9/7 "The three top jobs at the Federal Emergency Management Agency under
President Bush went to political cronies with no apparent experience
coping with catastrophes"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/344004p-293718c.html
\_ What no one here seems to understand is that FEMA has always been
an idiotic and inept agency run by the cronies of whoever is in
power at the time. It has never been different. I was shocked
that so many other people were shocked at how poorly FEMA handled
their duties until I realised that most people don't understand
that FEMA has never been any different.
\_ Then why did the (governor of Lousiana?) get the head of
FEMA under Clinton to help out?
\_ "FEMA has always been an idiotic and inept agency"
\_ so, you think it is a good idea to install another cronies
after 9/11 when entire US is under terrorist threat?
you are very funny.
\_ This is so much partisan bullshit I can't believe it.
"FEMA has always been an idiotic and inept agency"
Who the fuck are you, man?
Who are you, man?
http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm
"In 1993, President Clinton nominated James L. Witt as the new
FEMA director. Witt became the first agency director with
experience as a state emergency manager."
\_ exactly. thanks for making my point. so one time for one
term this one agency had a director who became the *first*
such directory with experience in the field. and you believe
this somehow magically makes FEMA into a great and well
functioning .org until the other party gets in power? Geeze,
talk about partisan bullshit. Except I *can* believe it since
this is the motd. I don't expect reason, logic, common sense.
I do expect people with a political axe to grind, an agenda
to push and an insanely deep faith in the perfection of the
government (esp if it's federal level) followed by endless
rants about evil and/or incompetence when something doesn't
go right federally with excuses made for any local official
as long as the local is from the same party as the ranter.
\_ "He initiated sweeping reforms that streamlined disaster
relief and recovery operations, insisted on a new
emphasis regarding preparedness and mitigation, and
focused agency employees on customer service."
So, do you know what happened to the Veterans
Administration after the appointment of an experienced
leader?
Your label of me as someone who has "an insanely deep faith
in the perfection of the government" is even more
incredible partisan bullshit.
Let's get back to something concrete:
Do you know what happened to the VA after the appointment
of an experience leader?
of an experience leader? -jblack
\_ With very few exceptions all government agencies are very slow
and mostly inept. FEMA is like the DMV of emergency management.
That said, the group of people most responsible for this
disaster are the citizens of NO that stayed in a below-sea-level
bowl with an approaching category 5 hurricane (20 ft storm
surge and 160+ mph winds). Certainly you have compassion on
the small fraction of elderly that were incapable of leaving,
but besides them, these morons of NO created a massive
humanitarian disaster that the US taxpayer now has to pay to
clean up. Next in the line of blame are the inept local and
state officials. There is a very specific chain of command
in disaster response which starts with local authorities. By law
Federal government can only respond at the request of a state,
\_ Are you just stupid? How many times to we have to tell you?
The state DID put in a request for federal assistance.
\_ Are you just stupid Justin? How many times to we have to tell
you? The state DID put in a request for federal assistance.
And it was clearly spelled out that state and local
officials don't have sufficient resources to deal with
the disaster. You can't blame them. When a category 4
hurricane wipes out your emergency services, you're kind
of dependent on outside help.
\_ A state of emergency was declared on Saturday August
27th by the President. FEMA rescue and medical squads
were prepositioned then for the disaster. What you
\_ FEMA squads were given 48 hours to get 1000 people
there. That order came down on MONDAY AFTERNOON.
Two days after the president's emergency declaration.
Just to be exact on what you apparently meant by "then"...
seem to miss is the FEMA/Fed is NOT a first responder.
I had not heard of the destruction of ALL of LA's emergency
services, national guard, and homeland security
resources, what did they do station them on a Gulf beach
to act as a sea wall? Its interesting that all of
NO was essentially intact after Katrina came through and
yet all of these resources were magically "wiped out".
I restate my position: the state
and local authorities criminally failed to execute their
emergency response plans.
\_ 1. It doesn't matter if the federal government declared
or "pre-positioned" anything because in the end, they
failed to act in a timely manner and did jack shit.
2. National Guard and Homeland Security are federal
agencies 3. NOLA being the largest city in LA, a large
enough portion of their emergency services were disabled
to warrant outside help. What was left of LA's resources
was insufficient. 4. Feds ARE the next responders when
state/local services are incapacitated. 4. "all of NO was
essentially intact"? Can I have some of whatever you're
smoking? 5. Your position that local authorities acted
criminally is a blatant attempt to mask the complete
ineptitude of federal authorities who were specifically
requested to help. You know, kind of like when you dial
911 during an emergency when you are in some way
incapacitated and need help? You would expect someone to
show up, not have them sit around their ass complaining
that you haven't given yourself CPR.
that you haven't given yourself CPR. -jblack
\_ You've been trolled by jblack. Dumb ass.
\_ but jblack is being serious isn't he?
\_ Exactly what emergency services are you are referring
to as 'destroyed'? The city was intact after
Katrina. You do realize the levies did not break
until the following morning, right?
There were 140 school buses subsequently submerged
under water 1 mile from the Superdome after the
1 mile from the Superdome after the
flood. Don't you think
maybe just maybe those kind of resources should
have been mobilized and prepositioned for use in
the case of flooding? Don't you think the
disappearance of 1/3 of NO police force is suspect?
The remaining police officers didn't even have
enough ammunition.
Isn't it possible that the city should have
prepositioned MREs and water somewhere above sea
level to feed people it sends to emergency shelters?
What you have is negligence
to put any plan whatsoever into action on the part
of the local authorities and consequently
the city descended into anarchy. The Feds showed up
when they are supposed to and when they always
have in the past - within 96 hours. Throwing up
your hands, crying, running around like a headless
chicken and accusing the CIA of
trying to kill you ala Blanco and Nagin is not
the execution of an emergency plan.
the execution of an emergency plan. You are
projecting responsibilities and authority to
the Federal govt it was never legally assigned. The
state and local authorities knew this and if they
failed to prepare for a fairly obvious disaster
scenario it is their fault. -jblack
scenario it is their fault.
FEMA is not a first-responder,
and FEMA does not have any military police powers to put down
an insurrection. The anarchy that erupted in the 1st 72 hrs
falls squarely at the feet of Blanco and Nagin who criminally
failed to execute their own emergency evacuation plans, as
required by LA law. Lastly, the Federal government dropped
the ball and should have recognized the scale of the impending
disaster because of the incompetence of the local authorities.
Moral of the story: people who rely of the government to
rescue them from a telegraphed natural disaster are going
to be disappointed.
to be disappointed. -jblack
\_ Your Honor, she deserved to be raped. She was asking for it.
\_ I would rely on government to prevent 90% of New Orleans from
being flooded with damage reportedly costing 4x over the
9/11 tragedy.
Am I disappointed? Yes. Could both the federal and state
government have done a better job (within reason)? Yes.
I would also say FEMA was in charge pre-Dubya, and was arguably
strong and effective under Clinton. Dubya weakened FEMA and
transferred primary responsibility for natural disasters to the
states. If a state can't hack it, then is it Dubya's fault for
not ensuring a proper transition, or the state's fault for
dropping the ball?
I already know what your opinion is, as you do mine.
\_ Let's get back to the original post:
How experienced was the head of FEMA under Clinton?
Under Dubya?
\_ 1999 Hurricane Swamped Clinton's FEMA
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/7/134914.shtml
How experienced was the head of FEMA under fucking Klinton?
Under our great commander-in-chief, Dubya? -jblack
\_ Experienced in doing FEMA stuff or experience with horses?
\_ Spelling it "Klinton" is klever.
\_ In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing
down on the Carolinas and Virginia.
\_ In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing down the
Carolinas and Virginia.
President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with
President Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the
proclamation that nly Presidents can make and declared the areas
affected by Floyd "Federal Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and
Military can begin to mobilize. Then he cut short his
meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the rescue
efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast.
That is how you do it.
President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with President
Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the proclamation that
only Presidents can make and declared the areas affected by Floyd "Federal
Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and Military can begin to mobilize. Then
Military can begin to mobilize. Then
he cut short his meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the
rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That is
how you do it.
rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That
is how you do it.
How about this dope's own father during Hurricane Andrew? Once again,
President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a bruta
campain for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day
before and went to Washington where he maritaled
the largest military operation on US soil in soil in history.
He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within
before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US
soil in history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular
military personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within
hours after Andrew passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know,
those people and their stuff was actually where it
belonged, rather than being used for insurgent target-
practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make
Iraq safe for Iranian takeover.
President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a brutal campaign
for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US soil in
history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within hours after Andrew
passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know, those people and their stuff was
those people and their stuff was
actually where it belonged, rather than being used for insurgent
target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make Iraq safe
for Iranian takeover.
target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make
Iraq safe for Iranian takeover.
In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the
same area as Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the
National Guard and ordered all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment
from Tampa and Houston to follow the Hurricane in. There were over
1,00 regular milirary with two dozen helicopters to assist the
Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after the skies cleared.
In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the same area as
Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the National Guard and ordered
all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to follow the
Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military with two dozen
helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after
the skies cleared.
National Guard and ordered
all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to
follow the Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military
with two dozen helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and
National Guard within hours after the skies cleared.
Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on
New Orleans and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly
8,000 National Guard troops because they are in Iraq --
with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush is on vacation.
The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his
bike for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to his
Johnnie McCain's birthday party; and lies to old people about
the multi-billion pharmaceutical company welfare boondoogle.
8,000 National Guard troops because
they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his
bike for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to
Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar
pharmaceutical company welfare boondoogle.
People are dying, the largest port of entry in the United
States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the
emergency 1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough
helicopters or pilots to set them before the levees fail.
The mayor of New Orleans begs for Federal coordination, but
there is none, and the sandbagging never gets done. So Bush
-- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like
WWII. The levees give way, filling New Orleans with water,
sewage, oil and chemicals. Ten percent of all US exports,
and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly go through this
port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS
TICKETS TO A PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford,
with every intention of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS
TO A PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with
every intention of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this
disaster that happened starting last Sunday night.
\_ not exactly objective, but it got a lot of facts. Thanks.
Question: I thought HW Bush was being critized of handling
of Andrews, no?
Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on New Orleans
and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly 8,000 National Guard
troops because they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his bike
for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical company
welfare boondoggle. People are dying, the largest port of entry in the
United States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the emergency
1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough helicopters or pilots
to set them before the levees fail. The mayor of New Orleans begs for
Federal coordination, but there is none, and the sandbagging never gets
done. So Bush -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like WWII. The
levees give way, filling New Orleans with water, sewage, oil and chemicals.
Ten percent of all US exports, and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly
go through this port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS TO A
PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with every intention
of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this disaster that happened starting
last Sunday night.
\_ the best lies are mixed with facts. make it a long rant and
it becomes difficult to tease apart truth from fiction and
in a forum like the motd just not worth bothering.
\_ reiffin, i challenge you to a DUEL.
I am a COMMANDO. --ausman
\_ they have no bread? Well, then, let them eat cake!
\_ Thank you for the clear breakdown. This is exactly the issue.
jblack, your crap about "this isn't the feds" responsibility is
only true in your ugly little pipe dream world. Go buy an island
and start your own country. Then you can pay as little tax as
you want. |
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