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| 4/3 |
| 2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39659 Activity:nil |
9/13 Funny finger pointing.
"The updated Louisiana death toll came as Gov. Kathleen Blanco lashed
out at the federal government, accusing it of moving too slowly in
recovering the bodies. ...... FEMA spokesman David Passey said he did
not understand what the governor was talking about because, he said,
the state asked to take over body recovery last week."
http://csua.org/u/ddj (Yahoo! News)
Blanco must be suffering memory loss from the flooding.
\_ http://csua.org/u/ddk (AP)
"Federal Emergency Management Agency has slowed down the process by
failing to sign a contract with the company hired to handle the
removal of the bodies, Houston-based Kenyon International Emergency
Services. ...
Blanco said the state would sign a contract with Kenyon, even
though the body recovery is the responsibility of FEMA, because
'I could not bear to wait any longer.'"
\_ Of course, this article does not answer the FEMA claim that
"the state asked to take over body recovery *last week*
[emphasis added]".
\_ state asked, but FEMA didn't respond
\_ Reference please.
\_ FEMA originally hired Kenyon based on a verbal
agreement, and Kenyon started work. FEMA couldn't work
out an acceptable contract. Kenyon threatened to pull
out since they were doing free work until they had a
signed contract.
State stepped in and signed. State will pay Kenyon,
and ask federal for reimbursement later. Look up "body
recovery" on http://news.yahoo.com.
\_ That's essentially what the AP article above said.
Missing is any reference to the state asking to
take over body recovery last week. Note that the
AP article is dated *today*, missing is what exchange
took place between FEMA and the state *last week*.
So I have to repeat my request for a reference to
substantiate your claim that "state asked, but
FEMA didn't respond". Note also that your claim
is contrary to claim by presumably another poster
below. So did the state ask? Did FEMA say no?
Did FEMA not respond? And of course, references for
your claims, please.
\_ I didn't claim that, I'm someone else.
it's consistent with order of events below.
Basically, the point is that FEMA guy did
not dispute key statements from Blanco. By
not disputing them, FEMA guy implies that
Blanco's claims are true. What FEMA guy actually
does it make distracting comments that add
FUD -- but once again, do not contradict Blanco's
claims.
Did you go to http://news.yahoo.com and do what I asked
though?
\_ Mea culpa. With all of us posting anonymously,
it's hard to keep track of who made what claim.
Unfortunately, all I have now is one claim
by a FEMA guy, and contrary claims by anon
MOTD posters to the contrary. As lacking in
crediblity a FEMA guy may be, I think the anon
MOTD posters are even more lacking. In case
of searching for references on yahoo, it is
hardly my place to find evidence for you to
prove your point.
\_ It's the VERY FIRST LINK if you do what
I ask.
\_ Then it's surely not difficult for you
to post a reference.
\_ then it's surely not difficult for
you to go to http://news.yahoo.com, type
in "body recovery", and click on the
first link
\_ At this point I must conclude that
your link must not say what you
claim it does if you are so shy
about posting it. I repeat that
it is hardly my place to dig up
evidence for you to prove your
point.
\_ at this point I conclude that
you are too fearful of being
wrong or of reading
countervailing facts that you
don't want to follow the steps
I outlined
\_ (1) FEMA slow
(2) State asks for responsibility "last week"
(3) FEMA says our responsibility
(4) State says fine
(5) FEMA slow
(6) State signs contract anyway
\_ Great. Please show reference for points 3 and 4.
\_ Great. Please show reference that says it didn't
happen this way. Note what FEMA guy said does not
dispute this sequence of events.
\_ Well, there is one assertion by FEMA that the state
asked for body recovery responsibilities with the
additional statement that "the collection of bodies
is not normally a FEMA responsibility", and there
is one assertion by you that FEMA denied that
request. FEMA guy may lack credibility, but surely
an anonymous poster on MOTD is even more lacking.
\_ an anonymous poster like yourself?
\_ Fair enough. However, I am not anonymously
countering a statement by an identified source.
My anonymous word may not be worth more than
other anonymous words on MOTD, but they're
surely worth less than the non-anonymous FEMA
guy. But so are other sources based on MOTD
opinion, insofar as none of us are on the
scene and privy to internal government
communication.
\_ hey dude, merge better.
anyways, the FEMA guy saying it's "not normally
a FEMA responsibility" just adds FUD, because
FEMA actually initiated with the verbal agreement
with Kenyon. As such, they would be expected
to follow through on the written contract, which
they tried to, but failed to negotiate.
In any case, what FEMA guy said does not
contradict Blanco's claims -- he's just adding
FUD.
\_ Still, all we have is one FEMA guy claiming
one thing, and you claiming that FEMA denied
the state's request. Who are we to trust?
Surely you must have gotten FEMA's denial from
a source. Care to share that source with us?
Or is it privileged communication from an
insider? Or were you there at FEMA's denial
and witnessed the event? I am at a loss how
else you could have known.
\_ whoever said "denied"?
and, merge better please.
\_ Quoting from above, "(2) State asks for
responsibility "last week"[,] (3) FEMA
says our responsibility". I summarized
point 3 by saying FEMA denied the state's
claim. So the question remains. How
did the MOTD poster know about (3)? From
a published source? From a privileged
source? Or did he witness it personally?
\_ != "denied"
\_ OK. That hardly changes anything.
So how did the poster know about
(3)? Published source, privileged
communication, or personal witness?
I should write though, that (3) is
better phrased as "FEMA already had
a verbal agreement, so it seems what
happened is that state was waiting
for FEMA to finalize the written
contract"
\_ Well, you should have, since this
is a substantively different claim
than (3) above. Your new claim
completely avoids your early point
that FEMA claimed responsiblity.
And how does your new claim address
FEMA's claim that the state asked
to take over body recovery?
\_ I never disputed the claim
that state asked FEMA to take
over body recovery.
See step (2) above.
I can agree that reasonable
observers could say my original
(3) and my revised (3) are
substantively different.
\_ So you agree with the FEMA
spokesman after all? Great.
\_ I agree with the statement
that Blanco asked for
responsibility.
The new (3) disputes the
idea that Blanco had
"memory loss", but
instead portrays what
the FEMA guy said as
distracting FUD.
\_ I don't think there's
evidence proving either
FEMA incompetence or
just confusion over the
handover of
responsibility. And I
would hate to defend
either FEMA or LA
without evidence.
BTW, thanks. This has been
a very honest exchange.
\_ Never again will I
oversimplify something
that shouldn't be.
I'll probably break that
promise later ... |
| 4/3 |
|
| csua.org/u/ddj -> news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina_12;_ylt=AqZOlrkIlVLqNRZriFWfXmUbLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl Deaths at 423 By ADAM NOSSITER, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 8 minutes ago NEW ORLEANS - In a day of reckoning across battered New Orleans, the owne rs of a nursing home were charged in the deaths of dozens of patients ki lled by Hurricane Katrina's floodwaters, the death toll in Louisiana jum ped to 423, and the mayor warned that the city is broke, unable to make its next payroll. Environmental Protection Agency finds the air and water are safe. "We're out of nuclear-crisis mode and into normal, day-to-day crisis mode ," Nagin said. The death toll climbed by more than half in a single day to 423, includin g last week's grisly discovery of 34 dead patients and staff members at St. Rita's nursing home in the town of Chalmette in hard-hit St. Louisiana Attorney General Charles Foti charged the husband-and-wife owne rs of St. Rita's with 34 counts of negligent homicide for not doing more to save their elderly patients. The case represents the first major pro secution to come out of the hurricane. "The pathetic thing in this case was that they were asked if they wanted to move them and they did not," Foti said. "They were warned repeatedly that this storm was coming. In effect, their inaction resulted in the de aths of these people." Salvador A Mangano and his wife, Mable, surrendered and were jailed. The attorney general said he is also investigating the discovery of more than 40 corpses at flooded-out Memorial Medical Center in New Orleans. A hospital official said the 106-degree heat inside the hospital as the p atients waited for days to be evacuated probably contributed to the deat hs. Even though both the airport and the waterfront were running at just a fr action of their capacity, the symbolic importance was not lost on a city that only days before had all but collapsed into looting and desperatio n "From a commercial and psychological standpoint, this is five stars," por t president Gary LaGrange said between an outgoing barge shipment of aut o parts to Alabama and the arrival of ship carrying coffee and wood from Argentina, Brazil and Mexico. "This shows the people of New Orleans the ir city is back in business." Some experts had predicted it would take up to six months to get the port operating again after the hurricane damaged terminals and knocked out t he electricity to operate cranes. A backlog of vessels had formed along the Mississippi River, waiting to load and unload cargo. The Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, which escaped wide spread damage from Katrina but was reserved for humanitarian flights in the storm's aftermath, received its first commercial arrival, a mostly e mpty Northwest Airlines flight from Memphis, Tenn. About two dozen peopl e, a mix of emergency workers and returning residents, were handed New O rleans lapel pins as they stepped into the terminal. "Welcome home," airport director Roy Williams said as he greeted the pass engers. Among those returning to New Orleans was Steven Kischner, who said the mo od aboard the plane was "eerie." "I'm anxious to get home to see what our house is going to look like," sa id Sandy Rozales, who lives in an area of New Orleans near a levee break . Those on the flight appeared to be "preoccupied thinking about what th ey'd see when they get home and hoping that the worst wasn't quite what they got." Airport officials hope to be up to 60 flights a day within the week and b ack to full operation of 350 flights a day in six months. Before Katrina hit, the airport was on pace for a record 10 million passengers this ye ar. During a tour of hurricane-stricken Mississippi, US Transportation Secr etary Norman Y Mineta pronounced Katrina the worst disaster for transpo rtation in US history and estimated the damage to bridges and highways including broken and disjointed stretches of vital Interstate 10 at $3 billion. Tuesday brought a sharp increase in the number of people who were given p asses for the day to check on their businesses, save vital records and r etrieve data from computers. "Many of the things that make this place special are still here," said Ru sty White, who was pleased looters had not completely emptied his bar, B ulldog, on the edge of the Garden District. Significant progress was reported by Army Corps of Engineers officials ru nning the operation to pump out flooded areas of New Orleans and neighbo ring parishes. Duane Gapinski estimated that half of the flooded area or less was s till under water, and at the rate of 8 billion to 9 billion gallons a da y, the city was on target to be almost completely drained by Oct. Amid the encouraging signs from the streets, there were promises from the White House and the Federal Emergency Management Agency to learn from t heir mistakes and intensify efforts to help the victims. President Bush said "I take responsibility" for the government's failures in dealing wit h the hurricane, and he said the disaster raised questions about the nat ion's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terrorist attac ks. That's a very important question and it's in the national interest that we find out what went on so we can better respond," the president said. The new acting director of FEMA, R David Paulison, promised to get thous ands of evacuees out of shelters and into temporary housing. "We're going to move on and get them the help they need," Paulison said i n his first public comments since he was named to replace Michael Brown, who resigned under fire over the government's sluggish response to the disaster. Kathleen Blanco lashed out at the federal government, accusing it of moving too slowly in recoverin g the bodies. The dead "deserve more respect than they have received," s he said. But Blanco's outburst created yet another case of bureaucratic finger-poi nting. FEMA spokesman David Passey said he did not understand what the g overnor was talking about because, he said, the state asked to take over body recovery last week. "The collection of bodies is not normally a FEMA responsibility," Passey said. The informati on contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewr itten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associ ated Press. |
| csua.org/u/ddk -> news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050913/ap_on_re_us/katrina_counting_the_dead_3 AP Blanco: Body Recovery Taking Too Long Tue Sep 13, 3:31 PM ET NEW ORLEANS - Louisiana's governor lashed out at the federal government T uesday, accusing it of moving too slowly in recovering the bodies of tho se killed by Hurricane Katrina. Yes No Have you had a US driver's license for more than 3 years? Yes No Has any driver in your household had 2 or more accidents or moving violat ions in the last 3 years? Yes No GET QUOTES The dead "deserve more respect than they have received," Gov. Kathleen Bl anco said at state police headquarters in Baton Rouge. Federal Emergency Management Agency has slowed down the process by failing to sign a contract with the compan y hired to handle the removal of the bodies, Houston-based Kenyon Intern ational Emergency Services. Kenyon is working without a contract but threatened to pull its workers o ut of Louisiana unless either the state or the federal government offere d it a signed agreement, the governor said. "No one, even those at the highest level, seems to be able to break throu gh the bureaucracy to get this important mission done," Blanco said. "Th e failure to execute a contract for the recovery of our citizens has hur t the speed of recovery efforts. Homeland Security Department in Washington, and Kenyon were not immediately returned. Blanco said the state would sign a contract with Kenyon, even though the body recovery is the responsibility of FEMA, because "I could not bear t o wait any longer." The informati on contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewr itten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associ ated Press. |
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