Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 50422
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2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

2008/6/30-7/14 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50422 Activity:nil
6/30    That Wesley Clark, class act right there.
        http://www.politicususa.com/en/Clark-FTN
        \_ How was Clark questioning McCain's record?  In what way was this
           "swift boating?"
           \_ It wasn't.  The right is just filled with Righteous Anger with
              nowhere to focus it.
              \_ It's not a "swift boat" because it's so stupid it will never
                 stick.
                 \_ It's not a swift boat because it isn't someone lieing
                    about McCain's record.  If it was a switft boat Clark
                    would be claiming that there is a serious allegation
                    that McCain actually intentionally crashed his plane
                    and then just hid in a bunker for umpty whatever years
                    and was never actually a POW in the first place.  Instead
                    what you have is Clark making the very sane point that
                    being a POW doesn't count as experiance towards being
                    president.  (Re: Kerry.  I never thought that being
                    a war hero would make someone a good president (or a
                    bad one) but the swift boaters were lieing in order to
                    cast doubt on if Kerry actually WAS a war hero, not
                    asking "does it matter if he was a war hero?")
        \_ Did McCain really lose five planes in Vietnam?
        \_ When is McCain going to sign his SF-180? What does he have to hide?
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

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Cache (8192 bytes)
www.politicususa.com/en/Clark-FTN
Image Wesley Clark was on Face the Nation today, and he took aim at the idea that McCain's Vietnam War experience makes him more qualified to be president. "He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded, that wasn't a wartime squadron," Clark said. Host Bob Schieffer said that Barack Obama hasn't had these experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. Clark replied that, "I don't think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president." With one swoop, Clark attacked the entire basis for the McCain presidential campaign. McCain spokesman Brian Roberts tried to use Clark's statement to paint Obama as a typical politician, "If Barack Obama's campaign wants to question John McCain's military service, that's their right. But let's please drop the pretense that Barack Obama stands for a new type of politics. The reality is he's proving to be a typical politician who is willing to say anything to get elected, including allowing his campaign surrogates to demean and attack John McCain's military service record." The whole idea that McCain would make a better president because he was a POW is stupid. Clark was not challenging McCain's military record, what he was challenging is the phony idea that McCain's military record makes him a more qualified candidate than Obama. McCain's experience in Vietnam probably shaped his ideology, so isn't it fair to ask if this ideology is the correct one to lead the nation forward at this time. I am glad that somebody finally had the guts to stand up and challenge the Republican Party and their faux patriotism. For too long Democrats have cowered at the prospect of being labeled un-American, so it was refreshing to see Wesley Clark finally step up and challenge these GOP myths. Now I am left to wonder if Clark just elevated himself on Obama's VP short list. But Obama is going to have to be very careful with how much of a leash he keeps on his surrogates. There is also the interesting angle of Clark vying for the VP spot with this sort of attack dog comment. Its an old tactic called Submitted by MikeyG (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 19:37. Its an old tactic called "Good cop Bad cop" have one of your minions say something bad and in return have the Good cop refute and say something fairly nice. The idea that either Senator McCain or Senator Obama would make a better President because of military combat experience alone is a superfluous argument at best and General Clark knows this. General Clark knows that being President of the United States involves experience in the politics of war as well as the mechanics of war. Such arguments to make a case that the GOP is more-American than Democrats are just as superfluous. In his autobiography McCain recounts his being shot down. His grandfather was relieved of his command during WWII. His father served a corrupt president in another false war predicated on GHWBush's, Nixon's, and an element of the Knight of Malta-led, Roman Catholic CIA's assassination of John Kennedy, six weeks after we had been ordered home by NSAM263. McCain went on to betray the wife who faithfully waited for him. He is a serial incompetent married to the Mob without grace, dignity or honor. Submitted by phoenxi (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 15:14. Seriously, get the tin foil hat off and get you an armadillo one, they keep the mind control waves out better. Tin Foil 2 Submitted by phoenix (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 18:52. I'm no where near being blinded by Fox News, but if you mean doing research on conspiracy websites finding a link between a CIA controlled by the Catholic Church assassinating JFK and then that was a great plan to lead up to the Iraq invasion. Then the thing about tying him to the mob with how many connections there? I'd much rather stick with Fox News and their terrorist jab BS than need me some tinfoil to make a hat. Next thing you know Hitler is still alive in Brazil secretly running concentration camps there along with the clones of Heimler and the rest of the Third Reich. all Submitted by Andrew (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 21:36. all you partisan types jump to the biases of cnn or fox news to seem to destroy the credibility of each other. crazy democrats and republicans hating on each other all the time. Submitted by Jay (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 14:06. While Clark is an active member of the Democratic party I'd hardly call him a surrogate and definitely not an attack dog. He has a long record of standing up and speaking his mind on military matters and I don't see this as any different just because we are in the run up to the election. I also think it's ridiculous to say that "Generals should stay out of politics", if so, shouldn't this apply to all retired military officers including McCain? I agree that ACTIVE military members should not participate in the political process beyond voting since they are duty bound to report to the president whether they like him/her or not. However, Wesley Clark is retired and has as much right to participate as McCain has as an ex-military officer. It's too bad if you don't like what he has to say but he has as much right to say it as anyone else and his professional experience adds more weight to his opinion in this case. His comments are far more honest and honorable then the swift boat veterans comments four years ago and I'll bet you had no complaints about them. While Clark is stating the obvious that getting shot down and being a POW doesn't make you qualified to be president, I'd be inclined to go even further. I have serious doubts about McCain's mental fitness to be president after being a POW. Did it break him and make him less decisive in pressure situations? Did it leave him angry and volatile making him more inclined to over-react in a military situation. I don't think anyone would argue that torture can change a person, the question is how has it changed him? Not knowing how it has changed him, I am very concerned with putting him in a position where he is the one person with his finger on the switch. I have tremendous respect for John McCain, other POW's and veterans in general. In fact, I'd support McCain for any position except president. However, I'm far more comfortable giving someone with little or no military experience control over our WMD's because I'm confident he is of sound mind and will make decisions based on his life's experiences, all very similar to mine. With McCain, my fear would be that he too would make decisions based on his life's experiences and those experiences as a POW are understandably horrible. Many veterans came back missing an arm, a leg, their vision or their hearing and they all faced career limitations due to their obvious disabilities. Many POW's also suffered less obvious mental injuries and worked through those problems to have successful careers but I would not be comfortable making a POW president. This may not be a politically correct position to take but sometimes you have to face reality. As a comparison, how comfortable would you be if one of the Guantanamo detainees was elected to lead Iraq? Wouldn't we be concerned that there experiences would color their judgements? Submitted by Nick (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 14:07. McCain crashed four planes - and then after that was finally shot down over Vietnam - seems the Communists did everybody a favour - before anybody got seriously injured. McCain Camp's Statement Submitted by jmeasley on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 14:37. I think that the McCain campaign's statement that this is an attack on their candidate's military experience is a joke. If you watch the interview, Clark even said something along the lines of praising him for serving his country. As has been pointed out above, military experience and foreign policy experience are two very different things. Funny enough, the Republicans are using the same argument with McCain that they ripped apart when John Kerry was the Democratic nominee in 2004. Apparently, military experience only matters to the GOP when the...