Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 47881
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2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

2007/9/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47881 Activity:kinda low
9/3     "We invaded a sovereign nation based on a lie."
        http://www.csua.org/u/jfo
        \_ BS.  Go back to your cage Michael Moore.
           \_ You're kind of reaching the bottom of the barrel when
              you don't really need to, to get that kind of quote from
              the web, I don't think that was the main point of the
              article.  I think you can find plenty of Republicans
              now who would agree that we invaded Iraq for unknown
              or disengenous reasons.
              \_ Lie != Intelligence Failure
                 \_ At what point does a willful ignorance and denial of
                    fact cease to be the fault of the intel provider and
                    become the fault of the intel receiver? And then at what
                    point does the refusal to accept fact then become a lie?
                    \_ If you don't find out the intel is wrong until after
                       you've invaded then it isn't a lie that caused you
                       to go in.  It was ignorance.  So to answer your
                       question in this context: never.
                       \_ Okay, now what if you tell your intel people that
                          you only want intel that backs up your premise? At
                          what point does willful, active ignorance like that
                          become lying?
        \_ There was a recent Tom Tomorrow comic where he had a dream
           that everyone, from the bush admin to the press to the pundits
           to the entire staff of the Weekly Standard realized they had
           made a terrible mistake and dedicated their lives to living
           the rest of their life in exile, obscurity, and penance.  That's
           exactly what I want.
           \_ "My party is Good, the other party is Evil", as seen on Dailykos,
              freerepublic, democratic underground, etc, etc.
              \_ Oh, no, it wouldn't break my heart if everyone who voted to
                 authorize went into exile, etc.
              \_ Like it or not, the War On Terror has been branded as
                 Republican thing.  Good job branding there guys!
                 You can make a pretty strong case that all of the think
                 tanks and pundits and elected officials pushing the Iraq
                 invasion were Republican.  I think pointing out that
                 plenty of Democrats voted to authorize invading is
                 a moot point.  Bush would have figured out a way to invade
                 democrats or no democrats.
        \_ BS.  Go back to your cage Michael Moo    yet?"
                    \_ did you shower between couplings aspo
                     \_ Not as a rule no.
        \_ Does his wife have camel toe?  I just found out yesterday that my
           sister-in-law does.
        \_ Maybe something about having two humps?
              \_ So you still think invading Iraq was a good choice?
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

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Cache (4423 bytes)
www.csua.org/u/jfo -> www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070831/NEWS/708310314/-1/NEWS
MELISSA EVANKO/Pocono Record By HOWARD FRANK Pocono Record Writer August 31, 2007 EAST STROUDSBURG -- A crowd of about 40 people sat in stunned silence as US Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-11, gave his prediction for the future of Monroe County. The New York metropolitan area will grow by 4 million people in the next two decades. And you better act quickly and think about planning and smart growth," he said. Kanjorski held a town hall meeting at East Stroudsburg University Thursday night. It was a sometimes raucous, no-holds-barred question-and-answer session that went well over its allotted two-hour time limit. Kanjorski addressed questions about immigration, his vote for the war in Iraq, impeachment, congestion, President Bush and, of course, the commuter rail line. "All their interstates are built with interchanges planned for the next 20 years. "We can put in a high-speed train from Scranton to Manhattan for $5 billion," an amount Kanjorski said would not be looked on favorably, "but it requires a plan and leadership." Asked if there was any funding coming to help with the congestion issues, Kanjorski answered, "Yes and no." Pike and Monroe are the only two of the state's 67 counties that are growing, he said. "Pennsylvania has pursued a policy for decline, not growth. He warned the population here will double in the next 20 years, and the county would be "stupid to go for opportunistic growth." Some in the audience complemented Kanjorski for his strong stance against illegal immigration. But for difficult issues like those involving undocumented children brought here early in life, he said "we probably need an immigration court who can resolve these problems with mercy." Kanjorski said that although the 1986 Immigration Act gives the president the ability to put people on the border to protect it, "we have a president who believes we should keep the border open to allow people in who were willing to work for minimum wage or below." And although generally reluctant to do so, Kanjorski said he supports "putting the damn army on the border" to keep it secure. The highlight of the night for many was the explanation he gave for his vote on the Iraq war in 2002. "We were told a lot of things that were incorrect or inaccurate" he said. Kanjorski described how, prior to the vote, he and several other representatives were ushered into the Roosevelt Room in the White House and given a 90-minute, highly classified briefing by then National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and CIA Director George Tenant. That we were under a threat and their information was as complete as possible and they (Iraq) had weapons of mass destruction" he said. Within two hours he received a call from the White House, asking if he had any further questions. Kanjorski said he that to enter into a preemptive war, he had to be convinced the threat is imminent. So he was asked to return for another briefing the next morning. In it, he was shown large pictures of a plane "that looked like a mosquito." Kanjorski was told these were called UAVs -- unmanned aeronautical vehicles, the highest black-box weapons we have, and they (the Iraqis) have 1,000 of them, and they can deliver weapons of mass destruction. That included a plane that could spray chemical and biological materials. He was told the intelligence agency had incontrovertible evidence of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. "Use the phrase 'incontrovertible evidence' and you've got my attention. But, he added, "the Iraqis never had one damned weapon." "There was no way they ever took those pictures in Iraq," he said, referring to the UAVs. Kanjorski doesn't believe the president or the national security adviser lied to him "because I believe they were lied to," he said. Asked if he supported impeachment proceedings given the deception, he answered, "I'm a practical and pragmatic person. So we should be paying attention to choosing the next leader. Kanjorski was even open in discussing his opinion of the president. "The president is not a dumb man, he's just not a deep man. He can be a deep man, but he's never had to exercise his brain. Kanjorski he told a story from earlier in his political career and the wisdom he gained about not rushing decisions. One was a conscientious objector, another was married with children, and someone with physical defects. "If we only had delayed our decision, he would have lived.