_ You think they're capable of having an effective state?
                       Hamas and Fatah were already in a civil war which had
                       no Israeli involvement.
                       \_ you don't call illegal economic blocade an
                          "involvement?"
                 \_ Israelis did not blow up anyone a beach a few weeks ago.
                    Please stop repeating Hamas propoganda.
                 \_ yeah, but you just don't fight back against oppression by
                    blowing people up in crowded restaurants.
                    \_ Palestinians don't have a choice.  if they fight like
                       an regular army, they will be crushed.  FURTHER,
                       just remember, Israel was FOUNDED by terrorist bombing.
                       Remember those Zionist bombing against British?  of
                       course not.
                       \_ The British were foreign occupiers.  Bombing foreign
                          occupiers is ok.  Isn't it?
                          \_ Israel at the time wasn't a nation.  It was called
                             "British mandated PALESTINE."
                    \_ Yeah, agreed.  The problem, though, is that the
                       Palestinians think Israel does things like that on
                       purpose and then claims it was an accident.
                       \_ dude, I am not an Arab and I don't believe Israel
                          neither.  Israelli has a track record of shelling
                          UN refugee camp, destory target regardless civilian
                          casualties, and obey UN charter and international law
                          only for their benefit.
                          \_ A track record?  Please tell us when they shelled
                             a refugee camp?  Tell us what they should do when
                                \_ April 18, 1999.  Do i have to do all the
                                   google for you
                             the target hides among a willing population that
                             shields people lobbing rockets over the border?
                             \_ border? what border? Is there a border between
                                "Israel" and "State of Palestine?"
                             Tell us what would happen to Israel if they
                             pulled back to their pre-67 borders.  Or maybe
                             you'd prefer the pre-47 borders?
                       \_ I think they say that, but they don't really believe
                          it.
                          \_ Does it matter if they believe it?  They use
                            it as a justification for their actions.  Say
                            anything often enough and you, and a lot of
                            other people, will believe it.
                            \_ Who is concerned with Hamas' justifications
                               for anything?
                               \_ I don't think any of us are, I say f***
                                  Hamas.  But they have propaganda power
                                  over other Palestinians.
                               \_ I just say we should of give Hamas a
                                  chance before economic sanction was imposed.
                                  A political entity tend to say one thing
                                  to get the power, and the behavior changes
                                  as ruling and responsibility lays upon their
                                  shoulder.  Unfortunately, US policy was
                                  to destroy any chance 2-state solution, and
                                  destroy the democratically elected
                                  government.
                                  This make sense in the same way that we
                                  invaded Iraq.
                                  \_ Don't know much about Hamas, huh?
                                     \_ consider all your news are from
                                        US and Israeli sources, I would say
                                        i know more about Hamas than you do.
                                        \_ Except your assumption is
                                           wrong.
                                  \_ I'm not sure anything in Palestine
                                     counts as "democratically elected."
                                     It's more like feudalism with elections.
                                     \_ good try.  UN Observer and Jimmy
                                        Carter was there.  The election was
                                        fair.   You need to understand that
                                        democracy is all about organization
                                        and mobilization of people to vote.
                                        Hamas, Islamtic Brotherhood in Egypt
                                        are much better organized than the
                                        secular counter part.  So, if we
                                        decided that democracy is the best way
                                        to go (which i personally does not),
                                        then, you need to bite the bullet and
                                        accept the result.
                 \_ That's in pretty big dispute.  The shrapnel type was
                    different than that fired, the time was different, and
                    Palestinians tried to hide the evidence.  It is not
                    clear that Israel was responsible for that explosion.
                    \_ Seems quite clear they weren't responsible.  Sounds
                       more like a "work accident".
                 \_ Just curious, if terrorist hide among innocent
                    civilians and fire rockets, who's responisible for the
                    civilian casualties resulting from the response?  I
                    would say those who endangered the civilians in the
                    first place.
                    \_ Let's avoid the word "terrorist."  Terrorism is
                       a technique to wage warfare, nothing more.  These guys
                       in Gaza / West Bank are resistant fighters.  The way
                       they fight make avoiding civilian casulty difficult.
                       However, you need to remember, the reason why we hate
                       them is because they doesn't seems to mind killing
                       "innocent" civilians.  However, if anything, Israeli's
                       track record is as bad as those of Hamas and PLA in
                       terms of killing civilians, etc.  Just that we tend
                       to know every bombing in Israel, but we normally don't
                       see those civilians being killed by Israeli army, by
                       missile, by proxmity shell, by refuse them go to
                       hospital on the other side of check point.
        \_ Visit a Sbarro's and tell yourself there was one just like it
           that was blown up just because. I can't believe there are people
           who think that good will win!
2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43572 Activity:nil
7/5     Wham! And they're into the finals! (Not saying who, though!)
        http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~erikred/wallchart.pdf
        Finals on Sunday, Third Place match on Friday, and thank you all for
        indulging this crusty old alum. --erikred
        \_ Italy did not look so great against the USA. I am surprised
           they made the Finals.
           \_ True but they scored two goals against the US, who scored zero.
              \_ Huh? The US-Italy score was 1-1.
                 \_ yea, look at who kicked the ball into the goal. (e.g.)
                    http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/match/template.html?id=25&day=17&month=06&year=2006
              \_ US was playing with 9 men and almost scored a goal but
                 for interference. I thought US played better overall,
                 creating more chances despite having one fewer man.
                 \_ I agree ("True") but was just pointing out the own goal.
                    No team has scored against Italy this Cup. But I'll take
                    France/Portugal in the Final.
                    \- It will be pretty funny if Buffon wins the Cupo
                    \- It will be pretty funny if BUFFON wins the Cupo
                       Mondial MVP and then gets indicted ... and in Italy,
                       probably ntbody will care about the indictment. --psb
                       probably nobody cares about the indictment. --psb
                 \_ Yeah, I think too that the US draw against Italy was
                    quite unfortunate. US placed a very agressive game
                    with 11 and even 10 playes and managed to maintain the
                    score with just 9 men. However, what happened in the game
                    with Ghana? I didn't see it..
                    \_ They each scored and then Ghana got a PK.
                 \_ That match was strange already though with all the fouls
                    and cards. The US players were totally desperate and
                    couldn't do anything despite being up a man for a bit.
                    Italy had the upper hand in the Germany match too
                    although I wish they'd lost anyway. I am most interested to
                    see the Germany vs. Portugal match now.
                    \_ Really high-quality game.  -John
                       \_ I am annoyed Germany's Frings was suspended because
                          he seems to be pretty important to their game. It
                          might have made the difference.
                          \- Well, I bet MAXI and other ARG supporters are
                             "annoyed" at KLOSE kicking ABBONDANZIERI in
                             the chest.
2006/7/5-7 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:43573 Activity:nil
7/5     Is there a good way in OS X Tiger to create a directory on an
        external (firewire) disk that is owned by root? When I try to
        do this, it becomes owned by "unknown"..
        \_ goto get info, uncheck "ignore permissions on this volume"
2006/7/5-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:43574 Activity:nil
7/5     The freeper seems to be back in force on the motd nowadays!  GO
        FREEPER! --jblack #1 fan
        \_ Back in Black!
2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:43575 Activity:kinda low
7/5     NK stealing Chinese aid trains. How pathetic.
        http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/korea/articles/20060705.aspx
        \_ "While everyone's attention was focused on North Korean missiles,
            the real story is the North Korean economy. It continues to fall
            apart, and more North Koreans are unhappy about that. Worse yet,
            more North Koreans are finding out how badly they have been
            screwed by their leaders."
           This is a dangerous estimation of the current situation. North
           Koreans are not some sort of democratic people who have been mis-
           led by their duly elected officials; they're hostages of a
           totalitarian regime that starves them and keeps them down through
           malnutrition and force of arms. There is little chance of a popular
           uprising in NK. The best you're likely to get is disaffection among
           the generals and a coup.
           \_ There have been food riots in the past, and a few
              assassination attempts on the dear leader, but yeah, you're
              basically right.  It doesn't hurt that China is very
              interested in propping the regime up.
              \_ fuck you.  Neither China nor South Korea is interested in
                 completely disintegration of N.Korea for one simple reason.
                 Neither China nor S.Korea knows what to do with millions of
                 half-starved refugees.  There are already tens of thousands
                 of N.Koreans inside China illegally, and Chinese is not sure
                 what to do with them.   US is 6000 miles away from N.Korea
                 of course won't suffer any consequences of its complete
                 disintegration.  To say China is trying propping the regime
                 up is either one of those anti-China propaganda, or you are
                 just completely clueless on what the fuck is going on in
                 this part of the world.
                 \_ Well China propped it up in the first place (1950).
                    \_ nope.  Korea was partitioned by US and USSR, buddy.
                       China was left in the dark in the Yelta Conference.
                       Again, you have no clue what is going on in this part
                       of the world.
                       \_ motdpoll: Who is more clueless?  The guy who
                          thinks Yalta (1945) was in 1950, or the guy who
                          thinks China was involved in the Korean war?
                          Yalta in 1950 guy: ..
                          China in KW guy:
                          \_ China was fighting us by proxy in the
                             Korean war by providing the father of the
                             current Dear Leader with massive logistical
                             support.
                          \_ This is from a thirty-second google of "china
                             'korean war'":
                             http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/cn-korea.htm
                             I'll go with Yenta.
                             \_ Yes, China was involved in the Korean war,
                                they kept the US from unifying Korea
                                under the SK government.  The "poll" was
                                just supposed to be a funny way of
                                pointing out what an idiot and blowhard
                                Chicom is.
                                \_ I think the motd is too clueless to
                                   get this humor. -China in KW guy
                 \_ Uh, why "fuck you"?  You've just confirmed that "China
                    is very interested in propping the regime up."  -John
                    \_ there is a difference between prevent a regime from
                       completely disintergration versus propping it up.
                       Yes, China ships food and fuel to N.Korea every week.
                       But this is about the only leverage China has over
                       N.Korea.   How much leverage does US have?
                       \_ So, you don't disagree with the fact, you just
                          don't like how I stated it?  Well, screw you
                          too.
                 \_ Cheap shot: The PRC knows what to do with NK refugees--
                    keep them the hell away from other countries' consulates
                    lest they claim political asylum.
                    \_ Chinese is doing US, Japan, and other European nation
                       a huge favor in this regard.  China could of just throw
                       its hand and say "hey, consulate is your soverign
                       territory, ain't my problem, so, you deal with these
                       North Koreans."
                       \_ This is nonsensical; US, Japan, and the Euro
                          nations have no problem with granting political
                          refugee status to North Koreans who ask for it.
                          To say that the PRC is doing these countries a
                          favor by sending police into consulates to remove
                          these refugees is like saying that the Sudanese
                          government is doing the rest of the world a favor
                          by murdering Darfur refugees.
              \_ Not trying to argue with you, but apart from the alleged
                 explosives plot in '04, can you point me toward these other
                 assassination attempts?
                 \_ I'm having trouble finding them now.  I read one where
                    an artillery group loaded a live shell at a parade and
                    took a shot at him.
           \_ A "popular uprising" in the modern world requires outside
              assistance for weapons, etc.  I'm unaware of any attempts to
              create or fund the non-existent popular uprising in NK, but a
              coup might happen if some colonel gets greedy and I'm sure a
              random NK colonel is going to be so much better for the world
              than the random NK in charge now.  It's hopeless.
              \_ A lone colonel is not going to be enough to install himself
                 as generalissimo. If there's a coup, a military junta a la
                 Burma is much more likely.
2006/7/5-7 [Reference/BayArea] UID:43576 Activity:nil
7/5     I've had really bad experiences with Kaiser and I'm no longer going
        to select any HMOs from now on. I have two remaining choices--
        Blue Shield PPO or or Cigna Open Access Plus Plan. What are the
        pros and cons of each choice?
        \_ I've had both, but your individual plan may vary. I prefer
           Blue Shield, because it is accepted just about everywhere.
           However, they are picky sometimes about needing to approve
           services before they are rendered. CIGNA was okay, but I've
           heard bad things.
        \_ Do you mind sharing your experience with Kaiser? I've had
           them for a long time and have had no complaints thus far.
           \- BTW, which Kaiser was your leem experience at? I think
              I can now say at a statistically significant level the
              OAK Kaiser is consderably inferior to South Bay Kaiser
              and possibly SF as well [still collecting SF data].
              [note: this doesnt include any serious procedures requiring
              hospitalization ... mostly internal medicine or getting
              stichted up].
        \_ If you have the right PCP, Blue Shield HMO works well.
                                 \_ Dude, I didn't know you liked to get wet.
                                    \_ White people love Wayne Brady because
                                       he makes Bryant Gumbel look like
                                       Malcolm X.
                                       \_ What white people?  What race are
                                          you?  Would you mind if some
                                          mindlessly racist and stereotyped
                                          posts are made about your skin
                                          color?  Thanks, just checking.
                                          \_ Google: dave chapelle
                                             \_ Reasons I hate Dave Chapelle:
                                                1) People look at me strange
                                                when I sing the theme song
                                                to "The Niggar Family"
                                                2) The previous poster.
                                          \_ Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ, even
                                             Wayne Brady jokes about this
                                             and has been in skits about it.
        \_ Kaiser is great as long as you're not sick.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:July:05 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>