Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2012:July:29 Sunday
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2012/7/29-9/24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:54446 Activity:nil
7/29    Is it really true that we subsidize auto driving to the tune of
        $5k/yr? Shit I could probably hire a private driver for less...
        \_ You might have missed the point.  Hiring a chauffeur to drive your
           private vehicle won't change the amount of gasoline your private
           vehicle use or the amount of real estate it uses on freeways and
           vehicle use or the amount of real estate on freeways and
           parking lots it takes up for transporting you.  So it won't change
           the situation.  The chaffeur only adds to the non-subsidized part
           of the cost.
           \_ Okay I could hire a bicyle rickshaw driver for less then..
              \_ or live in a sustainable, walkable city with much lower
                 energy requirements, like the rest of the world.
                 \_ ... and hire a rickshaw driver to take me everywhere.
                    Like the rest of the (undeveloped) world.
                    \_ or ride bike like a well developed world (Denmark)
                       or slow down to reduce energy needs:
                       (georgeous women alert)
                       \_ NSFW.  Anyway, the one not being interviewed is hot!
                 \_ Our cities were built around the auto, not trains or
                    walking. Most of the First World's large cities are very
                    dense with almost nothing a few miles outside of them.
                    That's not us. What you are suggesting is building up
                    the urban cores of our cities and convincing people to
                    move back to them. This may happen, but it's not
                    something we can force. In the end, the populace will
                    decide. So far, even though your idea has some
                    traction, most Americans dislike the idea.
                    \_ Agreed.  The following quote from the article best
                       summarizes the reason: "They are making the correct
                       economic decision, but not in a free-market economy."
                       \_ How much do other countries subsidize automobiles?
                          How much do other countries subsidize other
                          forms of transit?
                          Why is it better that long-distance automotive
                          commuting become "the exclusive privilege of the
                          I don't know the answer to the first two
                          relative to the US and I view the third as a question
                          of liberty and equality. I also think that it has
                          less to do with subsidies than with personal
                          preference and the age of the nations involved.
                          Americans *don't mind* paying higher property tax
                          if it means they don't have to take a train and
                          the alternatives don't make sense for the way our
                          cities evolved. We can tax the hell out of gas
                          to force everyone to take mass transit, but *WHY*?
                          \_ Where do you live where people "don't mind"
                             paying higher property taxes? Here in CA they
                             passed Prop 13. If we can enourage more people
                             to take mass transit, we will gain lots of
                             1) Far fewer highway and roadway deaths
                             2) Cleaner air leading to a healthier
                                population and fewer deaths due to pollution
                             3) Healthier and skinnier population due to
                                more exercise
                             4) Trade balance would be much better: the only
                                reason we run a trade deficit today is due
                                to imported oil, most of which goes to transit.
                             5) No US money going to oil shieks, most of whom
                                hate us and finance terrorism
                             6) No need to fight oil wars in the Middle East,
                                saving us lots of money and lives
                             7) Less congestion on the freeways, meaning buses
                                and trucks will be more efficient
                             8) Shorter commutes will mean less stress and
                                quality of life will go up for most people.
                             9) Less land being used for roadways and parking
                                should free up more land for housing, making
                                housing cost less, especially in urban core.
                            10) Fewer suburban homes mean less money wasted
                            10) Fewer suburban homes mean less money spent
                                on running power lines, cable, sewer lines,
                                etc on spread out homes.
                             I am sure I am missing a few things here, but that
                             should be a good start.
                             \_ The huge fire at the Chevron refinery in
                                Richmond today can certainly make the list.
                                More public transit -> less gas consumption ->
                                fewer oil refineries -> fewer accidents and
                                less toxic fume.
                             \_ More productive time spent when on public
                                transit instead of driving.  One can get work
                                done using laptops, read a novel, or surf the
                                web and catch up with the latest gossip while
                                done using a laptop, read a novel, or surf the
                                web and catch up on the latest gossip while
                                sitting on public transit instead of
                                controlling your car and paying attention to
                                the road.  3G/4G coverage is wide, and there
                                is free WiFi on Google shuttles (I heard) and
                                AC-Transit Transbay Buses.  BART also provides
                                WiFi (paid) and 3G even in underground stations
                                and tunnels.
                             \_ I think you should not confuse the public
                                vs. private issue with the gasoline issue.
                                If cars were powered by a clean, renewable,
                                cheap resource would that mean you still want
                                to force people to use public transit?
                                \_ No one is arguing for force to be used, we
                                   are just sick and tired of having to use
                                   our taxpayer dollars to encourage stupid
                                   behavior. If cars were not polluting, safe,
                                   and did not cause congestion, then they would
                                   be great. Where are those flying nuclear
                                   powered cars we were promised?
                             \_ Great.  I'm convinced.  Sign me up.  Now where
                                is the effective mass transit system that I
                                can use to replace my car?  I can get from home
                                to my office in 28 minutes in my car, but it
                                would take over an hour and a half by bus
                                (each direction, so that's a couple of extra
                                hours I'd be spending in transit every day).
                                People stick with their cars because the mass
                                transit options are very limited in their
                                utility.  I *want* to take public transit, but
                                it just can't get me where I need to go in a
                                reasonable amount of time.  Until it can, I'm
                                stuck with driving.
                                \_ Yeah many are stuck with cars. Vote for
                                   politians that will change the status quo.
                                   There are some places in America where
                                   transit works.
                                   \_ Yeah, about three. Let the free market
                                      decide. So far, most would rather get
                                      22 MPG in a Ford F-150 than get on a
                                      bus with a bunch of weirdos for a
                                      commute that is twice as long but
                                      costs just 25% less.
                                      \_ Exactly. Let the *free* market decide.
                                         As the article above pointed out, the
                                         problem now is that the market is
                                         not a free market.  So all the
                                         proposals about stopping mandatory tax
                                         from subsidizing gasoline and roads is
                                         to, in other words, make the market a
                                         free market again.
                                         \_ As long as we stop subsidizing
                                            rail and other public transit,
2012/7/29-10/17 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:54447 Activity:nil
7/23    Hey mconst, check this out:
        int main()
            int i_value   = 16777217;
            float f_value = 16777217.0;
            printf("The integer is: %d\n", i_value);
            printf("The float is:   %f WTF????\n", f_value);
            printf("Their equality: %d WTF?!?!?\n", i_value == f_value);
        Isn't it peculiar?
        \_ "%f" expects a double argument, not a float argument.  -- !mconst
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2012:July:29 Sunday