2/1     Anyone reccomend a pain reliever for joint (bad shoulder -- ligament
        damage) pain. 1000mg of acetominaphen is not helping and getting a
        timely doctor appt is not easy. Thanks
        \_ I've known several people with chronic back pain who've found
           accupuncture to help a lot.  And unlike back surgery, there's no
           potential downside.  Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't trust
           a back surgeon unless the *only* alternative were to be totally
           crippled for life.
           \_ No potential downside?  What about catching HIV from the needles?
              \_ Right.  Or the accupuncturist could knock you out with a tire
                 iron and sell your organs on the black market.  Good point.
              \_ gee, total strawman there
                 \_ Are they required to sterilize the needles in autoclaves?
                    \_ They cleanse the needles with fire and the sword.
           \_ My mom had successful spinal surgery. Find a surgeon who
              does it with an endoscope. Her surgeon (in the SF Bay
              Area, even though she lives elsewhere) said he hadn't had
              a patient with bad effects of the surgery in over 1000
              performed. Surgery is not like it used to be.
              \_ One time, my drunk friend pulled donuts in an icy parking
                 lot while we took turns hanging on the roof of the car.
                 No one was hurt.  Icy parking lots aren't like they used
                 No one was hurt.  Icy parking lots just aren't like they used
                 to be.
                 \_ If he did it 1000 times maybe you have a point.
                    \_ To extend the analogy, if my drunk friend made more in
                       a month than your yearly income to con people into taking
                       icy parking lot donut rides, would you really take his
                       word for it about the 1000 successful rides?
                       a month than your yearly income to con people into
                       taking icy parking lot donut rides, would you really
                       take his word for it about the 1000 successful rides?
                       Fuck back surgeons.
                       \_ Had a bad surgeon or something? I'd take the
                          surgeon's word for it based on my mom's results.
                          \_ Not me personally, but someone I know was
                             seriously fucked up by one, and based on that
                             whole experience I wouldn't go near one unless
                             life would really really be uliveable without
                             one.  On something like this, I think anecdotal
                             evidence on the negative side is much more
                             important than anecdotal evidence on the positive
                             side.
        \_ Clair Davies: Trigger Point Therapy.  Medically-based personal therapy
           for long-term myofacial pain, which may be your problem.