Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 53130
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2019/05/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2009/7/12-24 [Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:53130 Activity:moderate
7/12    Turns out that BART management has been lying to the public and
        the press about salaries, whoops!
        \_ Why do the janitors make $28.09 per hour in California where
           there is plenty of cheap labor and at those prices why are
           the BART restrooms almost always nasty? To me that's ridiculous.
           \_ unions, sinecures, and a sense of entitlement
           \_ $28.09 with no danger of layoff!?  Gee, why am I in software
           \_ $28.09 with no danger of layoff, plus getting paid for 40hrs/wk
              while only working 37.5hrs/wk (see article)!?  Gee, why am I in
              software engineering?
              \_ If you are making anything close to $28/hr in a real
                 software engineering job you need to start looking for
                 a new career, because you are either an idiot or
                 far too easilly taken advantage of.  Especially when
                 the 28/hr includes cost of benefits (any 401k matching?
                 good health benefits?  life/disability insurance?) and the
                 costs of a (oh my!) half hour lunch break.
           \_ There is not plenty of cheap legal labor in California.
              \_ Oh yes there is. My mom used to work in management at a bank,
                 both in retail and at data/call centers. They could find
                 plenty of labor for $14/hour and those jobs have a lot more
                 responsibilities than a janitor does. My niece is assistant
                 manager of an Old Navy while she works her way through college
                 and she doesn't even make $20/hour. There is no shortage of
                 people willing to work for $15-20/hour. Go to your local
                 Taco Bell and ask if any employees want a benefitted janitor
                 job that puts $18/hours in their pockets. This is a crime.
                 job that puts $18/hour in their pockets. This is a crime.
                 \_ I'm sure your niece would make a great janitor.
                    \_ For $28/hour it would really help with school costs,
                       despite your asinine comment.
                       \_ Does she live in the Bay Area? Did she apply? It is
                          hard to get a job you don't apply for. BART is
                          probably mostly interested in people who are going
                          to stick around though, not part timers.
                          \_ <DEAD><DEAD> says it's not currently
                             hiring for "Maintenance, Vehicle & Facil"
                             positions.  Why can't she apply for a janitor
                             position asking for, say, $23/hr when the current
                             ones are costing BART $28.09/hr?  Well, thanks to
                             the union.
                             positions.  Why can't she get a BART janitor job
                             at, say, $23/hr when the current ones are costing
                             BART $28.09/hr?  Well, thanks to the union. -- !PP
                             \_ You say that like it is a bad thing.
                                \_ It is a bad thing for taxpayers, BART
                                   riders, and citizens and legal residents
                                   who are willing to do the same job for less.
                                   BTW what's the unemployment rate now?
                                   \_ Society in general benefits from the
                                      existence of stable decent paying jobs
                                      with good benefits. I am sad that I even
                                      have to point this out to you. How do
                                      "citizens and legal residents who are
                                      willing to do the job for less" benefit
                                      from having salaries in their profession
                                      decreased? What was the area unemployment
                                      rate before the Bush Depression? Unless
                                      you think we are in a permanent state of
                                      10%+ unemployment, it is a bad idea to
                                      whipsaw your employees like this. If we
                                      are still in a deflationary depression
                                      in another year or two, you might have
                                      a point.
                                      \_ Oh sorry, I didn't realize that the
                                         janitorial profession as a whole is
                                         making $28.09/hr on average!
                       \_ You know, there just might be something about
                          being a bank teller, or managing an Old Navy,
                          which means people will accept lower wages than
                          they could get as a janitor.  Gee, I can't imagine
                          what those things might be.
                          \_ I've been a janitor, and it seems much better than
                             managing an Old Navy IMO.
                             \_ yeah, it looks great on your resume, too
        \_ This article also says "It's still true - with caveats that I'll
           explain - that BART wages are at or near the top in the nation, even
           when adjusted for regional differences in cost of living. And the
           take-away message remains the same: BART workers should make salary
           concessions to help the transit district stave off future fare hikes
           and service cuts."
2019/05/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

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2012/7/29-9/24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:54446 Activity:nil
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Font Resize Daniel Borenstein: BART's pay data overstated case, but message the same By Daniel Borenstein Staff columnist Posted: 06/21/2009 12:01:00 AM PDT BART labor costs are far above the national norm, but some of the data that management has been relying on to substantiate that claim during union negotiations overstates the case. Transit district officials are in the middle of bargaining with their five labor unions. For those sessions, BART prepared a salary survey that compared its top labor pay for several jobs to the top rates in similar transit agencies across the country. The conclusion was clear: BART is at or near the highest salaries for train operators, station agents, mechanics, track equipment operators and janitors. The survey seemed solid, so much so that I highlighted it in my column last week with the salary numbers for each of the positions. It's still true -- with caveats that I'll explain -- that BART wages are at or near the top in the nation, even when adjusted for regional differences in cost of living. And the take-away message remains the same: BART workers should make salary concessions to help the transit district stave off future fare hikes and service cuts. But the numbers BART management was using require more explanation in some cases and are wrong in others. The problems with the data became clear when train operators and station agents read my column last week and started comparing their paychecks to the numbers I reported from the survey. In fact, it was data that had been adjusted for several factors, some legitimate, some erroneous. There were several reasons for the difference: First, the consultant who prepared the survey used base salary data provided by BART staff. But, for train operators and station agents, BART submitted the wrong data. As a result, the consultant started with an erroneously high number. Second, the consultant adjusted the salary data upward because these BART workers are paid for 40-hour work weeks, but work only 375 The reason for that is that the employees' eight-hour day includes a paid half-hour lunch break. BART reasoned that, since the employees work fewer hours than they get paid for, the hourly pay rate is actually more. So for the survey comparison, BART increased the hourly pay rate for its workers accordingly. It's a fair point and a factor that should be included in salary discussions, but the adjustment wasn't clear with the data I was provided. As I reported last week, BART workers don't contribute a dime to their substantial pensions. Not only does BART pay the employer's share to the pension plan, it also picks up the portion that's typically paid by the employee -- in this case, about 7 percent of salary. For the salary survey, the consultant added that 7 percent to the base salary. While it's a good idea to account for that 7 percent while doing salary comparisons, BART again should have been completely transparent about it. Finally, in my column last week, I converted the hourly wages to annual salaries to help readers more easily understand the numbers. To do so, I checked with BART's consultant, who told me to calculate using a 2,080-hour work year -- the standard multiplier for a 40-hour workweek. As a result of all these factors, I reported last week that BART's survey showed top-scale train operators and station agents make $78,520 a year in base pay. In fact, the top-scale number for base pay is about $62,545. And the correct number after the pension and lunch-period adjustments should have been $66,924. They maintain that the pension and lunch-period adjustments should be included in the figure. That's still the highest in the national survey and well above the average in each case. But, in getting there, BART management needs to be more careful about the accuracy of its data and more transparent when presenting it.