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| 2005/12/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:40908 Activity:high |
12/7 Where in the constitution and/or law says that you can't have a
gun duel? How about a fist duel between two people (like boxing),
is that still legal? If boxing is legal, how about non-lethal
kendo stick duels, or even katana duels?
\_ Faimiliar with Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton?
\_ I'm betting where you will get in trouble with gun dueling is not
going to be federal law but state/city law. Specifically assault
with a deadly weapon, manslaughter or murder, none of which are
federal crimes (at least under normal circumstances). You are
allowed to box, because thats a consentual sport. You aren't
allowed to kill people, consentual or otherwise.
\_ Ok, let's say there is no intent to kill. Let's say that
ilyas and john hate each other and want to humiliate each
other to settle their scores. They're happy to bruise each
other and may fight it out using nothing but their fists.
Is this legal at all?
\_ Yes unless a passing cop decides to nail us for disturbing
the peace or any number of other reasons, or in response to
someone complaining about two crazy people beating each
other up. And then, that doesn't keep either of us from
calling the cops on the other for assault, or from filing
a civil suit. I believe boxers sign all kinds of waivers
before whaling on each other. -John
\_ In a gun duel intent to kill wouldn't matter. If you killed
someone it would be manslaughter at least. But yeah, I
imagine if you had a fight in the privacy of your own home
voluntarily with eachother, and without lasting injury there
wouldn't be any legal recourse. -pp
\_ Yes, its called boxing. Get a ring.
\_ GUN DUEL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel
\_ CA had a specific provision in the penal code that made Dueling
a separate offense. This was repealed in 1994. Some states still
have such provisions. Strictly speaking a separate provision is
not required to punish dueling b/c it is a general principle that
one cannot consent to a crime against one's person. If both ppl
survive they are both probably guilty of attempted 1st degree
premeditated murder. If one dies the other is guilty of 1st
degree murder. Note that there is no self defense argument b/c
the duelers created the dangerous situation.
\- this is a silly question but for the rest of you with
some interest in legal history, you may wish to read
about Ashford v. Thornton. --lord blackstone
\_ Interesting. Thanks. For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_duel
Summary: Until 1819 dueling was an alternate
dispute resolution method.
\- well i dont think that is fully the "take away"...
it raises the issue of stale law, the evolution
of law, the back and forth between law and
what you might call epistemology. the interesting
detail here is it was essentially forgotten that
trial by battle was still on the books. it wasnt
like 1819 was the year parliament finally got rid
of it ... dueling and trial by battle being common
until then. there had not been a case of trial
by battle for ~200yrs before that and "the system"
was sort of at a loss about what to do. anyway,
if you are interested in legal history, this book
is very interesting ... Charles Rembar: The Law
of the Land. see also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Rembar
\_ it is still much cheaper and saves a lot more time
than litigation. |
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| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel A would-be knight would receive a ritual sl ap in the face, said to be the last one he ever had to accept without re taliating tenfold. Therefore anyone being slapped with a glove, was cons idered, like a knight, to accept the challenge, or be dishonoured. Second) who would, be tween them, determine a suitable "field of honour", the chief criterion being isolation from interruptions. Duels traditionally took place at da wn, for this very reason. It was also the duty of each party's second to check that the weapons were equal and that the duel was fair. At the choice of the offended party, the duel could be: * at first blood, in which case the first man to bleed would lose; Under the latter conditions, one or both parties could intentionally miss in order to fulfil the conditions of the duel, without loss of either l ife or honour. This practice occured despite being expressly banned by t he Code Duello of 1777. Rule 13 stated: "No dumb shooting or firing in t he air is admissible in any case... therefore children's play must be di shonorable on one side or the other, and is accordingly prohibited." Pra ctices varied, however, and many pistol duels were to first blood or dea th. The offended party could stop the duel at any time if he deemed his honour satisfied. For a pistol duel, the parties would be placed back to back with loaded w eapons in hand and walk a set number of paces, turn to face the opponent , and shoot. Typically, the graver the insult, the fewer the paces agree d upon. Alternately, a pre-agreed length of ground would be measured out by the seconds and marked, often with swords stuck in the ground. At a given signal, often the dropping of a handkerchief, the principals could advance to the marker and fire at will. This latter system reduced the possibility of cheating, as neither principal had to trust the other not to turn too soon. Another system involved alternate shots being taken - the challenged firing first. Many historical duels were prevented by the difficulty of arranging the " methodus pugnandi." Brocklesby, the number of pac es could not be agreed upon; and in the affair between Akenside and Ball ow, one had determined never to fight in the morning, and the other that he would never fight in the afternoon. edit Prominent duels To decline a challenge was often equated to defeat by forfeiture, and was sometimes even regarded as dishonourable. Prominent and famous individu als ran an especial risk of being challenged for duels. Geo rges d'Anths, a French officer rumoured to be his wife's lover. d'Anth s, who was accused of cheating in this duel, married Pushkin's sister-in -law and went on to become French minister and senator. The whole affair was instigated by anonymous letters, apparently written by two homosexu al princes in order to revenge d'Anths for his homosexual affair with t he Ambassador of Holland. Mark Twain - then editor of the New York Sun day Mercury - narrowly avoided fighting a duel with a rival newspaper ed itor, apparently through the quick thinking of his second, who exaggerat ed Twain's prowess with a pistol. American Revolutionary War because he believed that the death b y duelling of officers would have threatened the success of the war effo rt. Furthermore, duelling was often used as a faade for legalised murder. Texas have provisions providing for punishments and/or loss of right to vote and stand for office for engaging in or being a second in a duel, provisions held over from the 19th Century. citizen of this state who shall hereafter fight a duel, or assist in the same as second, or send, accept, or knowingly carry a challenge therefor, whether such an act be done in the state, or out of it, or who shall go out of the state to fight a duel, or to assist in the same as second, or to send, accept, or carry a challenge, shall be disqualified from holding any office under this Constitution, and shall be disenfranchised. and I do further solemnly swear (or affirm) that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God. edit Modern duels Duelling still continues to occur, albeit not with regularity. In May of 2005, twelve youths aged between fifteen and seventeen were arrested in Japan and charged with violating a duelling law that came into effect in 1889. One example is a duelling-type scenario with 3 participants, each with di fferent levels of skill as a marksman. Shooter A has a 95% rate of accur acy, shooter B has 75%, and C has 5%. If the shots are fired simultaneously, it is best to be shooter A Simult aneous shots mean that there is no survival-related advantage in targeti ng the more accurate shooter, since his shot will have already been fire d by the time he is eliminated. Therefore, it is best to be A, since he has the least competent opposition. If the shots are not to be fired simultaneously (as occurs in real life) it is best to be shooter C Shooters A and B, operating rationally, will target the more competent opponent hoping to prevent said opponent's sh ot from ever being issued. This means that shooter C is in little danger of being killed himself. recreation and carry little of the cultural weight associated with duels. Often, indee d, the participants of the mock duel will be acquaintances or friends ou tside of the "duel". Airsofting, players may often both take a pistol loaded with one or more shots, and imitate a pistol duel. Specially designed airsoft pistols for this purpose are also available, although normally a standard pistol is used. |
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_duel governments and no standing armies, conflicts between n obles could lead to minor wars, a judicially organised duel was a less e xpensive substitute that gave the litigants and the public the physical satisfaction they wished. The role of the squire was not only to attend the battle, but to a rrange the particulars of the ceremony with the opposing squire. Over ti me, squires would meet and resolve the disputes during negotions over co mbat. King's Bench sa id that: One of the inconveniences of this procedure is, that the party who institutes it must be willing, if required, to stake his life in support of his accusation. The accusation was quickly withdrawn after this judgment. armour, provided that they were bare to the knees and elbows, an d wore only red sandals on their feet. women, the elderly, the infirm of body, and minors could have champions named to fight in their stead. The combat was to begin before noon, and be concluded before sunset. County Offaly), who were persuaded by tw o judges (referred to in the account below) to bring the matter before t he Irish privy council for resolution. The dispute probably concerned dynastic power within the territory of the O'Connors, and the parties, Teig and Conor, had accused each other of t reason; the privy council granted their wish for trial by combat, to tak e place on the following day, and for another such trial between two oth er members of the same sept, to take place on the Wednesday following. The first combat took place as appointed, with the combatants "in their s hirts with swords, targetts and skulles". appeared in the same place brought by the captains to the listes, and there stayed 2 hours making proclamation against his enemy by drum and trumpet, but he appeared not... The only thing we commend in this action was the diligent travail of Sir Lucas Dillon and the Master of the Rolls, who equally and openly seemed to countenance the champions, but secretly with very good concurrence, both with us and between themselves, with such regard of her Majesty's service, as giveth us cause to commend them to your Lordships." |
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Rembar The U S Post Office confisc ated copies sent through the mail. Charles Rembar, working for Grove Press sued the New York city postmaster and won in New York and then on federal appeal. |