Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:September:13 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/9/13-14 [Recreation/Dating] UID:39647 Activity:kinda low
9/12    Horny Jewish old man dates 2 Chinese women simultaneously and gets
        sued: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050912/od_nm/doctor_dating_dc
        \_ Hey! 47 is not that old!!!
           \_ Hmm.  Which raises the question.  Who's the oldest non-sexually
              active CSUAer?
           \_ Hmm.  Which raises the question.  Who's the oldest active
              (or semi-active) CSUAer?
              \_ How do you define active?  MOTD?  Wall?  Logging in?
                 \_ Not incontinent
        \_ I wonder how many of his patients did this horny fertility
           specialist fertilized?
2005/9/13-14 [Finance/Banking] UID:39648 Activity:low
9/12    I want to tell my bank/online billpay/paypal/whomever to
        cut a PAPER check to person X at Y address.  I don't want
        that person have to fill out some form first, I just want
        them to send a check.  I don't care if it has my name as
        the "from".  What is the easiest/cheapest way to do this?
        \- get a bank/cashiers check and mail it to them?
        \_ Depends on your bank. Mine can do this through Bill Pay.
           Yours probably can, too. Maybe you should start calling
           banks instead of asking the MOTD.
           \_ wow, so unhelpful on the MOTD today.  to the 1st
              person above, I am trying to make things EASIER.
              I'm looking for a solution that lets me sit on my ass
              and avoid going to the friggin' MAILBOX, i'm sure as
              hell not willing to go to a BANK to get a cashiers
              check.  To the second person.  *MY* bank does NOT
              allow me to do it.  If it did I wouldn't be asking.
              I was hoping you (or someone like you) would be
              willing to spend 30 seconds to type the name of their
              bank (or other institution) and thus avoid my
              spending god knows how many hours on hold looking for
              someone at a bank that will even understand the Q.
              and not just say "oh, yeah, our online bill pay doeS
              that", only to find out that it does NOT.  Instead
              you were only willing to spend your 30 seconds being
              an ass.  thanks. -top
              \- Boy now I am glad my answer was unhelpful.
                 \_ You're supposed to tell me what my bank is capable of
                    doing.  If my bank is not able to optimally serve me,
                    you are supposed to get a cashier's check out of your
                    own funds and mail the check to my designated recipient,
                    and I will reimburse you later once I determine that I
                    can do so without undue effort on my part.
              \- did someone stuff a burr in your arse?
              \- kids these days ... the only thing the world
                 owes you is a good old fashioned arse rape.
              \_ Opening an account at a new bank is going to be more
                 trouble than writing a check and mailing it. If your bank has
                 Bill Pay then how do they pay bills if not with a check? Not
                 everyone has ACH. Ask them how they pay bills to vendors
                 who do not have ACH.
2005/9/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:39649 Activity:nil
9/13    As a follow-up to the telescope thread, I've put my friend Vadim's
        answers in ~john/scope if you're interested.  -John
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39650 Activity:low
9/13    "Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all
        levels of government, and to the extent the federal government didn't
        fully do its job right, I take responsibility" -Dubya
        \_ It finally took him how many years to own up to his problems?
        \_ Hell has frozen over.
           \_ Read carefully what Dubya said.  All he said was "I am not saying
              I did anything wrong myself.  But insofar as I am the executive
              head of the federal government, and the federal government
              screwed up, I will accept blame for that."  OTOH, the non-
              partisan Congressional Research Service report said Dubya did
              all he was supposed to do, so maybe he's not to blame.  Yeah, OK.
              \_ I agree with guy who said "Hell hath frozen over"
              \_ I agree with guy who said "Hell has frozen over"
        \_ Bush is becoming a very very bad conservative. As one, you
           should never, ever admit a mistake.
           \- i hardly think this is a "conversion on the road to biloxi"
              i think this is rove, not jebus.
           \_ Actually, in this political climate, nobody should admit
              mistakes, since their partisan enemies will attack them for
              anything.
                \_ "The people who don't want to play the blame game are
                    to blame"
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President] UID:39651 Activity:low
9/12    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/13/opinion/13tierney.html - danh
        \_ Those a certainly a step up from Kennedy and his 3 minute
           questions.
           \- Did Souter write an opinion in Kelo? I thought it was
              only Stevens?
              \_ Stevens wrote the majority opinion for himself,
                 Kennedy, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer. Kennedy
                 wrote a concurrence. O'Connor wrote a dissent
                 joined by Rehnquist and the Defenders of All
                 That is Good and Holy (ie Scalia and Thomas).
                 \- so was this deliberate by the author or a mistake
                    by the NYT fact checkers. it is misleading i think.
2005/9/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:39652 Activity:nil
9/12    Is there any way on Google groups to have "show options" always on?
        \_ sure, install the 'customizegoogle' firefox extension
           \_ Nice extension.  Doesn't do what I want though.
2005/9/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:39653 Activity:nil 80%like:39298
9/12    hey ilyas i have a new link for you
        http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/cat_strange.html - danh
        \_ Awww.. the Tom Cruise story is a hoax.
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39654 Activity:nil
9/13    go bush!
        http://community.webshots.com/photo/414846943/415162080JEfWnC
        http://community.webshots.com/photo/414846943/415161998ZseeBi
        http://community.webshots.com/photo/414846943/414762120hUjBZU
        http://community.webshots.com/photo/414846943/414903120yxipYR
        http://community.webshots.com/photo/418168700/418168700JOWorQ
        \_ Your point?
        \_ Yup, go for her bush!
           \_ Probably waxed.
              \_ Q: What are bushless bushes?
                 A: Jenna and Barbara, waxed.
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39655 Activity:nil
9/13    Non-partisan Congressional Research Service says that Blanco took all
        steps in a timely manner to secure federal assistance.
        http://www2.dccc.org/docs/conyersgaokatrina.pdf
        \_ From the last paragraph titled "Conclusions", "it would appear
           that the Governor did take the stgeps necessary to request
           emergency and major disaster declarations... In response to the
           Governor's requests, it appears that the President did take the
           steps necessary to trigger the availability of Stafford Act
           emergency and disaster assistance...".   Your summary, while
           correct, appears incomplete and misleading.  Nice try though.
           \_ There's been various assertions in the media that she didn't
              respond in a timely manner - hence the link.  Nice try, though.
              \_ Just as there have been various assertions here and in the
                 media that Dubya didn't.  You're still being misleading by
                 just mentioning the one and ignoring the other.
                 \_ Uh, no.  The reflection on Dubya is 1) that he nominated
                    incompetent cronies to head the responsible agencies, and
                    to a much lesser extent, 2) when those agencies were
                    floundering, rather than prod them to quicker action, he
                    went to McCain's birthday party.
2005/9/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39656 Activity:low
9/13    Anthro professor investigated student life by becoming a student:
        http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2005/09/13/freshman_year/index.html
        'In the book, I look at things that the university says it wants to
        focus on. They say, "We're a community of scholars, we're a community
        of diversity, we're about intellectual life." That's what the
        university thinks it is. From what I saw, the student's version of
        these concepts is very different.'
        \_ oh gawd, not to criticize necessarily, but did anyone else find this
           really boring?  basically:  students at fourth-tier university don't
           like to give the impression that they're studying hard so they're
           not branded as nerds/overachievers, they care more about grades than
           learning anything, they take loans to pay for tuition/housing, and
           part-time jobs to pay for iPods and random entertainment crap.
           \_ FWIW, Berkeley students are exactly the same way - only
              difference I can see is that Mommy and Daddy usually pay for the
              iPod and the random entertainment crap.
              \_ I didn't find a lot of Berkeley students to be particularly
                 wealthy, spoiled, or coddled. Some were. It's nothing
                 like private school, though. You should see the kids at
                 the private liberal arts colleges. I found UCB students
                 to be harder-working and less-privileged than many.
                 Addendum: I found a lot of academic, political, and
                 philosophical discussion at UCB. I submit the MOTD as an
                 example. That the professor thinks her students and those
                 at Yale aren't much different is what makes an NAU
                 professor and a Yale professor different.
                 \_ Ditto.  For all the extremism and stupidity I was extremely
                    impressed by the general character of the people I was at
                    Cal with.  FWIW, in the "real world" I've also generally
                    found the above to be peoples' view of Berkeley.  -John
2005/9/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:39657 Activity:low
9/13    If i have an Cholesk decomposition for a banded diagonal matrix,
        is there an easy way to recover the corresponding bands of the
        inverse of that matrix? i am only interested in recovering the bands,
        not the full inverse.
        \_ No.
        \_ Yes.
        \_ I'm not going to answer because you were a fucking know it all
           rahimi dickhead giving people a bad time in the computer lab and
           everyone around you disliked you intensely. Thought you should
           know this so that you'll improve your personality in da future
2005/9/13-14 [Recreation/Dating] UID:39658 Activity:low
9/13    Abstinence-only sex education increases percentage of teenagers that
        have sex:
        http://www.preemptivekarma.com/archives/2005/01/texas_abstinenc.html
        \_ Which is another reason why we shouldn't have sex education in the
           schools.
           \_ Wow.  That's...wow.  I didn't think it was possible to be that
              dumb.  I really hope this is a lame troll or a weak attempt at
              humor.
           \_ You're an idiot.
        \_ yea, it's stupid.  it needs to be combined with christianity.
           \_ s/christianity/pain collars/
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39659 Activity:nil
9/13    Funny finger pointing.
        "The updated Louisiana death toll came as Gov. Kathleen Blanco lashed
        out at the federal government, accusing it of moving too slowly in
        recovering the bodies.  ......  FEMA spokesman David Passey said he did
        not understand what the governor was talking about because, he said,
        the state asked to take over body recovery last week."
        http://csua.org/u/ddj (Yahoo! News)
        Blanco must be suffering memory loss from the flooding.
        \_ http://csua.org/u/ddk (AP)
           "Federal Emergency Management Agency has slowed down the process by
           failing to sign a contract with the company hired to handle the
           removal of the bodies, Houston-based Kenyon International Emergency
           Services. ...
           Blanco said the state would sign a contract with Kenyon, even
           though the body recovery is the responsibility of FEMA, because
           'I could not bear to wait any longer.'"
           \_ Of course, this article does not answer the FEMA claim that
              "the state asked to take over body recovery *last week*
              [emphasis added]".
              \_ state asked, but FEMA didn't respond
                 \_ Reference please.
                    \_ FEMA originally hired Kenyon based on a verbal
                       agreement, and Kenyon started work.  FEMA couldn't work
                       out an acceptable contract.  Kenyon threatened to pull
                       out since they were doing free work until they had a
                       signed contract.
                       State stepped in and signed.  State will pay Kenyon,
                       and ask federal for reimbursement later.  Look up "body
                       recovery" on http://news.yahoo.com.
                       \_ That's essentially what the AP article above said.
                          Missing is any reference to the state asking to
                          take over body recovery last week.  Note that the
                          AP article is dated *today*, missing is what exchange
                          took place between FEMA and the state *last week*.
                          So I have to repeat my request for a reference to
                          substantiate your claim that "state asked, but
                          FEMA didn't respond".  Note also that your claim
                          is contrary to claim by presumably another poster
                          below.  So did the state ask?  Did FEMA say no?
                          Did FEMA not respond?  And of course, references for
                          your claims, please.
                          \_ I didn't claim that, I'm someone else.
                             it's consistent with order of events below.
                             Basically, the point is that FEMA guy did
                             not dispute key statements from Blanco.  By
                             not disputing them, FEMA guy implies that
                             Blanco's claims are true.  What FEMA guy actually
                             does it make distracting comments that add
                             FUD -- but once again, do not contradict Blanco's
                             claims.
                             Did you go to http://news.yahoo.com and do what I asked
                             though?
                             \_ Mea culpa.  With all of us posting anonymously,
                                it's hard to keep track of who made what claim.
                                Unfortunately, all I have now is one claim
                                by a FEMA guy, and contrary claims by anon
                                MOTD posters to the contrary.  As lacking in
                                crediblity a FEMA guy may be, I think the anon
                                MOTD posters are even more lacking.  In case
                                of searching for references on yahoo, it is
                                hardly my place to find evidence for you to
                                prove your point.
                                \_ It's the VERY FIRST LINK if you do what
                                   I ask.
                                   \_ Then it's surely not difficult for you
                                      to post a reference.
                                      \_ then it's surely not difficult for
                                         you to go to http://news.yahoo.com, type
                                         in "body recovery", and click on the
                                         first link
                                         \_ At this point I must conclude that
                                            your link must not say what you
                                            claim it does if you are so shy
                                            about posting it.  I repeat that
                                            it is hardly my place to dig up
                                            evidence for you to prove your
                                            point.
                                            \_ at this point I conclude that
                                               you are too fearful of being
                                               wrong or of reading
                                               countervailing facts that you
                                               don't want to follow the steps
                                               I outlined
              \_ (1) FEMA slow
                 (2) State asks for responsibility "last week"
                 (3) FEMA says our responsibility
                 (4) State says fine
                 (5) FEMA slow
                 (6) State signs contract anyway
                 \_ Great.  Please show reference for points 3 and 4.
                    \_ Great.  Please show reference that says it didn't
                       happen this way.  Note what FEMA guy said does not
                       dispute this sequence of events.
                       \_ Well, there is one assertion by FEMA that the state
                          asked for body recovery responsibilities with the
                          additional statement that "the collection of bodies
                          is not normally a FEMA responsibility", and there
                          is one assertion by you that FEMA denied that
                          request.  FEMA guy may lack credibility, but surely
                          an anonymous poster on MOTD is even more lacking.
                          \_ an anonymous poster like yourself?
                             \_ Fair enough.  However, I am not anonymously
                                countering a statement by an identified source.
                                My anonymous word may not be worth more than
                                other anonymous words on MOTD, but they're
                                surely worth less than the non-anonymous FEMA
                                guy.  But so are other sources based on MOTD
                                opinion, insofar as none of us are on the
                                scene and privy to internal government
                                communication.
                                \_ hey dude, merge better.
                             anyways, the FEMA guy saying it's "not normally
                             a FEMA responsibility" just adds FUD, because
                             FEMA actually initiated with the verbal agreement
                             with Kenyon.  As such, they would be expected
                             to follow through on the written contract, which
                             they tried to, but failed to negotiate.
                             In any case, what FEMA guy said does not
                             contradict Blanco's claims -- he's just adding
                             FUD.
                             \_ Still, all we have is one FEMA guy claiming
                                one thing, and you claiming that FEMA denied
                                the state's request.  Who are we to trust?
                                Surely you must have gotten FEMA's denial from
                                a source.  Care to share that source with us?
                                Or is it privileged communication from an
                                insider?  Or were you there at FEMA's denial
                                and witnessed the event?  I am at a loss how
                                else you could have known.
                                \_ whoever said "denied"?
                                   and, merge better please.
                                   \_ Quoting from above, "(2) State asks for
                                      responsibility "last week"[,] (3) FEMA
                                      says our responsibility".  I summarized
                                      point 3 by saying FEMA denied the state's
                                      claim.  So the question remains.  How
                                      did the MOTD poster know about (3)?  From
                                      a published source?  From a privileged
                                      source?  Or did he witness it personally?
                                      \_ != "denied"
                                         \_ OK.  That hardly changes anything.
                                            So how did the poster know about
                                            (3)?  Published source, privileged
                                            communication, or personal witness?
                                         I should write though, that (3) is
                                         better phrased as "FEMA already had
                                         a verbal agreement, so it seems what
                                         happened is that state was waiting
                                         for FEMA to finalize the written
                                         contract"
                                         \_ Well, you should have, since this
                                            is a substantively different claim
                                            than (3) above.  Your new claim
                                            completely avoids your early point
                                            that FEMA claimed responsiblity.
                                            And how does your new claim address
                                            FEMA's claim that the state asked
                                            to take over body recovery?
                                            \_ I never disputed the claim
                                               that state asked FEMA to take
                                               over body recovery.
                                               See step (2) above.
                                               I can agree that reasonable
                                               observers could say my original
                                               (3) and my revised (3) are
                                               substantively different.
                                               \_ So you agree with the FEMA
                                                  spokesman after all?  Great.
                                                  \_ I agree with the statement
                                                     that Blanco asked for
                                                     responsibility.
                                                     The new (3) disputes the
                                                     idea that Blanco had
                                                     "memory loss", but
                                                     instead portrays what
                                                     the FEMA guy said as
                                                     distracting FUD.
                                                     \_ I don't think there's
                                                        evidence proving either
                                                        FEMA incompetence or
                                                        just confusion over the
                                                        handover of
                                                        responsibility.  And I
                                                        would hate to defend
                                                        either FEMA or LA
                                                        without evidence.
                                                  BTW, thanks.  This has been
                                                  a very honest exchange.
                                                  \_ Never again will I
                                                     oversimplify something
                                                     that shouldn't be.
                                                     I'll probably break that
                                                     promise later ...
2005/9/13-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39660 Activity:nil
9/13    Finger pointing/FEMA thread below reminds me of the following line from
        Plan 9 From Outer Space:
        LT HARPER: "Your guess is as good as mine, Larry. But one thing's sure.
        Inspector Clay is dead...murdered...and somebody's responsible!"
        \_ I don't think there's any evidence of competence in any of the
           governmental parties involved.  But I am also not comfortable
           due to the lack of evidence to say that any one governmental party
           is less competent than any other.  I suspect any such claim at
           this point would be ideological rather than factual.
           \_ I think it's safe to say that all parties in all sectors south
              of the Mason/Dixon line are less than competent.  I used to
              feel bad about this "predjudice", but the older I get, the more
              evidence I see of it.  This clusterfuck would not have happened
              in Boston or Seattle not becuase there's a FEMA conspiracy
              to fuck New Orleans, but because the police and other emergency
              service workers in those places see themselves as public servants
              and not as the biggest gang in the jungle.  Ask yourself why
              the NYPD didn't act like the NOPD on 9/11.  Because of the
              leadership of New York?  Maybe a little, but mostly because
              northern culture is simply, objectively better.  Every single
              NYPD cop had to make a personal choice to put their city before
              their own life, and every single NOPD cop had to make a choice
              to turn into a fucking barbarian the day order started to
              collapse.  The fucking southern trash are right that the schism
              in American culture is about values, they just got it wrong who
              has the values.
              \_ 9/11 NYC was a much different event than Katrina/NO.  Using
                 the response of *some* NOPD in a wide spread disaster as a
                 sign of all southerners being trash vs. NYC in a devastating
                 but physically localised disaster as a sign of the superiority
                 of northerns is, at best, simply inappropriate.  You really
                 think people in NYC are going to "come together and help their
                 fellow man" when the shit hits the fan on a wide scale?  Most
                 of them watched it on TV from home the same as the rest of us.
                 When you start tossing phrases like "southern trash" around
                 as generally applicable to a hundred million people, you only
                 diminish the rest of your points.  Same thing with phrases
                 like "every single NOPD cop had to make a choice to turn into
                 a fucking barbarian".  So every single NOPD cop was looting,
                 raping, and murdering people?  I think not and no reasonable
                 person is claiming that anywhere.  I know people who were
                 there at the superdome as first responders with food, water,
                 medicine, etc.  It wasn't the NOPD shooting at them.  It
                 wasn't NOPD raping children and shooting random innocents.
                 It was "their fellow man".  The same "fellow man" you'd find
                 in any wide spread disaster because that's what some people
                 really are when there's no legal structure to hold them back.
              \_ This is cool.  -John
              \_ I wouldn't judge the entire South by New Orleans. For
                 instance, Florida seems to be able to handle these
                 calamities. The truth is that Louisiana is an extremely
                 poor state and that the people living in and running New
                 Orleans in particular are corrupt and incompetent. I know
                 someone who lived nearby on the Mississippi coast whose
                 house was flooded and the situation there never deteriorated
                 like it did in New Orleans. Of course, those were mostly
                 law-abiding white folks with at least enough money to
                 get the hell out of there - but even the people who
                 stayed came together as a community to help each other.
                 New Orleans is many times larger than those towns, much
                 poorer, and the people are far less educated. Even so, the
                 people who stayed do not represent the entire city. Most
                 people got the hell out of there. The poor, elderly, and
                 criminally-minded are what remained.
           \_ I don't think any reasonable person is heaving blame exclusively
              at any one person - the fact is that the whole system failed.
              My hope is that this failure will lead to a larger conversation
              about how to make government work better and more efficiently -
              but my fear is that politics as usual will guarantee lots of
              expensive pork for the few, lots of opportunistic politics,
              and very little change for the better.  It's also quite alarming
              that in the four years after 9/11, the government (at all levels)
              seems to have become *less* competent at handling disaster and
              catastrophe.  Contrast the four years after 9/11, the amount
              of money spent, and what was accomplished, with the four years
              after Pearl Harbor.
              \_ Look at the finger pointing discussion.  There was clearly
                 a desire to exonerate the LA governor and place the blame
                 at FEMA's feet.
              \_ I think all levels of the government, both federal and state,
                 failed.  Like I said, I don't see any sign of competence
                 anywhere.  But the finger pointing discussion below is a
                 clear example of an attempt to exonerate the LA governor and
                 to place the blame at the feet of FEMA.
                 \_ Yeah, but it's the motd.  I said *reasonable people*. ;)
                    I also believe that the failure is systemic, a failure of
                    the current approach to government at state and federal
                    levels - but that's a discussion for another time.
                 \_ You know, there is a difference between the culpability of
                    state and local authorities and FEMA, because FEMA has
                    *no other reason for existence* other than disaster
                    planning and recovery.  The governor of Louisiana
                    was not elected on the basis of her ability to
                    prepare for and recover from disasters, while everyone
                    involved with FEMA *should* be in their positions
                    because of their abilities in this specific area.  -tom
                    \- by making the "clusterfuck" sound really bad, the
                       region will get a lot of fast tracked money.
                       spreading around "10,000 dead" is probably worth
                       a couple of billion. that moron brownie will cost
                       teh federal govt a couple of more billion. it's
                       too bad he didnt commit suicide like the JAL supervisor
                       after a JAL crash. of course given a lot of this will
                       flow to halliburton, it's not like some of the executive
                       branch people will care ... $2000 for a displaced
                       person, $200,000 to Halliburton Carpet Cleaning Service.
2005/9/13-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:39661 Activity:nil
9/13    To conservatives and small-government supporters, what is your opinion
        on regulating mercury emissions?
        http://tinyurl.com/chhea
        Another fact:  FDA/EPA & number of states have issued fish consumption
        advisories: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/admehg.html
        Don't you think these two things somehow related?
        \_ If the mercury is completely w/in the state it OUGHT to be
           beyond the reach of the fed gov. Re fish - so what? don't
           eat fish, I've never eaten fish (or any other animal) in
           my entire life and I'm doing okay.
           \_ Your mind has been classified as: small and conservative.
           \_ Brilliant!!! Maybe Colorado can charge an exorbitant amount
              of money for water going into California since they have an
              abundance. And you're thinking of privatization right? That's
              great! Go America, go Ronald Reagan, go Conservatism!!!
           \_ Re air, I've never breathed air my entire life and I'm...oh
              wait.
           \_ so your general position is a lack of respect for animal life,
              AND disrespect for people's culinary tastes?
              \_ Are the fish affected by the Hg? If so, let them evolve.
                 If not, what is the big damn problem - why don't you get
                 some culture and stop living off the flesh of dead animals.
           \_ most mercury emitted to the air in the coal-firing powerplants.
              coal contains a very very small amount of mercury, but because
              we burn a lot of it, this become a problem.  Since mercury
              vapor do travel across state lines, what is your opinion on
              Feds impose regulation on state-own power plants?
              \_ Legitimate ways for congress to get pwr over state coal
                 plants would be:
                 1. the plant provided pwr to other states not just
                    the state it was located in
                 2. the plant got coal from another state
                 3. Congress paid for the plant (all or part)
                 4. Congress took over all regulation of all coal plants
                    in the entire US
                 If the state is paying for the plant and it gets all of
                 the coal locally and provides all of the coal locally,
                 it OUGHT to be beyond the pwr of Congress. The argument
                 that the effect of the coal production on other states
                 justifies fed regulation if taken to its logical
                 conclusion justifies congressional regulation of
                 everything. Crime in one state affects another - why
                 shouldn't congress regulate that?
                 The pwr of the fed gov in necessarily limited and should
                 remain so.
           \_ I'm going to shoot you. I've never gotten anything good from
              you in my entire life and I'm doing ok.
              \_ Bring it on!
2005/9/13 [Recreation/Travel/Nola, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Science/Disaster] UID:39662 Activity:nil
9/13    New Orleans: A Green Genocide
        http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19418
        \_ This is posted by jblack
2005/9/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39663 Activity:moderate
9/13    152 people killed in Iraq today. Look,
        before Saddam: No law but order
        After Saddam:  Law but no order
        Which one is worse?
        \_ Nono, a haiku is 5-7-5.  -John
           \_ HEIL GERMAN JOHN!!! HEIL! Wie geht es Ihnen herr Salomon?
              Gibt es hier einen Schwulenclub?
              \_ W00T!  He's back!  Hi heil-cherman-john-guy!  I was hoping
                 you hadn't vanished into troll oblivion!  A good troll
                 farmer should always care for his charges.  -John
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:September:13 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>