Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 49497
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2025/07/10 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/10    

2008/3/19-21 [Science/Physics] UID:49497 Activity:moderate
3/19    This is one of the funniest xkcd's I've seen
        http://xkcd.com/397
        \_ This xkcd is not funny.  This is one of the funniest xkcd's you have
           ever seen.  Therefore, you do not like laughing.        ^
           \_ You're an idiot                                      |
              \_ O WAU YR RITE                                     |
                 \_ Yes, this is the level of the argument of the gp.
        \_ MythBusters is totally bad science.  The kind of bad science that
           leads to "proving" theories that are completely invalid.  XKCD
           is wrong wrong WRONG about this one.
           \_ You are precisely the kind of person Zombie Feynman would
              bitchslap.
              \_ My problem is not rigor.  My problem is tests that don't
                 disprove the hypothosis.  Hypothosis is "can x be done".
                 The test is "can I do x via method y".  That may doesn't
                 disprove "can x be done".  (Basically I'm sick of know-it-alls
                 telling me mythbusters proved something doesn't work
                 when mythbusters did no such thing.  People aren't learning
                 to create tests and verify, people are learning "trust
                 the geeks on my tv".)
                 \_ How would you disprove "x can be done"?
                    \_ You can't.  But you go do a lot better than "Can we go
                       faster than the speed of light?  Well we built a really
                       cool rocket car and it only got to 300mph, so we are
                       going to say NO!"
                       \_ Wow, with strawmen like that I can see how you're a
                          much better thinker than the MythBusters.
                    \_ Well, it is probably impossible to show that in an
                       absolute sense most X cannot be done or some phenomenon
                       X is impossible.  The best that one can hope for is that
                       if X was possible it would violate the known laws of
                       physics.
                       Re Mythbusters - I think they pick things that can be
                       disproven/proven for pratical purposes via a reasonable
                       experiement. I think of it as a first approximation,
                       rather than the final proof. Sometimes an approximation
                       may "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts"
                       as much as a final proof will.
                       \_ I'm sorry, they are bad science.  0 controls.
                          Multiple independant variables.  This kind of
                          stuff matters and isn't hard to get right.
                          Why don't they?
                          \_ They routinely have controls.  So you don't watch
                             the show, eh?
                          \_ When did they ever call themselves scientists?
                             They're special effects engineers putting together
                             an entertaining program.  Seriously people...
                             And the XKCD isn't putting them forth as
                             scientists either.  Whatever you're arguing is
                             missing the point.
                          \_ Okay, so they are engineers rather than scientists
                             :-). In any case, the presenters are doing
                             "science" in that they are are verifying claims
                             via experiment, albeit very crude and imprecise
                             experiments. Sure you can probably do a better,
                             more precise experiment, with controls, &c. But
                             it would probably be far less entertaining.
                             If you want rigor, watch Nova.
                             \_ Didn't Nova do a huge string theory special?
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ Well, they had a big 2 hour special
                                   with Brian Greene based on "The Elegant
                                   Universe." I think they have had a few
                                   shorter shows on loop quantum gravity,
                                   string/m-theory, &c. with Neil deGrasse
                                   Tyson. Most of the Nova episodes re string
                                   or m-theory have included some discussion
                                   that the theory may not be physics b/c it
                                   is untestable.
                                   \_ I don't remember Nova string theory stuff
                                      being anything other than a huge
                                      cheerleading PR thing for string theory.
                                        -- ilyas
                                      \_ Hmm. I recall the string theory pgms
                                         as being mostly cheerleading, but not
                                         totally one-sided. Also there was a
                                         program on LQG, which, I think, is a
                                         different, testable, theory that
                                         unites GR and QM w/o all the kookiness
                                         of string/m-theory.
                                   \_ Who is more anoying, Brian Greene or
                                      Neil deGrasse Tyson?
                                      \_ Not sure, but Samantha Carter recently
                                         said that she thinks Neil deGrasse
                                         Tyson is hotter.
                 \_ You're blaming Mythbusters for stupid people.  They're
                    pretty good at narrowing their focus and explicitly saying
                    what that focus is.  Instead of mental wanking (like people
                    asking about a plane taking off from a treadmill), they
                    actually try it.  That *is* valuable, and that's precisely
                    what Zombie Feynman's point was.  It's also a really good
                    shot at string theorists.
                 \_ Mythbusters isn't trying to prove that it impossible for
                    X to be done by any method. I think it is fairly obvious
                    from the show that the presenters pick the methods most
                    likely to accomplish X and then show whether X can be
                    accomplished via those methods. If it turns out that X
                    cannot be accomplished via the methods selected, then
                    the presenters conclude that it is unlikely that X can
                    accomplished. Although it is not a rigorous proof that
                    X cannot be accomplished at all, the demonstration can
                    be considered a sufficient approximation for most purposes.
                    The show can also be considered to as "educational" in the
                    sense that it teaches people to disbelieve claims that
                    cannot be demonstrated via experiment.
                    \_ Ack this is just bull. Something either is, or isn't.
                       You're either with us, or against us, it's as simple
                       as that!
                       \_ Does this pass for humor in your circles?
2025/07/10 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/10    

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2009/12/2-9 [Science/Physics] UID:53557 Activity:nil
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2009/11/11-30 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:53518 Activity:low
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2009/5/27-6/3 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:53048 Activity:low
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2009/4/20-28 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:52875 Activity:kinda low
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	...
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	...
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