6/12    This is prob. been asked many times already, but what is the
        standard scale for converting from hourly/contractor to yearly/
        employee?  Have choice btwn stock option or bonus structure but
        I think i will take bonus structure...  -sky
        \_ Hourly->Yearly is multiply by 2000, but contractor->employee is
           much harder.
        \_ hourly->yearly is correct.  but for contractor->employee i
           usually like to do hourly * 1000.  so if you're making
           $120/hr, that would be $240,000 annual.  but if you want to be an
           employee, it would give around $120,000 or maybe slightly more.
           -uctt
           \_ Wow!  Are you saying that a company will pay twice as much
              to a contractor as opposed to an employee?  Why?  I do realize
              to a contractor as opposed to an employee?
              \_ no, he's saying that contractors have to pay more of their
                 money to the gubmint as taxes
              Why?  I do realize
              that as a contractor you have to pay self-employment
              tax, health insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc.
              When I account for all this it seems to me that contractors
              should get about 1.4--1.5 times as much as salaried employees.
              How do you come up with your x2 number.  Thanks. -emin
              \_ yes, they will pay twice as much for a contractor over a
                 salaried employee.  why?
                 1.  usually contractors are better skilled
                        \_ Hahahahhahahhhahaa.. cough.. gasp... wheeze....
                                \_ contrary to popular belief, not everyone
                                   (other than you) is stupid.  every day
                                   our group is looked at to make sure that
                                   we are adding value to the client's
                                   projects.  and every day they realize
                                   that for every one of our guys we do the
                                   work of at least 3 of their employees.
                                   we work longer hours and more
                                   importantly, we're more productive.
                                   that's why they can justify to their
                                   C-levels the amount of money that is
                                   being spent.  start your own company
                                   and maybe you'll learn. -uctt
                                   \_ Sounding pretty defensive.  I'm sure
                                      each of you is a tremendous value-add
                                      and >insert buzzwords 4 through 16 here<
                                      Yep.  You're worth any 10 normal men!
                 2.  you can get them quickly.  if you need 2 highly skilled
                     java EJB developers with 2+ years of java experience,
                     it will take you at least 2 months to interview 10+
                     people and find 2 good ones and have them start.  with
                     contractors, you can have 2 in your office in 1-2
                     weeks.
                 3.  if you only need them for 3-6 months, you can get them
                     to agree to that.  try telling a salaried employee that
                     "your salary is $120k but you may have to get fired in
                     3 months cuz we won't need you then".
                 4.  they usually do not give them stock, they usually can
                     make them work, and they can usually get rid of them
                     relatively painlessly whenever they want to.
                 short answer?  flexibility.  that flexibility is worth
                 paying 2x.  the 2x comes from experience of hiring
                 contractors, hiring employees, and hiring
                 contractors->employees. -uctt
        \_ uctt, are you a contractor? what do you do?
                \_ contract.
                        \_ No wonder he thinks contractors are more skilled.
        \_ full time employee at my own startup now. never contracted in my
           life.  but i did spent some time in big 5 consulting managing
           various e-Commerce projects and our team of consultants from big
           5 was always much better than the employees in the client company
           (that's why they were paying us $275-$350/hr to be there) -uctt
                \_ No.  They were paying that so management could have someone
                   to blame when it all falls to shit.  No one pays you more
                   because you're more skilled.  They don't have a basis to
                   judge your skill level.
                        \_ of course that's a big part of it.  we'll take
                           the blame if it all "falls to shit".  it's called
                           taking RESPONSIBILITY and i'll take the
                           responsiblity for a project in exchange for the
                           big bucks that they have to pay us.  i've
                           met morons in consulting.  i've met a lot more
                           morons that work as full time employees for the
                           client. -uctt
                           \_ You know why that is, right? The companies
                              that don't need your expertise don't hire
                              you. If there's a better staff in house then
                              likely they'll go with that. Granted,
                              sometimes management does stupid things
                              anyway, but I bet this helps explain your
                              experiences. --dim
                                \_ Holy cow!  I find myself agreeing 100% with
                                   dim.  Hell has just frozen over.
                                   \_ I think it's a great idea to hire
                                      consultants when the current staff
                                      is better.  What's the matter with
                                      you?!?