8/29 In the past few years I've been hearing a lot of bad things about the
quality of UCB EECS. I've heard that they're system level stupid
(Java-centric), editor incompetent (pico), and non-UNIX savvy
(M$ NT, MFC C++, etc). Is this true with the grad students?
\_ Latest I've heard is that 162 (OS) is taught in Java now.
\_ Holy shit!
\_ Ya, but recently, students have been programming GUI's in 61b.
That wasn't done too often 10 years ago.
\_ We had an intern this summer (EECS Junior) who had trouble
using the UNIX/Linux CLI (tar/gzip/make/cc). He used pico
almost exclusively, but he knew his C and Perl quite well.
I don't think that this is limited to Cal. We have some
guys from UIUC who can barely use vi/make/cc correctly
and struggle on systems without X11 but if you ask them
to debug code they can do it quite well.
\_ it's not the tool they use but how they use the tools.
If you want Unix + emacs + gcc , you are just as locked
from reality as the people you're attacking.
\_ I've been in the industry for 8 years and I still use Unix and
emacs everyday in all of the three jobs I've had. I'm also using
gcc in the third job right now.
\_ replace "want" with "insist". But then this has been an
often beated down topic not worth revisiting.
\_ i don't think it's the responsibility of a university to teach
you how to use the programming tools of the day. it's job is
to show you the big picture and understand the underlying
concepts. it's assumed that you are smart enough that you
could start using MFC correctly after 2 days even though
you've been using Qt for 3 years. Fundamentally, there is
nothing different between gcc+emacs+gdb/vc++, or gtk,qt/MFC,
or C++,scheme/Java. If you don't know how to make the
transition, you either missed the point of school, or you
should be attending a vocational school. -ali.
\_ Arrrrrrrrrrgh, matey! UCB EECS today warn't nothin' like the
swashbucklin' days of yore, when manly men like m'self walked
the decks of Cory Hall! Back then, we built our own calculatin'
machines out of gears we milled ourselves from rods of iron!
We 'programmed' 'em by movin' the gears into place with wooden
sticks, powerin' the whole works by leather belts attached to a
waterwheel! Men could lose their fingers in works like that --
you could tell the real 'hackers', because they were the ones
walking around with nothing but stumps for hands. Lily-livered
Windows-usin' nancy-boys that they let waltz out of the program
these days -- wait 'til they meet *me* 'round a dark corner
someday!
\_ you had milling machines? you had waterweels? jeez. I remmember
spending my first two years here running on a treadmill to
power the machines for the upper division classes, and cutting
gears out of mastadon tusks with bits of sharp rock.
\_ and you'll what, club them with your stump?
\_ you are right! Try taking CS 164 with VT220 terminals.
\_ Achoi could work on his 162 project with one VT220 terminal in
Cory.
\_ this is one of the funniest things I've seen on the motd in a
while. thanks for making my day.
\_ HAHA!!! What planet are you from?
\_ You didn't happen to write Myst and Riven did you? That would
explain all the inane puzzles....
\_ Both Myst and Riven were written by Christian Fundies, what
more explanation do you need? |