Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 33150
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2004/8/26 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33150 Activity:very high
8/25    Here's another poll for the $200 bet guy:
        http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/timespoll/la-na-poll26aug26,1,891368.story?coll=la-home-headlines
        Not looking so good for you but I admire you putting your money where
        your mouth is so early in the race.  I wouldn't have bet a dime until
        after all 3 debates.
        \_ I wonder if we'll be hearing that this is a very liberal poll,
           like we did when it had Kerry ahead by 8 or whatever...
           Anyway, the last LA Times poll was 48/46 Kerry, and now we
           have 49/46 Bush...still deep in margin of error territory. I'm
           with "polls are stupid at this point" guy, whoever he is, but
           I have an even stronger opinion - I don't think we're really going
           to know until the votes are counted.
                             \_ Haha!  Like we can trust the votes to be counted!!!
                     \_ Haha!  Like we can trust the votes to be counted!!!
                        \_ Uh yeah, like the military ones the dems tried so
                           hard to exclude?  Do you *really* want to get into
                           this again?  Your media went over the votes with a
                           fine toothed comb for 6 months.  If GWB could have
                           been made to lose they would have trumpeted it.
           \_ I'm "polls are stupid at this point guy".  I'm just helping out
              "I bet $200 way too early" guy.  :-)   Anyway, I believe the
              margin of error stuff is on a curve so the close one is to the
              margin of error the less likely the error is in play.  That's my
              understanding anyway.  I also don't like their polling method
              which was almost 2000 randoms, about 1500 registered voters, no
              information on likely voters or what the split was among called
              people about their registered party and who they voted for in the
              past.  For these and many other reasons I am "polls are stupid at
              this point guy".  --op
              \_ You know polling isn't exactly rocket science. Just because
                 they don't share their methodology with you doesn't mean
                 they don't know how to pick a representative sample.
                 \_ but to be taken seriously, they should.  some polls do,
                    most do not.  i take them more seriously when they share so
                    i can do that ugly thing known as 'thinking for myself'.
              \_ LA Times is considered to be a solid poll, but then again so
                 is Gallup and it was wildly inaccurate in 2000 (Bush up
                 something like 8 points in popular right before the election).
                 I think the fudge factor involved in the term "likely voters"
                 is pretty large.
                 \_ considered solid by whom?  what is their previous track
                    record at predicting elections and by how much?
                    \_ Argh, I had a link of some statisticians discussing
                       which polls were considered to have solid methodology
                       and which were not, but I seem to have misplaced it.
                       As I recall the "good" ones included Gallup, LA Times,
                       Quinnipac University, ABC/WaPo, FOX/Opinion Dynamics,
                       and Time.  They were suspicious of guys like Zogby and
                       Rasmussen Reports, and highly critical of SurveyUSA
                       and other "automated" or "Internet" polling companies.
                       They also thought that we were suffering from poll
                       overdose, but that's another topic.
        \_ So what does this mean?  Bush didn't win the popular vote in 2000
           anyways.
           \_ Note discussion above.
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

You may also be interested in these entries...
2012/12/5-18 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:54548 Activity:nil
12/5    Romney is right after all -- our military does need more horses and
        bayonets!  http://www.csua.org/u/y3j  Romney for 2012!
        \_ I'd never considered Romney's campaign as an ad for Revolution,
           but I guess that makes as much sense anything else.
        \_ The tax cut removal is ill timed.
        \_ holy crap. This is scary. US troops are most vulnerable as it is
	...
2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
        \_ Yes, and it was written about Jerry Brown. I was thinking this
           as I cast my vote for Meg Whitman. I am independent, but I
           typically vote Democrat (e.g., I voted for Boxer). However, I
           can't believe we elected this retread.
           \_ You voted for the billionaire that ran HP into the ground
	...
2010/9/17-30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:53960 Activity:low
9/17    "Report: Los Angeles spent $70 million in stimulus funds to create
        7.76 jobs"
        Yes, that's seven-point-seven-six jobs.
        http://www.csua.org/u/rmu (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ It is Obama's fault?
           \_ Then:  The Buck Stops Here
	...
2010/7/12-8/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:53882 Activity:low
7/12    "Debt commission leaders paint gloomy picture"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_governors_debt_commission
        "... everything needs to be considered . including curtailing popular
        tax breaks, such as the home mortgage deduction, ..."
        Housing market is going to crash again?
        \_ Doubt it, not with NSFW marketing tactics like this:
	...
2010/3/29-4/14 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:53763 Activity:nil
3/29    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100329/us_time/08599197588300
        "Arabs, who would seem to have an even stronger race claim than
        Hispanics do, are trumpeting their own write-in campaign because the
        Census by default counts them as white ... Ironically, part of the
        problem is that Arab immigrants a century ago petitioned the Federal
        Government to be categorized as white to avoid discrimination."
	...
2009/8/12-9/1 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:53268 Activity:moderate
8/12    Thanks for destroying the world's finest public University!
        http://tinyurl.com/kr92ob (The Economist)
        \_ Why not raise tuition? At private universities, students generate
           revenue. Students should not be seen as an expense. UC has
           been a tremendous bargain for most of its existence. It's time
           to raise tuition to match the perceived quality of the
	...
2009/5/13-20 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:52994 Activity:high
5/13    THE DEMOCRAT SOCIALIST PARTY!  Oh man, this is awesome.
        \_ The GOP is Godwining itself. It is an amazing thing to watch.
        \_ GOP is Godwining itself. It is an amazing thing to watch.
           \_ What's actually hilarious is that you believe this is some new
              kind of phenomenon that has never happened before.
                \_ Like when?  Say in the last 60 years?
	...
2009/4/16-20 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52855 Activity:nil
4/16    The Obama couple had an AGI of $2.6M in 2008 and $4.2M in 2007!
        http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/92476/?fp=1
        How much did the Dubyas and the Clintons make?
        \_ Obama wrote two bestselling books right around that time.
           \_ But Obama wasn't that famous before the presidental election
              campaign in 2008.
	...
2009/2/11-16 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52556 Activity:low
2/10    http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda
        End the Practice of Writing Legislation Behind Closed Doors: As
        president, Barack Obama will restore the American people's trust in
        their government by making government more open and transparent. Obama
        will work to reform congressional rules to require all legislative
        sessions, including committee mark-ups and conference committees, to be
	...
Cache (8192 bytes)
www.latimes.com/news/custom/timespoll/la-na-poll26aug26,1,891368.story?coll=la-home-headlines
By Ronald Brownstein, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON -- President Bush heads into next week's Republican National Convention with voters moving slightly in his direction since July amid signs that Sen. John F Kerry has been nicked by attacks on his service in Vietnam, a Times poll has found. For the first time this year in a Times survey, Bush led Kerry in the presidential race, drawing 49% among registered voters, compared with 46% for the Democrat. In a Times poll just before the Democratic convention last month, Kerry held a 2-percentage-point advantage over Bush. FOR THE RECORD: Presidential campaign poll --A headline that accompanied an Aug. The poll found that no more than 49% of registered voters surveyed favored the Republican ticket. That small shift from July was within the poll's margin of error. But it fit with other findings in the Times poll showing the electorate edging toward Bush over the past month on a broad range of measures, from support for his handling of Iraq to confidence in his leadership and honesty. Although a solid majority of Americans say they believe Kerry served honorably in Vietnam, the poll showed that the attacks on the senator from a group of Vietnam veterans criticizing his performance in combat and his antiwar protests at home have left some marks: Kerry suffered small but consistent erosion compared with July on questions relating to his Vietnam experience, his honesty and his fitness to serve as commander in chief. The Times Poll, supervised by polling director Susan Pinkus, interviewed 1,597 adults, including 1,352 registered voters nationwide, from Saturday through Tuesday. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. With independent voters splitting evenly in the survey between the two men, one key to Bush's tentative new advantage was his greater success at consolidating his base. While 3% of voters who called themselves Republicans said they would vote for Kerry, Bush drew 15% of all Democrats, and 20% of Democrats who consider themselves moderate or conservative, the poll found. Bush's advantage remained 3 percentage points when independent candidate Ralph Nader was added to the mix. In a three-way race, Bush drew 47%, compared with 44% for Kerry and 3% for Nader, whose access to the ballot in many key states remains uncertain. For all the promising signs for Bush, the poll found the president still threatened by a current of uneasiness about the nation's direction. In the survey, a slight majority of voters said they believed the country was on the wrong track. A majority also said the country was not better off because of his policies and needed to set a new course. And 45% said they believed his policies had hurt rather than helped the economy. Those results suggested that a substantial part of the electorate remained open to change. But amid the firefight over Kerry's Vietnam service and uncertainty about his policy plans, the Democrat still has not built a constituency for his candidacy as large as the audience for change in general, the poll suggested. Nearly 1 in 5 voters who say the country needs to change policy direction is not supporting Kerry, according to the poll. Sundberg voted for Bush in 2000, but now feels "we got ourselves in a mess in Iraq," where her son has been serving. She is dubious about Kerry, saying that "he's so back-and-forth about things." But while leaning toward Bush now, she can envision switching to Kerry by November. "Maybe just for a change, he should be elected," she said. Swift Boat Divide The country divides mostly along predictable partisan lines on the exchanges between Kerry and the group that has attacked his Vietnam record over the past month, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. But by several measures, the struggle appears to be drawing some blood from Kerry. The Swift boat group, which has received funding from several of Bush's supporters and advice from some veteran Republican operatives, has made only relatively small purchases of television time in a few battleground states for its two ads, the first charging that Kerry did not deserve some of the five medals he won in Vietnam and the second criticizing his antiwar testimony before the Senate in 1971. But with the controversy attracting intense media attention, especially on talk radio and cable television, the ads have achieved extraordinary visibility among voters. Fully 48% of those polled said they had seen the ad accusing Kerry of lying to win his medals; Similarly, 44% said they had seen the ad criticizing Kerry's Senate testimony; At the same time, 18% of those surveyed said they "believe that Kerry misrepresented his war record and does not deserve his war medals," while 58% said Kerry "fought honorably and does deserve" the medals. As many Republicans said they believed Kerry was lying as believed he fought honorably. By nearly 10 to 1, Democrats said Kerry served honorably. Independents sided with Kerry in the dispute by more than 5 to 1 Among them was Monika Schiel, a retiree in Gardena, Calif. "You have all the people that were on Kerry's boat--not somewhere downstream or upstream--confirming what he said," said Schiel. When voters were asked whether Kerry's protest against the war when he returned from Vietnam would influence their vote, 20% said it made them more likely to support him, while 26% said it reduced the chance they would back him, and 52% said it made no difference. But if Kerry showed relatively few bruises on these questions directly measuring reactions to the veterans' charges against him, indirect measures suggested he had suffered more damage. Asked how Kerry's overall military experience would affect their vote, 23% said it made them more likely to vote for him, while 21% said it made them less likely; That has to be a disappointment for the Kerry camp after a Democratic convention last month that placed Kerry's Vietnam service at the top of the marquee. Two other key questions produced even more troubling results for Kerry. In the July Times poll, 53% of voters said Kerry had demonstrated in his Vietnam combat missions the "qualities America needs in a president," while 32% said that by "protesting the war in Vietnam, John Kerry demonstrated a judgment and belief that is inappropriate in a president." In the August survey, that balance nudged away from Kerry, with 48% saying he had demonstrated the right qualities and 37% saying he had exhibited poor judgment. Likewise, the share of voters saying they lacked confidence in Kerry as a potential commander in chief edged up from 39% in July to 43% now; the percentage that said they were confident in him slipped from 57% to 55%. Both changes were within the poll's margin of error, yet both tracked with the poll's general pattern of slight Kerry slippage. Similar trends were evident on voters' assessments of the two men's personal qualities. Compared with July, Bush slightly widened his advantage over Kerry when voters were asked which was a strong leader and which had the honesty and integrity to serve as president. Following the poll's general trend, the percentage of voters who said they viewed Kerry favorably slipped from 58% in July to 53% in August, while the percentage who viewed him unfavorably ticked up from 36% to 41%. Bush's ratings were virtually unchanged from last month in this poll, with 53% viewing him favorably and 46% unfavorably. After a Democratic convention that focused much more on Kerry's biography than his agenda, 58% said they knew even a fair amount about the policies he would pursue as president; nearly 4 in 10 said they knew not much or nothing at all. By comparison, although Bush has put forward few specifics about his second-term priorities, 70% said they had a good idea of the policies he would pursue. Bush Holding His Own Compared with the trend of modest erosion for Kerry in the poll, Bush either slightly gained ground or stabilized his position on several measures. Bush's overall approval rating, which many analysts consider the best single gauge of his prospects in November, stood at 52%, with 47% disapproving; Bush's approval rating on the economy, at 46...