7/27    What's the argument against instant runoff voting? Are any of you
        actively against it?
        \_ Are you nuts?  They couldn't even figure out a ballot in
           Florida that was mailed to everyone months in advance and
           you want them to start ranking candidates???
        \_ I think instant runoff elections are great!  On a completely
           unrelated subject: motd liberals, are you not tired of the way in
           which the Democratic Party sells out the interest of the working
           man in favor of shadowy special interests, just like the Republican
           Party does?  Take a stand against corruption now!  Vote for a
           'minor party' candidate that speaks best for you. -- ilyas
        \_ Republicans oppose it because it would help the Democratic party.
           \_ Both major parties oppose it because it would help third parties.
              - Liberal Dem.
              \_ But the "liberal dems" won't go on record with that argument.
                 I was reading various articles and legislative actions about
                 IRV and other electoral reform and progress seems pretty slow,
                 although there are a couple exceptions. Jesse Jackson has an
                 interesting constitutional amendment proposal that would
                 state an explicit "right to vote" and require a winner to
                 achieve majority instead of plurality (leading to IRV or
                 something to that effect).
                 \_ Wait, isn't Jesse Jackson a liberal Dem?
                    \_ No.  JJ is all about JJ.
        \_ You need computers tabulating the vote.  When you have computers,
           you need a paper-based audit trail.  Ready for local elections,
           not ready for state or national yet.
           \_ Well what would make it be ready? In Texas they apparently can't
              even use it at a local or county level and bills to lift that
              restriction quietly died.
              \_ To hold a state-wide election, you would need computers
                 tabulating votes for all precincts, and a paper-based audit
                 trail.
                 \_ Right so why aren't we ready for that system?
                    \_ ... well, someone's got to convince all the little
                       bigwigs at the Capitol to install the suckers and
                       show they can't be manipulated.  I mean, I'm seeing
                       a drudgereport article talking about how all the
                       Florida 2002 gubernatorial data were accidentally
                       "lost due to computer failure".
                       I nominate YOU to go out and lobby the big wigs, and
                       be in charge of selecting the right system and
                       installing them all, and be responsible if something
                       goes wrong.
                       \_ Have you ever worked for/with a government IT guy?
                          I'm not at all surprised a government paid IT guy
                          would fuckup and lose the data.  That's far more
                          likely the reason for data loss than some cabal of
                          evil sysadmins destroying the records as part of
                          their plot to take over the Florida electoral system
                          for Halliburton.
        \_ What does instant runoff mean?
           \_ Instant runoff is a method where you get to rank your 1st, 2nd,
              3rd... choices.  If your first choice doesn't get a plurality,
              your vote falls back to your second choice and so on.
              http://www.fairvote.org has more info.
              \_ How does it work? Voters rank candidates in order of choice:
                 1, 2, 3 and so on. It takes a majority to win. If anyone
                 receives a majority of the first choice votes, that candidate
                 is elected. If not, the last place candidate is defeated,
                 just as in a runoff election, and all ballots are counted
                 again, but this time each ballot cast for the defeated
                 candidate counts for the next choice candidate listed on the
                 ballot. The process of eliminating the last place candidate
                 and recounting the ballots continues until one candidate
                 receives a majority of the vote. With modern voting
                 equipment, all of the counting and recounting takes place
                 rapidly and automatically. (from the FAQ)
                 \_ Compare this description to the current system:
                    1) vote for the guy you like,
                    2) the guy with the most votes wins.
                    The complexity of IRV is reason enough not to do it.
                    \_ It's not complex. Are you an idiot? The whole point is
                       to accurately account for more than two candidates by
                       letting voters express a secondary preference. Why
                       would anyone NOT want elections to more accurately
                       reflect voter desires? It's supposed to be democracy.
                       Having winners with less than a majority support makes
                       me unhappy.
           \_ It's an oral technique perfected by yermom.