12/18   What are some of the words product managers (PM) love to use when
        they talk to each other and to the management? I'll start:
        -silverstein that ass
        -turnkey
        -synergy
        -web 2.0
        -leveraging
        \_ Oh I LOVE this one, everytime my PM says this word every
           engineer on the team start to roll his eyes. Thanks.
        -low hanging fruit
        \_ Wow.  The PM's at your company are either assholes or idiots. -dans
           \_ Yes and your startup is probably full of young assholes
              who think they're all bad-asses like the ones in Facebook.
              Yet another reason I won't work at Facebook.
              \_ but facebook is magically valued at several billion judging from
                 the money microsoft gave them and the arbitrary percentage
                 ownership they pulled out of their ass!  How much is your
              \_ but facebook is magically valued at several billion judging
                 from the money microsoft gave them and the arbitrary percent-
                 age ownership they pulled out of their ass!  How much is your
                 company arbitrarily worth?
              \_ It's awesome how you can make vast sweeping assumptions about
                 the 500+ people at Facebook and the sizeable number of people
                 at Slide, and believe them to have a high probability of
                 correctness.  The folks I've met from Facebook seem young,
                 smart, talented, and ambitious.  Some of them are a little
                 brash, but, in my experience, they're basically cool people.
                 -dans
                 \_ I don't think anyone on motd trust your character
                 \_ you rule dan, you stuck Slide into this motd thread without
                    any prompting.  i am wondering how people come up with
                    the percentage that Microsoft supposedly owns now of
                    Facebook, and then people do the math and decide Facebook
                    is now worth a gajillion dollars.  It's almost as magical
                    as Google's netw worth.
                    \_ "Yes and your startup is probably full of young
                       assholes."  I didn't stick Slide into the thread
                       without prompting.  Microsoft *agreed* to invest over
                       $200M at a valuation of $15B.  Go take a business
                       course where they talk about valuation and you'll
                       understand how this process works.  Granted, Facebook
                       is a private company, so yes, the valuation could be
                       wrong (cf eBay's massive writedown over the purchase of
                       Skype).  As for Google's valuation, it's a public
                       company with real revenues and a high, but not insane
                       P/E ratio.  Of course, at the end of the day, it's
                       worth what people will pay for it.  There's very little
                       that's magic about the process.  Uncertain, yes, but
                       not magic. -dans
                       \_ I know a little about company evaluation.  I still think
                          the Facebook valuation is really arbitrary.  Just because
                          Microsoft says your arrogant buddies down in Palo Alto
                          are worth 15 billion doesn't mean they are worth 15
                          billion.
                       \_ I know a little about company evaluation.  I still
                          think the Facebook valuation is really arbitrary.
                          Just because Microsoft says your arrogant buddies
                          down in Palo Alto are worth 15 billion doesn't mean
                          they are worth 15 billion.
                          \_ I don't think your stance is unreasonable, and I
                             agree that valuation in general is more voodoo
                             and art than it is science so, yes, it *is*
                             arbitrary.  But it's not *completely* arbitrary.
                             I'm not particularly buddy-buddy with any
                             Facebook employees, but I have interacted with
                             them professionally, and chat regularly with a
                             few on IRC.  The folks I am familiar with don't
                             seem altogether arrogant.  Even if the people I
                             know are the exception not the rule, their
                             arrogance is, to an extent, justified.  Scaling a
                             web site to the size and volume of use that
                             Facebook handles is a HARD problem, and there is
                             no handbook or design pattern for how it's done.
                             Building a business to the size of Facebook and
                             continuing to grow at the rate Facebook is
                             growing despite it's already massive size is
                             non-trivial.  Even if you don't like their
                             attitude, you should respect the technical and
                             business achievements of the Facebook folks.
                             Maybe this is why you think the valuation is
                             'magic'.  Do you really appreciate and understand
                             the scale and scope that Facebook is working at?
                             Considering that you intimated that Google
                             doesn't deserve it's net worth, I think you may
                             not be seeing the big picture.  I'm curious, is
                             there an example of a company that you think
                             deserves it's valuation/market cap?  Microsoft?
                             GM?  Halliburton?  Bechtel? -dans
                 \_ I don't think anyone on motd trusts your character
                    judgements.
                    \_ There you go making vast sweeping assumptions again.
                       How's that working for you? -dans
        \_ no brainer
        \_ yermom