9/7     I'm looking for a usb 2.0 pci card that allows a G5 to "deep sleep".
        Does anyone have any recommendations?

9/7     ~90% of the Democrats think the religious right provides a
        negative influence on American culture, while ~90% of the
        Republicans think it provides a positive influence:
        http://pollingpoint.com/results_071305.html
        \_ What about independents?
        \_ In related news, 90% of cats think birds are a tasty treat, while
           90% of birds hate cats.
           \_ Oddly, the 10% dissenting birds are hawks.

9/7     Article from National Geographic Oct. 2004 discussing the
        causes and likely aftermath of a devastating hurricane in NOLA
        http://tinyurl.com/dwmdm

9/7     Olbermann to the rescue:
        http://media.putfile.com/OlbermannSwings (Windows Media, Worksafe)
        \_ Liberal rant alert! Liberal rant alert! After watching this
           trash in its entirety I need to watch Fox News for an hour to
           cleanse my mind.
           \_ s/trash/truth/ ; s/cleanse/pollute/
           \_ For the most part he's completely right.
              We haven't seen this much coordinated spinning in ages.
              What else is going to save Dubya's ass?

9/7     Express your opinion on gender-neutral marriage to Ahnold:

        The gender-neutral marriage bill in CA just made it through the
        legislature intact and is now heading to the Governor.
        It's bill AB 849. If enough people call to support it, hopefully
        we can get it to go through.

        (If you oppose it, well, you can call, too, to express your opinion.
        Mine, obviously is in favor of passage.)

        Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
        State Capitol Building
        Sacramento, CA 95814
        Phone: 916-445-2841
        Fax: 916-445-4633

        It's easy to voice support through the voicemail system -
        the buttons in order to show support are 2 - 1 - 1.
        (and if you want to oppose it, the options would be 2 - 1
        - 2. So don't go flaming me for posting one-sided info)

        You can also use the form at http://www.govmail.ca.gov (be
        sure to use the dropdown to choose AB849 and click the
        SUPPORTING  (or opposing, if you must) button before you
        submit the form.
        \_ Come on, just call it gay marriage -moderate/liberal
           \_ there is quite the busy signal on that number, but that's
              what the Governator's phone system calls it.  --Jon
        \_ Arnold has to hate this bill.  He's probably pro-gay marriage,
           but I doubt he wants to alienate a chunk of his base by signing
           it. Not to meantion, it's over ruling a proposition. (Arnie
           loves the props) Plus he's got other things he's far more
           worried about. I don't doubt that he will sign or veto the bill
           entirely based on this poll.
           \_ don't forget pissing off Maria who 100% knows what the future is
              going to be (anti-gay-marriage laws are unconstitutional)
              \_ Which constitution (state or fed)?
                 If the answer is state - note that the state constitution
                 will probably be amended in almost every state.
                 If the answer is federal - I'd like to hear your
                 constitutional argument.
        \_ The citizens of California already overwhelming expressed their
           opinion in Proposition 22.  You would think the left would have
           learned their lessons in 2004.
           \_ We'll see which one is ruled unconstitutional, then.
              And, funny thing, the left doesn't look at preventing
              people from their due civil rights as a lesson.

9/7     Tell us about the stars, ilyas:
        http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=re6qxnz1
        \_ Can somebody explain what the "electrical model of the universe"
           people are on about? Maybe it's valid but they sound something in
           tone like a guy in Sproul Plaza preaching to nobody about trilateral
           commission conspiracy theories. The article above starts normally
           enough and then..Stonehenge?? -- this one goes to 11.

9/7     Prediction: 80 years from now, Computer Archaeology will be
        a popular profession.

9/7     Does Soda support WebDAV for uploading files to a website?

9/7     What does the Bush administration think firefighters should do
        in Lousiana:
        1) Hand out FEMA flyers:
        http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197
        2) Be props to show that Bush is "working":
        http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/6/233139/2154

9/7     "The three top jobs at the Federal Emergency Management Agency under
        President Bush went to political cronies with no apparent experience
        coping with catastrophes"
        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/344004p-293718c.html
        \_ What no one here seems to understand is that FEMA has always been
           an idiotic and inept agency run by the cronies of whoever is in
           power at the time.  It has never been different.  I was shocked
           that so many other people were shocked at how poorly FEMA handled
           their duties until I realised that most people don't understand
           that FEMA has never been any different.
                \_ Then why did the (governor of Lousiana?) get the head of
                   FEMA under Clinton to help out?
           \_ "FEMA has always been an idiotic and inept agency"
           \_ so, you think it is a good idea to install another cronies
                after 9/11 when entire US is under terrorist threat?
                you are very funny.
           \_ This is so much partisan bullshit I can't believe it.
              "FEMA has always been an idiotic and inept agency"
              Who the fuck are you, man?
              Who are you, man?
              http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm
              "In 1993, President Clinton nominated James L. Witt as the new
              FEMA director. Witt became the first agency director with
              experience as a state emergency manager."
              \_ exactly.  thanks for making my point.  so one time for one
                 term this one agency had a director who became the *first*
                 such directory with experience in the field.  and you believe
                 this somehow magically makes FEMA into a great and well
                 functioning .org until the other party gets in power?  Geeze,
                 talk about partisan bullshit.  Except I *can* believe it since
                 this is the motd.  I don't expect reason, logic, common sense.
                 I do expect people with a political axe to grind, an agenda
                 to push and an insanely deep faith in the perfection of the
                 government (esp if it's federal level) followed by endless
                 rants about evil and/or incompetence when something doesn't
                 go right federally with excuses made for any local official
                 as long as the local is from the same party as the ranter.
                 \_ "He initiated sweeping reforms that streamlined disaster
                    relief and recovery operations, insisted on a new
                    emphasis regarding preparedness and mitigation, and
                    focused agency employees on customer service."
                    So, do you know what happened to the Veterans
                    Administration after the appointment of an experienced
                    leader?
                    Your label of me as someone who has "an insanely deep faith
                    in the perfection of the government" is even more
                    incredible partisan bullshit.
                    Let's get back to something concrete:
                    Do you know what happened to the VA after the appointment
                    of an experience leader?
                    of an experience leader? -jblack
        \_ With very few exceptions all government agencies are very slow
           and mostly inept. FEMA is like the DMV of emergency management.
           That said, the group of people most responsible for this
           disaster are the citizens of NO that stayed in a below-sea-level
           bowl with an approaching category 5 hurricane (20 ft storm
           surge and 160+ mph winds).  Certainly you have compassion on
           the small fraction of elderly that were incapable of leaving,
           but besides them, these morons of NO created a massive
           humanitarian disaster that the US taxpayer now has to pay to
           clean up.  Next in the line of blame are the inept local and
           state officials.  There is a very specific chain of command
           in disaster response which starts with local authorities. By law
           Federal government can only respond at the request of a state,
           \_ Are you just stupid? How many times to we have to tell you?
              The state DID put in a request for federal assistance.
           \_ Are you just stupid Justin? How many times to we have to tell
              you? The state DID put in a request for federal assistance.
              And it was clearly spelled out that state and local
              officials don't have sufficient resources to deal with
              the disaster. You can't blame them. When a category 4
              hurricane wipes out your emergency services, you're kind
              of dependent on outside help.
              \_ A state of emergency was declared on Saturday August
                 27th by the President.  FEMA rescue and medical squads
                 were prepositioned then for the disaster.  What you
                 \_ FEMA squads were given 48 hours to get 1000 people
                    there.  That order came down on MONDAY AFTERNOON.
                    Two days after the president's emergency declaration.
                    Just to be exact on what you apparently meant by "then"...
                 seem to miss is the FEMA/Fed is NOT a first responder.
                 I had not heard of the destruction of ALL of LA's emergency
                 services, national guard, and homeland security
                 resources, what did they do station them on a Gulf beach
                 to act as a sea wall?  Its interesting that all of
                 NO was essentially intact after Katrina came through and
                 yet all of these resources were magically "wiped out".
                 I restate my position: the state
                 and local authorities criminally failed to execute their
                 emergency response plans.
                 \_ 1. It doesn't matter if the federal government declared
                    or "pre-positioned" anything because in the end, they
                    failed to act in a timely manner and did jack shit.
                    2. National Guard and Homeland Security are federal
                    agencies 3. NOLA being the largest city in LA, a large
                    enough portion of their emergency services were disabled
                    to warrant outside help. What was left of LA's resources
                    was insufficient. 4. Feds ARE the next responders when
                    state/local services are incapacitated. 4.  "all of NO was
                    essentially intact"? Can I have some of whatever you're
                    smoking? 5. Your position that local authorities acted
                    criminally is a blatant attempt to mask the complete
                    ineptitude of federal authorities who were specifically
                    requested to help. You know, kind of like when you dial
                    911 during an emergency when you are in some way
                    incapacitated and need help? You would expect someone to
                    show up, not have them sit around their ass complaining
                    that you haven't given yourself CPR.
                    that you haven't given yourself CPR. -jblack
                    \_ You've been trolled by jblack. Dumb ass.
                       \_ but jblack is being serious isn't he?
                    \_ Exactly what emergency services are you are referring
                       to as 'destroyed'?  The city was intact after
                       Katrina.   You do realize the levies did not break
                       until the following morning, right?
                       There were 140 school buses subsequently submerged
                       under water 1 mile from the Superdome after the
                       1 mile from the Superdome after the
                       flood.  Don't you think
                       maybe just maybe those kind of resources should
                       have been mobilized and prepositioned for use in
                       the case of flooding?  Don't you think the
                       disappearance of 1/3 of NO police force is suspect?
                       The remaining police officers didn't even have
                       enough ammunition.
                       Isn't it possible that the city should have
                       prepositioned MREs and water somewhere above sea
                       level to feed people it sends to emergency shelters?
                       What you have is negligence
                       to put any plan whatsoever into action on the part
                       of the local authorities and consequently
                       the city descended into anarchy.  The Feds showed up
                       when they are supposed to and when they always
                       have in the past - within 96 hours.  Throwing up
                       your hands, crying, running around like a headless
                       chicken and accusing the CIA of
                       trying to kill you ala Blanco and Nagin is not
                       the execution of an emergency plan.
                       the execution of an emergency plan.  You are
                       projecting responsibilities and authority to
                       the Federal govt it was never legally assigned.  The
                       state and local authorities knew this and if they
                       failed to prepare for a fairly obvious disaster
                       scenario it is their fault. -jblack
                       scenario it is their fault.
           FEMA is not a first-responder,
           and FEMA does not have any military police powers to put down
           an insurrection.  The anarchy that erupted in the 1st 72 hrs
           falls squarely at the feet of Blanco and Nagin who criminally
           failed to execute their own emergency evacuation plans, as
           required by LA law.  Lastly, the Federal government dropped
           the ball and should have recognized the scale of the impending
           disaster because of the incompetence of the local authorities.
           Moral of the story: people who rely of the government to
           rescue them from a telegraphed natural disaster are going
           to be disappointed.
           to be disappointed. -jblack
           \_ Your Honor, she deserved to be raped.  She was asking for it.
           \_ I would rely on government to prevent 90% of New Orleans from
              being flooded with damage reportedly costing 4x over the
              9/11 tragedy.
              Am I disappointed?  Yes.  Could both the federal and state
              government have done a better job (within reason)?  Yes.
              I would also say FEMA was in charge pre-Dubya, and was arguably
              strong and effective under Clinton.  Dubya weakened FEMA and
              transferred primary responsibility for natural disasters to the
              states.  If a state can't hack it, then is it Dubya's fault for
              not ensuring a proper transition, or the state's fault for
              dropping the ball?
              I already know what your opinion is, as you do mine.
           \_ Let's get back to the original post:
              How experienced was the head of FEMA under Clinton?
              Under Dubya?
              \_ 1999 Hurricane Swamped Clinton's FEMA
                  http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/7/134914.shtml
              How experienced was the head of FEMA under fucking Klinton?
              Under our great commander-in-chief, Dubya? -jblack
                \_ Experienced in doing FEMA stuff or experience with horses?
              \_ Spelling it "Klinton" is klever.
        \_ In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing
           down on the Carolinas and Virginia.
        \_ In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing down the
        Carolinas and Virginia.

           President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with
           President Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the
           proclamation that nly Presidents can make and declared the areas
           affected by Floyd "Federal Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and
           Military can begin to mobilize. Then he cut short his
           meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the rescue
           efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast.
           That is how you do it.
President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with President
Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the proclamation that
only Presidents can make and declared the areas affected by Floyd "Federal
Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and Military can begin to mobilize. Then
           Military can begin to mobilize. Then
           he cut short his meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the
rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That is
how you do it.
           rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That
           is how you do it.

           How about this dope's own father during Hurricane Andrew? Once again,
           President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a bruta
           campain for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day
           before and went to Washington where he maritaled
           the largest military operation on US soil in soil in history.
           He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
           personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within
           before and went to
           Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US
           soil in history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular
           military personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within
           hours after Andrew passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know,
           those people and their stuff was actually where it
           belonged, rather than being used for insurgent target-
           practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make
           Iraq safe for Iranian takeover.
President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a brutal campaign
for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US soil in
history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within hours after Andrew
passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know, those people and their stuff was
           those people and their stuff was
           actually where it belonged, rather than being used for insurgent
target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make Iraq safe
for Iranian takeover.
           target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make
           Iraq safe for Iranian takeover.

           In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the
           same area as Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the
           National Guard and ordered all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment
           from Tampa and Houston to follow the Hurricane in. There were over
           1,00 regular milirary with two dozen helicopters to assist the
           Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after the skies cleared.
In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the same area as
Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the National Guard and ordered
all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to follow the
Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military with two dozen
helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after
the skies cleared.
           National Guard and ordered
           all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to
           follow the Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military
           with two dozen helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and
           National Guard within hours after the skies cleared.

           Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on
           New Orleans and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly
           8,000 National Guard troops because they are in Iraq --
           with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush is on vacation.
           The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his
           bike for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to his
           Johnnie McCain's birthday party; and lies to old people about
           the multi-billion pharmaceutical company welfare boondoogle.
           8,000 National Guard troops because
           they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
           is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his
           bike for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to
           Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
           and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar
           pharmaceutical company welfare boondoogle.
           People are dying, the largest port of entry in the United
           States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
           supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the
           emergency 1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough
           helicopters or pilots to set them before the levees fail.
           The mayor of New Orleans begs for Federal coordination, but
           there is none, and the sandbagging never gets done. So Bush
           -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
           singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like
           WWII. The levees give way, filling New Orleans with water,
           sewage, oil and chemicals. Ten percent of all US exports,
           and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly go through this
           port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
           vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS
           TICKETS TO A PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford,
           with every intention of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this
           vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS
           TO A PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with
           every intention of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this
           disaster that happened starting last Sunday night.
           \_ not exactly objective, but it got a lot of facts.  Thanks.
              Question:  I thought HW Bush was being critized of handling
              of Andrews, no?
Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on New Orleans
and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly 8,000 National Guard
troops because they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his bike
for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical company
welfare boondoggle. People are dying, the largest port of entry in the
United States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the emergency
1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough helicopters or pilots
to set them before the levees fail. The mayor of New Orleans begs for
Federal coordination, but there is none, and the sandbagging never gets
done. So Bush -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like WWII. The
levees give way, filling New Orleans with water, sewage, oil and chemicals.
Ten percent of all US exports, and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly
go through this port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS TO A
PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with every intention
of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this disaster that happened starting
last Sunday night.
              \_ the best lies are mixed with facts.  make it a long rant and
                 it becomes difficult to tease apart truth from fiction and
                 in a forum like the motd just not worth bothering.
                 \_ reiffin, i challenge you to a DUEL.
                    I am a COMMANDO. --ausman
           \_ they have no bread?  Well, then, let them eat cake!
           \_ Thank you for the clear breakdown.  This is exactly the issue.
              jblack, your crap about "this isn't the feds" responsibility is
              only true in your ugly little pipe dream world.  Go buy an island
              and start your own country.  Then you can pay as little tax as
              you want.

9/7     Awesome, London's mayor thinks the bombers families should be
        allowed to attend the national memorial service for the victims.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4220836.stm
        \_ I think it's a good gesture.  Or shall the sins of the father be
           visited upon the son, and his son, and further unto 5 generations?
           \_ Ob affirmative action.
           \_ It would be a nice gesture if the victim's families invited
              them (highly unlikely), not the frinkin' mayor.  Inviting
              the murder's family to the victim's funeral is asking for
              trouble.
              \_ True, but it's suicide 'victims' too.

9/7     Savings/money market account motd service:
        INGDirect       =       3.30%
        CapitalOne      =       3.45%
        EmigrantDirect  =       3.50%
        \_ HSBC = 3.75%
           \_ good one.  But HSBC is not advertising that much.
        \_ However, not all of them link easily to an existing account
           at another bank.
           \_ which ones?

9/7     Can the liberal and conservative over-writers PLEASE stop doing it?
        Your scp/ftp-provided anonymity isn't that important to both of you
        is it?
        \_ use motdedit, right?
           \_ even if you don't use motdedit, even vi, jove, or emacs
              will stop you from an accidental overwrite
           \_ motdedit is a tool of the fascist/socialist overlord
              root masters to subjugate the masses under their iron
              root masters to subjugate the massess under their iron
              booted fists! motd anarchist overwriters of the world
              unite! you have nothing to loose but other ppls posts!
                                         \_ And proper spelling!
                                            \_ sp3lling is a t007
                                               of the white male
                                               $indow$ overlord
                                               0ppre550rz! que5t1on
                                               4uthor17y! sp34k
                                               1337! RUN L1NUX!
                                               R1D3 B1K3!

        Boredcast Message from 'tom': Wed Apr 14 20:47:08 1993

        Nick, *just yesterday* I corrected you when you spelled it wrong
        twice in a row.  It's not dyslexia, or typos, it's you being a
        thick-skulled dimwit.  One O in 'lose' as it relates to the Bad News
        Bears.  Two O's in 'loose' as it relates to your mom.
        \_ sp3lling is a t007 of the white male $indow$ overlord
           0ppre550rz! que5t1on 4uthor17y! sp34k 1337! RUN L1NUX!
           R1D3 B1K3! PL4Y N377RE3K!
           0ppre550rz! qu35t10n 4uthor17y! sp34k 1337! RUN L1NUX!
           R1D3 B1K3! PL4Y N3TTR3K!

9/7     Whaddya mean the other Charleston?
        link:www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/12576927.htm

9/7     Its about cats. in sinks.
        http://catsinsinks.com
        \_ I don't know how the owners resist turning on the water.
           \_ my friend used to do this with her kitty. mean mean person.
           \_ They value their arms?
        \_ http://www.stuffonmycat.com

9/7     With uncertainty over the return of evacuees to NOLA and indeed
        NOLA's future in general, would the better real estate bet be on
        places like Baton Rouge or Houston, where most displaced NOLA
        residents will end up?
        \_ in neighborhoods where the poor flood in, prices will plummet,
           white flight, etc.
        \_ baton rouge looks good:  http://csua.org/u/dal (latimes.com)
        \_ In the short term, the huge population inflow from NOLA, flush
           with flood insurance money, should drive up real estate prices.
           Is growth around Baton Rouge naturally bounded by geography?  In
           any case, it will be a few years before private real estate
           development catches up and public infrastructure may take
           even longer.

9/7     MOTD boob-man, I need more pictures!
        \_ Here is the biggest boob in America:
           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:George-W-Bush.jpeg
        \_ http://images.google.com/images?q=boobs&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images
           moron.
           \_ No no no, the true boob man only posts community webshots
              links.  Long live motd boob-man! --boob man #1 fan
                \_ just look on http://bustywebshots.blogspot.com
        \_ http://ame78.com/live.php

9/7     Suck my balls jblack.

9/7     jblack, type "wall y" and then join with us for a deep discussion.
        Wall is like IRC group chat, except it's usually for elite sodan
        only. See you around.

9/7     http://csua.org/u/db1 (governor.ca.gov)
        "[Schwarzenegger] believes gay couples are entitled to full protection
        under the law and should not be discriminated against based upon their
        relationship. He is proud that California provides the most rigorous
        protections in the nation for domestic partners. ... The Governor
        believes the matter should be determined not by legislative action --
        which would be unconstitutional -- but by court decision or another
        vote of the people of our state. ... Out of respect for the will of the
        people, the governor will veto AB 849."
                -Margita Thompson, Press Secretary for Ahnold
        [fyi, I clipped out a couple sentences for brevity, but the
        "unconstitutional" part is the public voting no-gay-marriage and the
        legislature revoking it -- also keep in mind no-gay-marriage may also
        be unconstitutional.  Not sure in both cases.]
           \_ More to the point: Wow.  It's the governor's job to determine
              what's unconstitutional...OK. --scotsman
              \_ few points:
                 1. afaik it is not specified in either the ca state or
                    or fed constitution that the executive cannot make
                    a determination re constitutionality
                 2. the executive (state and fed) is a co-equal branch
                    of gov w/ the legislature and the cts
                 3. it is a judicial decree (marbury v madison) that
                    says that the scotus is the final arbiter re con-
                    situtionality (fed).
                 4. one ought to be free to wonder why a co-equal br-
                    anch, the executive, ought to accept this.
                 \_ What I meant was, _if_ he really really for true wanted to
                    sign this, then he should have signed it, and let the
                    courts do their job.  He's trying, lamely, to have it both
                    ways.  "My hands are tied, dear cahlifohniahns."  BTW, mr.
                    black, ordering your pointless points as bullets don't make
                    you make any more sense.
                    \_ The statement made above implied that the governor
                       could not to determine whether a particular act was
                       constitutional.
                       My point is that there is no basis for this assertion.
                       Neither the federal nor state constitutions preclude
                       the executive from making determinations re
                       constitutionality of legislative acts.
                       At least on the federal level the ONLY authority for
                       the supremacy of the judiciary over the executive re
                       constitutional interpretation comes from the
                       judiciary (see marbury).
                       The question remains, WHY should the executive branch,
                       which is co-eqaul w/ the judiciary and not precluded
                       from constitutional interpretation, defer on these
                       questions?
                       BTW, Who is mr black?
        \_ Um.. Why not post a URL?
           \_ i first got the text from reg-required <DEAD>sjmercury.com<DEAD>

9/7     [fuck you, you motherfucker.  Being a real estate speculator is
         parasitic enough without trying to feed off of disaster.  Please
         please please die. P.S. Fuck you.]
        \_ I've bought a house in Santa Clara and a condo in Sunnyvale
           several years ago. I've also flipped one in San Jose, although
           I didn't make as much as my peers in Las Vegas. Unlike you I'm
           a true believer in the American Dream. My great parents came to
           the US with nothing, and now everyone in my family lives
           comfortably. How? Everyone believes in work ethics. We will
           keep working hard until we retire. Face it. Either you buy
           properties, or you're bought. It's a dog eat dog world.
           Do something about it instead of whining you lazy fuck. God Bless.
           Do something about it instead of whining you lazy fuck. Khuda Hafez.
           Do something about it instead of whining you lazy fuck. Khudah Hafez.
           \_ Ram it up your ass, you cocksucking son of a bitch.  My family
              came here with nothing also, but they actually worked instead
              of becoming the landowning insect trash they fled europe to
              get away from.  Fuck you, fuck all your fellow speculators,
              and fuck your mother.
              \_ 75% of the Americans own land. Why do you hate them?
                 \_ Where did you get THAT stat? url?
                 \_ Of course I don't hate them.  My parents who actually work
                    for a living are among them.  Speculators are a parasitic
                    minority among homeowners.  Unlike fuckhead above, I
                    believe that the American dream means *working* for your
                    wealth so you can buy your own land, not playing a land
                    casino to fuck everyone else, hoping there will always
                    be a bigger fool.
                    \_ Such is the nature of capitalism. Like anything else,
                       you want to maximize return. Look at the history of
                       steel, rail-road, oil, electricity, software, etc.
                       Nothing stops or prevents people from amassing
                       rare commodities, and using their power to gain
                       more power. In fact, this is so much easier in the
                       United States than any other country. Why single
                       out land ownership when there are so many other things
                       that also seem unfair? If anything else, you shouldn't
                       blame the mindless drones from amassing properties.
                       Instead, look at the system that allows and even
                       encourages people to do all that you despise.
           \_ Spoken like a true Christian.
              \_ How do you know the pp is not a Muslim?
                 \_ He didn't say "Allah."

9/7     Test123

9/7     Want proof that Howard Dean is a left wing nut socialist?
        http://tinyurl.com/8hhws
        \_ If you ask a black person from New Orleans, what do you think
           they would say?  Well, they must be wrong, then.  Obviously.
           Black people are always screaming racism this racism that.
           And that means Dean is also nuts.
        \_ Why don't you just say, "Dubya treated the black people of New
           Orleans the same way that he would have treated his loyal base
           had disaster befallen them.  Obviously.  Therefore, Dean is a left
           wing nut socialist."
           Or how about, "Sure, race is a factor in everything.  That's just
           the reality.  But Dean is just stirring the pot for political gain,
           and that only divides America.  Therefore, Dean is a left wing nut
           socialist."
           What sounds better to you?  Yes, for some reason, I do appear to
           be helping your original post.
        \_ Big deal.  John Edwards was preaching class warfare last week.
                \_ I love it when Republicans say stuff like "We give a
                   big tax cut for dividends and the Democrats turn it into
                   class warfare"
                        \_ If nothing else, they are masters of pre-emptively
                           taking away their opponents position so that all
                           the other side can say is "Nuh uh, you are!"

9/7     National Guard preventing media coverage of New Orleans aftermath.
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8045532/#050907c
        \_ The National Guard is under the control of the LA Governor.  Take
           this kind of story to freerepublic.
           \_ And I'll bet somehow, it's Clinton's fault.

9/7     Hi sodans.  I have a question.  My sewage line got backed up, I called
        the plumbers, but when they turned on their equipment, they were
        swarmed by bees and ran away.  The bees are coming from my neighbor's
        rain gutter.  Who should pay for bee removal?  It costs money here
        since the bees are in a building structure.  The bees don't bother
        anyone unless they use loud equipment.  Thanks.
        \_ are you serious?  Should I laugh or feel for you?
           \_ hey man, I downloaded some core files, and brown stuff overflowed
              to the tub drain when I flushed.  i can't do a #2 until the
              sewage line gets cleared, can't do that until the neighbors get
              rid of the bee problem.
              \- um rather than see this as an abstract matter of law, it's
                 possible there is some city rule about this. you might call
                 "the city" to inquire. but it does sound like a legal
                 hypothetical. except we would have something like a
                 backhoe driver who was allergic to bees going into
                 anaphylactic shock and cutting off somebody's internet
                 connection who then suffered day trading losses while going
                 through a divorce with a handicapped spouse. --psb
                 through a divorce with a handicapped spouse.
              \_ sorry about that.  I wasn't sure if you were serious.
        \_ What did your neighbor say when you told him you are being
           attacked his 'his' bees? I think it is his responsibility to
           pay. Did he refuse?
           \_ Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees?
              Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they
              shoot bees at you?
        \_ Call the local beekeeper's association.  Tell them you have a
           hive that needs to be moved.  They will probably be able to have
           someone come and pick up the hive for free.  Also trying to get
           your neighbor to pay is lame.  Bees exist.  These sorts of things
           are noones fault.
           \_ The bees are actually 15 feet above ground, flying out of the
              ~ 3" x 5" opening of his rain gutter .  I suppose I can pay for
              half ...
           \_ It's not about fault. It's about responsibility. It's his
              property. You can't just do it. He needs to. You can offer
              to help pay, but legally it is the neighbor's problem. Like
              the person below says, they are a public nuisance.
        \_ Call your neighbor. If you get no action, call the city. Bees
           can be classified as a public nuisence. You'll need the city's
           permission to remove the hive if your neighbor is unwilling to
           to do anything about it. As for actual removal, see above or
           check Bee Removal in yellow pages/google.
           \- let slip the bees of war
           \_ A bee hive is worth money. Many bee removal places will do
              it for free.
              \_ If it is inside of a structure no one will do it for
                 free. If you find someone who does then post the name.
                 I've had bees several times. Even the county won't do it
                 free if it's up high.
                 \- #ifdef LIBERTARIAN_FRUITCAKE, you may wish to
                    read "The fable of the bees."

        \_ bees are so cool.  i wish i had bees.  i got all the gear.  but i'm not
           gonna tear up your neighbor's house for them, no way.  the workers need
           to just chill and learn to live with bees crawling all over them! -jnat

9/7     Tell us about your GPA, ilyas:
        http://csua.com/?entry=17980
        \_ "The world would be a better place if we were all a little more
            like psb.  This is truth: meditate upon it now."
           HAHAHAHAH
           \- dont drive like me. i changed lane 29 times crossing the
              bridge last time i drove from SF to Berkeley. I think if
              everybody did that, it would cause problems. i have to go now.