Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 40695
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2005/11/22-24 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:40695 Activity:kinda low
11/22   Emacs users: Do your fingers get tired of pressing the Ctrl key
        so much?
        \_ No.     -mice
        \_ I use Kinesis keyboards where they map CTRL to thumb
           operation and I've been really happy since then.
        \_ http://csua.com/?entry=21074
           http://csua.com/?entry=28755
           http://csua.com/?entry=38806
        \_ No.  I don't use the cntl keys for everything -- I try to spread
           basic navigation between both hands, and leave special functions
           to my left.  So far, this has worked very well for me.    -mice
        \_ No.  Actually I've been using only the left Ctrl and Shift keys
           (instead of both left and right ones) for emacs and everything else,
           so as to train my left pinkie which is the weakest.  It works.
           -- piano player
           \- if you are C-f/b/n/p too much, you are probably not doing
              something correctly/optimally.
              \_ My keystrokes are far, far from optimal.  But then I press
                 a lot of C-a C-e C-a C-e ...... out of no reason but boredom
                 anyway, so being optimal is not my concern.  BTW I bind C-q /
                 C-z to scroll down / up one line, and I use them a lot.  Also,
                 I don't swap Caps and Ctrl on my PC keyboard.  -- piano player
                 \- if you dont use incremetnal search to move, you may want to
                    consider that.
           \_ what piano piece(s) are you working on?
              \_ I like Chopin's short pieces like Nocturnes and Etudes.  I'm
                 not good enough to play any of his long pieces.  With a kid in
                 in the family, I rarely practise now.  But on the rare
                 occasion that I play, I find that over the years my left
                 pinkie have gained strength.  Now I don't need any wrist
                 action when playing the low notes.  I think it's nice to write
                 code and get paid at my job while training my fingers at the
                 same time.  BTW, if anyone still remembers the Sun4's in 260
                 Evans and the TVI920c's in Evans basement, those keyboards
                 were even better for training fingers even though they drove
                 me crazy when a project deadline was coming up.
                 were even better for training fingers too even though they
                 drove me crazy when a project deadline was coming up.
                 -- piano player
                 \_ oh my god yes.  I recall how stiff those keys were to
                    press!
        \_ No, I play FPS games and bind walk and crouch to shift and ctrl.
           I can press them all day with my pinky. But I was amused to notice
           that after recently not playing for 6 weeks or so, the next time
           I tried both my hands got really tired.
           \_ Nostromo is calling you! http://csua.org/u/e23 (Belkin)
              \_ lame, it's not even a mouse
        \_ Yes. very. Emacs and screen both kill my pinky finger. switching
           the caps and ctrl key helps, but doesn't make it go away.
           Ultimately, using *nix less helps the most.
        \_ Yes, so I switched to VIM. -emarkp
        \_ As a vi user, no, but doing HTML kills them (all of the <>s and
           ""s)
           \_ ouch.  html is for html-editors
        \_ No, and don't be such a baby.  -meyers
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

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MOTD:Entry 21074 2001/4/24 Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi UID: 21074 Freq:2 Changed:1 4/22 Warning: Emacs is dangerous to your left pinky \_ Warning: vi is dangerous \_ This is crying out for ED! I'm not going to do it.
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csua.com/?entry=28755
Some friends switched to it and liked it, but also noted that their typing speed on QWERTY slowed dramatically. This was mainly an essay-writing time though, not coding.
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csua.com/?entry=38806
entry=37970 \_ Tiger lets you remap the caps lock to the control key. entry=37970 html \_ Looks nice, but I would think your hands would get tired like tha t I would really prefer an input method where I could use most of my up per body for CAD work. The thing Tom Cruise used in "Minority Report" is more the direction I would like to see. It's a replacement for a mouse, the most stupid RSI inducing input device ever made. People with real R SI are individuals who have to deal with heavy manual labor like meat pa ckers or jackhammer operators. html There are no known conclusive studie s linking computer usage to either RSI or CTS. Other studies have shown that the percentage of people who develop any sort of RSI who are regula r computer operators was no different than the percentage of people who develop it in the general populace period, indicating that whatver it is , it's not the computer IO that's causing it it is, it's not the compute r IO that's causing it -williamc -williamc \_ Hmm. she ended up seeing a doctor, and then eventually an ergo consultant, and her injuries healed . And, uhm, no, my 5' 1" sister doesn't operate a jackhammer or any othe r heavy equipment, and she doesn't pack meat. She works at a computer al l day as a statistician for UCSF. It was directly caused by using an old and sticky Sun Type 3 keyboard in a cold room at a shitty desk with bad posture for too long hours at a time. RSI can have equal probability of occurence in general population and computer users, and computer use co uld still cause RSI. In fact, can any people who are knowledgeable about courtroom arguments enlighten me on how lawyers attempt to prove causat ion in courts? And she worked long hours on not ergonomic computer syste ms, but that may just be a coincidence, she's obviously lying about the heavy manual labor side jobs she must have been employed in! As I stated before, there are no conclusive epi studies that support CTS with the w orkplace in general, although there appear to be strong causal linkages to heavy manual labor. htm I'm highly skeptical that CTS is caused by co mputer IO. If it was you'd actually see a direct statistical correlation to computer usage and CTS or other ailments of the sort. For example, i t may be that people who are predisposed to computer use also have a nat ural resistance to developing CTS. Still though I think the broader poin t of the op is that typing doesn't cause it any more than doing whatever else people are likely to have to do to get by, which a lack of correla tion certainly is evidence of. You cannot conclude ANYTHING causal from correlative information alone, regardless of what that information might be. It may be that the frequencies are the same for computer users, typ ers, and the general populace, yet computer use causes CTS, and typing d oes not. In order to determine anything here you need to either force pe ople to use typewriters or computers (which decouples the hidden common causes involved), or use randomized experiments (which fakes the same ki nd of decoupling). The evidence may not point in the right direction and it certainly is not conclusive, but a demonstrated lack of correlation between typing for a living and CTS and increased risk of CTS certainly *IS* evidence that typing doesn't cause CTS anymore than average. Especi ally in the absense of any reasonable hypothosis about why people in tha t field would be unrepre- sentative and Especially since i'd predict tha t people in that field, if anything, should be more likely to get it and more likely to whine about it when they did. People who do have CTS may have gotten it regardless of computer IO or not. Think about it, the cu rrent generation of workers are involved with the least amount of manual labor in probably the history of mankind. Why then did our forebearers not complain constantly about CTS? If you don't think working on a farm during the turn of the 20th century required constant repetitive tasks, well, what can one say... Also, one would think CTS would be much more p revalent in the past before the advent of modern soft-touch keyboards. I n addition, writing in general is much harder on the hands. I get writer 's cramp, I've never gotten "typist" cramp, especially on a modern day c omputer keyboard. Admittedly, some of these keyboards are horrid to type on, and no doubt they would lead at least hand fatigue if used in the l ong term, but realistically, I think human beings are better designed in general to withstand impact than what comes out of typing on a typical modern day keyboard, even if you are typing at 100 WPM for an extended p eriod of time. Also, the average programmer probably types a lot less th an a legal secretary, and it's been stated a number of times that there is no correlation between developing CTS or IRS and the amount you type, which makes one wonder... That is, after using emacs for over 10 years I started having pains in my left pinky. The pain spread to my whole arm and I had to get physical therapy a few times. But the thing that reall y helped was using a Kinesis keyboard in which I have to use my thumb to press CTRL and ALT keys. From what you're saying, is there no differenc e between the quality of IO, one that requires more effort or more frequ ency on certain fingers? html Introduction to the TactaPad Movie This mo vie is a silent screen capture of a user interacting briefly with a few applications on Mac OS X It dem onstrates how the TactaPad is full y com patible with existing software. Advanced Interactions in TactaDraw 3:57 See how the features of the Tact aPad can improve the user interface for a drawing tool. This movie demon strates different interaction techniqu es which use both hands, either wo rking together on one task, or in par alle l on two related tasks. It als o shows how tactile feedback can be used t o augment the user experience . html by Brooke E Smith The Bogus Epidemic Everybody knows that using a compute r keyboard can cause repet itive stres s injuries. After all, we're being bombarded with stories in the popular press about the number of employe es who have become disabl ed from keybo ard work. We're constantly being told how to prevent "ergo nomic" ills th rough use of special chairs, key boards, and other device s And if it's t oo late for prevention, billboa rds for hand surgeons o ffer quickie cures for carpal tunnel syndrome and other so-called cumula tive trauma disord ers. However, before you pay o ff the next workman's compensation claim by a co mputer operator, or pur chase a wrist rest fo r your own use while keyboar ding, consider that sc ientific evidence li nking computers with carpal tu nnel syndrome or any other medical condit ion is strangely lacking. When doctors, ergonomists, attorneys, or anyon e else are asked to provide rel iable scientific evi dence that these co nditions are actually caused by c omputer use, they f ail to do so. For this reason, every single lawsuit b rought by a comput er operator claim ing damages based on keyboard use tha t has gone to tri al has ended up in a judgment for the defense. Moreover , cities such as Miami who have required their employees to prove that t heir injuries w ere caused by c omputer use in order to get workman's comp ensation payme nts have avoid ed paying out any taxpayer dollars on these claims. Absent the hype by p laintiff's lawyers, chiropractors, inventors of ergon omic devices, and others profiting from the repetitive stress injury epi dem ic, the essen tial facts about these conditions are as follows: 1 What is a "cumulativ e trauma disorder" or "repetitive stress injury"? Neither " cumulative t rauma disorder" ("CTD") nor "repetitive stress injur y" ("RS I") is a sp ecific medical condition. Some limit use of the term " CTD" t o conditio ns arising from obvious trauma or injury that occurs mor e tha n once, s uch as might be experienced by someone who sustained multi ple but separ ate injuries to his back from playing football on different occ asions o ver the years. In contrast, the term "RSI" is often applied to r epetiti ve activity which is not inherently harmful or inj...